What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Topic started by: frank2056 on November 18, 2006, 02:01:34 pm

Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: frank2056 on November 18, 2006, 02:01:34 pm
A few years ago, I bought a handful of 1/72 WWI planes. Most were old Revell kits and one pristine ESCI Neiuport 17. The Revell kits were in bad shape, and most were missing decals, instructions or parts so I got the whole lot for less than $10.

The worst of the lot was a Fokker Eindeker E-III. It was missing several vital parts and the plastic was about as brittle as a resin kit.

I decided to make the most of what was left, and came up with the idea of turning it into a variant of the Morane-Saulnier type G or H, which looked remarkably like the Eindekker.

To make it WIFFier, I wondered what if the Coanda powerplant had been developed past 1910? It wouldn't have displaced piston engines due to the high heat and fuel consumption. But what if in 1915, Messrs. Morane & Saulnier had developed an engine with a performance that rivaled or surpassed existing designs? For one, you wouldn't need an interrupter for the guns.

This is what I have so far:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSA.jpg)

Most of the white parts (like the tail plane) are replacements. I also added ailerons because wing warping is so 1914!

I used ShroudCalc (http://www.rocketreviews.com/tool_shroud.shtml) to produce the pattern for the cowl. The first one was of paper, the second out of a Coke Zero can, and the third out of 0.005" brass:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSB.jpg)

It was incredibly easy to produce the cowls - less than 10 minutes each from start to finish. I crimped the metal cowls, and the results I think, look very WWI-ish.

I also printed out patterns for the impeller/fan. I didn't like the first fan, so I made a second, with wider blades. The first fan will now go behind the rotary engine. The second will act as the compressor:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSC.jpg)

Here's a top view with the cowl attached:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSD.jpg)

A front view with the cowl removed:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSE.jpg)

And in place:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSF.jpg)

The headrest area is half a lifeboat from an old Revell T-2 tanker. I still have to add some more details (instrument panel, add the seat, guns, some rigging) and add blast deflectors under the wings. I moved the tail skid forward to keep the plane level on the ground. We don't want to start fires on takeoff!

It'll be a shame to paint the brass, though. I named it "petit pet" (little fart) because I'm really bad at naming things. Help with a good name would be appreciated!

Frank
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: John Howling Mouse on November 18, 2006, 04:31:55 pm
What?  Where'd this come from?!  Encroyable.  I have to set up a new archive folder for this one.   :wub:

And that Shroud Calculating site: incredible.  This could really come in handy. All you scratchbuilders save that as a bookmarked favorite!

Any similar helpful calculation sites like that?

I'd keep the "petit pet" moniker though, even if just a term of endearment by her pilots and groundcrew.
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Eddie M. on November 18, 2006, 06:36:41 pm
Your problem solving and execution is brilliant! Welcome aboard!! B)
     Eddie  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: BlackOps on November 18, 2006, 07:56:25 pm
Really great build so far Frank, thanks for bringing my feelings of inadequacy back to the surface   :dum:
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Tophe on November 18, 2006, 08:15:01 pm
Quote
I named it "petit pet" (little fart) because I'm really bad at naming things. Help with a good name would be appreciated!
Frank
Your model name sounds delicious, while smells bad... ;)
I don't know if you are speaking French as mother language (like a few of us here) or not. First I thought that "Petit pet" could be misunderstood, as the not intéresting "Petit Pé" (Little-P) or "Petit Pèt" (Little Shock), but I have checked in my phonétic dictionary and this is the still different "Petit Pè" which has a single meaning it seems, your Little Fart. Funny joke :D (personnaly I like this smile towards killing machines claiming to be heroes...)
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Archibald on November 19, 2006, 12:02:34 am
Quote
wondered what if the Coanda powerplant had been developed past 1910? It wouldn't have displaced piston engines due to the high heat and fuel consumption. But what if in 1915, Messrs. Morane & Saulnier had developed an engine with a performance that rivaled or surpassed existing designs? For one, you wouldn't need an interrupter for the guns

I wondered exactly the same thing some years ago... well, here's a bomber (which has now a fighter to escort it)
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...11139&hl=coanda (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=11139&hl=coanda)

Nice petit pet, really!!!  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: B777LR on November 19, 2006, 02:30:04 am
HOW CUTE! :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Brian da Basher on November 19, 2006, 06:18:54 am
Wow simply gorgeous!!! Your work is really impressive Frank! I can't wait to see more on this one!

Brian da Basher
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Sisko on November 19, 2006, 01:53:12 pm
I'm always in awe of someone who does rigged aircraft.

They are the one subject that I am intimdated by.
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: frank2056 on December 17, 2006, 04:59:29 pm
Progress on Le Petit Pet!

I made some decals and painted the plane in tan.  The areas that would get hot on the wing roots and the elevator were painted in steel and represent aluminum doped wing surfaces, or aluminum covered wood. I sanded down the upper surface of the main wing because the rib and fabric effect were just ridiculously overdone.

Here's a beauty shot from above:
(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSI.JPG)

This is a low port side view. I moved the compressor blade forward and remade the cowl out of aluminum from a soda can (or aluminium for our UK friends) because nothing says aluminum like aluminum! I also added exhaust tubes and a blast deflector and moved the tail skid forward.

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSH.JPG)

This is another side view:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/MSG.JPG)

The tail codes are completely made up. The lower letters "Type Rc" stand for "Type Reacteur-Coanda" The aircraft nickname is only on the left side.

I made decals for the wheels because I just didn't want to paint them.
 
Still left to do is add the cockpit fittings, one or two machine guns (that I'll have to scratch build) a windscreen and the most "fun" part, the rigging... which I'll make as minimal as possible.
 
Frank
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Brian da Basher on December 17, 2006, 05:58:51 pm
Wow Frank that's stunning work! I am in complete awe.

For rigging, I suggest .009 steel guitar strings. You can cut them easily to length with a good pair of nippers and secure them to the model with white school glue like Elmer's™. This is by far the easiest rigging method I'd discovered.

I'll be looking forward to your next update on this little beauty!

Brian da Basher
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: The Rat on December 17, 2006, 06:57:49 pm
We are not worthy.  :wub:

That is just cool. No, way cool!

Where's my wool?  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Tophe on December 17, 2006, 08:06:19 pm
Congratulations... :wub: So much better than what the kit was intended to build... This is what-if improvement reaching the top...
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Archibald on December 18, 2006, 12:15:30 am
Man, that's just lovely! Hmmm I've have to rebuild my coanda's wings (with pastic card)

Ideas are coming thanks to you :) !  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Archibald on December 18, 2006, 12:37:13 am
March 18th 1918. An air field 30 km East of Paris

For some days now, Cpt Jean Bonneau had been tasked with an important mission.
His squadron -MS-406- was top secret. This was to be the first test of France new aircraft, the Morane Saulnier Type P.

When training, the pilots had been impressed by the loud noise of the aircraft.

Sgt Henri Cauvert was a pilot of the squadron. He was coming from Toulouse and noticed that "this noise looks like the farts we made after eating a good cassoulet."

A young mecanician warned the pilots that their aircrafts were now ready to fly.But he made a lapse, mistaking "Petit pet" and "Type P"...

He said "Vos petits pets... eeerh Type P sont pret a voler plein gaz..."  (sorry, the pun desn't works in english)

The lapse - added to Cauvert pun on the noise of the plane- stayed.

And that's how the MS Type P become the petit P, due to its noise and a mecanician lapse...


Mission of the squadron was simple : air cover of Paris against the Gothas bombers. The Petit pets had Le Prieur rockets underwings, and their superior speed would help breaking the escort of the bombers...
 
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Rafael on December 18, 2006, 02:34:26 am
Beautiful model!!!!.
Archi, That IS a Backstory!!!


Wonderful :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: cthulhu77 on December 18, 2006, 03:20:19 am
:cheers:   Absolutely fascinating build, you have really created a masterpiece. I think the name is also perfect, and totally believable.  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: lancer on December 18, 2006, 04:26:32 am
Quote
:cheers:   Absolutely fascinating build, you have really created a masterpiece. I think the name is also perfect, and totally believable.
Cn't put it any better than that Fank, you have created a beautiful masterpice.
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: NARSES2 on December 18, 2006, 04:55:22 am
That is really nice
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 18, 2006, 06:28:27 am
This forum always surprises me.


i like it  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Radish on December 18, 2006, 09:04:27 am
That is SO SO SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AWESOME :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: frank2056 on December 18, 2006, 09:44:11 am
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments!

Brian - I started to rig the plane last night with thin nylon thread painted steel gray, but the guitar string idea is intriguing - how flexible/springy are the strands?  The rigging I'm doing will actually be functional - the plastic has drooped over the years and I'm hoping that I can tension the wings back to level (hopefully without breaking this brittle plastic). I'm only going to do 8 lines - two on top of each wing and two on the bottom.

