What if

GROUP BUILDS => The Cold War G.B. 2018 => Topic started by: NARSES2 on February 01, 2018, 05:05:15 am

Title: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on February 01, 2018, 05:05:15 am
The place to post any illustrations or photos that you think others may find inspirational

Chris
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 01, 2018, 07:49:23 pm
Here you go comrades.  When I think Cold War aircraft I think spy planes.
(http://kits.kitreview.com/images/sh72015reviewgp_box.jpg)
(http://www.britishskytours.com/images/CANB%20PR%209.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--KaVhCkgl--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1856cz3yp0bkqjpg.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7NoUUUUy--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1856cym79lwcujpg.jpg)
(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Maks2005/Highlights/GeophysicaBanking2oClock.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wlpgiplp--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18571bnfrs14qjpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 01, 2018, 09:29:29 pm

(http://www.britishskytours.com/images/CANB%20PR%209.jpg)


Magic, that's 'my' Canberra, XH131.  :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 02, 2018, 01:35:41 am
Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:

(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/8/0/6/1087806-20195-12-pristine.jpg)

(https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/2/2/9/1101229-20195-66-pristine.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Qr7m6SL.jpg)

(http://www.fabulousrocketeers.com/images/RB45BigBoy.jpg)

(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/spy/rb45/rb45-c2.jpg)

You could put the kit in some other air force's markings (France? Taiwan?) or you could build something similar using WWII bomber parts and early jet engines. I've always thought the B-26 Marauder would be a good basis for an early jet, since it's quite 'modern' looking for WWII.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 02, 2018, 02:21:09 am

Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:


I've got one of those H, and believe me, you DON'T want one! The canopy, a majorly visible part of the aircraft, is diabolical!   :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 02, 2018, 02:33:20 am
...You could put the kit in some other air force's markings (France? Taiwan?) or you could build something similar using WWII bomber parts and early jet engines. I've always thought the B-26 Marauder would be a good basis for an early jet, since it's quite 'modern' looking for WWII...

Marauder or Intruder with Canberra or B57 wings  :thumbsup:

I still have a B57 fuselage and a pair of Mosquito wings in the parts box...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 02, 2018, 03:14:41 am
...You could put the kit in some other air force's markings (France? Taiwan?) or you could build something similar using WWII bomber parts and early jet engines. I've always thought the B-26 Marauder would be a good basis for an early jet, since it's quite 'modern' looking for WWII...

Marauder or Intruder with Canberra or B57 wings  :thumbsup:

I still have a B57 fuselage and a pair of Mosquito wings in the parts box...

Marauder with IL-28 engine nacelles and dihedral tailplanes was what I was thinking...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 02, 2018, 04:07:02 am
I have a pair of Il-28 nacelles in the parts box as well...

...but they are going on a Rotodyne.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Mossie on February 02, 2018, 06:21:27 am
I didn't know that anyone did a 1/24 Il-28. :wacko:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on February 02, 2018, 07:12:24 am
Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:


Yes all their kit prices are a bit steep  :o and the fit can be very interesting if not intriguing at times. They do some nice stuff though in terms of the types I tend to want, but I tend to walk away and say "do I really want that type/model" and quite often find I don't really  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 02, 2018, 10:16:31 am
Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:


Yes all their kit prices are a bit steep  :o and the fit can be very interesting if not intriguing at times. They do some nice stuff though in terms of the types I tend to want, but I tend to walk away and say "do I really want that type/model" and quite often find I don't really  ;)


I do wish Mach 2 would do something about their transparencies, it's not that they're not clear enough (they aren't....) it's more that the windows are so rough. My B-45's canopy looks as if it's been pebble-dashed, and I've got the Falcon vacform to replace it.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: McColm on February 02, 2018, 11:31:36 am
I had an idea to put Canberra wings on a
 B-17.
I have to agree with Kit about the glazing in Mach2 models. Although the Sud Caravelle does come with two canopies. I'm thinking of putting the engines from the A-10C on it and a camera pack carried in the lower fuselage.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 02, 2018, 02:02:18 pm
Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:


Yes all their kit prices are a bit steep  :o and the fit can be very interesting if not intriguing at times. They do some nice stuff though in terms of the types I tend to want, but I tend to walk away and say "do I really want that type/model" and quite often find I don't really  ;)


I do wish Mach 2 would do something about their transparencies, it's not that they're not clear enough (they aren't....) it's more that the windows are so rough. My B-45's canopy looks as if it's been pebble-dashed, and I've got the Falcon vacform to replace it.

Point of order: the kit I was tempted by and which I posted box art from was by Valom, not Mach 2....
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 02, 2018, 02:52:58 pm
Was tempted by one of these at the weekend until I saw the price:


Yes all their kit prices are a bit steep  :o and the fit can be very interesting if not intriguing at times. They do some nice stuff though in terms of the types I tend to want, but I tend to walk away and say "do I really want that type/model" and quite often find I don't really  ;)


I do wish Mach 2 would do something about their transparencies, it's not that they're not clear enough (they aren't....) it's more that the windows are so rough. My B-45's canopy looks as if it's been pebble-dashed, and I've got the Falcon vacform to replace it.

Point of order: the kit I was tempted by and which I posted box art from was by Valom, not Mach 2....


Ah, OK.

The Valom one can't help but be better than the Mach2 offering, but as you say, it's bound to be pricey!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 02, 2018, 10:55:15 pm
The one Valom kit I have built (Lockheed XFV Salmon) was terrible.

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 02, 2018, 11:09:22 pm

The one Valom kit I have built (Lockheed XFV Salmon) was terrible.


Oh dear, I have one of them............  :o
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 02, 2018, 11:48:42 pm
The one Valom kit I have built (Lockheed XFV Salmon) was terrible.
I've had their Airacuda part built for ages, craptastic in various ways with horrible
moulded on exhaust system slugs the worst issue, lumping great raised
excrescences.

Their early B-26 fuselage is off in numerous ways.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 02, 2018, 11:58:46 pm

The one Valom kit I have built (Lockheed XFV Salmon) was terrible.


Oh dear, I have one of them............  :o

Nothing you won't be able to overcome Kit.  However, if you can build the contra props using only the kit parts so that they are concentric AND rotate then I will eat your hat.   ;D

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 03, 2018, 12:01:43 am
I've always thought the B-26 Marauder would be a good basis for an early jet, since it's quite 'modern' looking for WWII.

(http://photos.smugmug.com/OLDPB/i-DdBjwN4/0/72e2f014/O/B26_ATAR_01.jpg)

 ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 03, 2018, 12:04:54 am
Take a B-26 and a Lansen kit and leave them in a warm, dark room for a while.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on February 03, 2018, 03:11:32 am
The one Valom kit I have built (Lockheed XFV Salmon) was terrible.
I've had their Airacuda part built for ages, craptastic in various ways with horrible
moulded on exhaust system slugs the worst issue, lumping great raised
excrescences.


Absolutely agree Jon and it is an aircraft I so much want a model of  :banghead:

To be fair some of their more recent stuff is a bit better quality wise, but prices are still  :o. Mind you there in may lie my next SIG Mag Editorial ?  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 03, 2018, 04:01:24 am
I've just got a copy of the 'RAF's Secret Jets of Cold War Britain', BAGS of scope in there!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 03, 2018, 11:07:44 pm
Going through the Secret Jets bookazine has had me up and down The Loft ladder like a yo-yo.  ;D

I keep on thinking 'Hm, I'm sure I've got a xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx stashed away somewhere' with which to build one of the amazing aircraft in there.

I quite like the various Canberra Fighters' that are mentioned and I have a handy Airiix B(I)8 to hand as well.

The Fairey Delta III is OK, but is beaten into a cocked hat by the HUMUNGUOUS Saunders Roe P.187. I just LOVE the P.187 but I have no idea how to build one as it's so huge, the real thing was almost 85 ft long!!!  :o

I suppose I could Scale-o-Rama a 1/72 scale SR53 to 1/144, but it needs to be done in the one True Scale really.

More browsing is required.........  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 02:39:05 am

I quite like the various Canberra Fighters' that are mentioned and I have a handy Airiix B(I)8 to hand as well.


Yeah I've got a couple of the Freightdog conversions squirrelled away, as well as an Airfix B(I).8 and a PR.9. The idea (at the moment) is to use them for early and late versions, the Red Dean version being used as a temporary expedient to cover a delay in the production of higher-performance all-weather fighters.

Early version: B(I).8 base aircraft, radar, guns and 2" rocket pods on the wingtips, later updated to Firestreaks plus tip-tanks.

Late version: PR.9 base aircraft, radar, no guns (or guns in the wings, B-57 style?), rocket pack and Red Deans.


Quote
The Fairey Delta III is OK, but is beaten into a cocked hat by the HUMUNGUOUS Saunders Roe P.187. I just LOVE the P.187 but I have no idea how to build one as it's so huge, the real thing was almost 85 ft long!!!  :o

I suppose I could Scale-o-Rama a 1/72 scale SR53 to 1/144, but it needs to be done in the one True Scale really.

More browsing is required.........  ;)

Purely off the top of my head with no fact-checking, how about the centre fuselage of a 1/48th F-89 Scorpion? It's about the right size and gives you the flank-mounted engine configuration. Similarly, a 1/48th F-16 might provide the wings.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 04:05:36 am

Purely off the top of my head with no fact-checking, how about the centre fuselage of a 1/48th F-89 Scorpion? It's about the right size and gives you the flank-mounted engine configuration. Similarly, a 1/48th F-16 might provide the wings.


1/48?  :o

I'd need to take a Valium before even THINKING about getting a 1/48 kit. Anyway, I can't actually see models that are larger scale than 1/71th.

On Canberra things, where does one get Red Deans from? They look like 1/48 (!) Firestreaks in the book.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 04, 2018, 04:14:56 am

Purely off the top of my head with no fact-checking, how about the centre fuselage of a 1/48th F-89 Scorpion? It's about the right size and gives you the flank-mounted engine configuration. Similarly, a 1/48th F-16 might provide the wings.


1/48?  :o

I'd need to take a Valium before even THINKING about getting a 1/48 kit. Anyway, I can't actually see models that are larger scale than 1/71th.

On Canberra things, where does one get Red Deans from? They look like 1/48 (!) Firestreaks in the book.

Freightdog - they did the P.12 Canberra fighter with two Red Deans.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 04:32:16 am

Purely off the top of my head with no fact-checking, how about the centre fuselage of a 1/48th F-89 Scorpion? It's about the right size and gives you the flank-mounted engine configuration. Similarly, a 1/48th F-16 might provide the wings.


1/48?  :o

I'd need to take a Valium before even THINKING about getting a 1/48 kit. Anyway, I can't actually see models that are larger scale than 1/71th.

On Canberra things, where does one get Red Deans from? They look like 1/48 (!) Firestreaks in the book.

Freightdog - they did the P.12 Canberra fighter with two Red Deans.


Ah, I might have guessed.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for the tip, I hope Colin still has some.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 04:36:29 am

Purely off the top of my head with no fact-checking, how about the centre fuselage of a 1/48th F-89 Scorpion? It's about the right size and gives you the flank-mounted engine configuration. Similarly, a 1/48th F-16 might provide the wings.


1/48?  :o

I'd need to take a Valium before even THINKING about getting a 1/48 kit. Anyway, I can't actually see models that are larger scale than 1/71th.

On Canberra things, where does one get Red Deans from? They look like 1/48 (!) Firestreaks in the book.

Freightdog - they did the P.12 Canberra fighter with two Red Deans.

It's actually back in stock at the moment too: https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/military-products/military-aircraft-conversions/1-72-scale/freightdog-models/freightdog-1-72-ee-canberra-p-12-all-weather-fighter-project-conversion.html

Mind you, a P.187 would need Red Hebes rather than Red Deans, and they're so different that you might as well scratchbuild them anyway...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 04:42:42 am
Just ordered the P.12 conversion.  :thumbsup:

Yes, the Red Hebe is positively HUGE!  Goodness knows what they were on when they thought it up, something pretty darn strong for sure.

I may invent my own missile type for one of these projects, Puce Hydrangea perhaps?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 04:50:09 am
Just ordered the P.12 conversion.  :thumbsup:

Yes, the Red Hebe is positively HUGE!  Goodness knows what they were on when they thought it up, something pretty darn strong for sure.

I may invent my own missile type for one of these projects, Puce Hydrangea perhaps?

It's basically an air-to-air Exocet... :o

Since Red Herring's been done to death, you could always give it a nuclear warhead (seriously considered for Red Hebe) and call it White Elephant. Other suggestions might be Blue Nun (obviously what they were drinking at the time) or Yellow Snow... :wacko:

My F-89 hunch is about right:

F-89 fuselage length: 16.4 metres
P.187 fuselage length: 21.2 metres
1/48th F-89 scaleorama'd to 1/72nd: 24.6 metres

Bearing in mind that you'd want to prune quite a bit off the Scorpion's tail boom, that definitely in the ball park. Now the next things you need are two Art-Model MiG Ye-8s or Trumpy F-107s to nick the intakes from... (and you thought Thorvic the EKFG was expensively helpful... :wacko:)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 05:02:15 am
You could probably use a 1/72nd Scorpion as the basis of a 1/72nd DH.117 (17.4m long) but you might need a 1/32nd Starfighter to nick the wings from...

EDIT: a 1/72nd F-18E/F is right on the money for wingspan and shape. It's got a dogtooth that the DH.117 lacks, but you could always work that into the back story as a later modification.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 10:18:05 am
I've got a couple of Scorpions already, one was destined to swap wings with a Javelin at some stage, but the Javelin looked better than the Scorpion after the swap.

Hm, yes, one of the Scorpion kits is an H, the one with the HUGE wingtip pods stuffed with retractable Falcons...............  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 12:39:20 pm
Just had a look and I've got three Scorpions:

Revell F-89D/J (part-started)
Academy F-89J
Minicraft F-89C

The one thing I havn't got is an -H... :-\

I got the Revell one with the intention of swapping the pods and/or missiles onto a CF-100. However another thought's just occurred to me: Vietnam close air support conversion. With the Scorpion replaced in the interceptor role, the surplus airframes are converted to bolster numbers in 'Nam by Frankensteining various bits in storage together with some new-build parts. The result is as follows:

F-89J airframe with extra wing reinforcement and six pylons.
Rear cockpit equipment removed and an extra fuel tank fitted in it's place.
F-89D tip pods.
F-89C nose fitted with a simple ranging radar and a refuelling receptacle.

The resultant aircraft has (typically) 6 x cluster bombs, 104 x FFAR rockets, 6 x 20mm cannon and loads of fuel. Now that's going to re-arrange somebody's plans for the day... :wacko:

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 01:15:12 pm

The resultant aircraft has (typically) 6 x cluster bombs, 104 x FFAR rockets, 6 x 20mm cannon and loads of fuel. Now that's going to re-arrange somebody's plans for the day... :wacko:


Yes indeed, but does it have longer wings?  ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 01:46:43 pm

The resultant aircraft has (typically) 6 x cluster bombs, 104 x FFAR rockets, 6 x 20mm cannon and loads of fuel. Now that's going to re-arrange somebody's plans for the day... :wacko:


Yes indeed, but does it have longer wings?  ;D

I was actually toying with the idea of giving it shorter wings to reduce the stress on them... :wacko:

Not sure it'd be worth it though: the Scorpion had a pretty complicated combined aileron/flap/airbrake arrangement, so cutting a few feet off it and then getting it to work again would be a non-trivial exercise.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 04:11:44 pm
I taped up the bits of the F-89H's wing-tip missile pods to see how they look.

They're HUGE!  :o

They're actually larger diameter and longer than a Canberra's engines! Northrop must have been using 1/48 scale drawings when they built the F-89...............
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 04, 2018, 09:04:25 pm
I taped up the bits of the F-89H's wing-tip missile pods to see how they look.

They're HUGE!  :o

They're actually larger diameter and longer than a Canberra's engines! Northrop must have been using 1/48 scale drawings when they built the F-89...............

Bear in mind that those two pods hold as many Falcons as an F-102's weapons bay, three-and-a-half times as many FFARs, AND a load of fuel.... :o
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 04, 2018, 09:30:41 pm
We are having endless discussions about aircraft.  How about the weapons instead?

What nuclear free-fall bombs did the RAF have operational in 1965?  Are there any models of them?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 10:09:38 pm
I taped up the bits of the F-89H's wing-tip missile pods to see how they look.

They're HUGE!  :o

They're actually larger diameter and longer than a Canberra's engines! Northrop must have been using 1/48 scale drawings when they built the F-89...............

Bear in mind that those two pods hold as many Falcons as an F-102's weapons bay, three-and-a-half times as many FFARs, AND a load of fuel.... :o


I did note  that, and I'm amazed the remarkably thing wings remained attached! The Scorpion is truly a massive aircraft.


We are having endless discussions about aircraft.  How about the weapons instead?

What nuclear free-fall bombs did the RAF have operational in 1965?  Are there any models of them?


The Red Beard tactical weapon was carried by V bombers, Canberras, Buccaneers and Scimitars for most of the 60s. The thermonuclear weapon of choice at the time was the Red Snow, a UK built copy of the US Mk 28 bomb, and that was carried in the flat nosed Yellow Snow casing.

All this derived from an umpteen page Wiki search, which was anything but straightforward.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 04, 2018, 10:20:25 pm
They didn't stay attached until redesigned.  :wacko:

The F-89C made its first flight in September, 1951, and the first operational F-89C squadron was the 176th Fighter
Interceptor Squadron at Truax AFB, Madison, Wisconsin, which received its first Scorpion on February 8, 1952.

* On February 25, an F-89C shed a wing and disintegrated in flight. After investigators determined that the aircraft had
broken up due to overstressing by the pilot, speed and g-load limits were imposed.
* On June 18, just three days after the F-89C became operational with the 74th FIS at Presque Isle AFB, Maine, the wing
of one of the squadron's new Scorpions cracked and folded in flight, killing the pilot and radar observer.

* On August 30, two F-89Cs of the 27th FIS were flying in an aerial display at the International Aviation Exhibition near
Detroit. During a high-speed pass over the field, the left wing of one aircraft snapped off at the root. The fighter spun
to destruction, killing both crewmen and spewing debris into the crowd, injuring five spectators.

* Despite even stricter speed and g-limits, another F-89C was lost to a wing failure on September 15th.

* On September 22, still another F-89C of the 74th FIS experienced an in-flight structural failure when its crew heard a
loud bang and saw one of their wings fold up over their cockpit. Fortunately, both men managed to exit the plane and
lived to tell the story.

The Air Force grounded all F-89s where they were. Air Defense Command was so enraged at the latest problems with
the jinxed aircraft that it ordered Northrop to move the F-89s to modification centers using company test pilots and at
company expense.
In November, Northrop began an intensive analysis and redesign effort on the F-89C's wing, a process which ultimately
would cost taxpayers $17 million and take nine months to complete.

Northrop's engineers soon identified the problems that had combined to cripple the F-89C. The first issue was structural.
In order to provide adequate strength for the aircraft's large, thin wing, while at the same time obtaining the lightest
possible structure, they had used a promising new aluminum alloy, T75ST, in the highly-loaded fittings where the wing's
root was bolted to the fuselage. T75ST had promised high strength with low weight. A drawback, however, was that the
fatigue characteristics of the new alloy under extreme conditions were not fully understood. Northrop lacked facilities for
testing structural specimens of the Scorpion's airframe to their full design limits, and it was decided that structural
simulations of the airplane's wing could be tested to 60 percent of their limit loads and the remaining portion of the
stress envelope could be extrapolated mathematically. What the designers did not realize, however, was that several
factors inherent in the operation of high-speed jets had combined to make this a foolish choice.

In studying their wind tunnel data and the accident reports, Northrop's aerodynamicists realized that at high speeds and
under high loads, the thin, springlike wing of the Scorpion could begin an extremely rapid twisting or fluttering motion --
a motion that would interact with the airflow over the wing in such a way that the flutter would actually increase -- a
"diverging aeroelastic oscillation," in technical terms. This phenomenon could develop so quickly that it was hardly
possible for a pilot to detect it and correct for it. Exacerbating this aerodynamic-structural interaction was another problem
-- the new hydraulically-powered control system needed to steer the aircraft at high speeds had little "feel," or feedback,
as did the sensitive cable-driven controls of earlier fighters. A pilot could unwittingly fly his plane into this deadly
oscillation region with little warning.

The final piece of the puzzle was the T75 alloy in the machined wing root fittings. The new alloy turned out to have
unexpectedly high "notch sensitivity," meaning that any manufacturing imperfections, scratches, or dents could
become origins for fast-spreading fatigue cracks.

When the F-89C was placed in test rigs capable of duplicating the full loads experienced by actual aircraft in service,
Northrop's structural engineers were horrified to find that the wing root attachment fittings began failing
catastrophically. Combined with aeroelastic stress, these structural issues made the F-89C a very dangerous airplane.
Northrop engineers immediately redesigned the wing root, reenforced the wing structure, and replaced the T75 fittings
with massively stronger forged steel units. Each F-89 in Air Force service was returned to Northrop for a complete
rebuild on a new assembly line.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 04, 2018, 10:35:42 pm
I'm amazed an advanced company like Northrop didn't have a full load fatigue test system in place at that time!

Having said that, it was the early days of the aviation fatigue world when they were working on the Scorpion and perhaps the need for full load testing hadn't become fully apparent by then. Much of my life has been around such test rigs so they're 'normal' to me, but back then they wouldn't have been so common.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 04, 2018, 10:44:11 pm
Yep, it was a period of hard lessons for the aerospace industry.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 05, 2018, 12:45:23 am
OK, Red Beard.  Available from Belcher Bits (with a load of other instant sunshine) or individually from Shapeways.  Prices are approximately the same.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Snowtrooper on February 05, 2018, 01:56:01 am
Italeri B-58 comes with four B43 "shapes", and according to Wikipedia B43 was also supplied to RAF. (Though I remember reading from somewhere that they actually resemble the B28 more.)

That would leave you with three extra insta-sunshines and a B-58 to play with ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Mossie on February 05, 2018, 02:30:30 am
Red Beard also comes with Airfix TSR.2 and Yellow Sun comes with the Valiant.  The WE.177's in the Belcher bits pack came into service in the late sixties, just after your 1965 date so could be used if you've got some wiggle-room in your time period.

EDIT, Ignore the Yellow Sun, it's Blue Danube that comes with the Valiant.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 05, 2018, 03:02:57 am
Red Beard also comes with Airfix TSR.2...

Well that answers that question.  I was wondering what it was.
Would, oh lets say a Gladiator, be able to carry one?
 :angel:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 05, 2018, 04:19:26 am
Ah! Ha!  I just happen to have a TSR.2 on the bookshelf.  Yes, it does indeed contain a Red Beard.  My, how interesting.  I have a cunning plan...   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 05, 2018, 05:23:26 am
Freightdog

Colin has a Red Beard in his range, complete with a Buccaneer bomb bay door to carry it. Sadly it's OOP at the moment. Pity, because it's better than the one in the TSR.2 kit, which has two trench-like panel lines running around it. Both moldings need a hole drilling in their nose for the ram-air turbine intake.

He also has a new US Mk.7 : https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/military-products/military-aircraft-conversions/1-72-scale/freightdog-models/freightdog-1-72-mark-7-nuclear-bomb-for-us-1950s-types.html

He also does a Luft '46 'Small Uranium Bomb'. Obviously this is outside the Cold War timeframe as it stands, but in Whiff World, you might imagine some state inheriting the German research and/or reserchers: https://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/military-products/military-aircraft-conversions/1-72-scale/freightdog-models/freightdog-1-72-german-small-uranium-bomb-luft46.html


Sharkit

Regulus I : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/regulus/regulus.htm

Regulus II : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/regulus2/regulus2.htm

GAM Rascal : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/rascal/rascal.htm

Snark : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Snark/snark.htm

Skybolt : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/skybolt/skybolt.htm

Navaho : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/navaho/navaho.htm

Mace : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/mace/mace.htm

Buran (the cruise missile, not the space vehicle) : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Buran/Buran.htm

BOMARC : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/bomarc/bomarc.htm

Bell BOMI/ROBO space bomber : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Bomi/bomi.html

Davy Crocket (in 1/35th - go on: do a British Army one on a Landrover... :wacko:) : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Davy/davy.htm

Douglas Model 1186c : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/Davy/davy.htm





Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 05, 2018, 05:28:06 am
Belcher Bits (in Canada) has a 1/72nd scale British Nuclear Weapons set which includes:

Blue Danube
Yellow Sun
Red Beard
WE.177A (i.e. short)
WE.177B or -C (long)

http://www.belcherbits.com/ordertext.htm

This pretty much covers the range for British nuclear 'bomb shapes'.

The history's a bit confusing because 'bomb shapes' and 'physics packages' sometimes different code-names and could be combined in different ways. For instance:

Blude Danube had a Blue Danube bomb shape containing a Hurricane physics package
Violet Club had a Blue Danube bomb shape containing a Green Grass physics package (and a LOT of empty space)
Yellow Sun Mk.1 had a Yellow Sun bomb shape containing a Green Grass physics package
Yellow Sun Mk.II had a Yellow Sun bomb shape contained a Red Snow physics package (and a LOT of empty space) which was itself an adapted US Mk.28.

This site shows pics of the bomb shapes, but much of the info in it is wrong, at least according to the next site: http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Uk/UKArsenalDev.html

Brian Burnell's site has loads of info on UK nuclear weapons info: http://www.nuclear-weapons.info/o.htm
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Mossie on February 05, 2018, 05:51:18 am
Red Beard also comes with Airfix TSR.2...

Well that answers that question.  I was wondering what it was.
Would, oh lets say a Gladiator, be able to carry one?
 :angel:

Nah, but a Stringbag could carry anything.... :wacko:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2018, 06:04:48 am

Navaho : http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/navaho/navaho.htm


I have one of them!  ;D

It's an amazing looking beast, but it'd need a scratchbuilt launcher really.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 05, 2018, 06:15:43 am
Red Beard also comes with Airfix TSR.2...

Well that answers that question.  I was wondering what it was.
Would, oh lets say a Gladiator, be able to carry one?
 :angel:

Nah, but a Stringbag could carry anything.... :wacko:

Red Beard weight: 1750lb
18" Torpedo weight: about 15000-1600lb depending on the version

So yeah, A stringbag could probably carry a Red Beard. It could certainly carry a WE.177 (600lb - 900lb depending on the version)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2018, 06:43:25 am
Red Beard also comes with Airfix TSR.2...

Well that answers that question.  I was wondering what it was.
Would, oh lets say a Gladiator, be able to carry one?
 :angel:

Nah, but a Stringbag could carry anything.... :wacko:

Red Beard weight: 1750lb
18" Torpedo weight: about 15000-1600lb depending on the version

So yeah, A stringbag could probably carry a Red Beard. It could certainly carry a WE.177 (600lb - 900lb depending on the version)


And the opposition would be laughing so much at the incongruity they wouldn't even bother to shoot it down!  ;D

Mind you, quite the crew would get out of the way fast enough is open to question...........
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on February 05, 2018, 08:49:13 am
If the Westland Wasp could theoretically carry a WE.177 as a nuclear depth charge (very much a marginal situation) , perhaps a Stringbag with a strong following wind could too.....but they'd need to hoist a spnnaker to increase top speed to clear ground zero.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2018, 10:54:35 am

If the Westland Wasp could theoretically carry a WE.177 as a nuclear depth charge (very much a marginal situation) , perhaps a Stringbag with a strong following wind could too.....but they'd need to hoist a spnnaker to increase top speed to clear ground zero.


And row like crazy as well!  :o
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 05, 2018, 11:41:19 am
Who'll be the first to model that long forgotten experimental weapon the Chartreuse Merkin?
Or was the cover-up so successful that no info has ever emerged?
 ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2018, 01:47:15 pm

Who'll be the first to model that long forgotten experimental weapon the Chartreuse Merkin?
Or was the cover-up so successful that no info has ever emerged?
 ;D


Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....................
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rick Lowe on February 05, 2018, 07:03:35 pm
Who'll be the first to model that long forgotten experimental weapon the Chartreuse Merkin?
Or was the cover-up so successful that no info has ever emerged?
 ;D

There were no failures in that Programme, Citizen.

In fact, that Programme does not exist.

This is not the conversation you are looking for (with extra Handwavium).
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2018, 08:39:40 pm
It occurs to me that the RAF were talking about mounting a pair of Douglas Genies on the Lightning at around that time.

Now I also have a J model Scorpion and it includes two Genies in the kit........

I wonder how many AA missiles a B(I)8 Canberra could lift, especially if it had lengthened PR9 wings and larger engines? Hmmmmm......
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 06, 2018, 02:36:28 am

If the Westland Wasp could theoretically carry a WE.177 as a nuclear depth charge (very much a marginal situation) , perhaps a Stringbag with a strong following wind could too.....but they'd need to hoist a spnnaker to increase top speed to clear ground zero.


And row like crazy as well!  :o

What if the Stringbag's spinnaker was foil lined and acted like a solar sail, surfing* the nuclear flash to stay ahead of the shock wave?
Or something.

For this GB I might have to resurrect the Soviet ramjet powered nuclear tipped air launched cruise missile I started building for the last Cold War GB's Myasichev M7 Lebed.
It's partially built but that's OK, I know one of the moderators...  ;)

How about air launched Bloodhounds?  Make the wings long enough and you could sling six on a Canberra.  I had thought of doing this with a B36 (AKA the Flying Flakship) but the cost would be prohibitive unless I learn to mould.

*OK, not surfing but sailing.  But "surfing the nuclear flash"  sounds much gnarlier dude.

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 06, 2018, 03:09:16 am
It occurs to me that the RAF were talking about mounting a pair of Douglas Genies on the Lightning at around that time.

Now I also have a J model Scorpion and it includes two Genies in the kit........

Well to be picky, we were so short of fissile material that they were talking about mounting one Genie on each Lightning with a 2" rocket pod to balance it, before they had to give up on the idea completely. Freightdog and Odds'n'Ordnance have both done Genie/Lightning sets with the correct pylons.

This must be the only circumstance in which, if you somehow survived the detonation of a Genie and the interceptor came back for a second attempt, it wouldn't seem particularly scary to have a 2" rocket pod fired at you... ;)

Quote
I wonder how many AA missiles a B(I)8 Canberra could lift, especially if it had lengthened PR9 wings and larger engines? Hmmmmm......

Well, it's max bombload was 8000lb. I guesstimate the gun pack (which I presume you want?) at 2000lb max*, so that leaves 6000lb. A Firestreak weighed 300lb plus maybe 50lb (? - pure guess) of support pack per missile, so weight-wise, you could get 17 on there... :o

Space-wise might be more of an issue, of course, plus any that you mount in the bomb bay will have a lousy seeker view once extended if they're IR homers (not that that stopped plenty of such things from being schemed, mind you). Also, if you load it up to MTO, it's going to be a one pretty sluggish fighter until it's burned some fuel and/or fired some weapons.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't mount 8 x Firestreaks under the outer wings though. You could have six on pylon and two on the tips, but putting the latter under the tips as per the bomb pylons on Aussie Canberras, for example) seems more appropriate somehow. Also you could perhaps move the gun pack to the forward bomb bay and fit the Napier Double Scorpion rocket motor plus fuel in the rear: there's a molding for the rocket nozzles in the Freightdog P.12 conversion set.


* The weight of 4 x Mk.V Hispanos plus 500 rounds/gun in a 50/50 mix of HE/AP ammo (based on US ammo specs) comes to 1600lb, plus you have to allow for structure and support equipment.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 06, 2018, 04:26:25 am
The idea of very bad nuclear bombers has inspired me to recreate my Very Bad Ideas thread here:

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,44868.new.html#new
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 06, 2018, 08:52:13 am
Trash the gun pack, carry the Genies in the bomb bay (they don't need to 'see' the target, they can't 'see' anyway) attach cut down Scorpion wing tip pods stuffed with Firestreaks and load two Red Deans on the wing pylons.

A weapon for all seasons.....  ;)

Note the 'Larger engines' in the original post...........
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 06, 2018, 06:39:39 pm
If you're going to stuff Firestreaks in the wing tip pods you're going to have to stretch them, not cut them down:

DH Firestreak : Length = 10'6", Wingspan = 30"

Falcon (AIM-4) : Length = 6'6", Wingspan = 20"
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 06, 2018, 10:50:14 pm
Nononononono, I plan to delete the forward un-guided missiles and the extra fuel, a Canberra's got huge fuel capacity in the wings and fuselage anyway, and lengthen the missile bay in the tip 'tanks'.

That way there's enough room for the Firestreaks, with folding wings and fins of course........  ;)

And it works in the plastic, I did some test measurements without cutting or gluing anything.  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 08, 2018, 04:46:23 pm
A few others I'm thinking about, no way I'll build al of them, but maybe a couple might be possible in the time.

The B-64 Navaho, what an AWESOME device, and in NMF with full SAC markings it'd look amazing. But I'd need to scratchbuild the launch platform.  :banghead:

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3576/QAr5UQ.jpg)


The F-85 Goblin, about as small as you can get, but needs some radical Whiffing to work in this GB. I have a cunning plan, naturally..........  ;)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/5015/IfWQzq.jpg)


And the two seat Mirage F1B, to my mind the best looking version of the Mirage, maybe the best looking French fighter ever? I have a cunning plan for one of these too, as well as two of the kits.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/8346/4hsxgt.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 08, 2018, 06:57:21 pm
Would the Mirage F.1B be the Heller kit, Kit?  Watch out for the undercarriage.  It is a real bugger.   :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 08, 2018, 09:18:27 pm
Both of them are, yes.

Thanks for the warning, perhaps I should go for some white metal replacements?  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 08, 2018, 11:06:50 pm
Both of them are, yes.

Thanks for the warning, perhaps I should go for some white metal replacements?  :thumbsup:

I made mine from folded paper-clips.  Anything is easier than the Heller contraption!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 10, 2018, 07:08:00 am
I've ordered a Special Hobby Mirage F1B in their 50% sale (I didn't even know they made one!) which hopefully will sort out the landing gear problem.

I'm spending too much time in The Loft obviously as I keep on coming up with ideas. Here's a couple more :-

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3103/vuznQM.jpg)

This is a LOT of plastic but two ideas come to mind, SAC NMF finish complete with star spangled banner on the.......er, nose. Or maybe an RAF Northrop Norwich B1 in grey/green camo? What do you mean, 'stealth'.....?


(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3388/esQ5mh.jpg)

And I've had this for a million years, and it's about that long since I've built an armour kit too! Did the Royal Artillery ever have these on charge? And if not, what would they have called it and what colour scheme would it have used?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on February 10, 2018, 08:24:06 am
I don't think the Royal Artillery ever had this precise piece of kit, but it would have had a religious name if they did.  Perhaps the ARCHDEACON, PRIOR,RECTOR. PREBENDARY or even ARCHEMANDRITE?   They'd already used ABBOT, BISHOP, PRIEST and DEACON.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Mossie on February 10, 2018, 09:09:23 am
Bronze green in Europe, light stone in the trops.

By the seventies, NATO green/black for Europe, lightstone/NATO green for the trops.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 10, 2018, 09:36:16 am
Scope for Whiffing it then, thanks for the tips.  :thumbsup:

I know as much about armour as I do about brain surgery...........  :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 10, 2018, 11:24:54 am
The British Army didn't give names to the M-107, M-110 and M-109 in UK service, so they probably wouldn't have given one to that M-55 either.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 10, 2018, 12:21:42 pm

The British Army didn't give names to the M-107, M-110 and M-109 in UK service, so they probably wouldn't have given one to that M-55 either.


Does that stop me giving one a name in WhiffWorld though?  ;D ;)

It's a weird looking thing, as if the turret's about to fall clean off the back of the chassis!  :o
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 10, 2018, 05:57:56 pm
I remember getting one of those things as a soft plastic toy way back when I was a small lad.  I had it for  a couple of years.  I seem to remember it was sold as a "tank destroyer".

I have long been enamoured of the 105mm version of that vehicle, the M52:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/M52-howitzer.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 10, 2018, 06:37:31 pm

The British Army didn't give names to the M-107, M-110 and M-109 in UK service, so they probably wouldn't have given one to that M-55 either.


Does that stop me giving one a name in WhiffWorld though?  ;D ;)

It's a weird looking thing, as if the turret's about to fall clean off the back of the chassis!  :o

Even weirder, the driver's in the turret, on a swiveling seat with swiveling controls  :o.

The chassis uses M-47 tank components. Perhaps a British version would be based on a Centurion chassis, but good luck finding one of those in 1/32nd...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 10, 2018, 10:54:37 pm

The British Army didn't give names to the M-107, M-110 and M-109 in UK service, so they probably wouldn't have given one to that M-55 either.


Does that stop me giving one a name in WhiffWorld though?  ;D ;)

It's a weird looking thing, as if the turret's about to fall clean off the back of the chassis!  :o

Even weirder, the driver's in the turret, on a swiveling seat with swiveling controls  :o.

The chassis uses M-47 tank components. Perhaps a British version would be based on a Centurion chassis, but good luck finding one of those in 1/32nd...


Wouldn't 1/35 be close enough for a Whiff?  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Dizzyfugu on February 11, 2018, 06:59:56 am
Does anyone know which A-bomb comes with the 1:72 Italeri NATO weapon set?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on February 11, 2018, 08:10:08 am
It's a B61 bomb
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Dizzyfugu on February 13, 2018, 08:15:15 am
Ah, thank you! Interesting that this Sixties design is still in use today!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 26, 2018, 03:43:33 am
This is what "Cold War" means to me.
(https://www.f-106deltadart.com/piwigo/_data/i/upload/2015/04/07/20150407021746-ea31c4b8-me.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ik3Os5h1eTY/Th5xsd5G6AI/AAAAAAAAGco/b2QF8MvuWGQ/s640/tanks-red-square-006.jpg)
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/no-dong-c-image01.jpg)
(http://thestoryofliberty.intuitwebsites.com/ggg.jpg)
(http://www.ssbn601.com/images/last_polaris_launch.jpg)
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/05/21/15/ed-barber2.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/BGM-109G_Gryphon_-_ID_DF-ST-84-09185.JPEG/800px-BGM-109G_Gryphon_-_ID_DF-ST-84-09185.JPEG)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/aravm98/Current%20Modeling%20Projects/xp705tw74.jpg)
(https://militarymachine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/maxresdefault-1-2.jpg)
(http://www.maquetland.com/v2/images_articles/mig-15.jpg)
(https://www.scienceabc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Nuclear-War-Explosion-in-city-Razvan-Ionut-Dragomirescu.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 26, 2018, 03:46:51 am
Last picture is of a "Hot War", not a "Cold War"...   :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 26, 2018, 03:49:59 am
It is indeed.  That was what I was hoping we could avoid.
 ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 26, 2018, 04:04:55 am
Then, man, we need more of this:

(http://www.larryhayes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/antiwar_peace_rally03_618-600x288.jpg)

And less of this:

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/304/cpsprodpb/12A25/production/_95652367_nkorea15.jpg)

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--af_Uvy4j--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18wwkpg62fkdmjpg.jpg)

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lWCu4USV--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18wwld2kdishdjpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2018, 05:12:52 am
Fergies towing Calliopes? Whatever next!  :o
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on February 26, 2018, 05:29:47 am
Fergies towing Calliopes? Whatever next!  :o

Everybody focuses on the ICBMs.  They ignore just how ramshackle the rest of the DPRK's armed forces actually are, Kit.   :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on February 26, 2018, 12:14:17 pm


(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lWCu4USV--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18wwld2kdishdjpg.jpg)

The Female Revolutionary cohort demonstrate how difficult it is to march in a tight skirt......or else it's the Democratic Republic Ladies Formation Gymnastic Team  about to perform a mass splits manoeuvre.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 26, 2018, 02:36:47 pm
My #1 cunning plan (there are others....) having been OK'd by the mods  :thumbsup: ;D here's the components.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/6350/LXj5zF.jpg)

It's an Azur Vautour night fighter, minimally pre-assembled U-2 wings (now THERE'S a surprise....  ;D) and the F-4E(S) conversion kit from 12 squared, a veritable gem of all sorts of 'useful stuff'.

The back story has the IDF/AF. after testing out the HiAC G-139 camera pod deciding to give the LOROP camera a proper test at altitudes the standard F-4 cannot reach. Accordingly a time expired Vautour is shipped over to the USA where General Dynamics update it with the planned F-4X camera nose and wings from a handy high altitude aircraft factory that's 'just down the road'......  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 27, 2018, 12:34:47 am
Then, man, we need more of this:

(http://www.larryhayes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/antiwar_peace_rally03_618-600x288.jpg)

And less of this:

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--af_Uvy4j--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18wwkpg62fkdmjpg.jpg)

More of these then.
(https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5251/5426077233_b1dd975218_b.jpg)
(https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/153047/screenshots/1928471/hippie-usssr.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4bqgnUMNfSbtukDqWkdgaGlreGOlNt7VPNvB0JN56TN9U1Ce8)

I don't have a kombi in my stash but I do have something in 1/72 which I may have to peace up.  Psychedelic paintwork that small will be a challenge.  Maybe decals.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Ed S on February 27, 2018, 04:47:30 pm
Just for the record, my local club had a "Cold War" theme a few years ago. Here is my entry,

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/esveum/100_6289.jpg) (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/esveum/media/100_6289.jpg.html)

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/esveum/100_6288.jpg) (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/esveum/media/100_6288.jpg.html)

(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc250/esveum/100_6284.jpg) (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/esveum/media/100_6284.jpg.html)

Yes, that is a dozen snowmen having a snowball fight.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on February 27, 2018, 04:58:32 pm
Hah! Love it!  :wacko: :thumbsup:

You could do something similar by putting dolls house refrigerators on the tops of launching rockets....
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on February 28, 2018, 02:02:41 am
Cry havoc and let slip the army of SMEG...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on February 28, 2018, 02:04:56 am
Something posted by Greg over on Beyond the Sprues (GTX_Admin over there, GTX here before the Great Split);

https://youtu.be/QbC6dLG_dQY (https://youtu.be/QbC6dLG_dQY)

Sorta fits ... A bit ... ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on February 28, 2018, 06:16:33 am
Brilliant  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: nighthunter on March 01, 2018, 08:07:00 am
Cry havoc and let slip the army of SMEG...
Funny story, my Best Friend's nickname was/is(?) "Smeg", and a joke he loved to say was, "Release my Minions!" Especially after a few drinks, lol!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 02, 2018, 04:50:35 am
Here's a thought, based on the idea of a literally cold Cold War, but semi-serious: arctic combat vehicles. Flying over the Arctic is much the same as flying over the tropics (until you get shot down and find you've got the wrong survival pack), but fighting on the ground is a WHOLE different ball game. Here's a couple of scenarios:

1. The US finds out that the Soviets are planning to send commando teams into Alaska and/or Northern Canada to attack early-warning installations immediately prior to a nuclear attack. The Soviet approach to equipping these guys is probably to give them white overalls, extra rations, and a stern lecture about how unpatriotic and counter-revolutionary it is to whinge about the cold, however the Americans being the Americans, they decide that fighting these guys on the ground obviously needs LOTS and lots of fancy new hardware.

2. The Antarctic Treaty either breaks down or never happened, so Antarctica becomes a credible war zone. Perhaps the Soviets set up a naval base on the continent from which to send subs and spy-trawlers out to monitor French and British nuclear tests or interdict shipping around the Cape, or perhaps several nations decide to put their 'last redoubt' emergency command bunkers (i.e. somewhere for Air Force One to actually go) there and only discover the other guys after they've spent billions on the bases. Cue a race for land and borders that rapidly come to reflect the global Cold War in microcosm.


In either case, you could imagine countries building troop-carriers and 'tanks' that are a cross between snow-cats and conventional AFVs. They'd need very low ground pressure, so over-size tracks and limited armour, and they'd possibly try to eliminate the need to open hatches as much as possible, so they'd have truck-style driving positions and windowed commander's stations above the actual hatch, similar in appearance to the various Israeli 'lighthouse' modifications. You'd also need to be able to live inside them for extended periods, so they'd be larger than conventional AFVs, again with implications for armour weight.

For 'jeep' type tasks (liason, recce, light attack) aerosans would be an option, as would motorcycle-style snow-mobiles. :wacko:

Some of the sci-fi multiple track-unit vehicles might form appropriate inspiration: the iconic Tucker Sno-cat does, after all, follow that form itself.

Real-world example are few and far between. The Russian MTLB has a remarkably low ground pressure, partly to address these concerns, and that's why it's also favoured by Sweden. Apart from that, there's the inevitable Volvo Bv.206 et al 'Bandwagons', the Russian WWII aerosans and er, not much else really. NATO had extensive plans to fight in Norway, and Sweden and Finland had their self-defence needs of course, but all those theatres are 'conventional terrain with a lot of snow on it', rather than 'pure snow and nothing else'.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 05:31:59 am

For 'jeep' type tasks (liason, recce, light attack) aerosans would be an option, as would motorcycle-style snow-mobiles. :wacko:


And Track-Rovers..............  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on March 02, 2018, 07:50:02 am
Then of course there is always this beast to consider

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=111903 (http://theoldmotor.com/?p=111903)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Snow_Cruiser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Snow_Cruiser)

http://www.joeld.net/snowcruiser/snowcruiser.html (http://www.joeld.net/snowcruiser/snowcruiser.html)

Worth a moment or two of your time.


As to the Track Rover, that was the item that persuaded me that it was worth exploring Whiffworld in the first place!!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 08:25:24 am

As to the Track Rover, that was the item that persuaded me that it was worth exploring Whiffworld in the first place!!


One of the best Whiffs of all time, a veritable tour de force.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 02, 2018, 02:19:56 pm

As to the Track Rover, that was the item that persuaded me that it was worth exploring Whiffworld in the first place!!


One of the best Whiffs of all time, a veritable tour de force.  :thumbsup:

Why thank you gentlemen, you're too kind.

Sadly the cornflour 'snow' on the Trackrover diorama has yellowed badly to the point where it's unsightly to put on display. I do have it in mind to put it on a new base with proper modelling fake snow, but the problem is the snow on the actual vehicles. It's a thin layer, it's stuck on with PVA, and it's yellowed too. Simply covering it with more 'good' snow risks making the vehicles' shapes indistinguishable. I do want to fix this problem though, since it annoys me not being able to take it to shows.

Funnily enough, the cornflour snow started yellowing at the back of the telephone box, right where someone might be tempted to make yellow snow in real life... ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 02:30:41 pm

Funnily enough, the cornflour snow started yellowing at the back of the telephone box, right where someone might be tempted to make yellow snow in real life... ;D


Is that the red telephone box or the blue one?  ;) ;D :wacko:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 02, 2018, 02:34:02 pm

Funnily enough, the cornflour snow started yellowing at the back of the telephone box, right where someone might be tempted to make yellow snow in real life... ;D


Is that the red telephone box or the blue one?  ;) ;D :wacko:

Blue one?  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 02:40:40 pm

Funnily enough, the cornflour snow started yellowing at the back of the telephone box, right where someone might be tempted to make yellow snow in real life... ;D


Is that the red telephone box or the blue one?  ;) ;D :wacko:

Blue one?  ;)


[Pantomime mode on]

Oh yes there is!  ;D ;)

[Pantomime mode off]
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 02, 2018, 02:42:29 pm
The only blue police box I know of is the one where Rule 6 is kept.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 02, 2018, 02:53:42 pm

The only blue police box I know of is the one where Rule 6 is kept.


Exactly............  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 03, 2018, 01:28:38 am
Regarding the North Pole, don't forget the fighting beneath the ice...

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 03, 2018, 09:26:19 am
Regarding the North Pole, don't forget the fighting beneath the ice...

Indeed, however the problem with submarines is that most credible what ifs don't result in modelable differences to their exteriors. Spy subs are a different matter though, and very 'Cold War'. Diver lockout chambers are often fitted, and some subs have had things like 'landing legs' or minisub hangars added to them.

Go to this link for pics of the Halibut, including original artwork, and links to other spy subs. This is an awesome resource:
http://www.hisutton.com/Secret%20Sub%20-%20USS%20Halibut.html

Spy subs with legs and lockout chamber:
USS Seawolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Seawolf_(SSN-575)
USS Halibut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Halibut_%28SSGN-587%29
Operation Ivy Bells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells

Possible spy sub with midget subs:
India Class (Project 940): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-class_submarine
X-Ray class and carriers: http://www.hisutton.com/Spy%20Subs%20-%20X-RAY.html

Spy sub with wheels!:
NR-1: http://www.hisutton.com/NR-1.html

USS Parche, from H.I.Sutton's site linked above:
(http://www.hisutton.com/images/Parche_cutaway.jpg)



Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 03, 2018, 10:15:23 am
British subs have been seen with DDS (Dry Deck Shelters) behind their fin, but that's about it. Here's HMS Ambush (too late for the Cold War, but you might imagine similar devices on earlier classes):

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/79/f5/1d79f5192fb7bca95f613b5c8cc7a8a0.jpg)

However much of the point of covert ops mods is that they're below the waterline and invisible when the sub's on the surface anyway.

Prior to the Astutes, HMS Spartan was modified to carry a USN-pattern DDS, but she was decommissioned several years before the Astute came into service. It would therefore be a reasonable whiff to put one on a Trafalgar class as an interim measure, and I just so happen to have an Airfix Trafalgar in the stash. Hmmm...

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: sandiego89 on March 03, 2018, 11:58:29 am
Regarding the North Pole, don't forget the fighting beneath the ice...

All this talk of cold war and ice gives me an excuse to reload my Ice Station Delta pictures from the last Cold War GB- that were lost with the Photobucket extortion.

Scratch 1/350 USS Skate, TF-102 and F-102's on the ice.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/etj8Oo.jpg) 

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/0VgaUB.jpg) 

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/bEbaNf.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Snowtrooper on March 03, 2018, 02:41:31 pm
USS Parche, from H.I.Sutton's site linked above:
I was about to laugh at the implausibility of this, landing gear on a 100-metre long nuclear submarine*? Side thrusters**? Totally unhydrodynamic protrusions all over***? Full-scale extra sonar on top of the rear hull, even though it's rendered ineffective whenever the propeller is operating...****?

...and then I realized it's all real and not a whiff :blink:

*) Then I realized that due to buyoancy it won't have to support it's full weight and is useful if you're trying to stand still near the bottom in <300m deep water - does not even require the use of propeller
**) Useful for precise positioning eg. directly above an undersea cable
***) It probably won't be trying to reach record speeds and if it would have to hide from active sonars (which are rarely used except when wanting to scare an already detected sub/getting the final "fix" for firing solution) the mission has been compromised already
***) When it's standing still at the bottom the towed array cannot be deployed but the propeller is not interfering with a rear-facing sonar either. The spherical sonar at the front still can't see through the hull so this is needed for rearward "visibility", and putting the rear sonar on the top makes sense in this case as the potential attacker obviously cannot approach from below
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 03, 2018, 06:04:52 pm
USS Parche, from H.I.Sutton's site linked above:
I was about to laugh at the implausibility of this, landing gear on a 100-metre long nuclear submarine*? Side thrusters**? Totally unhydrodynamic protrusions all over***? Full-scale extra sonar on top of the rear hull, even though it's rendered ineffective whenever the propeller is operating...****?

...and then I realized it's all real and not a whiff :blink:

*) Then I realized that due to buyoancy it won't have to support it's full weight and is useful if you're trying to stand still near the bottom in <300m deep water - does not even require the use of propeller
**) Useful for precise positioning eg. directly above an undersea cable
***) It probably won't be trying to reach record speeds and if it would have to hide from active sonars (which are rarely used except when wanting to scare an already detected sub/getting the final "fix" for firing solution) the mission has been compromised already
***) When it's standing still at the bottom the towed array cannot be deployed but the propeller is not interfering with a rear-facing sonar either. The spherical sonar at the front still can't see through the hull so this is needed for rearward "visibility", and putting the rear sonar on the top makes sense in this case as the potential attacker obviously cannot approach from below


Yep, some of the 'incidents' involving these boats would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up if they weren't wet....

Seawolf had a horrible experience in the Sea of Okhotsk one time when a powerful storm came in whilst she was on the bottom. The boat was rocking on her 'skegs' (landing gear) and one of the divers nearly got trapped under one of them. Then it was discovered that the currents had washed sand over the skegs and the reactor cooling intakes had sucked it in, contaminating the system and threatening a shutdown. What's more, the skegs were stuck in the sand.

She was stuck on the bottom for two days while various remedies were tried. A violent maneuver to lift her off the seabed was out of the question if it risked her breaking the surface, because she would then almost certainly be detected and attacked. In the end, they had to cut the mushroom anchors to free her. As she came off the bottom, a cradle between the skegs that was intended to hold recovered missile parts partially broke free. As she left the area, they discovered that at anything over six knots the cradle banged against the hull, making an awful noise that would give their position away. Then they were detected by a Soviet surface ship, possibly an armed trawler, and she chased them for 24 hours, with the Seawolf unable to move at more than six knots or maneuver hard. In the end, the Soviet vessel just gave up and went away, for reasons that the sub crew couldn't fathom. It might just have been the whim of her captain.

When she got home and into dry dock, Seawolf looked like she'd been depth-charged, with dents all over her hull and damaged equipment hanging off...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on March 04, 2018, 01:21:45 am
I'm sorry but I can't read the name USS Halibut without it bring a smile to my face  ;D

Fascinating info' lads  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 09, 2018, 10:17:09 pm
Speaking of spy subs, look at Micro-Mir's range. I had no idea that they made so many!  :wub:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?product_category_id=0&product_division_id=0&scale_id=0&product_type_id=3080&manufacturer_id=362447&sort=0&search_direction=asc&search=&stock=0

There are too many there to list individually, including some that I've never heard of before! You can find details of them on H.I.Sutton's site. Unfortunately, his site doesn't have a search engine, so the best bet is to put the project number (Soviet designs) or boat name/SSN number (USN designs) into Google then scroll down until you find the hit for his page on it.


Hobby Boss do the USS Jimmy Carter, which is modified for special ops: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HB87004

They also do the USS Greeneville, a Los Angeles class SSN modified to carry to cancelled ASDS mini-sub: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HB87016

Trumpeter do a 1/72nd Chinese mini-sub (could be passed off as anybody's since it's pretty generic): https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/TU07303

That's half the price of the Japanese mini-sub which Hasegawa make: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HASW03
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 10, 2018, 03:10:25 am

 Unfortunately, his site doesn't have a search engine, so the best bet is to put the project number (Soviet designs) or boat name/SSN number (USN designs) into Google then scroll down until you find the hit for his page on it.


Doesn't the 'Ctrl-F' trick work with it?  :-\
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 10, 2018, 05:06:08 am

 Unfortunately, his site doesn't have a search engine, so the best bet is to put the project number (Soviet designs) or boat name/SSN number (USN designs) into Google then scroll down until you find the hit for his page on it.


Doesn't the 'Ctrl-F' trick work with it?  :-\

No, because there isn't a single page with all the articles listed on it for the Ctrl+F to search through.

Thanks for mentioning it though: I'd never seen that function before!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 10, 2018, 07:01:32 am

 Unfortunately, his site doesn't have a search engine, so the best bet is to put the project number (Soviet designs) or boat name/SSN number (USN designs) into Google then scroll down until you find the hit for his page on it.


Doesn't the 'Ctrl-F' trick work with it?  :-\

No, because there isn't a single page with all the articles listed on it for the Ctrl+F to search through.

Thanks for mentioning it though: I'd never seen that function before!


It can be very handy, it goes waaaaaay back to MS-DOS v3.0 I think.  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on March 10, 2018, 10:48:15 pm
You can search a website with Google.  Just append as a suffix the URL and then the search terms.  Google will then discover all entries for it.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 16, 2018, 01:38:41 am
Had a thought today.
During the cold war the US broadcast propaganda to the Soviet Union - Radio Free Europe, Voice of America, BBC Radio Two* etc.
What if it had been done from aircraft?  A team of aerial bestrewn C97s perpetually holding station over the Baltic refuelled in flight by KC97s (until they ran out of engine oil).
They would of course be known as the Stratocasters...



I'll get me coat.



*There can have been no other explanation for Jimmy Young.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 16, 2018, 02:36:24 am

What if it had been done from aircraft?  A team of aerial bestrewn C97s perpetually holding station over the Baltic refuelled in flight by KC97s (until they ran out of engine oil).
They would of course be known as the Stratocasters...


Hehehe, nice one.  :thumbsup:

The USAF did that for real at one stage too. There was a bunch of specially equipped C-130s flown by an ANG unit that really were airborne radio stations. They had massive 'tanks' outboard of the Herk's usual tanks, and some very weird blade shaped aerials out toward the wing tips.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/1717/4XEcl7.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 16, 2018, 03:07:05 am
The tail of that Herc looks like that of a Rutland Reindeer.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on March 16, 2018, 09:38:25 am
The tail of that Herc looks like that of a Rutland Reindeer.

Indeed it does   https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0UnD7G0%2b&id=137FCF620BE13D0CD2A6568578DD10367915A882&thid=OIP.0UnD7G0-eC0V0cACsy64zQHaFi&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fairminded.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2015%2f07%2frutland-reindeer-2.jpg&exph=437&expw=584&q=rutland+reindeer&simid=608019328019400920&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=rutland+reindeer&ajaxhist=0  (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0UnD7G0%2b&id=137FCF620BE13D0CD2A6568578DD10367915A882&thid=OIP.0UnD7G0-eC0V0cACsy64zQHaFi&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fairminded.org%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2015%2f07%2frutland-reindeer-2.jpg&exph=437&expw=584&q=rutland+reindeer&simid=608019328019400920&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=rutland+reindeer&ajaxhist=0)

Neville Shute Norway would be proud of it!

When you are stuck in traffic on the way to the next Farnborough air show, here's a way to pass the time. Spot the place where veteran British actor Jack Hawkins stopped to offer a lift to American movie star James Stewart in the 1951 film No Highway in the Sky. For nephews and nieces none the wiser, the film was based on No Highway, a 1948 book by Nevil Shute which dealt with the virtually unknown phenomenon of fatigue failure in a large transport aircraft - the fictional Rutland Reindeer. Stewart played an eccentric Farnborough-based boffin who sees the whole thing coming. Sadly for British aviation the film turned out to be an eerie prophecy of the real events to come with the Comet disasters of the 1950s.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 16, 2018, 10:16:08 am

What if it had been done from aircraft?  A team of aerial bestrewn C97s perpetually holding station over the Baltic refuelled in flight by KC97s (until they ran out of engine oil).
They would of course be known as the Stratocasters...


Hehehe, nice one.  :thumbsup:

The USAF did that for real at one stage too. There was a bunch of specially equipped C-130s flown by an ANG unit that really were airborne radio stations. They had massive 'tanks' outboard of the Herk's usual tanks, and some very weird blade shaped aerials out toward the wing tips.

EC-130J Commando Solo, formerly known as Volant Solo and using EC-130Es. They can broadcast TV as well as FM radio. Article here: http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104535/ec-130j-commando-solo/

Funnily enough Zenrat, you almost got it right: the program started back in the 1960s with EC-121Ds and was known then as Coronet Solo. Since a vanilla EC-121 was known as a Warning Star, presumably these would have been 'Radio Stars' (cue the Buggles)...... ;D

Jimmy Young isn't propaganda, he's psychological warfare, designed to cause the enemy to lose the will to live. If you broadcast him from a Coronet Solo plane you could revert back to it's civilian name and call it an EC-121 Consternation.

My coat's next to yours, ta...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 16, 2018, 01:16:38 pm

Neville Shute Norway would be proud of it!

When you are stuck in traffic on the way to the next Farnborough air show, here's a way to pass the time. Spot the place where veteran British actor Jack Hawkins stopped to offer a lift to American movie star James Stewart in the 1951 film No Highway in the Sky. For nephews and nieces none the wiser, the film was based on No Highway, a 1948 book by Nevil Shute which dealt with the virtually unknown phenomenon of fatigue failure in a large transport aircraft - the fictional Rutland Reindeer. Stewart played an eccentric Farnborough-based boffin who sees the whole thing coming. Sadly for British aviation the film turned out to be an eerie prophecy of the real events to come with the Comet disasters of the 1950s.


Wasn't it only called that in the US? In UK it was still just 'No Highway'.

Back in the 80s I rented a copy of it and showed it at a fatigue conference at Warwick Uni, with an audience of very clever fatigue people from all over the world. It was amazing how many had never heard of it! I was appalled.  :banghead:

Loved the way James Stewart retracts the gear of the Reindeer when it was still on the ground somewhere in Canada when he realises that it'd reach the end of its fatigue life some time during the next flight!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rheged on March 16, 2018, 01:56:53 pm
The book was  "No Highway" . Never saw the film.

 Neville Shute was an interesting bloke:- R100 airship, Airspeed Ltd,  head of engineering at  the Directorate of Miscellaneous Weapon Development  (known as the Wheezers and Dodgers) where he developed the Rocket Spear, an anti-submarine missile with a fluted cast iron head.   And then there are his novels.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevil_Shute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevil_Shute)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 16, 2018, 02:19:02 pm

The book was  "No Highway" . Never saw the film.

Neville Shute was an interesting bloke:- <snip>  And then there are his novels.


I've got most of them, 'Round the Bend' is a real aviation tour de force. I find myself continuously trying to fit real aircraft into the plot where Shute has given them fictional names.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on March 16, 2018, 04:23:46 pm

The book was  "No Highway" . Never saw the film.

Neville Shute was an interesting bloke:- <snip>  And then there are his novels.


I've got most of them, 'Round the Bend' is a real aviation tour de force. I find myself continuously trying to fit real aircraft into the plot where Shute has given them fictional names.

In the Wet has an Avro Atlantic look-a-like
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 16, 2018, 08:29:29 pm
The last issue of Modelart Australia magazine has a feature on a scratchbuilt Rutland Reindeer.  I'll endeavour to scan some pages and post them up.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on March 17, 2018, 06:14:44 pm
Shute moved downunder in his later life, after WWII and lived near Melbourne IIRC.  It was why he set "On the Beach" there.   He was a very remarkable man and a great novelist.   "On the Beach" is one of the most depressing books I've ever read but you stick with it to the end because it's so well written.   Never seen the movie (again filmed in Melbourne.  It's leading lady, Ava Gardner, was supposed to have remarked that it was the perfect place to film an "end of the world movie..."  ;) ).
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 18, 2018, 04:16:03 am
The 'On the beach' movie was just as depressing as the book.

To get REALLY depressed, try 'Down to a Sunless Sea' though, only as a book I think. You'll feel like jumping off the world after that.  :-\
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: scooter on March 18, 2018, 04:29:23 am
The 'On the beach' movie was just as depressing as the book.

To get REALLY depressed, try 'Down to a Sunless Sea' though, only as a book I think. You'll feel like jumping off the world after that.  :-\

According to Wiki, a movie version is in production with Morgan Freeman as president.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 18, 2018, 04:41:37 am
The 'On the beach' movie was just as depressing as the book.

To get REALLY depressed, try 'Down to a Sunless Sea' though, only as a book I think. You'll feel like jumping off the world after that.  :-\

According to Wiki, a movie version is in production with Morgan Freeman as president.


Terrific, I can hardly wait...................NOT!
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: McColm on March 20, 2018, 02:35:43 am

What if it had been done from aircraft?  A team of aerial bestrewn C97s perpetually holding station over the Baltic refuelled in flight by KC97s (until they ran out of engine oil).
They would of course be known as the Stratocasters...


Hehehe, nice one.  :thumbsup:

The USAF did that for real at one stage too. There was a bunch of specially equipped C-130s flown by an ANG unit that really were airborne radio stations. They had massive 'tanks' outboard of the Herk's usual tanks, and some very weird blade shaped aerials out toward the wing tips.

EC-130J Commando Solo, formerly known as Volant Solo and using EC-130Es. They can broadcast TV as well as FM radio. Article here: http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104535/ec-130j-commando-solo/

Funnily enough Zenrat, you almost got it right: the program started back in the 1960s with EC-121Ds and was known then as Coronet Solo. Since a vanilla EC-121 was known as a Warning Star, presumably these would have been 'Radio Stars' (cue the Buggles)...... ;D

Jimmy Young isn't propaganda, he's psychological warfare, designed to cause the enemy to lose the will to live. If you broadcast him from a Coronet Solo plane you could revert back to it's civilian name and call it an EC-121 Consternation.

My coat's next to yours, ta...
I always thought that they played Des O'Conner records for psychological warfare :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 20, 2018, 03:37:05 am
Isn't casting Morgan Freeman a bit old hat?
Surely the role should go to Alec Baldwin?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on March 20, 2018, 06:19:57 am
Isn't casting Morgan Freeman a bit old hat?
Surely the role should go to Alec Baldwin?

What about Keanu Reeves? :unsure:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on March 20, 2018, 09:17:43 am
The Wiki notation is from 2015, when a film was in development, nothing on it since.
No updates on Movie Insider since September 2015.
https://www.movieinsider.com/m13574/down-to-a-sunless-sea/updates

After reading the plot synopsis, and laughing out loud, all I can say is that
it would require massive rewrites to produce something not cringe-worthy.
 ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2018, 09:59:24 am
They seemed to have moved the plot by some 4-5000 miles, because the book takes place in an airliner (a hydrogen powered 747-800....) over the Atlantic en route from NYC to London. Instead it ends up in Antarctica, via Lajes in the Azores, in formation with an An-124......

Yeah, right.

But it's REALLY depressing, don't even think about reading it!  :banghead:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: rickshaw on March 20, 2018, 11:33:51 pm
Quick question, what colours were British nuclear weapons painted?  What markings did they carry?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 21, 2018, 01:06:09 am

Quick question, what colours were British nuclear weapons painted?  What markings did they carry?


The big one's a Yellow Sun, carried by the V bombers, and the little one's a WE.177, carried by almost everything else.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/817/CxA1oz.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3659/ej7wBX.jpg)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: kitnut617 on March 21, 2018, 02:29:40 am
Is that colour what they call 'Bronze Green' Kit.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 21, 2018, 03:00:10 am
From Brian Burnell's nuclear weapons info site here: http://www.nuclear-weapons.info/vw.htm#WE.177%20paint%20schemes

Quote
Paint Schemes

Several paint-schemes are known to have been used on WE.177. For live operational rounds of both Type A and Type B, an overall white with orange and yellow bands was used (early paint-scheme from the 1960s). The Royal Navy also used a similar scheme, although there may have been minor differences. When both Services adopted a NATO standard colour scheme in the 1970's an overall olive green was used, with the appropriate markings. Drill weapons, or training rounds used by the RAF for loading and flight drills were a dark Oxford blue. The Royal Navy used overall white with a variety of black markings, until both Services later adopted a NATO standard olive green for training rounds, possibly in the late 1970's. Most of the examples of WE.177 training rounds in museums use this olive green paint scheme. The entry-into-service of the Type C weapon was much later than the others, and there is no hard evidence that this weapon used the earlier paint schemes of overall white and overall blue.

(http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177a-5-percent-paint.PNG)
(http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177b-5-percent-paint.PNG)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 21, 2018, 03:02:39 am
Red Beard. I think that the greens used on all these are more like NATO Olive Green (as described in the B.Burnell article) rather than Bronze Green:

(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc2.staticflickr.com%2F4%2F3108%2F2627936623_a317de10a1_z.jpg%3Fzz%3D1&f=1)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 21, 2018, 03:33:59 am

Quote
Paint Schemes

Several paint-schemes are known to have been used on WE.177. For live operational rounds of both Type A and Type B, an overall white with orange and yellow bands was used (early paint-scheme from the 1960s). The Royal Navy also used a similar scheme, although there may have been minor differences. When both Services adopted a NATO standard colour scheme in the 1970's an overall olive green was used, with the appropriate markings. Drill weapons, or training rounds used by the RAF for loading and flight drills were a dark Oxford blue. The Royal Navy used overall white with a variety of black markings, until both Services later adopted a NATO standard olive green for training rounds, possibly in the late 1970's. Most of the examples of WE.177 training rounds in museums use this olive green paint scheme. The entry-into-service of the Type C weapon was much later than the others, and there is no hard evidence that this weapon used the earlier paint schemes of overall white and overall blue.

(http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177a-5-percent-paint.PNG)
(http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/we177b-5-percent-paint.PNG)

Interesting that they fitted the early operational rounds with ejector seats, quite a few of them even....  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Weaver on March 21, 2018, 06:07:28 am
If I was riding an atomic bomb, I think the thing I'd want most in the world is an ejection seat. Just think: if Major Kong had had one, he might still be with us today! ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 24, 2018, 03:01:49 am
The 'On the beach' movie was just as depressing as the book.

To get REALLY depressed, try 'Down to a Sunless Sea' though, only as a book I think. You'll feel like jumping off the world after that.  :-\

According to Wiki, a movie version is in production with Morgan Freeman as president.


Terrific, I can hardly wait...................NOT!

Oh, for Heaven's sake!
Can't they think of making something that's a bit more upbeat and positive?! :banghead: :banghead:
Surely there's enough of this sort of thing going on in real life, aren't movies supposed to be escapism, after all? :angry:

A very Tired and Grumpy Rick.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: scooter on March 24, 2018, 03:40:04 am
The 'On the beach' movie was just as depressing as the book.

To get REALLY depressed, try 'Down to a Sunless Sea' though, only as a book I think. You'll feel like jumping off the world after that.  :-\

According to Wiki, a movie version is in production with Morgan Freeman as president.


Terrific, I can hardly wait...................NOT!

Oh, for Heaven's sake!
Can't they think of making something that's a bit more upbeat and positive?! :banghead: :banghead:
Surely there's enough of this sort of thing going on in real life, aren't movies supposed to be escapism, after all? :angry:

A very Tired and Grumpy Rick.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on March 25, 2018, 01:55:01 am
Ready Player One premieres soon.  While it is set in the future it references cold war era geek culture.  Well, the book does.  I have a horrible feeling the film makers might have moved everything forwards in an attempt to attract a younger (than me) audience.
Hope not as I really enjoyed the book and it has a happy ending which should cheer up Rick.

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 30, 2018, 01:13:05 am
it has a happy ending which should cheer up Rick.

 :thumbsup:
Cheers, Fred - we can but hope!  ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: McColm on April 07, 2018, 04:06:52 am
What if the Air Ministry had chosen the Canadair CP-28 Argus instead of the Avro Shackleton in the maritime patrol role and had gone with Rolls-Royce Tyne engines instead of Wright R3350 ?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on April 08, 2018, 02:21:11 pm
Going through old pics on Photobucket I found a few old builds that fit the timeframe and theme...maybe this is a good place to post them...

(http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45069.0.html)

RN Sea Jaguar FRS.1

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/1452/ZNnRD5.jpg)

RAF Germany Scorpion FG.1

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/5088/zPPtmN.jpg)

RAF Hunter F.14

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2459/s00eyO.jpg)

And one of my favorite builds ever that unfortunately fell victim of a move...USAF F-13 Raven Satellite Killer
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: scooter on April 08, 2018, 04:23:23 pm
Going through old pics on Photobucket I found a few old builds that fit the timeframe and theme...maybe this is a good place to post them...

http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45069.0.html (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45069.0.html)

RN Sea Jaguar FRS.1


You meant it as a url and not a pic, right?
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on April 08, 2018, 05:46:59 pm
It was supposed to be a pic.  Not sure why it didn't load. 
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: scooter on April 09, 2018, 03:27:56 am
It was supposed to be a pic.  Not sure why it didn't load.

Tags and url.  It happens.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on May 26, 2018, 10:05:15 pm
DEADLINE EXTENDED BY ONE WEEK
In light of Weaver's recent family bereavement please direct any final questions, issues and requests for an extension (accompanied by the appropriate bribe) to me rather than to him.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on May 30, 2018, 04:46:36 am
Due to request received, deadline is hereby extended to local midnight Friday 07-06-18.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Old Wombat on May 30, 2018, 06:02:56 am
You need to fix your banner! ;)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on May 31, 2018, 04:36:11 am
Sorted.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on June 01, 2018, 07:57:45 am
Due to request received, deadline is hereby extended to local midnight Friday 07-06-18.

So June 7th or July 6th?  June 7th isn't a Friday, July 6 is.  A month seems like quite a long extension...
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on June 01, 2018, 09:42:54 pm
7th June obviously. 
But this got me wondering.  So let me quote from here. (https://www.news.com.au/technology/why-do-americans-put-the-date-the-wrong-way-around/news-story/2623ac4a756a5948df44c0233ea8b4a9)

We have all encountered the stupid way Americans write their dates, putting the months first. Now we answer the eternal question.
IT'S a question that's been bothering us since last Wednesday when the world witnessed 11/12/13, one of the few dates of our time with consecutive numbers.
The Yanks butchered it. To them, it was 12/11/13.
The United States is the only nation in the world which insists on dates laid out as mm-dd-yyyy, although it is used occasionally in some other countries, including Canada and the Philippines.
The historical reasons for the unusual date format are foggy -- but there are compelling explanations.
America inherited the months-first dates from the United Kingdom where it was occasionally used until the early 20th century, according to Reddit.
American colonists favoured the monthly format, while the British Empire drifted towards the European style of dd-mm-yyyy.
The American format did not cause as much confusion as the date was usually written out in full. So December 18, 2013, would be today.
But the digital era made it necessary for dates to be explained with numbers, such as 12/18/2013.
America stuck with mm-dd-yyyy while the rest of the world moved to a more logical format.
There is a third way, though: The US military, China, Japan and the Korean nations follow a different convention. The International Standardisation Organisation has set yyyy-mm-dd as the internationally accepted way to represent time and date.
It moves from the biggest unit of time (years) to the smallest (days). Perhaps even we could be more correct in how we arrange our dates.


Which doesn't actually clear things up does it.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: Knightflyer on June 01, 2018, 11:22:46 pm

There is a third way, though: The US military, China, Japan and the Korean nations follow a different convention. The International Standardisation Organisation has set yyyy-mm-dd as the internationally accepted way to represent time and date.
It moves from the biggest unit of time (years) to the smallest (days). Perhaps even we could be more correct in how we arrange our dates.[/i]

Which doesn't actually clear things up does it.

Slight thread drift. I must admit to using the above format yyyy-mm-dd or at least yy-mm-dd quite a lot. For work I have to save spreadsheet of test results once a week, and putting the date in this format in the title allows them to be sorted in date order .... whereas the company who supplies me the results tells me that 23/1/18 (23rd Jan)  23/2/18 (23rd Feb) and THEN  24/1/18 (24th Jan) are consecutive!  :banghead:

Mind you - would we then need to think about how we SAY the date, forgetting the year, is it June 2nd or 2nd (of) June (first 'American', second 'British'?)
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: scooter on June 02, 2018, 01:25:23 am
Let's just go to Abrams Trek Stardating- year and Julian calendar day, and just ditch the Gregorian calendar altogether.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on June 02, 2018, 02:10:30 am
As long as we don't go to Roddenbury star dates.  I can never work them out.

Do American Moslems also use MM/DD/YYYY?

Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: PR19_Kit on June 02, 2018, 02:24:32 pm

I must admit to using the above format yyyy-mm-dd or at least yy-mm-dd quite a lot. For work I have to save spreadsheet of test results once a week, and putting the date in this format in the title allows them to be sorted in date order ....


Exactly!  :thumbsup:

I use that system to title my digital photos, and even the folders in which they reside, as it automatically files them in date order, as does your spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: sandiego89 on June 02, 2018, 06:12:41 pm
I actually like the military way we often do it in the USA:  01 JUL 2018: 

All WHIF dates and Group Build dates/times should be something like:

Build starts on July 1, 2018, at 0001 wherever you are on the globe.

or Build starts on 01 July 2018, at 0001 wherever you are on the globe. 

Simples right?   
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: NARSES2 on June 04, 2018, 08:00:12 am
I think that's what we do basically ?

Must admit I can deal with most variants of dates but the US version throws me a bit. When I'm reading US published history books it can take a while, but then I just deal with it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on June 05, 2018, 03:32:32 am
51 1/2 hours to go, Melbourne time.
A bit more if you're West of me, less for the Kiwis.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: nighthunter on June 05, 2018, 08:18:51 pm
I use US military dating 05JUNE2018.

07JUNE is a Thursday, btw
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on June 07, 2018, 11:54:54 pm
OK.  This is done like a kipper.

I'm now off to Model Expo to enter some whiffs and when I get back (2ish hours) i'll be locking everything up.
Title: Re: Cold War GB 2018 Inspiration
Post by: zenrat on June 08, 2018, 02:56:50 am
Time gentlemen please.  You may not have homes to go to but you can't stay here.

This GB is now closed.  A poll will be along shortly to enable you to vote for your choice of Cold Warrior.