What if

Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: Scooterman on March 30, 2004, 07:12:04 am

Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Scooterman on March 30, 2004, 07:12:04 am
Can't keep this one in house anymore especially since somebody mentioned it a few weeks ago.

I'm half way thru my RAF Orion MR.2.  I wanted to base it off the P-7A with a stretch and new engines but I don't want to buy a C-130J kit just for the motors so it's back to a (basically) stock P-3 kit.

My issues are what to hang on this beast keeping in mind what a Nimrod could carry and airframe mods.

Sea Eagle were a first guess, but I don't think they were ever cleared for a Nimrod.  And I guess Nimrods were capable of slinging a few Harpoons but a US weapon on a US aircraft just looks like a P-3 with RAF markings.  But Sea Eagles just look the part and I have a few Sea Skua to hang out there for smaller targets.  Oh and of course a pair of Winders to keep the bad guys away.  

As for doing something different to the aircraft itself, I've already removed the MAD (not really nessessary mid '90s time peroid) and added a small radome under the rear fuselage.  A IFR probe is a must.  Anything else I missed?

As always, thanks for the input guys.  It really does help me to keep the projects going.

 :cheers:
Brad



 
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: F-32 on March 30, 2004, 07:18:20 am
The RAF Nimrods have rear camera stations built into the underside of the rear fuselage and also bubble windows for the crew to take pictures.  They also have the 7 million candle light in the wing pod for SAR and some sensors in the wing tip stations.

How about a tail gun......................a gattling gun :dum:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Geoff_B on March 30, 2004, 07:58:07 am
Hi Scoot

Nimrods could carry the AS-37 Martel from which the Sea Eagle developed, so if using the ones in an airfix Buccaneer then use the shorter radome and no air scoop. The RAF selected Harpoon rather than Sea Eagle for the Nimrods.

Other armament could include twin Sidewinder rails, BQZ chaff pods, wingtip ECM/ESM pods. If you wait till the Airix Tornado GR4 comes out then Storm Shadow should be available. Put the Sea Skua on a twin or triple Pylon for that little bit of difference.

Cheers

Thor B)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on March 30, 2004, 10:48:48 am
Well, the P-7A had a new, larger wing, too.  You might look at adding a constant chord/profile section at each wing root.  Another possibility, if you've got a beefed up landing gear is to go back to the original Electra forward fuselage length and stretch the weapons bay.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on March 30, 2004, 06:07:31 pm
Are you gonna paint it up in Hemp colours ?


Mmmm....hemp..........

Also, I've got a spare set of Herc engines floating around. What's the difference betwix them and the Aurora ones ? I can pass them along to you, or swap for your Orion ones ?

Chimo !
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Ollie on March 30, 2004, 06:34:43 pm
Toad, same engine but not same nacelle.  Aurora nacelles are like Convair 580 nacelles.  Hercules have intake under instead of above!

 ;)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on March 30, 2004, 06:38:26 pm
Ahhh....now that you mention it, it's too obvoius !

 B)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on March 30, 2004, 07:01:33 pm
Though I do believe Orion nacelles, at least the forward portions of them, were considered for the flying boat version of the Hercules.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: The Rat on March 30, 2004, 09:37:34 pm
Quote
...I don't want to buy a C-130J kit just for the motors ...
A company called Engines and Things (http://www.planet.eon.net/~engthg/) does Allison T56s, you can order them through greatmodels.com (http://www.greatmodels.com/) Part # ent72001 (Thanks to the other guys on this board for giving me that info just a few weeks ago!)

For props, and ditto on the thanks, you can get those paddle blades from Aeroclub, Product Code: P067 Name: 4 x HAMILTON STD 4 BLD 14' DIA CUFFED
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on March 30, 2004, 09:58:10 pm
Quote
For props, and ditto on the thanks, you can get those paddle blades from Aeroclub, Product Code: P067 Name: 4 x HAMILTON STD 4 BLD 14' DIA CUFFED
He said C-130J.  He wants the new six-bladed props used by the C-130J and the C-27J.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Matt Wiser on March 30, 2004, 10:14:13 pm
Here's several other possible P-3 operators: all were considering the P-3 or actually requested Orions but were refused.

France: Lockheed made an offer as an alternate to the Atlantic 2

West Germany: P-3s offered in late 70s, Would have been a P-7 customer had the program not been axed.

Taiwan: Repeated requests for Orions since 1980, habitually refused.

Italy:Would have had Orions in 1976 if not for a bribery scandal.

Indonesia: Considered P-3s at various times since 1970, but failed to purchase for various reasons.

Singapore: Too expensive, bought F-27-400MPs instead.

A possible future operator is India, as a Il-38/Tu-142 replacement; also possible are both Saudi Arabia and the UAE; Egypt also considering Orions.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: The Rat on March 30, 2004, 10:15:54 pm
Quote
Quote
For props, and ditto on the thanks, you can get those paddle blades from Aeroclub, Product Code: P067 Name: 4 x HAMILTON STD 4 BLD 14' DIA CUFFED
He said C-130J.  He wants the new six-bladed props used by the C-130J and the C-27J.
Your Honour, we plead insanity.  :wacko:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Aircav on March 31, 2004, 01:44:24 am
Well heres what the Nimrod MRA.4 should look like

 http://www.mod.uk/dpa/projects/contents.htm (http://www.mod.uk/dpa/projects/contents.htm)

and here is the MoD projects page

http://www.mod.uk/dpa/projects.htm (http://www.mod.uk/dpa/projects.htm)

I see that the Navy dropped a Merlin yesterday................that'll be 60m please sir, Doh!
I also see the the MoD has been taking money off peter to pay paul, nicking money off the EFA project to pay for the Gulf war, why not just take it off the Iraqis ? :P
 :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Nigel Bunker on March 31, 2004, 04:04:42 am
And here's what a Nimrod MRA.4 currently looks like:
Nimrod MRA.4 (http://www.annaheldaudette.com/Scrap_Metal-_Aluminum_small3.jpg)
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Scooterman on March 31, 2004, 07:07:43 am
Quote
Are you gonna paint it up in Hemp colours ?


Mmmm....hemp..........

You betcha!   :wub:  :wub: But I think one tin on Humbrol might not cover it.  Hafta look this weekend.

Speaking of colour, what's the grey on the belly of a Nimrod?  Thought I had that somewhere.

Brad

 
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Geoff_B on March 31, 2004, 07:51:12 am
Hi Brad

The colour is Light Aircraft Grey for the undersides. You could of course paint the Orion in Camoflage Grey (Hu 167 Barley Grey) as this is now the colour of the Tankers, E-3 & MR4.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Scooterman on March 31, 2004, 08:56:06 am
Quote
Hi Brad

The colour is Light Aircraft Grey for the undersides. You could of course paint the Orion in Camoflage Grey (Hu 167 Barley Grey) as this is now the colour of the Tankers, E-3 & MR4.

Cheers

Geoff B B)
Thanks for the colour Geoff.

I briefly thought about the new overall grey but then we're really looking like a USN Orion!

Hemp and LAG it is.  And big pink/lt blue roundels!  Maybe even a lo-vis shark mouth from a Granby Tornado decal sheet!

Will have everything finalised by this weekend.  And I just bought myself a digi-cam so I will post on the progress.

Thanks for all the input guys!

 :cheers: for all.

Brad
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Davey B on March 31, 2004, 10:56:49 am
Quote
Italy:Would have had Orions in 1976 if not for a bribery scandal
Lockheed? Oh goodness no...  :D
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: lancer on March 31, 2004, 02:25:44 pm
Well, if no Tiwanese Orions, how about Tiwanese Nimrods?? South Korean; Japanese - I think an MR2 or MR4 in that brilliant three tone JASDF blue cammo would look spectacular...
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: lancer on March 31, 2004, 02:27:31 pm
Brad,
Humbrol have discontinued thier Hemp paint - stupid buggers!!. If you can get hold of it, get the XTRACOLOR paint.  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Scooterman on March 31, 2004, 03:09:02 pm
Thanks for the head's up Lancer.  I just happen to be going to a well stocked hobby shop this weekend so if it hasn't been gone too long I still might find it.

We need a decent Nimrod in 1/72.......and yes the JASDF blue scheme would look tits.

Brad
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Matt Wiser on March 31, 2004, 10:57:28 pm
Davey, it wasn't Lockheed that was involved in the scandal, it was Aeritalia, who would have been a subcontractor to Lockheed for the deal; seems they bribed several Italian AF officers, and a couple of Parliment members. One of the latter went to the cops, and you have an idea of what happened next. The deal went south, half a dozen folks in Italy went to the can, and Lockheed was out of a 16-plane deal worth some $200 million in 1976 money. And the Italian AF buys Atlantics.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: F-32 on September 02, 2004, 01:59:43 am
I read in aircraft illustrated yesterday that the Dutch are selling their P3 Orions to the German Navy who is are their Atlantiques.

I was in the process of making a German Orion......................I'll have to pick another navy now! ^_^  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Geoff_B on September 02, 2004, 04:14:28 am
Quote
I was in the process of making a German Orion......................I'll have to pick another navy now!

No need Tony as they won't get tham for another year and we have yet to see the scheme they will be in so perfectly viable for the What-if Stand. As an alternative how about Poland as they are in the process of re-arming with Nato equipment. Trying to find a mainstream air force that doesn't use Orions these day can be quite hard as Atlantique users are now switching to cheaper Orions than going for the the updated Atlantic. The problem now is finding enougth Orions to go round without resorting to expensive rebuilds as most of the fleet has been worked hard. The USN is getting worried that its own Orions won't last in the numbers required until the Boeing MMA gets into full service.

Cheers

Geoff B B)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Geoff_B on September 02, 2004, 08:49:29 am
Fogot to add that the likely hood of Revell sorting out a reboxing agreement with Hasegawa on the P-3C Orion would be high now. I expected them to do one following on from the Neptune, Viking and Tracker releases they did but with Germany buying the Dutch machines i would bet on them appearing late next year depending on when the actual aircraft are delivered and repainted.

Cheers

Geoff
 
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Radish on September 02, 2004, 09:41:04 am
Polish would be good, as the Poles have it written into their constitution that the National Insignia has to be in full colour, so a splash of red/white amongst the greys of the camo.
 :wacko:
Or Bulgarian?
 :wacko:
Have the Greeks Orions?
They'd look really nice and tatty??
 :wacko:
Turkish Orions too??
 :wacko:
Do the Saudis have Orions?
Or Kuwait??
 :wacko:
Hellfire, the Royal air Force??
Hemp and Grey?
 :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: lancer on September 02, 2004, 10:09:05 am
How about Maltese Orions?? I think it'd be cool to see those lovely looking Maltese crosses painted on the sides and wings.  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Davey B on September 02, 2004, 10:26:50 am
Hmm, wonder if someone will buy up a few of those now-withdrawn S-3's from AMARC?

Malaysian, maybe? Or Singapore? Taiwan?  :huh:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Radish on September 02, 2004, 10:59:09 am
There's all those new NATO countries as has already been pointed out, as well as the Far East.
Part of "the joy of it all" is adding bits plus decals/schemes to the frankly unlikely.
So:

Croatian Orion plus S-3 Viking/
Estonian?
Lithuanian?
Latvian??

What about Serbian?
Japanese??

What about the Irish?
Or the Scottish? :lol:

The Hasegawa kit is a cracker (I have one in the stash) and a P2V Neptune would be nice too.

 :wub:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Swamphen on September 02, 2004, 02:29:02 pm
Quote
How about Maltese Orions?? I think it'd be cool to see those lovely looking Maltese crosses painted on the sides and wings.
How about those Knights-of-whatchamacallit-order that are based on Malta?
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Scooterman on September 02, 2004, 02:39:34 pm
Mmmmmmmm Polish S-3 Viking.  In the same colors as their soon to be produced F-16s......... :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Geoff_B on September 02, 2004, 03:10:31 pm
P-3 News (http://home.wxs.nl/~p3orion/news.html)

Artwork for the new German Orions plus some other interesting bits
 
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Shasper on September 02, 2004, 04:46:11 pm
Quote

How about those Knights-of-whatchamacallit-order that are based on Malta?

I believe they're called Knights of Malta  ;)  :P


 Iran has a few, grat camo too, so why not RSAF or Oman? India? Brazil? Argies?


Ves B)  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Jschmus on September 02, 2004, 04:58:00 pm
Let's see, there's Spain, Brazil, Australia, Canada, Japan and Iran, that I know of.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: BillSlim on September 02, 2004, 05:27:11 pm
Quote
I believe they're called Knights of Malta
The Hospitaller Knights of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem to give them their full name (known alternativley as the Knights Hospitaller or the Knights of St. John) and to be a nitpicker.
 Not much to do with P-3 Orions though.

 How about South Africa as a replacement for the faithful Shack?
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: retro_seventies on September 02, 2004, 05:46:07 pm
i think they operate p-3b's.... :huh:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Swamphen on September 02, 2004, 07:42:37 pm
Quote
Not much to do with P-3 Orions though.
If Radish can have an Imperial Roman Air Force, we can have Orions of the Knights Hospitaliers.  :P

Sovereign Military Order of Malta (http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/smom.html)
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on September 02, 2004, 08:37:31 pm
Quote
P-3 News (http://home.wxs.nl/~p3orion/news.html)

Artwork for the new German Orions plus some other interesting bits
Thanks for that one.  *G* I could correct some of their EP-3E comments, but I'm not sure it's something I can say too much about.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Aircav on September 03, 2004, 01:45:32 am
Can I have a Knights Templar version please ? cos' their already in NATO
http://www.kingmere.f9.co.uk/slideshow/12.html (http://www.kingmere.f9.co.uk/slideshow/12.html)
 :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

http://www.templarhistory.com/history.html (http://www.templarhistory.com/history.html)
http://www.crestregalia.co.uk/group.asp?Ra...eID=1&GroupID=5 (http://www.crestregalia.co.uk/group.asp?RangeID=1&GroupID=5)
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Davey B on September 03, 2004, 10:30:34 am
The Argentine Navy does indeed have Orions now. What about Brazil? I think the Sao Paulo/Foch is too small for the Viking, but hey!, this is What-If!  :D  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Radish on September 03, 2004, 11:14:21 am
Actually, in my Roman Empire scenario, the Templar Knights are an "elite" force, with essentially ground-attack units and "shock" troops.
Ther operate with black "maltese Crosses" on their aircraft/AFVs, a bit like German WW1 insignia, actually.
The Knights of St.John also operate in the same way, so have similar units but the insignia is a red Maltese Cross variation.....a bit like the Portuguese insignia!
strangly, Hun Mercenary aircraft/tanks operate in Full Roman insignia and usually have a Roman Commander at least.
 :wub:
 :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Jschmus on September 03, 2004, 03:39:47 pm
I went over to airliners.net, and found some existing P-3 schemes:

Portugal (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/650886/M/)

New Zealand (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/651552/M/)

US Navy (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/641779/M/)

Spain (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/623333/M/)

USN Old Style (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/606660/M/)

Netherlands (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/565819/M/)

Japan (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/497448/M/)

USN Hi-Vis (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/403083/M/)

Chile (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/388429/M/)

Norway (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/366170/M/)

Australia (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/348952/M/)

Iran (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/202493/M/)

That last was shot near sunset, so there are no colors.  I just included it for the novelty.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: nev on September 04, 2004, 12:31:25 am
The Knights of the Order of Saint John of Jerusalem are better known in Britain as the St Johns Ambulance (volunteer first aiders seen at sporting events & stuff, for non-Brits).

The order ininially started to run a hospital in Jerusalem for visiting pilgrims (hence the name Hospitaliers).  After the crusaders were finally kicked out they travelled round the Med before finally settling in Malta which they ruled till the early 19th century when the Maltese people asked Britain to look after them and protect them from Napolean.  The high point of the Knights rule was in the 17th century when the Ottoman Turks tried to take Malta in a long and bloody siege, but where eventually beaten back.  It is from the Knights that we get the Maltese Cross, its 8 points representing the 8 countries that contributed Knights to the Order.

Nev (who has been to Malta, where stuff about the Knights is everywhere ).


Of course, what someone really needs to do is a Maltese F-16.

Geddit?  A Maltese Falcon  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: lancer on September 04, 2004, 05:48:19 am
Quote
The Knights of the Order of Saint John of Jerusalem are better known in Britain as the St Johns Ambulance (volunteer first aiders seen at sporting events & stuff, for non-Brits).

The order ininially started to run a hospital in Jerusalem for visiting pilgrims (hence the name Hospitaliers).  After the crusaders were finally kicked out they travelled round the Med before finally settling in Malta which they ruled till the early 19th century when the Maltese people asked Britain to look after them and protect them from Napolean.  The high point of the Knights rule was in the 17th century when the Ottoman Turks tried to take Malta in a long and bloody siege, but where eventually beaten back.  It is from the Knights that we get the Maltese Cross, its 8 points representing the 8 countries that contributed Knights to the Order.

Nev (who has been to Malta, where stuff about the Knights is everywhere ).


Of course, what someone really needs to do is a Maltese F-16.

Geddit?  A Maltese Falcon  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Would that be with Humphrey Bogart as the squadron commander????
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on September 04, 2004, 06:31:42 pm
Quote
Quote
The Knights of the Order of Saint John of Jerusalem are better known in Britain as the St Johns Ambulance (volunteer first aiders seen at sporting events & stuff, for non-Brits).

The order ininially started to run a hospital in Jerusalem for visiting pilgrims (hence the name Hospitaliers).  After the crusaders were finally kicked out they travelled round the Med before finally settling in Malta which they ruled till the early 19th century when the Maltese people asked Britain to look after them and protect them from Napolean.  The high point of the Knights rule was in the 17th century when the Ottoman Turks tried to take Malta in a long and bloody siege, but where eventually beaten back.  It is from the Knights that we get the Maltese Cross, its 8 points representing the 8 countries that contributed Knights to the Order.

Nev (who has been to Malta, where stuff about the Knights is everywhere ).


Of course, what someone really needs to do is a Maltese F-16.

Geddit?  A Maltese Falcon  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Would that be with Humphrey Bogart as the squadron commander????
And of course the color scheme will be black.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: SebastianP on October 08, 2007, 04:24:22 pm
Props went out of fashion with the end of WWII. The P-3C is a prop aircraft. Ergo, the P-3C is a WWII aircraft...

To fit in with other aircraft of the time, it will of course have to be modified. I'm thinking it at least needs a glass nose, to accomodate a bombardier - or maybe the bombardier sits in the cockpit and has a periscope for manual bomb aiming.

The sonobuouy dispenser must of course be turned into an aft bomb bay, and the area between the wing roots is a good place to put a belly turret. Likewise, it needs waist and tail guns - not certain there's a use for a dorsal turret.

The scheme would naturally include invasion stripes, if for no other reason than that it looks cool...

(I'm unlikely to actually attempt this, since I no longer have my old messed up B-17, but the general arrangement just struck me as a perfect kitbash opportunity. How well it would fly is a completely different story, though...)

SP
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 08, 2007, 08:57:57 pm
Hi Sebastian, you are certainly proposing some very radical changes to the P-3.  

I would have to argue about propellers being out of fashion as they do have some use even today on cargo aircrft with certain performance requirements.  I was going to try and upgrade one of my P-3 kits with the propellers from the Italeri C-130J just to make it look better.  I actually had them set aside for such a purpose until some silver tongued devil talked me out of the kit and the propellers claiming he really wanted to do that very same thing.  So I am in the process of trying to find another set of spare C-130J propellers at the moment.  

Your suggestions for adding a bombadier nose and gun turrets certainly does bear a second look, if not in model form, perhaps as a WHIF profile from one of the artists that are frequenting this forum.  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on October 08, 2007, 09:17:39 pm
If I could safely trim structural weight elsewhere, the mod I'd be tempted to make is to restore the lost length and bring the P-3 main fuselage length up to that of the Electra (ISTR that Lockheed removed ten feet or so of forward fuselage).  There's a lot that could be done with this extra volume.  I rather suspect that a redesign of the fuselage to use modern manufacturing methods (large sections with machined stringers and frames rather than pieced together structure covered in skins is the most obvious improvement that high-speed machining makes).

As for engine/propeller changes, using the items from the C-130J makes a lot of sense, as well as a full range of equipment upgrades.  I don't know that I'd replace the sonobuoy chutes with an aft weapons bay, that's really getting far enough aft that the cg shift on weapons release would be a right pain to deal with.  Extending the forward fuselage and weapons bay would make more sense.  If you were going to add turrets, I'd go with the remote barbettes as used by the B-29 et al. rather than individual manned turrets, though you might want to consider a manned tail gunner position.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: SebastianP on October 09, 2007, 02:45:20 am
Oh man, I used to own a C-130J kit - it was missing too many pieces and was just too big to keep when I moved a few years ago, so it got thrown out... :( On the other hand, IIRC the engines of the -130J are a lot bigger than the ones on the P-3, so I'm not sure the props would fit.

About the aircraft trim, what about moving the belly turret to the position of the sonobuoy unit and extending the forward fuselage (I've got two kits! Ph34r!). Also, the P-3 has comparatively huge interior spaces (vis-a-vis a B-17 at least), and you could probably shift the radio room etc pretty far back if you wanted.

This is all still very hypothetical, though - one of my two kits is definitely going to end up in the boxtop scheme (low-vis JMSDF!) and the other is earmarked for my German collection...

SP
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on October 11, 2007, 09:38:28 am
The P-3 and earlier versions of the C-130 both use the Allison T56.  The engines on the C-130J are a direct replacement for these and should fit the P-3 with no problem.  You may have to do some mod work on the nacelles, but the basic fit is there.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: kitnut617 on October 11, 2007, 10:23:17 am
You can get engines, spinners and props here:
http://www.theaviationworkshop.co.uk/page7/page7.html (http://www.theaviationworkshop.co.uk/page7/page7.html)
when this opens keep clicking the right hand arrow till you find the C-130J engine set.

or drop Jen on ARC a line as she makes these too. Her ARC Username is Desmojen.

Mind you looking at the set I bought off her, the set on the Aviation Workshop site look very similar.

Robert
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on October 11, 2007, 10:39:42 am
If you're going WWII bomber for your P-3...how about radials ? Would look really cool with turrets and RAF camo......go for it !

 :party:  
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on October 11, 2007, 10:48:51 am
Quote
If you're going WWII bomber for your P-3...how about radials ? Would look really cool with turrets and RAF camo......go for it !

 :party:
You mean like the Argonaut/Northstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_North_Star) or the CP-107 Argus? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP-107_Argus)
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Archibald on October 12, 2007, 12:32:58 am
Why not mighty Northrop Turbodynes ? so powerfull (8000 to 10 000 hp!)  that you only need two of them  :wub:  (
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: GTX on October 12, 2007, 12:51:48 pm
Quote
The engines on the C-130J are a direct replacement for these and should fit the P-3 with no problem

Except for the similar problems that would possibly be encountered when LM replaced the T-56s on the C-130 with AE2100s - sorry for the real world interlude.

Regards,

Greg
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: elmayerle on October 12, 2007, 06:44:06 pm
Quote
Why not mighty Northrop Turbodynes ? so powerfull (8000 to 10 000 hp!)  that you only need two of them
Yeah, but rather large engines compared to the T56, or just the wing chord of the P-3.  The T56 represents at least two generations more of technological developement.  If you really want only two engines, use two T54s (The T54 is to the T56 as the XT40 was to the XT38).
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: SebastianP on November 16, 2007, 03:38:35 am
I still haven't gotten around to building that pair of P-3 kits, but I've been bashing around some more ideas for them instead. One came up while assembling the A-6E:

Cut out about an inch of the fuselage fore and aft of the wing, plus the outboard engine. Use the cut in the wing to create a wingfold, and add a tailhook aft of the sonobuoy dispensers. With a pair of multi-bladed props and a scratchbuilt Erieye air search radar, presto next-gen carrier AEW&C.

Use the cut out fuselage sections to extend the other P-3 kit, for a stretch P-3, and the engines together with a larger-scale WWII fighter to make a twin-turboprop fighter....

SP
 
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Daryl J. on November 26, 2007, 02:37:11 pm
Make them all-new manufacture after getting an all new electronics suite.  

Herc. multiblade props, winglets, some external underwing or underbelly heavy duty antishipping munitions.   Subtle changes yes?


Daryl J.
Title: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on November 26, 2007, 03:50:28 pm
Good ideas, Daryl....and replace the MAD boom with some kind of radome like that Nimrod project.......replace the MAD with some kind of towed aparatus.

 :wub:  
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 22, 2008, 01:54:59 pm
Good ideas, Daryl....and replace the MAD boom with some kind of radome like that Nimrod project.......replace the MAD with some kind of towed aparatus.
For what its worth, the P-3 is equipped with a radar under the MAD boom in that ever-so-slightly bulged section of the rear fuselage.  The purpose of this antenna is to allow continuous radar coverage of an area during maneuvering of the aircraft so as to not lose radar track of a target.  This information comes from personal experience with the aircraft on Adak NAS when I was afforded the opportunity work with the resident VP squadron AIMD and had an opportunity to really get to know the P-3C. 
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: rickshaw on March 19, 2011, 07:25:27 pm
Just came across pictures of the NP-3D.

(http://www.air-and-space.com/20040918%20Pt%20Mugu/DSC_3342%20NP-3D%20150522%20VX-30%20340%20left%20side%20l.jpg)

(http://www.air-and-space.com/20040918%20Pt%20Mugu/DSC_3340%20NP-3D%20150522%20VX-30%20340%20left%20side%20tail%20l.jpg)

The NP-3D is used by the Naval Test Wing Pacific's Naval Weapons Test Squadrons at Point Mugu (NWTSPM) where it employs five NP-3D Orion aircraft  for operations on the local Sea Range and for worldwide missile test support. Range missions include radar/visual safety surveillance, telemetry data collection and retransmission, Time, Space, Position Information  (TSPI), high resolution optical collections and general Fleet support. The worldwide mission is broader, serving a large customer base which includes DoD constituents, foreign services, the Department of Energy (DoE) and more.

Three of the five NP-3D aircraft have been retrofitted with the unique billboard phased array telemetry antenna systems. Each of these systems can track up to five independent, geographically separated, S-Band telemetry sources, (including Harpoon, SLAM, Standard and Tomahawk missiles), provide recorded data collection in the S-band, and can retransmit six L-band frequencies to ground stations for real-time analysis. Two of these airframes have advanced capabilities of tracking five independent targets (extended S-band) with dual polarity and a gain in excess of 30 dB.

I could imagine something similar for an advanced AEW version of the P-3...
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: GTX on March 30, 2011, 12:35:57 am
It was drawn quickly and is very crude, but KP-3B anyone:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/KP3B.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: McColm on March 30, 2011, 01:16:23 am
Could slot into the 'Alternative tankers'.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 30, 2011, 02:44:49 am
Couldn't they have made a serious effort and made the NP-3D uglier?  ;D

I'm surprised they didn't have to add some forward lateral area to compensate for that YEUK of an aerial, it has some significant side area aft of the CoP.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: rickshaw on March 30, 2011, 03:39:05 am
Couldn't they have made a serious effort and made the NP-3D uglier?  ;D

I'm surprised they didn't have to add some forward lateral area to compensate for that YEUK of an aerial, it has some significant side area aft of the CoP.

To quote someone or other, who I forget, "this lady is not made for turnin'!"  :lol:
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Maverick on March 30, 2011, 03:55:43 am
There are very few 'test' platforms that I've seen that can be construed as 'aesthetically pleasing' but for whatever reason, they appeal to me in spades.  The reality of their flight characteristics must be something else entirely however.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: DarrenP on January 12, 2012, 03:18:46 pm
with all the news from east africa about Piracy and use of Private military companies that might make some interesting colour schemes?
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: McColm on January 13, 2012, 12:14:06 am
I'm not too sure about the engines, I used of the C-130 resin engines from David J Perkins on my Lockheed Neptune MR2 build.
I've used the Airfix 1/72 BAe Nimrod wings on my Revell Br.1150 Atlantic AEW & C build. They might work with  a P-3 fuselage or a Nimrod with Orion wings :banghead:
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: DarrenP on February 02, 2012, 03:34:41 pm
Orion/Electra with Nimrod AEW3 radomes would be interesting
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: McColm on February 03, 2012, 12:33:00 am
There is an AEW version flown by the US Customs using a E-2 Hawkeye spin top.
 I came up with a carrier version, Arctic/ski and float plane ideas. As I'm using the wings and engines from one of my 1/72 P-3 Orion's' on a Super Connie concept the P-7 would be a possible build for me to utilise the remaining fuselage parts on my second P-3 and add the skis to the undercarriage wheels. I could add a pair of auxiliary jet engines under each wing, flight refueling probe and FLIR. Not too sure about opening up the weapons bay, I may have to get back to you on that after my HP Victor 1.5 MRA build.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Damian2 on January 07, 2014, 03:27:03 pm
HOLY THREAD REVIVE!!

Hi guys,

Was doing a little research into the PX-L and P-X programs when I decided to tinker with the P-3 airframe and mate it to a new wing with winglet, tail plane and turbojet engines. This resulted in a deepening of the fuselage (now can house a bomb bay and sounabuoy launchers). Bear in mind this is a very quick and rought job and I have been up since 05:30 local (now 01:21) :)

I think with a little refinement this could be a pretty cool whiff. Will play around with the configuration changing up engines, wings and fuselage to see what works.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/824/t84s.png)
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: kitnut617 on January 07, 2014, 03:43:25 pm
Air Spray's fire bomber, seen at the Airdrie Airshow July 2013

(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa263/kitnut617/Airdrie%20Airshow%202013/AirdrieAirshow2013034_zps0d7738a7.jpg) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/kitnut617/media/Airdrie%20Airshow%202013/AirdrieAirshow2013034_zps0d7738a7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: kitnut617 on January 07, 2014, 03:45:24 pm
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/824/t84s.png)

I like that Damien, what did you use, 737 wing ?
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Damian2 on January 08, 2014, 02:33:49 am
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/824/t84s.png)

I like that Damien, what did you use, 737 wing ?

Yup, it's a 737 wing but as any crazy idea I am still far from done :)
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: DarrenP on January 08, 2014, 04:07:30 pm
I like the thought of the Orion replacing the UK's nimrod fleet but updated like the P7 with the same engines as the J hercs and avionics from the nimrod 2000 project. but instead of them going to the RAF they become a Royal Navy Asset joining the Fleet Air Arm.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 08, 2014, 07:32:04 pm
I like the thought of the Orion replacing the UK's nimrod fleet but updated like the P7.......

Which Nimrod fleet would that be then.................?
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on January 08, 2014, 08:09:47 pm
Which Nimrod fleet would that be then.................?

This fleet?  ;)

(http://www.fighter-collection.com/mg/nimrod/Nimrod.jpg)

(http://bdd.deltareflex.com/photos/highdef/6/6755.jpg)
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on January 08, 2014, 08:43:52 pm
That looks awesome Damian ! Did a double take thought it was an Airbus for a second......

Nice looking Electra Robert ! Love that aeroplane.

Great to see the Nimrod pics as well. What a beautiful biplane...arguably the best looking ever ! And those shots are spectacular !

 :cheers:
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 09, 2014, 02:30:01 am
Which Nimrod fleet would that be then.................?

This fleet?  ;)

There's certainly more of them flying around than there are of the Nimrods we SHOULD have, and have already paid for I should add.......
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: DarrenP on January 09, 2014, 05:11:52 am
yes we'd paid for the aircraft. But weren't going to fork out more to sort out the poor engineering of the basic airframe. And that was before Avionics integration or weapons integration. There is allot of mythology that the nimrods were fully operation aircraft when the plug was pulled the truth is they were basic airframes with no mission fit. In theory the mission fit would be the best in the world today. But it wasn't fitted or integrated. Nimrods could not have lifted out of BaE and gone on patrol on the day that the Govt pulled the plug.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: rickshaw on January 09, 2014, 05:24:09 pm
I've often wondered why they haven't pushed Hercules as MPA.  It has the range and the fuselage is roomy enough to hang all sorts of sensors off and you can fit oodles of computing power inside one to handle it.   Put some phased array cheeks on the side, a FLIR in the nose and a MAD bird on a wire at the back.  Sonar dispensers on the tail ramp, weapons on external racks on the wings.

I've never understood why the UK Government decided to try and upgrade the Nimrods.  It was always going to be an extremely expensive proposition.  They'd have been better off purchasing either P-3s and refurbishing them, themselves or Posedons or even the aforementioned Hercules MPA.  It would have saved a lot of money.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: pyro-manic on January 09, 2014, 10:14:46 pm
Or anything else, for that matter. I think the Nimrod 4 was sold as an upgrade to existing aircraft, rather than an entirely new one as it basically was. Basically a way to make a very expensive project sound cheap. Plus it was a contract to a British company, rather than another import.

Hercules MPA sounds good, if a bit slow. I expect there will be an order for Poseidons at some point in the future, though that may depend on whether the Trident boats are replaced...
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 10, 2014, 01:59:19 am
I've never understood why the UK Government decided to try and upgrade the Nimrods.  It was always going to be an extremely expensive proposition. 

Because the were BRITISH!
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on January 10, 2014, 05:48:13 am
For fans of the P-3 family, they are doing a lot of Electra flying on the tv show 'Ice Pilots'. Lots of maintenance as well ! The episode where Chuck and the boys show the RCAF how to do an engine change is priceless !

 :cheers:
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: DarrenP on January 10, 2014, 12:05:12 pm
the bulk of flying electras are now in Canada Air Atlantique's went to buffalo and were the last 2 in Europe apart from the Christmas trees at coventry
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: kitnut617 on January 10, 2014, 03:36:32 pm
Before Joe (Buffalo owner) went to the UK to get those two Electras, one of the ones he already had suffered a mishap which was the reason he headed to the UK.  One of the main gear wouldn't come down so the crew had to do a 'two-leg' landing with the result of two written off engines and props.  I think I've read somewhere it's now back in the air ---  Joe didn't just take the Electras, he also just about cleaned out all the spares Atlanique had.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Captain Canada on January 12, 2014, 03:06:24 pm
He tried to get some of the firebombers from California as well, but after a few days of negotiating some big American conglomerate stepped in and walked off with the whole lot....somat like 17 airframes......

 :banghead:
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: McColm on February 04, 2014, 10:41:27 am
The classic C-130's are extremely noisy. I haven't been up in one of the C-130Js yet, but an Atlas with a maritime suite on board would be a better alternative. (might save my pennies up and build a 1/72 Revell based Atlas AEW!) The French are updating some of their Atlantiques.
The Nimrod 2000 was promoted as a maritime update to be fitted to the P-3 Orions and Atlantics.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on February 04, 2014, 11:10:41 am
He tried to get some of the firebombers from California as well, but after a few days of negotiating some big American conglomerate stepped in and walked off with the whole lot....somat like 17 airframes......

 :banghead:

If you mean the eight Aero-Union P-3s, they were purchased by UAC (United Aeronautical Corporation), a spares specialist but hardly a big conglomerate, from the bank holding Aero-Union's debt, and as they were all ex-military airframes all Buffalo could have used them for was spares.
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: Nils on March 30, 2019, 03:15:50 pm
i have a question regarding the L-188,

i just bought a 1/72 P-3 orion, but im planning to demilitarise it into an updated, shortened version of the Electra, but i cant seem to find information on the dimensions and spacing of the windows along the fuselage. any help?
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 30, 2019, 03:59:47 pm
Why not re-scale an Electra drawing to your model's size?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/639/Bp9THr.gif)

Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on March 30, 2019, 06:14:54 pm
General L-188 frame spacing is 19", the windows fit between the frames.

Four pages on the L-188 from Flight:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%201605.html
Title: Re: P-3, CP-140, Electra
Post by: kitnut617 on March 31, 2019, 08:08:09 am
i have a question regarding the L-188,

i just bought a 1/72 P-3 orion, but im planning to demilitarise it into an updated, shortened version of the Electra,


This should help then but scroll down a bit. Also notice the first conversion set in 1/72 -- a Carvair;

http://www.contrailsmodels.com/Conversion_s.html