As for guns, I'll have to figure out an easy pair to make.

Archie - I love that back story! It's far better than mine. I think I'll photoshop Georges Guynemer standing next to the finished plane, although it would have to be in 1917. Maybe Charles Nungesser...

Frank
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: B777LR on December 18, 2006, 10:03:30 am
Im stunned, theres no word good enough for that!
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on December 18, 2006, 06:18:01 pm
Yeahhhh it's OK I s'pose....... ;)

Welcome to the mad-haouse Frank, that's a h*ll of a way to make and entrance !

Ian
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Brian da Basher on December 18, 2006, 06:22:13 pm
Quote
Hey guys, thanks for all the comments!

Brian - I started to rig the plane last night with thin nylon thread painted steel gray, but the guitar string idea is intriguing - how flexible/springy are the strands?  The rigging I'm doing will actually be functional - the plastic has drooped over the years and I'm hoping that I can tension the wings back to level (hopefully without breaking this brittle plastic). I'm only going to do 8 lines - two on top of each wing and two on the bottom.

<snip>
Frank,
    Rigging with .009 m.m. steel guitar strings and white glue probably won't add much in terms of structural integrity. The thinner steel guitar strings aren't very flexible and tend to hold a strong crimp or bend. I've heard of some folks rigging larger-scale models with wire, but in 1/72 the best way for increasing structural strength is to drill out holes in the wings and run fishing line through the wings, securing them to the end struts with CA.

I hope this helps. I'm really impressed with your build and look forward to seeing it rigged.

Brian da Basher
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Archibald on December 19, 2006, 06:05:59 am
Quote
Archie - I love that back story! It's far better than mine. I think I'll photoshop Georges Guynemer standing next to the finished plane, although it would have to be in 1917. Maybe Charles Nungesser...

That would be cool! We have a member here -matrixone- wich is really a crack in doing more-than-real photos of its models. I'm just trying to imagine photo of the Petit P in this style...

I remember that MS were named after letters (the type N for example) with grand or petit depending for the span.
Does petit P come from these designations ?
Lot of fun writing this story, I think it's one of the best I've wrote so war...  :unsure:
 
 
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Chap on December 19, 2006, 06:34:53 pm
Frank, beautiful little model. I just love World War I wifs (say that 3 times fast! :P ). Such a plausible subject, fantastic.

~Steve
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Tophe on December 19, 2006, 08:44:31 pm
Quote
of the Petit P in this style...
I remember that MS were named after letters (the type N for example) with grand or petit depending for the span.
Does petit P come from these designations ?
Your interpretation is a little shy, Archie. Maybe too much serious... ;)
"Le petit Pet" does not mean "Le petit P" (pronounced Pé) but "Le petit Prout" (the little fart, pronounced Pè). No?
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: frank2056 on December 27, 2006, 07:28:58 pm
I finally finished it!

Here's a top view. The blobs on the rigging are the turnbuckles. They're made from chain links from a 1/350 scale photoetched anchor that I made. Note the big gun on the starboard side:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/ppet1392.JPG)

Here's a better view of the "Gotha Buster". It's a 4 barrel small caliber automatic Gatling gun powered by a reduction gear coupled with the engine. The gun was suggested by Georges Guynemer as a way to destroy the large Gotha bombers quickly. While the bullets were of small caliber, the gun was able to deliver a large mass of bullets to the target in a very short period of time (I need a better name for the gun, guys!). The gun had a tendency to jam if more than 80 rounds were fired, so the magazine was limited to 80 rounds. A single standard aircraft machine gun was mounted in front of the pilot, with a much slower firing rate but more ammunition:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/ppet1395.JPG)

Here's a front view with a 1/72 figure for scale:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/ppet1396.JPG)

And here are a couple of "beauty shots":

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/ppet1401.JPG)

and this one shows the sun shining through the rudder - completely unplanned and unexpected, but it makes it look like it's really made of fabric:

(http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/Images/MS/ppet1404.JPG)

I added a PE gunsight ring to the center gun, but it's not visible in any of the photos I took today.

I have a few more images here. (http://frank.bol.ucla.edu/ppet.htm)

Overall, this was a really fun project, with few - if any - serious problems.

Frank
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: BlackOps on December 27, 2006, 07:41:38 pm
Frank, it turned out great, and you had fun too. I'm pretty sure you can't ask for much more than that!

I love the Beauty shot with the sun shining off the engine cowling  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: John Howling Mouse on December 27, 2006, 08:08:28 pm
Speechless.  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Brian da Basher on December 28, 2006, 05:47:57 am
Absolutely stunning, Frank! I love the Guynemer Gotha Gatling! It adds a very plausible dimension to an already believable aircraft and backstory. This is without a doubt one of the best W.W. I whiffs I've ever seen. Your rigging is top-shelf too. The turnbuckles are a very cool added detail.

Four stars, Frank!

Brian da Basher
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: RotorheadTX on December 29, 2006, 11:12:48 am
Wowsers! Tres cool!!

The last two photos are priceless!

 :cheers:  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: nev on December 29, 2006, 11:45:45 am
Wow, that sure is purdy.  So clean and simple-looking, disguising the truly superlative modelling that went into its construction  B)  
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: frank2056 on January 02, 2007, 10:27:33 am
Thanks for all the comments! I've started and finished two models since I started browsing this forum in earnest, so you guys have really been an inspiration.

The best part of this project was to salvage a kit that seemed destined for the trash (or sitting around in the parts bin until the end of time...) and turn it into something interesting.

Frank
Title: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Archibald on January 03, 2007, 04:32:47 am
Quote
I finally finished it!

Here's a top view. The blobs on the rigging are the turnbuckles. They're made from chain links from a 1/350 scale photoetched anchor that I made. Note the big gun on the starboard side:

(http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/ppet1392.JPG)

Here's a better view of the "Gotha Buster". It's a 4 barrel small caliber automatic Gatling gun powered by a reduction gear coupled with the engine. The gun was suggested by Georges Guynemer as a way to destroy the large Gotha bombers quickly. While the bullets were of small caliber, the gun was able to deliver a large mass of bullets to the target in a very short period of time (I need a better name for the gun, guys!). The gun had a tendency to jam if more than 80 rounds were fired, so the magazine was limited to 80 rounds. A single standard aircraft machine gun was mounted in front of the pilot, with a much slower firing rate but more ammunition:

(http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/ppet1395.JPG)

Here's a front view with a 1/72 figure for scale:

(http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/ppet1396.JPG)

And here are a couple of "beauty shots":

(http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/ppet1401.JPG)

and this one shows the sun shining through the rudder - completely unplanned and unexpected, but it makes it look like it's really made of fabric:

(http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/ppet1404.JPG)

I added a PE gunsight ring to the center gun, but it's not visible in any of the photos I took today.

I have a few more images here. (http://149.142.139.138/web/Images/MS/)

Overall, this was a really fun project, with few - if any - serious problems.

Frank
That's lovely! Superb model, really!!!
So...

VIVE LE PETIT PET ET VIVE LA REPUBLIQUE !!!

 
Title: Re: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: PALG on April 27, 2019, 09:11:25 am
Quote
wondered what if the Coanda powerplant had been developed past 1910? It wouldn't have displaced piston engines due to the high heat and fuel consumption. But what if in 1915, Messrs. Morane & Saulnier had developed an engine with a performance that rivaled or surpassed existing designs? For one, you wouldn't need an interrupter for the guns

I wondered exactly the same thing some years ago... well, here's a bomber (which has now a fighter to escort it)
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...11139&hl=coanda (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=11139&hl=coanda)

Nice petit pet, really!!!

Hi

Always interested in Coanda, I came across  this very old reference to an even older build you did.  the link is dead now - can you share any pics of yr coanda-engine bomber ? 
Title: Re: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: stevehed on April 28, 2019, 04:59:51 pm
First time I've seen this and well impressed. Plausible design and believable back story. There was a WW1 rocket propelled Komet type whif on ATF which I quite fancied a try at but has unfortunately become defunct. My memory of the build was an Airfix Albatros DV, converted to monoplane using the top wing, about six rockets mid fuselage, skid landing gear and a Doodlebug type launching platform. No pictures but for what's worth this is the link.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/airfixtributeforum/airfix-2012-what-if-gb-fred-s-z-i-e-4-build-t36703.html#p511277
Still on the to do list and can I second the request to see the Coanda bomber if possible.

Regards, Steve
Title: Re: Morane-Saulnier "Petit Pet"
Post by: Dizzyfugu on June 24, 2019, 12:01:01 am
That turned out nicely!  :thumbsup: