Well gents,
After a 4-year hiatus, I can again deal with glue and paint fumes so the modeling begins afresh. :party: No, I won't go into details, suffice it to say it was Dr's Orders.
To start things off, I'd love to do a Sabre in what-if markings. Lucky Model has Academy 1/48 Sabres for about $10US so I picked up a couple. Simple but effective schemes sound the most appealing at this point. Apart from EDSG/Sky/Roundels, I'm blank on ideas.
What were the Luftwaffe's Marine F-104's painted in (the greys)? Perhaps that with a red port horizontal stab, a black tail, and a yellow starboard horizontal stab?
Thoughts, comments? B) B) B)
:cheers:
Daryl J., fogged in with cold medicine............... :zzz: :dum:
PS: I did a search and all of Jennings Sabres are gone save for the very cool P-86E. Those all got missed.
RAF Aden (sort-of) scheme - Glossy Lt Stone/Dk Earth over Azure Blue. Decals from.... well anywhere really.
RAE - Raspberry Ripple scheme
Mexican - Use Vietnam tan and greens, but in much thinner bands. Decals from Albatros
Marineflieger would be great Bassaltgrau uber Silbergrau mit Leuchtorange bands on the drop tanks & wingtips..... Mmmmm ! :wub: Decals from a passing Hasegawa Starfighter could be made to fit
USAF/USN Aggressor - go nutz ! schemes, patterns decals all available relatively easily. Think of those wild schemes they painted the early Navy A-4's in....
Danish (Late) - really tired & patchy overall faded Olive Drab
Can't think of anythin' else just now as I'm at the end of a night watch and even the little pixie in the flying jacket that lives inside my head has gone to sleep ! :wacko:
I H-G
What are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels? The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.
I'm gravitating towards doing a British squadron hack in gray/gray/Post Office red with standard blue/white/red roundels.
The simplistic scheme would augment the Sabre's already elegant lines.
My alternative is Basaltgrau/Weissaluminium/Leuchtorange in German markings.
The tertiary choice as of now is a French aircraft in Mirage III blue. :wub:
All plausible, all never happened. :party: :party: :party:
Daryl J.
QuoteWhat are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels? The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.
Two schemes
Darker Greys
Dark Sea Grey over tops of wings and fuselage extending down the fuselage to a point just below the cable ducts.
Barley Grey under the fuselage
Light Aircraft Grey under the wings and stabilizers.
Lighter Greys
Medium Sea Grey over tops of wings and upperfuselage to a mid point at the wing/fuse joint.
Barley Grey lower fuselage and fin
Light Aircraft Grey under the wings and stabilizers.
HTH
I H-G
Sukhoi Su-86, with Soviet engine and with machine guns replaced by heavy cannon.
Apparently it almost happened. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-7) :ph34r:
My own ideas for a modern F-86 would have been for a new build airframe with current technology being applied for creating a better aircraft. Some of these things would be:
- One piece canopy similar to what is found on the F-16 or F-22.
- Switching to a turbofan engine such as the F404 to provide better performance, increased range (or loiter time), and fuel economy.
- Increase the number of available underwing stores pylons to at least three per wing.
- Add provisions for air to air refueling by flying boom, hose and drogure, or both.
- Add provisions for wing tip mounted air to air missile launch rails for ATAS, IRIS, Magic, or Sidewinder missiles.
- Switch the gun armamant to a pair of 20mm - 30mm cannons which would be sufficient for dealing with most air and ground targets.
The aircraft should be stressed to allow carriage of larger fuel tanks as well as the usual bombs and missiles. As a close support aircraft it would not really be necessary to add a fire control radar but there would be a need for INS and GPS related systems to keep the pilot informed about where they are on the battlefield. I would imagine that the aircraft would be smart enough to allow employment of precision guided weapons such as the AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-114 Hellfire, Brimstone, as well as laser guided bombs. Other ordnance combinations for close air support would include standard general purpose bombs, fire bombs, gun pods, rockets, and cluster bombs. This would be a light and agile close support aircraft without all of the trappings currently associated with the current crop of wunder waffen such as the F-16, F-18, F-15, F-22, and F-35.
North American proposed a TF30-powered (and therefore enlarged) FJ-4B for the competition that led to A-7 Corsair. That could be the basis for the modern F-86.
Unable to find further info on it, what I have in mind is this:
1. turbofan engine (either TF30 or re-engined with a more powerful/reliable type such as Spey TF41)
2. 2 x Mk 12 20mm cannons
3. three hardpoints under each wing (AIM-9s under midwing hardpoints and bombs/rockets/ASMs under others)
4. centreline under fuselage attachment point for FLIR or laser designator pod (this one is not my speculation but my imagination- I didn't like A-7's having to devote a store hardpoint just to use a FLIR pod)
Of course, compatibilities with AGM-65 and glide/guided bombs would be followed by those of Litening pod and Brimstone missiles as they became available......
What I'm unable to imagine is how much the airframe would be enlarged as a result of using TF30 or TF41...... does anyone have an idea on that?
Or simply a modernised FJ-4B with the afore-mentioned descriptions 2. to 4. and J52-P-8A or J52-P-408 turbojet (or even, like jeffryfontaine said, F404-GE-100D turbofan) engine......
Quote from: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 PMNorth American proposed a TF30-powered (and therefore enlarged) FJ-4B for the competition that led to A-7 Corsair. That could be the basis for the modern F-86.
Quote from: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 PM]What I'm unable to imagine is how much the airframe would be enlarged as a result of using TF30 or TF41...... does anyone have an idea on that?
Your suggestion to use the TF30 or the TF41/Spey in the F-86 airframe would be great if you are going to perform a scale-o-rama using a 1/32nd F-86 kit as a 1/48th scale subject. Both of these engines are far too large for a standard F-86/AF-1/FJ airframe. The J52 or the preferred F404 would be much better suited to the F-86 airframe since they are signaficantly smaller in size. Your suggestion reminds me of the F-86C/YF-93A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93) which was developed to compete against the F-90 and F-88 and used a different engine and it was also fitted with dual wheels all around due to the increased weight of the aircraft. I believe that the F404 would be much easier to adapt to an airframe such as the F-86 when you consider the success that was had with the A-4 Skyhawk modernization that was undertaken by Singapore.
Quote from: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 PMcentreline under fuselage attachment point for FLIR or laser designator pod (this one is not my speculation but my imagination- I didn't like A-7's having to devote a store hardpoint just to use a FLIR pod)
Not a lot of room under the fuselage for anything since the main landing gear are in the way. The FLIR pod on the A-7 was a second generation sensor, the later third generation LANTIRN EO/FLIR/Radar systems developed for the F-15E are much smaller and could be adapted to the fuselage of the F-86 or be built into the airframe, perhaps a simple stretch of the fuselage by insterting a plug forward and aft of the wings would allow the incorporation of these systems as well as some additional fuel. The stretched fuselage would also be ideal for the addition of a second seat for another crewmember. Since this would be a close air support aircraft, the second set of eyeballs would be ideal for the forward air control mission as well as acquiring targets with the electro-optical weapons which would free the pilot to maneuver the aircraft.
Quote from: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 PMOf course, compatibilities with AGM-65 and glide/guided bombs would be followed by those of Litening pod and Brimstone missiles as they became available
The advantage of using the AGM-65 and other electro-optical guided weapons fitted with the standard TV or the IIR seeker could be used to acquire the target prior to launch. This was one of the hidden benefits of adding this type of weapon to older aircraftr such as the F-4, A-4, A-7 and the A-10, all of which had no dedicated electro-optical viewing system incorporated into the airframe using the TV, or IIR seeker as an ersatz FLIR or TV for the pilot.
Quote from: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 PM2 X Mk 12 20mm cannons
(From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mk_12_cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mk_12_cannon))"The Mk 12 was an advanced derivative of the wartime Hispano HS 404 that had been used on a variety of American and British fighter aircraft during World War." The ground and naval mounts for the Mk 12 20mm cannon required that the gunners administer lubricration oil or grease to the ammunition prior to firing otherwise the guns would jam. The aircraft mounts were apparently fitted with a lubrication oil resovoir that performed this same function. A friend of mine that actually fired these weapons during the Vietnam war had nothing good to say about them and described having to keep a bucket of lube oil and a paint brush nearby when firing to "baste" the ammunition as it was fed into the guns. Not the best choice for an aircraft weapon. I would imagine there are several better choices available now that would perform much better. Perhaps switching to a single 25mm - 30mm cannon would be better, dropping from two weapons to one since the performance and firepower available would be greater for the single weapon over a pair of 20mm cannons.
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 AM
Your suggestion to use the TF30 or the TF41/Spey in the F-86 airframe would be great if you are going to perform a scale-o-rama using a 1/32nd F-86 kit as a 1/48th scale subject. Both of these engines are far too large for a standard F-86/AF-1/FJ airframe. The J52 or the preferred F404 would be much better suited to the F-86 airframe since they are signaficantly smaller in size. Your suggestion reminds me of the F-86C/YF-93A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93) which was developed to compete against the F-90 and F-88 and used a different engine and it was also fitted with dual wheels all around due to the increased weight of the aircraft.
After hard brainstorming, I kind of think that maybe the size of YF-93 wouldn't look bad with the aerodynamic alterations of FJ-4B...... assuming that's as far as the enlargement goes.
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 AMNot a lot of room under the fuselage for anything since the main landing gear are in the way. The FLIR pod on the A-7 was a second generation sensor......
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 AMThe advantage of using the AGM-65 and other electro-optical guided weapons fitted with the standard TV or the IIR seeker could be used to acquire the target prior to launch. This was one of the hidden benefits of adding this type of weapon to older aircraftr such as the F-4, A-4, A-7 and the A-10, all of which had no dedicated electro-optical viewing system incorporated into the airframe using the TV, or IIR seeker as an ersatz FLIR or TV for the pilot.
Guess that'll do.
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 AM
I would imagine there are several better choices available now that would perform much better. Perhaps switching to a single 25mm - 30mm cannon would be better, dropping from two weapons to one since the performance and firepower available would be greater for the single weapon over a pair of 20mm cannons.
Dropping Mk 12 cannons, the VAL competition predated the development of Bushmaster cannon (a factor in my consideration during my previous post), so the North American entry might have to make do with Pontiac M39 20mm cannons (actually I found that these are used by F-86H) instead. Of course, later constructions might opt for a more powerful armament.
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 AM
The stretched fuselage would also be ideal for the addition of a second seat for another crewmember. Since this would be a close air support aircraft, the second set of eyeballs would be ideal for the forward air control mission as well as acquiring targets with the electro-optical weapons which would free the pilot to maneuver the aircraft.
For people who could use some reference, below is a TF-86F (with the second seat and the obligatory fuselage stretch).
Now that I come to think about it, a J52-powered F-1C (a.k.a. FJ-3, which is pretty much the properly-navalized Saber) would be visually-pleasing, too. Give it the same modification as the TF-86F......
I spent a few minutes this afternoon trying to create my interpretation of a modern F-86E/F fitted with a one piece windscreen/canopy.
The results are pleasing but I am starting to think that the AF-1 Fury would be a better choice due to the raised portion directly behind the canopy which was needed to fill in the blank space created by removing the original canopy outline and adding in the F-22 canopy.
Edit: Improved on the original drawing and increased the size slightly to allow better detail.
Quote from: Daryl J. on September 19, 2005, 08:08:50 PM
What are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels? The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.
I'm gravitating towards doing a British squadron hack in gray/gray/Post Office red with standard blue/white/red roundels.
