Shackleton MR 3, ski equipped.
By the mid-1960's there was increasing worry that Soviet submarines, especially the latest ballistic and cruise missile types, would use ice fields to hide from NATO surface and aviation assets. It was proposed that certain ASW aircraft could be equipped with skis and use dipping sonar to locate, track, and if required engage subs operating under the ice.
Nine Shackleton MR 3's were equipped with skis, a type 194 dipping sonar from the Wessex helicopter, a chain hoist system in the weapons bay to vertically deploy Mark 30 homing torpedoes, and an auger and gear to cut holes in the ice for sonar and weapons employment. Trials were openly messaged to the Soviets, including a hyped "They can't hide here" segment on BBC, but the concept was fraught with challenges, especially in finding smooth enough ice flows to land on, but several pings heard on subs coming out of Murmansk gave the Nothern Fleet much consternation.
The Kit: 1/72 Frog Shackelton MR 3, 1967 boxing. (Remember extra credit is given for Frog kits...right?) ;)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/NHDKXS.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/Vi9TT9.jpg)
Dave ill have to consult with the colleague about the extra credit ;D ;D
As for the kut itself...super cool 😎 😀
Sounds like quite a project! I'll be watching.
I love that the "Air-Sea Rescue Shackleton" is shown blowing up a U-boat! :wacko: :wacko:
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 18, 2024, 07:38:31 PMI love that the "Air-Sea Rescue Shackleton" is shown blowing up a U-boat! :wacko: :wacko:
Ensures they'll have
people survivors to rescue... ;D
Quote from: Wardukw on November 18, 2024, 06:26:56 PMDave ill have to consult with the colleague about the extra credit ;D ;D
As for the kut itself...super cool 😎 😀
Of course, builds based on Novo reissues of Frog kits will earn DOUBLE credits. ;D
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 18, 2024, 07:38:31 PMI love that the "Air-Sea Rescue Shackleton" is shown blowing up a U-boat! :wacko: :wacko:
It's as good as the early Airfix Buccaneer cover showing one flying across the deck of a carrier while a flak-damaged one is landing and a Zero is going down in flames in the background. ;D
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/8/9/3/1/a6623106-161-AIRFIX-72%20Blackburn%20NA39%20Buccaneer%20box%20art.jpg?d=1395761225)
Quote from: Weaver on November 19, 2024, 02:30:01 AMQuote from: Old Wombat on November 18, 2024, 07:38:31 PMI love that the "Air-Sea Rescue Shackleton" is shown blowing up a U-boat! :wacko: :wacko:
It's as good as the early Airfix Buccaneer cover showing one flying across the deck of a carrier while a flak-damaged one is landing and a Zero is going down in flames in the background. ;D
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/8/9/3/1/a6623106-161-AIRFIX-72%20Blackburn%20NA39%20Buccaneer%20box%20art.jpg?d=1395761225)
Plus the landing director is standing in the middle of the wooden flight deck. I love that image, it's one of the finest to ever have been produced.
A Shackleton on skis - this makes me wonder what was the heaviest plane ever to successfully operate on skis on ice?
Quote from: Weaver on November 19, 2024, 02:30:01 AMIt's as good as the early Airfix Buccaneer cover showing one flying across the deck of a carrier while a flak-damaged one is landing and a Zero is going down in flames in the background. ;D
And not only has he missed all the wires, he's not got the hook down anyway!
Quote from: Joe C-P on November 19, 2024, 04:16:09 AMA Shackleton on skis - this makes me wonder what was the heaviest plane ever to successfully operate on skis on ice?
Don't know about the heaviest, but C-130s have done it for decades, and they're WAY heavier than a Shackleton. Don't know exactly what weights they've taken off at from ice, but since the C-130's empty weight is 75,800lb, it's MTOW is 155,000lb and a Shack's MTOW is only 86,000lb, it's very hard to believe they haven't routinely done it at over 100,000lb.
We know that the C-17 Globemaster lands on ice very regularly and that weights far more than an ol C-130 but i never seen skis on em so I'll go with the Charlie aswell at this point .
I do know that ya can't leave a C-17 in the same spot for to long as it's so heavy it's starts to slowly sink ;D
Airbus A340-300 and Boeing 787-9 airliners have landed at 'Wolf's Fang" an upscale adventure camp for tourists west of Queen Maud Land. Other large airplanes that have reached Antarctic ice runways include the Ilyushin Il-76, Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules, Lockheed P-3 Orion, Boeing 757/767 and Airbus A319.
I don't know the exact landing weights, but these are substantial airframes.
Sure, but they landed on their normal wheels. Joe C-P was asking about the heaviest plane to land on the ice using skis.
C-5's have also landed on the ice runway at McMurdo, but I think the C-130 is the largest ski equipped aircraft (happy to be corrected)
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Galaxy_Antarctica.jpg
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 19, 2024, 11:04:20 AMSure, but they landed on their normal wheels. Joe C-P was asking about the heaviest plane to land on the ice using skis.
Sorry! Typical me, didn't read the question properly.
Why my mind continues to read the title of this topic as "SHARK on skis" ? :o
Looking forward to this one. The Shack will look great with skis attached.
Quote from: loupgarou on November 19, 2024, 01:06:54 PMWhy my mind continues to read the title of this topic as "SHARK on skis" ? :o
Mine keeps going towards an ice fishing shack on skis
Quote from: scooter on November 19, 2024, 01:37:47 PMQuote from: loupgarou on November 19, 2024, 01:06:54 PMWhy my mind continues to read the title of this topic as "SHARK on skis" ? :o
Mine keeps going towards an ice fishing shack on skis
You mean using the hole ment for the retractable radar and having a dipping sonar similar to those used on helicopters.
Quote from: McColm on November 19, 2024, 03:56:26 PMQuote from: scooter on November 19, 2024, 01:37:47 PMQuote from: loupgarou on November 19, 2024, 01:06:54 PMWhy my mind continues to read the title of this topic as "SHARK on skis" ? :o
Mine keeps going towards an ice fishing shack on skis
You mean using the hole ment for the retractable radar and having a dipping sonar similar to those used on helicopters.
No, this is what I mean
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/IceShantiesForSturgeonSpearingLakeWinnebago.jpg/580px-IceShantiesForSturgeonSpearingLakeWinnebago.jpg)
A literal ice fishing shack
I'm going with C-130 but the Shack will look cool.
I'll admit..seeing a Sharc on ice would impress me more than a C-130 ...we've all seen the 130 on ice .
I went looking for pics of a C-133 on skis. I was convinced i'd find some.
I was wrong dammit. :angry:
Okay, let me clarify. I am asking about on sea ice, on top of ocean, not land covered by ice. The weight issue is different there.
In any case I would enjoy seeing big planes on skies!
And the big planes quoted were landing on prepared ice strips.
In this case it's landing on an unprepared ice field.
I suppose the first important thing to know is the ice thickness, BEFORE attempting a landing.
Are there instruments able to measure this from the air, flying at xxx knots?
Quote from: zenrat on November 21, 2024, 02:07:44 AMI went looking for pics of a C-133 on skis. I was convinced i'd find some.
I was wrong dammit. :angry:
The C-133 sits VERY close to the ground. No room for skis, but the gear doors almost look like skis.
Quote from: loupgarou on November 21, 2024, 01:01:26 PMAnd the big planes quoted were landing on prepared ice strips.
In this case it's landing on an unprepared ice field.
I suppose the first important thing to know is the ice thickness, BEFORE attempting a landing.
Are there instruments able to measure this from the air, flying at xxx knots?
Lou the only way to test the ice thickness is usually with a team who land in a very small plane and drill a hole ...if it's an area where there's a base camp..be it from ship or by land ..same deal ..drill a hole if it's over water ...on land it's much easier to deal with ..lie on land is hard pack ya just have to make super it's not over permafrost..then things can get tricky .
Still tho..drill a hole with a auger bit and check it out .
I guess we're stuck calling it Shark or Sharklton now lol
Unboxing.
Well looks like the decals have seen better days. The decals are the same vintage as me- 1967 boxing.....
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/RMPfBW.jpg)
The Shackleton has been jokingly referred to as "100,000 rivets flying in close formation" and it likes they die makers at Frog got every one of them into the mold!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/jrkgxa.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/882kD9.jpg)
Now to get the parts to line up so you don't have to sand them all off!
As old as that is at 57 yrs old that's some damn nice molding ....I can seriously imagine that in 48th :wacko:
See my build of the Avro Leeds when referring to those %%$££&( rivets!
I sanded every one of them off and it took for EVER!
And that was just on the wings as well.
I did the same with an Airfix A-26... I have another couple to do and I've been putting it off for quite a while... :-\
Fond memories of building a Shack, looking forward to seeing this evolve
Quote from: loupgarou on November 21, 2024, 01:01:26 PMAnd the big planes quoted were landing on prepared ice strips.
In this case it's landing on an unprepared ice field.
I suppose the first important thing to know is the ice thickness, BEFORE attempting a landing.
Are there instruments able to measure this from the air, flying at xxx knots?
Another important factor is smoothness. A lot of Arctic ice
looks smooth from a few thousand feet, but on the ground the texture's anything from a cobbled street to an assault course. Some sort of LIDAR might be able to measure it, other than that, it's down to a low, slow pass and Mk.1 eyeball. Even then, lighting conditions are a big deal: the angle and direction of the sun relative to the ground texture will either emaphasise the latter or camouflage it.
It's a horrible kit to build. I've done two, albeit one was a salvage, and disliked them both. So much so I sold them all off last year.
Much as I love the Shackleton, the 3 is one I really dislike.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on November 22, 2024, 06:00:22 AMIt's a horrible kit to build. I've done two, albeit one was a salvage, and disliked them both. So much so I sold them all off last year.
Much as I love the Shackleton, the 3 is one I really dislike.
I've used a few myself, I haven't worked out how to get rid of the seem down the middle of the fuselage. PSR is needed to build something decent.
Thanks for all the words of (dis)couragement! Do help me, I do love these old kits.
Primer on. I have been doing more builds with the first coat of primer on unassembled.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/OjJ8zv.jpg)
I don't know what you folks are saying about poor fuselage alignment with this kit, it looks like things line up perfec.....hang on a minute.....
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/wICeCL.jpg)
Completely normal. Nothing that some clamps won't fix, after you have glued the rear part of the fuselage first. <_<
To have the bow of an Heller sailing ship join, I had once to drill a hole through it, and insert a bolt with its nut ;D . Obvioulsly I removed it after the glue had set. ;D
Wasn't the fuselage I had the most issues with, the engine fit is appalling and needed some serious surgery to get them to fit properly let alone align.
The wing spar helps fuselage alignment.
Interior parts need cleaning up especially around the cockpit area and nose wheel leg. Aftermarket parts are available for the Phase 3 (Vipers ) or you can use the Aeroclub AEW.2 conversion set which includes the guns in white metal.
Quote from: loupgarou on November 22, 2024, 03:00:42 PMTo have the bow of an Heller sailing ship join, I had once to drill a hole through it, and insert a bolt with its nut ;D . Obvioulsly I removed it after the glue had set. ;D
;D :bow: :bow: ;D
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 23, 2024, 05:02:40 AMQuote from: loupgarou on November 22, 2024, 03:00:42 PMTo have the bow of an Heller sailing ship join, I had once to drill a hole through it, and insert a bolt with its nut ;D . Obvioulsly I removed it after the glue had set. ;D
;D :bow: :bow: ;D
Total dedication to our art that is Chris mate 😀
Finally back at it. Assembly going on. This is not an easy kit for at least me.
Wooksta was not kidding about engine alignment! awful
This feels like a massive tail sitter, commencing ballasting.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/hddwy9.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/RJt9UD.jpg)
I decide to keep the rivets, gosh you can see them from 5 feet away!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/txkj7f.jpg)
Gah! I missed the wing spar! :banghead:
Always read your (faded, crumpled) instructions!
Fuselage glued together and wings already mounted. Debated ripping it apart, but too far into it.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/vrtT4A.jpg)
much putty around the engines. No it won't be a jet.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/ojTe2C.jpg)
Coming along Dave ...your getting there ;D
She's so far looking pretty good 👍
Looking good....rivets and all !
