What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => The Idea Bank => Topic started by: AeroplaneDriver on February 20, 2019, 08:02:55 am

Title: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on February 20, 2019, 08:02:55 am
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-21.html (https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-21.html)
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AS.12 on February 20, 2019, 08:17:55 am
No-one in LM's marketing division could do a quick Web search for F-21?  Or even just on Wikipedia? :banghead:
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: chrisonord on February 20, 2019, 09:58:14 am
Erm, am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: scooter on February 20, 2019, 10:24:25 am
Its...an F-16.  Ain't nothing new about it, except one of the CFTs has a retractable probe.


And the real F-21 was the Kfir
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/DN-ST-85-08601.jpg)

No-one in LM's marketing division could do a quick Web search for F-21?  Or even just on Wikipedia? :banghead:

Of course not.  They're all MBAs and marketing types, not aviation enthusiasts.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AS.12 on February 20, 2019, 10:34:27 am
On a tangent, I remember reading in AvWeek that the F-21 aggressor program was an excellent example of contracted support; IAI hired a lot of experienced ex-USN personnel for its US-based support subsidiary, right down to the flightline staff.  And the pilots loved flying them as Mig-23 analogs.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: chrisonord on February 20, 2019, 10:39:45 am
Its...an F-16.  Ain't nothing new about it, except one of the CFTs has a retractable probe.


And the real F-21 was the Kfir
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/DN-ST-85-08601.jpg)

No-one in LM's marketing division could do a quick Web search for F-21?  Or even just on Wikipedia? :banghead:

Of course not.  They're all MBAs and marketing types, not aviation enthusiasts.
My thoughts exactly Scooter.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: kitnut617 on February 20, 2019, 11:33:31 am
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-f16v-rechristened-f-21-for-new-delhi-455954/
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: JayBee on February 20, 2019, 11:42:02 am
But they do have a precedent. Boeing renamed the DC-9 series as the Boring 717.
I do not see any of them with four underwing engines and re-fueling equipment.
(The Boeing 717 was Boeing's model number for what became the C-135 series of aircraft.)  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on February 20, 2019, 12:33:50 pm
It looks like the cockpit is upgraded a good bit from the F-16.  They are trying to sell it as comparable capabilities to the F-22/35.  On interesting political aspect may be LM's promise to move F-16 production to India if they order it...by renaming the  Block 70 as the F-21 do they get around that I wonder?
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 20, 2019, 02:21:02 pm
But they do have a precedent. Boeing renamed the DC-9 series as the Boring 717.
I do not see any of them with four underwing engines and re-fueling equipment.
(The Boeing 717 was Boeing's model number for what became the C-135 series of aircraft.)  :rolleyes:

717-200 actually, with the original renumbered 717-100.  :wacko:

Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 20, 2019, 02:38:00 pm
The F-21A Kfirs were leased aircraft and were returned after being used
for a few years, I wouldn't be surprised if the designation was primarily
for bookkeeping purposes.

Anyhow, designations have been cancelled and reused in the past, and at the
moment L-M can call it anything they want, if they apply to make it an official
designation it'll be up to the DoD to say yeah or nay.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: kerick on February 20, 2019, 03:54:58 pm
It might be for political reasons in India. Politicians and corporate bigwigs can say its an Indian aircraft. “In India, for India” as the article says.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: Captain Canada on February 20, 2019, 06:59:43 pm
That's too funny
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on February 20, 2019, 09:32:18 pm
According to the FAA the 818 is srill the DC-9-90 I believe.  I was halfway through training at AirTran on the MD-95 in 2000 when a better offer appeared.  Had I finished I think my Type Rating would have been DC-9-90. 
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: McColm on February 20, 2019, 11:37:32 pm
It's not April Fool's day for ages :banghead:
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: AS.12 on February 21, 2019, 12:03:16 am
The F-21A Kfirs were leased aircraft and were returned after being used
for a few years, I wouldn't be surprised if the designation was primarily
for bookkeeping purposes.


The fact that the Kfirs were leased was irrelevant, F-21A was an official MDS issued by the DoD, it was't just a number made up on the flightline for filling-in forms.  It was official enough to knock the first ATF designation along to YF-22!

It wouldn't have taken more than ten minutes to choose a better 'new name' for the F-16.  Even F-25 would have sufficed, since that's what the X-35 was supposed to become...

I might have pardoned LM had this been the early 1990s, but in this era of instant-information there is really no excuse for being so sloppy and lazy.  I'm glad that the Flight article called them out on the reuse.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: zenrat on February 21, 2019, 02:52:41 am
I don't see the problem.  It's only a number.  Names get reused all the time.
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: NARSES2 on February 21, 2019, 06:39:42 am

Anyhow, designations have been cancelled and reused in the past, and at the
moment L-M can call it anything they want, if they apply to make it an official
designation it'll be up to the DoD to say yeah or nay.

My thoughts as well. Calling it F.21 probably makes it sound more modern and "sexy" to their ears and that is what marketing types are all about, when not doing "retro" of course  :angel:
Title: Re: Introducing the Lockheed Martin F-21...
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 21, 2019, 12:17:46 pm
The F-21A Kfirs were leased aircraft and were returned after being used
for a few years, I wouldn't be surprised if the designation was primarily
for bookkeeping purposes.


The fact that the Kfirs were leased was irrelevant, F-21A was an official MDS issued by the DoD, it was't just a number made up on the flightline for filling-in forms.  It was official enough to knock the first ATF designation along to YF-22!

It wouldn't have taken more than ten minutes to choose a better 'new name' for the F-16.  Even F-25 would have sufficed, since that's what the X-35 was supposed to become...

I might have pardoned LM had this been the early 1990s, but in this era of instant-information there is really no excuse for being so sloppy and lazy.  I'm glad that the Flight article called them out on the reuse.

O brother, none of it is written in stone nor is it holy writ. :rolleyes:

Again it's not a flipping official designation, at the moment, and L-M
can market it under any damned name they choose.

The Flight article didn't call them out, it simply mentioned
the reuse without taking a position one way or other.