The simplistic scheme would augment the Sabre's already elegant lines.
My alternative is Basaltgrau/Weissaluminium/Leuchtorange in German markings.
The tertiary choice as of now is a French aircraft in Mirage III blue. :wub:
All plausible, all never happened. :party: :party: :party:
Daryl J.
If your going RAF, how about putting it in wraparound DG/DSG & bombing it up? Low vis roundels in a Strike Command Squadron colours, rob the parts & decals from Revells Hunter FGA.9. Subtle whiff, without being too subtle but enought to make the casual observer scratch their heads.
I spent some more time this evening trying to create another of my interpretations of a modern F-86 fitted with a one piece canopy.
This time it started with an F-86H drawing and the canopy from an F-16 was blended into the fuselage. The area behind the canopy still required a larger fairing which again hints at maybe the AF-1 Fury would be a better choice again due to the raised portion directly behind the canopy which was needed to fill in the blank space created by removing the original canopy outline and adding in the F-16 canopy.
I've got the bits and pieces (at home, darn it) to combine a F-86H fuselage with the wings and tail surfaces of the FJ-4B. I could easily combine some more bits to add a more modern canopy. The deeper fuselage would definitely allow a dry F404 or F414.
What if sotoolslinger's Delta100 (see here (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22510.0.html)) needed a trial bird for the "new" delta wing first:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2FF86delta.jpg&hash=11bc2d6d486f0c187dfe8918fe86f745477d41cf)
Regards,
Greg
How about adding a T-tail, or maybe a tail set high up the fin? I'm not the biggest T-tail fan (ducks), but engineers were a Little skittish about tailless designs in the early days, & I think it might suit it.
For delta design with T-tail see :
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/nord1405.html (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/nord1405.html)! ;D
Regards,
EB
Ah, forgot about that one, thanks EB! Looks very similar to Gregs profile bash, in plan view at least.
There's another french plane from the mid-50's similar to the Delta 100 see :
http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/sud-est_durandal.php (http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/sud-est_durandal.php)
Regards,
EB
KJ if you check out my thread on the Delta 100 I blended the wing roots with tank halfs so it does actually pinch right about the middle of the wing. I actually thought about adding bulges towards the rear (conformal tanks :blink:) but I'm not doing it on my model. :rolleyes: ;D
Hmm, a delta Sabre and mentions of T-tails ...
In 1958, Canadair proposed a twin JT-12 strike aircraft -- the CL-76 -- using Sabre bits. That would give you something to do with those now-spare F-86 wings. Not sure what this beastie would've looked like but Canadair's Sabre-based bizjet was to have a T-tail.
Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit available to do a TF-86 in 1/48?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wingweb.co.uk%2Fwingweb%2Fimg%2F450-North_American_TF-86_Sabre.jpg&hash=e4c3aa7b989755fd1886fdfdc2f8aa9ebcaae3b3)
I have a hankering to try to do the CA-28 'Sabre Dingo' (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27140.0/) in Plastic:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FALT%2520RAN%2520FAA%2FCA-2875sqn2.jpg&hash=7424d90d4034a2de745002649783686527d010fd)
Regards,
Greg
Didn't Falcon do one in their 'Triple Conversion' series?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 27, 2010, 04:38:51 PM
Didn't Falcon do one in their 'Triple Conversion' series?
Not in 1/48 scale, Kit. I've got a couple of them in the 1/72 in the stash though. The PAK-20 book doesn't list one from any outfit either, but that doesn't mean there might not be one.
Whiffing Markings and Paint schemes for an F-86 is a tough job. As it is, just about every non-Warsaw Pact Air Force seems to have operated the plane in some version or another from its entry in US service until 1996 (when Bolivia retired its ex-Venezuelan Air Force F-86Fs). You might have to go anachronistic or something else clever.
Good Luck.
:cheers:
Does anybody have a closeup picture of the FJ-3's wing fold? I've been looking for one but been unable to find one.
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/ (http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/)
Like these?
Cheers,
Logan
Quote from: Logan Hartke on August 27, 2010, 09:41:02 PM
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/ (http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/)
Like these?
Cheers,
Logan
Thanks, they'll do nicely. I assume that the piece of timber isn't normal equipment though? ;)
I may have mentioned it before, but in the '60s there was a plan for a war emergency fighter based on stored F-86 airframes, with wing-mounted J85s and the fuselage given over to fuel. There was a similar proposal for the F-84F.
Chris
-----------------------------------
Aviation Resources (http://www.aircraftplans.info/aviationresources.html)
Quote from: GTX on August 27, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
I have a hankering to try to do the CA-28 'Sabre Dingo' (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27140.0/) in Plastic:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FALT%2520RAN%2520FAA%2FCA-2875sqn2.jpg&hash=7424d90d4034a2de745002649783686527d010fd)
Regards,
Greg
Would love to see the end product Greg :cheers:
M.A.D
Quote from: Chris707 on August 28, 2010, 06:12:06 PM
I may have mentioned it before, but in the '60s there was a plan for a war emergency fighter based on stored F-86 airframes, with wing-mounted J85s and the fuselage given over to fuel. There was a similar proposal for the F-84F.
Chris
-----------------------------------
Mmm, 1960s - "Dr. Strangelove", "Failsafe", Cuban Missile Crisis, exactly what sort of war were they contemplating? Or was this intended for the Mad Max airforce post-apocalypse? Seems to have been a bit of a disconnect there between planning and reality - not that isn't all that unusual... ;D
There is a thread on Secret Projects which makes mention of a Sabre-based attack aircraft in the configuration mentioned. A reply to the thread brings up the Canadair CL-76:
Quote"Canadair CL-76 -- Low-level tactical bomber. 1958. Used F-86 [CL-13] components. Two 2,900 lb (1,317 kg) st Pratt & Whitney JT-12s. Span 37 ft 1 in (11.3m); length 43 ft 7 in (13.28 m); height 14 ft 9 in (4.59 m)."
Source: p510 KM Molson & HA Taylor, Canadian Aircraft since 1909, Canada's Wings, 1982
The post goes on to mention that there are no images.
Quote from: GTX on August 27, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit available to do a TF-86 in 1/48?
Cap'n Greg, I did some diggin' for you on ARC and found out that an outfit called Fox 3 Studios does a 1/48 conversion for a TF-86. Costs 48$ US. For more details, see THIS THREAD (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=178690).
Said thread also contains a pic of a Sabre Dog twin-seater. Jolly nice work!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi9.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa99%2Fcmdrcody%2FIMG022-2.jpg&hash=7f045beff468ae5114b01a2d2c00a376ea3c43f8)
For those who like 1/72, Airmodel does a vacu fuselage of the TF-86. CLICKY! (http://www.airmodel.de/product_info.php?language=en&info=p78_rf-86h-k---tf-86---ca-27.html&)
Wow, thanks - email sent to find out more.
Regards,
Greg
Quote from: ChernayaAkula on August 29, 2010, 09:38:51 PM
Said thread also contains a pic of a Sabre Dog twin-seater. Jolly nice work!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi9.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa99%2Fcmdrcody%2FIMG022-2.jpg&hash=7f045beff468ae5114b01a2d2c00a376ea3c43f8)
Doesn't THAT look the business? :thumbsup:
It has the 'essence of Whiffness' in that it looks so real you question whether it isn't!
I like the underfuselage Genie. Make you wonder why they bothered with the Falcons...
Contacted Gerry at Fox 3 Studios. A 1/48 TF-86 conversion is now on order!!!!
Great guy too - very prompt, professional service - highly recommended :thumbsup:. I also have a copy of his full catalogue of items if any one is interested. PM me your email and I will forward.
Regards,
Greg
The two-seat Dog is nice.
I think it would look good with the larger 'F-40' wing (slatted 6-3 wing with 12" tip extensions)
as fitted to the SAGE F-86Ls (rebuilt F-86D) and the final batch of FIAT built F-86Ks.
The Fuji T-1 could make a basis for a whiff 2 seat F-86 variant if you were willing to bash it a bit. It's kind of an F-86 itself, definately realted but with large portions of the airframe being re-designed including a completley new front end, wing & Orpheus engine.
Found a good online article about successful Soviet attempts to capture Sabres, including a snippet of an abortive attempt to reverse engineer it.
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/cit-wetterhahn.html?c=y&page=1 (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/cit-wetterhahn.html?c=y&page=1)
How about a Sabre with two engines like the Skyfox?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi19.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb169%2Fdwcsnake%2FMisc%2Fmystery0011.jpg&hash=cf90e8befae6e3d4d8c43a225be75cd5fe03c848)
Room in the nose for radar and fuel in the fuselage. Small Air Forces rebuilding their Sabres to last another 10 years. Lots of options, Hmmmm...
Funnily enough, I as reading about just such a beast on Secret Projects, albiet with underwing engines:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2727.msg155541.html#msg155541
No pics on that thread unfortunately, but there's some of an F-84 with the same configuration to give a good idea of what it would like:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4884.msg38668.html#msg38668
Figured I'd show my Idea for a Future Sabre:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb32%2FDonovan_NightHunter%2FFD%2520Scale%2FFutureSabre.png&hash=7e832e583f9a1996adaf819135673820c992f265)
Something different:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F640x480q90%2F145%2F76869744.jpg&hash=81bde715780814b92a6c7753d6c798af165e5a3e)
Quote
A rare picture of a CL-13 (a license built F-86 made by Canadair) Sabre being evaluated by the Israeli Air Force in the 1950's. The Israeli Air Force seen the great performance of the F-86, that they were planning to buy 24 of them. However, political issues and Arab opposition killed the purchase and decided to get the French made fighters like the Dassault Mystere instead.
[Source (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?220875-Concept-Canceled-Proposed-Rumored-Military-amp-Civilian-Projects/page10)]
I have that build in my stash, almost finish :banghead:
Gondor
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnavypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Fjetkayak.jpg%3Fw%3D949&hash=93198bf8a1c323866a1246f7e6b3f91285d44cc4) (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak-2/)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnavypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Fjetkayak2.jpg%3Fw%3D949&hash=4c578d64113952aab68a06bc52b24cd3b4c0a9eb) (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak2-2/)
Lt Horatio Gates "Bud" Sickel & Pilots of VF-5A, FJ-1 Fury, NAS San Diego, March 1948 (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak-2/)
Cheers,
Logan
Why not make a forward swept wing f-86? :rolleyes:
Wonderfull photograph ;D ;D
Thanks Logan :thumbsup:
wonder what a sabre with a Merlin or Griffin engine would look like
Funny you should ask that --
sometime ago after reading a book put out by the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust called the Rolls Royce Crecy (V-12 2-Stroke engine about the same size as a Merlin), I came up with this because I was looking for an airframe that could handle 8000 hp.
The idea is the engine is where the jet engine really is and the prop was driven by an extension shaft. Because the exhaust exited through an exhaust turbine, the exhaust exits through the tail pipe. One of the layout schemes shown in the book has the radiator core surrounding the engine supercharger, my idea was the hot cooling air exits outside of the exhaust tail pipe.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvillage.photos%2Fimages%2Fuser%2F8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f%2F397246ac-6492-47a8-bfd4-ed72a88800c7.JPG&hash=0de5620b925e62e9b8abcf9c09bea5af18ad4f91)
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I would love to see a forward swept wing Sabre.
Quote from: Flyer on August 18, 2014, 12:49:30 PM
Very nice. Being 2-stroke and shaft driven it would have a distinctive noise :blink:
Like 12 giant flying Whipper Snippers in close formation!
Subtle crossings between SMB2 and Sabre.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1080.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj340%2Fysi_maniac%2FDrawing%2FSMB2-Sabre_cross.jpg&hash=698849d639fa0a96976d92bc9544fea7b37a13dc) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SMB2-Sabre_cross.jpg.html)
I always thought the rocket tray on the F-86d was a cool feature. 70mm rockets hidden in the fuselage.
Think about a low cost stealth demonstrator. The engine is completely shielded from radar, the intake just needs planform alignment and a nice blended trapezoidal wing. Tailless or v tails.
The Super Mystere also had a retractable rocket launch rack (rarely used, if at all, though), PLUS guns...
A rocket-pack is great as long as works correctly. ;D
Premature firing during test of a proposed 3-row rocket-pack, 9-9-55, pilot was Bob Hoover.
F-86D/K/L: Part One, Ray Wagner, Ginter 1999
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.smugmug.com%2FBTS-2%2Fi-QkxZhQ4%2F0%2Fcf393d4e%2FL%2FF86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_01-L.png&hash=adc49d1b83a25b66f926ec59b0915e665de0ba44)
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(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.smugmug.com%2FBTS-2%2Fi-9qj6pfh%2F0%2Fdcfc14ce%2FL%2FF86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_04-L.png&hash=8087efc06cd1fb6d788acf1f0e164c64fab48491)
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Well, that would have made for an interesting flight! :o
Fascinating, thanks Jon :thumbsup:
I'm actually surprised that "problem" didn't have more serious consequences :o
Hmmmm, yes. A flat front tyre (or even missing undercarriage) would have made for an interesting landing.
Seeing as the pilot was Bob Hoover it was probably a matter of "Aw, sh_t" and he
got on with landing the plane. Bob was a truly incredible pilot, possibly the best
US pilot ever.
Having seen Bob Hoover do his thing with the Aero Commander, like landing from a loop with NEITHER engine running from the bottom of the loop, I'm surprised he even noticed. ;D
It probably flew better with that extra intake area anyway. ;)
P-86 wearing Spanish Republic Air Force markings during Korean War.
(https://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P86-SRAF.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P86-SRAF.jpg.html)
Have we seen the biplane Sabre before?
(https://i.imgur.com/5ZcLzvn.jpg)
We have. But that was more than ten years ago. :o
I even tried building one. LINK! (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=22368.0) May have to pry this one from the Shelf of Doom. Might be difficult finding the bits and bobs again, though, after all those years..... :banghead:
Yes Moritz, you really SHOULD dig it out again, what you've done on it so far looks magnificent! :thumbsup:
I have just discovered this rare picture of the RAAF's first attempt at an AEW aircraft. The project was cancelled when flight testing showed a few instability issues.
(https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/75434_1598142267.jpg)
https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/75434_1598142267.jpg
;D ;D
LOL!
I can just see you building that in the near future, and then claiming 'Well it must be right, I've got photographic proof!' ;D ;) :thumbsup:
I should go and see if I can get a shot of a MiG or SAAB AEW version...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/41160+Tikkakoski/@62.387589,25.6799855,90m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4685a1ae97b8957b:0xa0146d8a39460c0!8m2!3d62.3891662!4d25.6466846
This is as close as it is, considering l could find no F-100 topic...
I was flabbergasted today. Strangely enough l had never noticed the Super Sabre had not only wingfences but they looked like someone had welded some pylon backwards...
https://imgur.com/4BtmRGR
Hopefully the picture will show up with the relevant shadows. So, putting a Sidewinder or rocket pod up there is pedestrian. I nominate the triple American rocket launcher from WW ll. Mounted with two up and one tube lower. One outward gains external antennas as the jammer pod, other two carry chaff and flares.
Spanish Sabre in Vietnam.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/Sabre_spain_seaCamo.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/e1644bb4-8ab9-43b1-b966-e4a51c287fcc)