Given me an idea for a troop carrier or cargo version :thumbsup:
Hate is a strong word, but I really do not like this kit. Fought me at every step, poor fit, my mistakes, and had a catastrophic fall off the bench during the paint stage. If I finish this it will be out of spite rather than joy. Not what the hobby should be, but it can happen.
Figured a variation of the standard Shackleton scheme would be appropriate with more white on the upper surfaces.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/4L6vvY.jpg)
I really dislike it when that sort of thing happens; it makes it worse when it's of your own making! :angry: :banghead:
Still, it's coming along and looking good, Dave. :thumbsup:
Thats the spirit, when it is finished, you will be able to say.. "take that ya ......."
It does look the part Dave and good on ya for sticking with it mate 👍 😉
Quote from: buzzbomb on January 01, 2025, 08:36:02 PMThats the spirit, when it is finished, you will be able to say.. "take that ya ......."
Absolutely ;D
keep at 'er ! She looks great in that white scheme. And you know what Dexter Holland would say " You can do it ! "
Time to go skiing
Scratching up some skis from .020 styrene.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/DSwxiv.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/wKZN2E.jpg)
Quote from: Captain Canada on January 04, 2025, 06:52:38 AMkeep at 'er ! She looks great in that white scheme. And you know what Dexter Holland would say " You can do it ! "
The Offspring :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Cap'n
Quote from: sandiego89 on January 04, 2025, 09:11:18 AMTime to go skiing
Scratching up some skis from .020 styrene.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/DSwxiv.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/wKZN2E.jpg)
Yup this is official..gonna look damn good 👍 👌
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/Ra6Rvq.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/ii261b.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/hvWJNZ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/PPKoIQ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/Yr7F0c.jpg)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Great work Dave ..those look sweet ☺️
Well done :thumbsup:
I really like those skis :thumbsup:
Quote from: mat on January 04, 2025, 11:45:43 PMI really like those skis :thumbsup:
As do I :bow:
Now those are some SERIOUS skis! :o
But then they'd have to be with a Shack sitting on them. ;D
:thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 05, 2025, 02:58:18 AMNow those are some SERIOUS skis! :o
But then they'd have to be with a Shack sitting on them. ;D
😃😃
Massive decal disintegration, had to order some new ones from e-bay, fingers crossed they arrive in time.
Teaser shots of the skis.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/Y1fj1Y.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/8Aio0O.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/JgmLV4.jpg)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ;D
:thumbsup:
Skis look great. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
I'm just imagining how cool that would look sitting on a ice runway ...engines roaring for take off ;D ;D
Finished. Ended up printing the large wing roundel decals on my ink jet, didn't want to wait on ebay. Wanted to get this one done, my least favorite kit in my last 30 builds or so. White, rivets, poor fit, lost interest, my mistakes, a drop, decals disintegrated- fought me every step.
Ski equipped Shackleton Mr3, under ice pinging of Soviet subs.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/bHyS0B.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/z4AgHY.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/OgiLFj.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/RlLsmK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/KSx0M2.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/JM1syK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/STAikK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/JM1syK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/IVI5Ud.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/X9ckxw.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/922/ZA6tFp.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/923/FTvH16.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q70/924/U2h6jj.jpg)
Out fecking standing Dave ..totally love that bud 👍 ❤️
Looks good - you beat it in the end! * :thumbsup:
*there's a lot to be said for bl00dy-mindedness, sometimes. ;)
Cool! :mellow:
:wub: :wub:
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
Beautiful build :thumbsup: . And, nothwistanding your experience, is giving me desire to build the one I have. <_<
Looks good :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Looks really good - well worth the fight! :thumbsup:
Quote from: loupgarou on January 13, 2025, 07:03:31 AMBeautiful build :thumbsup: . And, nothwistanding your experience, is giving me desire to build the one I have. <_<
Thanks, may the force be with you! I have a soft spot for old, cheap, kits, but it was a tough one, but I might have some PTSD from the rivets and fit.
Thank you everyone.
Nice work ! She really looks the part. Love the big boots, be perfect for the ice and snow !
Nice one - that looks great! :thumbsup:
Despite all the stress you have made an old kit look brilliant
Love those skis :wub: :wub: :wub:
Mog
>^-.-^<
Like it.. Well done
Great idea and a great build! :wub: :thumbsup:
Very impressive :thumbsup: