What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Cold War G.B. 2018 => Topic started by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 02:09:33 am

Title: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 02:09:33 am
As well as my two main ideas for this GB I've got a 'banker' in hand, just in case the others don't work.

This is the B-2S, the 'S' standing for 'Simple', the US Government having decided that the ultra-stealth construction of the original B-2 was expensive (like $2 BILLION per airframe!  :o) and contracted a simpler version of similar shape, but more conventional construction, and as such it might be saleable to other (approved...) nations.

The start point is a venerable Testors B-2 that's been in my loft since the real aircraft was rolled out back in the 80s.

There's a LOT of dark grey plastic in the box, but it's pretty simple to build (I think.........)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8651/Ky7UlD.jpg)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 03:14:07 am

......but it's pretty simple to build (I think.........)


Erm, who wrote that?  :banghead:

It fits where it touches and the outer wings connect to the centre 'fuselage' with an amazing arrangement of tabs and shelves that don't seem to fit, at all.....

It comes with the 'ruddervators' moulded in the split, air-brake position, but I don't like that too much so I've sawn them off and I'll glue them together fully retracted.

Oh yes, the three parts crew seats are RUBBISH and don't fit at all so they've been replaced with some white metal ones I had for a Buccaneer.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 04:10:39 am
Well, it is quick to build, where it fits anyway.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/8853/0X1F4C.jpg)

One wing glued together with the split ruddervators cut out and glued back flat.


(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3785/ldoKrB.jpg)

Top half of the 'fuselage' with one exhaust glued in place, but the other one won't fit worth a light!
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Weaver on March 01, 2018, 06:13:06 am
So how are you going to extend the wings?  ;)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 06:16:27 am

So how are you going to extend the wings?  ;)


It's a Stealth Bomber, so you wouldn't be able to see the extensions even if I did lengthen the wings.   ;D

But now that you mention it................  ;)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: jalles on March 01, 2018, 07:02:57 am
Oooooh, alright stealth (which I love) and in my favorite scale  :thumbsup:  I can't wait to see how this one turns out.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: deathjester on March 01, 2018, 01:23:48 pm
Well, it is quick to build, where it fits anyway.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/8853/0X1F4C.jpg)

One wing glued together with the split ruddervators cut out and glued back flat.


(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3785/ldoKrB.jpg)

Top half of the 'fuselage' with one exhaust glued in place, but the other one won't fit worth a light!
I actually thought that second pic was of a short shot, until I realised it was MEANT to be like that!  :o
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 01:37:56 pm

I actually thought that second pic was of a short shot, until I realised it was MEANT to be like that!  :o


 ;D The whole kit looks a bit like that, some of the parts are REALLY strange shapes.

Just about to do more work on it now.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Snowtrooper on March 01, 2018, 02:35:29 pm
I actually thought that second pic was of a short shot, until I realised it was MEANT to be like that!  :o
;D The whole kit looks a bit like that, some of the parts are REALLY strange shapes.
Don't forget the multitude of raised panel lines - on a stealth plane! - that don't actually even exist on the real article, not even in the recessed form, as in 1:1 scale everything that's not supposed to open/close in-flight is either cast as a single piece or smoothly PSR'd together (since radar signals LOVE all sorts of nooks and crannies).
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 01, 2018, 04:06:07 pm

Don't forget the multitude of raised panel lines - on a stealth plane! - that don't actually even exist on the real article, not even in the recessed form, as in 1:1 scale everything that's not supposed to open/close in-flight is either cast as a single piece or smoothly PSR'd together (since radar signals LOVE all sorts of nooks and crannies).


Yes, they're all coming off early on in the plan.

Bizarrely the kit shows the main nosewheel door sliding backwards like a C-130, but extensive searching through pics on the net shows that it opens sideways to the right, and then only when the engines are off. All flight pics show it closed.

I've got both wings assembled now, all the wheels, and the bombs and rotary launcher. Plus that pesky starboard exhaust is sorted now too.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8726/yYsu7n.jpg)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Ed S on March 01, 2018, 04:40:00 pm
An interesting "Whiff in a box". I have one of these buried in my stash and am watching this build in case I ever get crazy and try to build mine.

Ed
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Weaver on March 01, 2018, 08:34:41 pm
There's another whiif-in-a-box feature: those 'bombs' are actually AGM-86 SRAM missiles, a weapon that was retired four years before the B-2 entered service... ;D
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 12:01:21 am

There's another whiif-in-a-box feature: those 'bombs' are actually AGM-86 SRAM missiles, a weapon that was retired four years before the B-2 entered service... ;D


That's why it's the 'Simple' version too, it's cheap as well, only $1.8 billion a pop.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: The Rat on March 02, 2018, 01:26:14 pm

......but it's pretty simple to build (I think.........)


Erm, who wrote that?  :banghead:

I would say someone who hasn't been reading the multitude of obscenity-laced reviews on-line ever since the first one was attempted!  ;D  It is said to perhaps be the worst fitting kit since the Mach 2 Farley Fruitbat. It's easier to find on-line reviews by searching for foul language instead of "testors b-2"
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 02:35:23 pm


Erm, who wrote that?  :banghead:
......but it's pretty simple to build (I think.........)


I would say someone who hasn't been reading the multitude of obscenity-laced reviews on-line ever since the first one was attempted!  ;D  It is said to perhaps be the worst fitting kit since the Mach 2 Farley Fruitbat. It's easier to find on-line reviews by searching for foul language instead of "testors b-2"


Hehehe, I'm finding that out.  ;D

Quite how the outer wings are supposed to fit the 'fuselage' I have no idea, but a couple of crow bars and a BIG hammer would seem to be needed at some stage. Plus a lot of filing before I attempt to actually fit them on.

Mind you, it's pretty darned impressive when it's even partially assembled, and I'm reminded that it has the same span as the B-35 that I built a year or so ago.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Gondor on March 02, 2018, 03:21:55 pm
The Testors B2 is one of those kits that you need to follow the instructions when fitting the wings and body together, been there and done that which is how I know  :banghead:

Gondor
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 03:27:18 pm
Indeed, but the instructions are pretty inscrutable in my Italeri imported version. It shows the cross section of the joint, but not exactly how to twist and turn it to get it to fit.

It's a while away yet as I've got the paint the cockpit first, even though you can't see much of it, and that may be tomorrow if it gets warm enough for the paint to dry............
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2018, 05:59:56 am
I tried a 'tape up' to see how the bits fitted and to check for any nose weight required.

The 'instructions' are non-existent, there's only the cross-section diagram of the joint, but actually doing what they show is mind bogglingly difficult. The port wing went on sort of OK, took maybe 2-3 mins, but the starboard one took over 15 mins of fiddling and heaving to get it into place. It's going to need a lot of precision filing when it comes to gluing it eventually.  :o

It's a big piece of plastic when it's all together, the 'spider' in the foreground is one of the props from my A-400M 'Snoopy Too'!

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/1271/Gh6IRV.jpg)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: kitnut617 on March 03, 2018, 06:15:26 am
The one I built was the Testors boxing of it. I don't remember having any of the problems some people have said they had when building it.

You need to plan ahead if you want to have it standing on it's wheels though, I used lead. I had got hold of some lead sheeting (which used to be used on roofs) and cut strips of it placing it along the front edge joint, as close to the joint as you can get it.  I have still got to put the decals on it though.  I've got another one in the stash which will get some aftermarket decals I have to do a later in-service type.  Somewhere I've read there's a detailed bomb bay and wheel bay resin set, can't find where I've read that at the moment ---

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/30b2900f-2d77-4de8-b387-a789b6260e53.jpg)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e8b08032-9b5d-4662-bf75-ef584943b942.jpg)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/403af709-480a-4e73-b08f-fe7d23401fa0.jpg)

It's got the same wing span as the XB-35 I have.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/bfdae9e3-d771-45c4-9658-2cd3b3a0a452.jpg)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2018, 06:23:05 am
Thanks for the tip Robert, I have some of that lead flashing for my model boat stuff, so I'll use some of that.  :thumbsup:

It certainly seems like a major tail sitter from what I can see so far.  :o
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: kitnut617 on March 03, 2018, 06:29:35 am
It would be a major tail-sitter Kit, but also it's an easy kit to balance out. There's not much that goes inside it so basically you could just use the bottom half to figure it out and all I did was stick some pins in where the main gear legs go as temporary pivot points and added weight until the nose stayed down. I did place the top half on just to make sure though.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 03, 2018, 02:59:28 pm
There's square yards of surface area on this thing. I've just been sanding off all the raised panel lines on the top and bottom halves of the 'fuselage' and it took me over 30 mins!  :o

I've PSR'd the exhausts and the intake bulges too, all this while waiting for the cockpit paints to dry off. With a bit of luck I'll be doing lots of gluing tomorrow.

And probably swearing as well..........
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 04, 2018, 01:52:16 am
After laboriously painting the cockpit (one of the hateful parts of modelling to my mind) of the B-2 I glued it and the coaming into the upper half od the 'fuselage'.

I don't know why I bothered really, you can see virtually NONE of it through the massive windscreen.  :banghead:

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9925/c23uGG.jpg)

Note the vast areas of PSR around the intakes and exhausts, they fit where they touch, which isn't often.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: zenrat on March 04, 2018, 02:37:44 am
Ah, but you know you did it Kit.  That's what counts.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 04, 2018, 03:34:37 am

Ah, but you know you did it Kit.  That's what counts.


Yeah, right...........  ;D

I found a couple of tyre weights exactly the right shape to fit behind the leading edge of the 'fuselage' and are heavy enough, so I've epoxied them in place. Now I've glued the top and bottom halves of the 'fuselage' together with LOTS of tape and clamps etc.

It occurs to me that it'd be easier to build the entire top and bottom of the model separately and then join them top to bottom. There'd be none of that hassle of getting the taps aligned etc.

I may cut out the ends of the tab sockets so I can just slide the wings into position, I can't see that it'd be any weaker when the glue's set.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: KiwiZac on March 04, 2018, 02:08:23 pm
I'm a B-2 fan since childhood so I'm very excited to see a whiffed one. Curious to learn more about the B-2S specific bits...
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Weaver on March 04, 2018, 02:10:42 pm
After laboriously painting the cockpit (one of the hateful parts of modelling to my mind)....

High five.....  :thumbsup::angry:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 04, 2018, 02:19:13 pm
Mostly the B-2S bits are the material it's built from, like aluminium and magnesium, because it's going to be painted in NMF rather than 'carbon black'.  ;D But there will be some radar resistant paint in some areas.

As H pointed out it already has the simpler weapons fit plus it may have an AAR refuelling probe as well as the socket for the Boeing Boom.

I'm coming to agree with those who've said this is a terrible kit. When the wings are on almost NOTHING fits, there are huge gaps all over the place, not helped by the fact that the bottom halves are quite a bit smaller than the upper halves and when they're sat in the recesses designed for them, they don't touch the sides so the glue doesn't work. I've had to superglue pretty well every joint on the model, so much so that I've run out of superglue now!

It'll need a lot of PSR on the gaps and all joint areas, and I've sanded the tops of the wings already, but there's a long way to go.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/2766/gmoI9V.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/6096/89QKOk.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3021/LnWsfr.jpg)

Two of the problem joint areas, LOTS of PSR going to needed here.

The port wing nicely exhibits the wash-out that's characteristic of flying wing designs, but sadly the starboard side doesn't, and I had to crack some of the joints, bend it to shape, or near, and re-glue it. It's not too bad now, but could have been better.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 05, 2018, 03:03:50 pm
I'm not sure I've ever used so much putty on a model before, maybe on the 777-900, but that's the only likely one. EVERY single glue joint on this B-2's needed puttying, madness.

It's going to take a LOT of sanding for sure.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4255/DGIpt3.jpg)
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: jalles on March 05, 2018, 03:59:49 pm
I've always wanted one of these kits but now I'm thinking maybe I should be thankful I've never picked one up.  :unsure:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 05, 2018, 08:29:04 pm

I've always wanted one of these kits but now I'm thinking maybe I should be thankful I've never picked one up.  :unsure:


That's good thinking, it's a right bear of a thing to put together.  :banghead:

But it looks impressive, size-wise anyway.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: NARSES2 on March 06, 2018, 01:01:24 am
I've always wanted one of these kits but now I'm thinking maybe I should be thankful I've never picked one up.  :unsure:

I've built the small scale one (1/144 or 1/200 ?) and it's still quite big in that scale. It's on here somewhere and is a nice build
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: zenrat on March 06, 2018, 02:19:25 am
I don't like either the F117 or the B2.  They have always looked to me like models built by someone using lego who only had a vague idea of what an aeroplane looked like.

You are a brave stubborn resolute bloody minded foolish determined man taking this on Kit.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: kitnut617 on March 06, 2018, 04:41:41 am

I've always wanted one of these kits but now I'm thinking maybe I should be thankful I've never picked one up.  :unsure:


That's good thinking, it's a right bear of a thing to put together.  :banghead:

But it looks impressive, size-wise anyway.

There is always the ModelCollect kit you can buy -----
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Weaver on March 06, 2018, 05:06:51 am
I've got two of the Revell 'Advanced Technology Bomber' kits (curvy B-2, basically): they have the same construction and, according to the internet, many of the same issues. The interesting thing is how flat they are compared to the actual B-2.

If I build one (or both!) of mine, we should conspire to take them all to Telford Kit: on the one hand, OGL might have a fit, but on the other hand, if we're suitably 'creative' with our mounting/display stands, we could double our table space! :wacko:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Captain Canada on March 06, 2018, 06:07:22 am
I'd mod it up so most of the gear doors are closed when the wheels are down. Just looks better  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 07, 2018, 08:01:06 am

I'd mod it up so most of the gear doors are closed when the wheels are down. Just looks better  :thumbsup:


Not easy, the 4 wheel bogies are right on the centre line of the humunguous doors and any closed part of the door would very small indeed.

All I'm doing now is sanding, sanding and MORE sanding.  :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Old Wombat on March 07, 2018, 08:05:22 am
All I'm doing now is sanding, sanding and MORE sanding.  :banghead: :banghead:

Aah, the joys of modelling! ;D
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: rickshaw on March 07, 2018, 07:23:33 pm
All I'm doing now is sanding, sanding and MORE sanding.  :banghead: :banghead:

Aah, the joys of modelling! ;D

Good for the lower arm/wrist strength.  Excellent exercise.   Make sure you don't get RSI though!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: zenrat on March 08, 2018, 01:36:26 am
And wear a mask or wet sand.  Or do both just to be safe.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 08, 2018, 03:56:30 am

And wear a mask or wet sand.  Or do both just to be safe.


I am, and my face has the marks to prove it after y'day.  :banghead:

I'm going to do one of the others for a bit, this is driving me NUTS!
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: sandiego89 on March 09, 2018, 06:27:04 pm

I'd mod it up so most of the gear doors are closed when the wheels are down. Just looks better  :thumbsup:


Not easy, the 4 wheel bogies are right on the centre line of the humunguous doors and any closed part of the door would very small indeed.

All I'm doing now is sanding, sanding and MORE sanding.  :banghead: :banghead:

I believe the massive main gear doors actually provide some stability on the real B-2.  Without a real vertical stabilizer it needs all the help it can get, especially when slow. 
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 10, 2018, 03:04:41 am

I believe the massive main gear doors actually provide some stability on the real B-2.  Without a real vertical stabilizer it needs all the help it can get, especially when slow.


That makes some sense, yes. 
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: Weaver on March 10, 2018, 05:29:43 am

I'd mod it up so most of the gear doors are closed when the wheels are down. Just looks better  :thumbsup:


Not easy, the 4 wheel bogies are right on the centre line of the humunguous doors and any closed part of the door would very small indeed.

All I'm doing now is sanding, sanding and MORE sanding.  :banghead: :banghead:

I believe the massive main gear doors actually provide some stability on the real B-2.  Without a real vertical stabilizer it needs all the help it can get, especially when slow.

Yep - it's yaw control normally comes from split 'drag rudders' near the wingtips that point the nose by opening asymetrically. The problem is that, with no fixed fin to provide passive stability, they have to do this automatically all the time under the control of the flight control system, and since they create more drag than a conventional rudder, this can result in the loss of a few knots if they have to make a sudden and powerful deflection. Now that isn't much of a problem when you're at cruising altitude and speed, but when you're taking off or coming in to land a) it's more likely to happen because the aircraft doesn't have the same kinetic energy to resist gusts and b) it might well cause a problem because you're already at near stalling speed. The big gear doors therefore provide 'temporary finnage' to reduce the likelihood of needing the drag rudders during landing and take off.
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 09, 2018, 01:17:32 pm
The B-2S foundered at the PSR stage, and it's still there.  :banghead:

SO much to do getting rid of the raised panel line detail and filling zillions of sink marks and other 'concavities' I'm not sure if I'm still minded to carry on with it, but we'll see as my life slowly returns to normal, whatever that is.....  ;D
Title: Re: Northrop-Grumman B-2S
Post by: sandiego89 on June 09, 2018, 06:44:59 pm
Glad to see you “back on the horse” Kit. They will get done. All the best, Dave