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Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Aircraft => Topic started by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:05:09 AM

Title: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:05:09 AM
Challenging all what mojo is by giving this project it's own thread. Some of you may have seen the start of it, in my >>blog<< (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?msg=1054696), but for you who haven't, it's another reworked old build that's been sitting in a cardboard box for some twenty years or more. Thirtyfive in this case, at least.

The start kit is this:

(https://www.oldmodelkits.com/jpegs/r/Revell%20H131-100%20J35.JPG)

The kit design actually is as old as the aircraft itself, originating back in 1957 according to Scalemates. I bought one when I was about nine, and it was my first Swedish jet fighter, having built mainly props before that. I remember it being a reasonably simple build (as one can assume from the limited no of parts) but also that I really liked playing with the model. I looked fast and agile, much like the real J35F's flying from the nearby F13 Wing.
Eventually, the model got left behind in a car on a hot summers day, and sadly, the resulting shapeshift was far beyond repair. I replaced it with Airfix Drakens, but I never really liked the flattened shape of the Airfix canopy and quite a few years later, when coming across another Revell kit, I bought another one to build just for nostalgia. And that is where I left off.

Anyway - The kit is the only mainstream plastic Draken in 1/72 that is featuring the early short exhaust and old fin type of the early J35A, and recently, I came across someone selling one. The same chap also sold a Heller Draken kit, and that, in turn, is the only mainstream kit of a two seater, even if it's the Danish longtail TF-35 variant and not the Swedish Sk35C. However, one could maybe combine the two, so I bought them reasonably cheaply, actually, and then put them to one side in order to not interfere with current projects, among them a number of Swedish SAABs but also the almost complete Danish trio.

As if.. :rolleyes:

Mulling about the possibility to build another early J35 version, I dug out the old built Revell Draken, and had a look. Initially, I have to admit, I thought that the easiest way would probably be to just steal the fin to add to a better kit, then somehow modifying any leftover canopy and create a J35B as almost every piece of the old Revell kit seemed wrong. But having a second look, I thought to myself - why not give it a go?
It's all but impossible to find any pictures of built Revell kits, probably because they're so awful, by I've manage to find this, very very well built one

(https://files.ifokus.se/u2/ec7dcb7a675648cc87f91bf1a68d529c/default/)

Comparing to a photo of the real thing..

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Saab_J_35A-01.jpg)

..if looking carefully, one might see the following most glaring discrepancies:


However, having reshaped the wingtips, pried off the tail cone, to shorten it significantly from the joint side, just to then reattach and file the joint into shape, replaced the antenna with a plasticard one made from a Hasegawa template and finally replaced the entire nose with an old Heller Mirage III nose scavenged from the parts bin, PSR'ed into place, its suddenly not looking that bad anymore, is it?

image0.jpeg

image1.jpeg

Admittedly, I've given the model a rather thorough PSR while at it, and in addition to that, it's gotten a pylon and a 1200 litre fuel tank, like the ones carried by the JAS39 Gripen. In reality, the Swedish Drakens only ever flew with the standard 530 litre one, but I'm just not that keen to go all RW, am I? And the Danes used these tanks (SAAB actually bought back old Danish tanks for the first Gripens), and you can never get enough fuel into a fighter jet!
There's still a few things to sort, such as the overhang on the tail where the brake chute is stowed, the afterburner cooling intakes (barely visible on the photo above) and a small intake on the far side of the ridge, behind the cockpit. Also, there's the PN-50 navigation system antenna just behind the nosewheel, the pitots and some other smallish bits and bobs, not to mention weapon pylons and loadout, but the general shape is unexpectedly there, and I'm more pleased that I'd imagined when getting to it a few days ago. Happy chappy!  :thumbsup:



Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:22:01 AM
And, as I'm sure our dear Mr Rheged would agree - a model without a backstory is only half built. So here goes a draft:

The long life of the early J35A Drakens
Already within a year after the first flight of the SAAB 29 Tunnan in 1948, the next generation of jet fighter was being put into development. While the Tunnan certainly was a major leap ahead in comparison to the Vampires they were to replace, the Royal Swedish Air Force was sorely aware that much more challenging opponents were in the curtains.
The target for the engineering team at SAAB was an entirely new aircraft, forming the airborne part of a new, semiautomatic combat control system, the STRIL60, that was to be able to defeat fast, high flying opponents in all weathers and at all times during the day and year. To reach these targets, the new fighter would have to be solidly supersonic and equipped with a radar to, regardless of weather or lighting conditions, be able to independently complete the intercept once vectored into the general vicinity of the opponent. On top of this, the emerging threats from the new cold war meant that the new aircraft would have to be independent of big air bases, rather optimised to disperse and operate from remote road bases and small airfields for an extended period of time. To make this even remotely possible from a Swedish financial perspective, the aircraft would have to be relatively small, manned by a single aircrew and also be maintainable by a relatively small team of conscript technicians, lead by a single professional technical officers or NCO's.

The design team, lead by aeronautical engineer Erik Bratt, started from research by the German engineer Alexander Lippisch on delta wings, and from 1951, one of Lippisch's students, Hermann Behrbohm, was attached to the project team. In 1955, the first prototype of the new SAAB 35 took to the air and in 1959, the first serially produced aircraft rolled out of the SAAB factory in Linköping. Within a year, the first squadron at the F13 Wing in nearby Norrköping was converting from the J29A Tunnan to the new J35A Draken. Tactical testing and development commenced at F13, but soon it was found that performance was severely restricted above 13 000 m. The reason was some lack of thrust from the existing RM6B/EBK65 combination (a slightly improved RR Avon Mk48A paired with a locally designed afterburner) and lead to the development of a new, longer afterburner, causing an extension of the tailcone and necessitating the characteristic spur wheel installation of the later Drakens.

During 1960-1961, 90 J35A's were built, and this new afterburner, the EBK 66, was introduced in production from serial no 35066, giving significantly more thrust and less supersonic drag, in particular at high altitudes. The first 65 airframes weren't rebuilt, however, and officially, these two physically different variants were designated J35A1 and J35A2, but in service, they were referred to as J35 "short" and "long", respectively.
Of these, serial no's 35008-35040 were delivered without radar as the planned, domestically developed radar wasn't ready. Instead they featured the same reflection gunsight as the J29 Tunnan. From 35041, however, a somewhat simpler radar than originally specified was installed, bought from Thomson CSF in France. This was basically a somewhat glorified gun ranging radar, but it could also be used to assist in targeting the IR missile in worse weather, but not to search for targets independently.
As the STRIL communications link also wasn't ready in time, all J35A's would lack the voiceless command link, instead having to rely on verbal communication via radio from the combat control centers, dug deep in the Swedish bedrock.

In the meantime, missile development was ongoing and a prototype missile, the Rb321, was tested from groundbased launchers. The progress was however not quite as desired, so eventually, an offer from the US for AIM-9B Sidewinders was received and accepted, leading to the termination of the Rb321 development before any air launches were made. However, integration of the AIM-9B would come first during 1963, so in the meantime, the two fixed Aden cannons was the only armament available.
The only store to be carried in the meantime was a single 530 litre drop tank on a centerline pylon. Once the Sidewinders were available, however, either two of them could be carried, one under each outer wing in combination with the drop tank, or two more missiles could replace the tank on an inverted Y pylon on the centerline. Also, six pairs of 13,5 cm Bofors attack rockets could be fitted on rails under the outer wings, giving a rudimentary if effective strike capability.

25 early short and radarless Drakens were taken back by SAAB already during 1961 for modification to unarmed two seater trainers. This was an afterthought by the RSwAF. The old and experienced test pilots at SAAB had deemed the flight characteristics of the new fighter good enough for "any reasonably trained fighter pilot" to handle solo, but the Air Force soon found that to be somewhat optimistic in practice. The unarmed twoseater was dubbed Sk35C (the "B" denomination already being occupied by the properly radar equipped follow-on to the "A" already in progress) and designed to easily be reconfigured back into a J35A armed fighter, should the need arise. 
In 1963, following the missile integration, some radar installations where such was missing, and some other minor upgrades, all remaining J35A's were reassigned from F13 to F16, in Uppsala north of Stockholm, as F13 were taking on newbuilt J35B's. The J35A's would remain at F16, together with the Sk35C-equipped OCU, until replaced in 1977 by the final newbuild Draken version, the J35F. By then, they had gained a small forward looking IR camera under the nose that integrated into the sight, created a reasonable night fighter capability. When phased out, most of the remaining A's were put in storage.

During the 1960's and 1970's, the European peace movement had been heavily infiltrated by KGB and the Soviet support had activated several European left extremist terror groups, such as the Rote Armee Fraktion in West Germany and the Brigata Rossi in Italy. Also, regular spy activities were high and in several countries bordering the Baltic, Soviet incursions were made by small submersibles, possibly landing and recovering agents and sabotage teams. Following the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 and then the fall of the Shah in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Soviets, apparently encouraged by their successes, went on an offensive across the board. Large, aggresive Warsaw pact exercises were held, at least yearly, and in the early 1980's, these tended to include practice large air assaults across the Baltic sea, targeting not only the NATO countries, but also Sweden.
These events in combination with the generally more unruly situation between the superpowers led to Sweden reconsidering the military cutbacks decided during the 1970's, instead rapidly rearming itself. As a consequence, several air force fighter wings were reestablished, and older aircraft were taken out of storage to fill out the new squadrons, including the 23 remaining short tailed J35A's. On reactivation, these aircraft were upgraded with the improved radar of the J35F and sights, thereby not only finally getting fully integrated in the combat control system, but also gaining the capability for collision course intercepts with the Rb27/28 SARH/IR Falcon missiles in addition to Sidewinders. Also, they gained the Hughes IRST unit from the J35F2, as these had proven very well working, in particular against low flying targets. However, these older Drakens still only had three hardpoints, of which one usually was occupied by a new larger drop tank, now containing 1200 litres and borrowed from the Danish SAAB 35XD design. Also, like their J35F sisters, they lost the port cannon to make room for the new missile control electronics.

The short A's went back to their former home in Uppsala, joining the technically very similar Sk35C's at the J35 OCU and forming the 161st fighter sqn, F16 Wing, flying alongside the J35F's of the 162nd and 163rd sqns. Having reached operational status, they were assigned to the low altitude air defence of the greater Stockholm area, and in wartime, they would have been accompanied by the Sk35C's, who got a similar system upgrade and would have formed the 164th sqn in time of war. The remaining long J35A's joined the after upgrading very similar J35B's at F18 Wing, south of Stockholm.

A few years later, when it became apparent that the JAS39 development was running very late indeed, a larger upgrade programme for the Drakens was rolled out. This retrofit was primarily intended for the J35D/F models, creating the J35J interceptor and included significantly better radars and electronics but also some extra fuel capacity by making the outer wing pylons wet. Also, an extra hardpoint for an AIM-4 missile was added under each air intake, increasing the possible missile armament by one third, or allowing for significantly better time on station when carrying four drop tanks while still fielding missiles. While not extending the full rebuild to the old J35A's and B's, these extra missile stations were carried over also to the older Drakens still in service, finally providing a credible second attack capability.
However, as the first Gripens finally entered service in the late 1990's, these the least capable and now forty-year-old Drakens were the first to go, being replaced initially by slightly younger J35J sisters inherited from sqns converting to the JAS39, and later by new Gripens, as they became available.



Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 04, 2024, 09:28:37 AM
How about a small canard "moustache"just behind each intake, preferably retractable? This was studied by SAAB as Mod 4 but was never implemented outside Whiffland. Can post a period drawing, if you like.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Rheged on October 04, 2024, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:22:01 AMAnd, as I'm sure our dear Mr Rheged would agree - a model without a backstory is only half built.


I agree completely!  And when the backstory is of  of this high standard, the model itself becomes even more interesting.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 11:11:47 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 04, 2024, 09:28:37 AMHow about a small canard "moustache"just behind each intake, preferably retractable? This was studied by SAAB as Mod 4 but was never implemented outside Whiffland. Can post a period drawing, if you like.

The Mod 4 was a "JA35" fighterbomber project designed as a stopgap option should the JAS39 Gripen be extremely delayed. It was designed from the basis of a rebuilt J35F, and that's not something I'd like to even try to build from this kit. To build a Mod 4, you're better off beginning with the lovely Hasegawa kit. And then, it could come out something like this:

IMG_0057.jpeg

I made this a few years ago with wings from the also awful Revell Gripen prototype kit. Not entirely as per the SAAB design sketch (I do have that and also a few others) but nice enough. It has been sitting around since then, waiting for a pitot and some loadout. Maybe now is the time?
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 04, 2024, 11:29:33 AM
Elegant! Yes, the Revell Draken is ..dubious, to say the least. I also converted one a while ago into a fighter-bomber/attack variant, esp. the tail area is far off. I like your wing shape(s)!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Captain Canada on October 04, 2024, 12:13:26 PM
That one looks good ! Especially in those colours. And thanks for the insight into the aeroplane and her kit forms !

Cheers
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 04, 2024, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 11:11:47 AMMaybe now is the time?

Yes, oh yes!

I was thinking of something a bit more what-if, as in what if they retrofitted a moustache to a late J35. But this will do very nicely indeed.

And the backstory. There are a lot of us backstory fanatics around, you know...
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 04, 2024, 12:58:42 PM
:thumbsup:
Now is definitely the time, as you're on a Draken kick at present - or the Drakens form a part of your current enthusiasm kick... ;)

'Carpe Jugulum', as someone once said.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 01:38:30 PM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on October 04, 2024, 12:58:42 PM'Carpe Jugulum', as someone once said.

Is that something I should be discussing with the lovely mrs P?  ;)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 01:43:37 PM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 04, 2024, 12:51:02 PMI was thinking of something a bit more what-if, as in what if they retrofitted a moustache to a late J35. But this will do very nicely indeed.

Have a careful look at the Mod 4 and you'll see the moustaches in their retracted position  ;)

Yeah,well.. maybe a backstory for the Mod 4 would be fun, but then I'd better give it a thread of its own. I shall mull on this.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 04, 2024, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 01:38:30 PM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on October 04, 2024, 12:58:42 PM'Carpe Jugulum', as someone once said.

Is that something I should be discussing with the lovely mrs P?  ;)
That's something for between you and her... 'Not my Department'. ;)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 03:27:58 PM
Edited the backstory a tad to create a more logical unit assignment.  Also contemplating to allow for some missile upgrades during the latter service years to improve on efficacy against low flying targets, but I think I'll have to try a missile on first to see if it works aesthetically.  One wouldn't want to disturb the very pleasing lines of this beauty.

Other than missile pylons, I actually now have completed the physical build, adding scoops, antennae and even the two pitots. As a first for me (yes, I'm a late adopter) I've used cut steel needles, and it worked out better than anticipated, probably due to careful measuring and predrilling of attachment holes. Fiddly, but worth it  :thumbsup:

Pics will follow.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 04, 2024, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:05:09 AM..if looking carefully, one might see the following most glaring discrepancies:

  • the wing tips are wrong, being too long and too "even"
  • the exhaust cone is too long (but too short and all wrong for the later Drakens)
  • the ridge antenna is wrong
  • the nose/radome is much too long and outright awful!
  • the intakes are too thin in cross-section
  • the canopy is too short behind the pilot


But apart from that it's PERFECT!  ;D  ;D  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 04:02:35 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 04, 2024, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 04, 2024, 08:05:09 AM..if looking carefully, one might see the following most glaring discrepancies:

  • the wing tips are wrong, being too long and too "even"
  • the exhaust cone is too long (but too short and all wrong for the later Drakens)
  • the ridge antenna is wrong
  • the nose/radome is much too long and outright awful!
  • the intakes are too thin in cross-section
  • the canopy is too short behind the pilot


But apart from that it's PERFECT!  ;D  ;D  ;)  ;)

The build, modifying so little from the original plastic, is amazingly good given the starting point. I don't know who built it, though. The picture is borrowed from the webz.

Right now, I'm annoyingly tempted to buy another of these old scrap heaps in order to try to build a J35A long or J35B (differed only in electronics). That or shelling out for a Sk35C conversion kit for the Heller or a Hasegawa in order to build the long A/B from my latest purchase. Hmmm...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Old Wombat on October 05, 2024, 05:14:59 AM
That's not a backstory, it's a backnovel! :o

Very good stuff, too! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: NARSES2 on October 05, 2024, 05:52:08 AM
Excellent "stuff"  :bow:  :bow:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 05, 2024, 01:14:58 PM
Still no pylons, but all the rest is there.

IMG_5801.jpeg

IMG_5803.jpeg

Still pretty chuffed.  :wub:

*********

Missile upgrade considerations:

At the end of their career, the J35J featured an upgraded PS-01 radar, the PS-011/A. Basically the same unit, but with significantly better resistance against jamming. The radar was still coupled to the somewhat limited Rb27/AIM-26B Falcon missile. However, the Swedish version was actually upgraded a bit, featuring better ECM resistance (again), and perhaps most revolutionary - a proximity fuse. That meant you could actually hope to hit something when firing it, in stark contrast to the original missile.

Still, the range was short, and the agility of the missile left quite something to be desired, and in 1998, when the J35J  finally was retired, the Swedes had fielded the BAe Skyflash for nigh on 20 years on the JA37 Viggen, and the AIM-120 was actually procured by the RSwAF during 1994 and integrated on the JAS39 Gripens replacing the Drakens. So while hanging AMRAAMs under the J35A may be to push things just a little bit, the Skyflash could theoretically have been integrated, had just the radar catered for them.

Also, the Skyflash monopulse seeker was designed for low level intercepts, in repeated tests hitting target drones flying below 300ft over the ground. Now, that would suit the low level backstory of my J35A very well.
I just don't quite know if it'll work aesthetically. So I will have to fabricate pylons first.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Rick Lowe on October 05, 2024, 01:20:09 PM
Coming along nicely.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 05, 2024, 09:53:51 PM
 That oldie is looking good! Will be using this thread as inspiration if i decide to do something to the Revell Draken i was given a few months ago. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 02:04:14 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on October 05, 2024, 09:53:51 PMThat oldie is looking good! Will be using this thread as inspiration if i decide to do something to the Revell Draken i was given a few months ago. :thumbsup:


They do require a bit of work, but nothing really difficult, it seems. The nose is worst, but with some spares, you'll be fine.

There were early sales efforts to Switzerland, and the demonstrations were flown in a short-tailed A.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Old Wombat on October 06, 2024, 02:20:38 AM
One of the beautiful things about the Draken is how fast it's going when it's standing still! :wub:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 06, 2024, 02:50:48 AM
This topic is getting very bad for me. I already have three long and complicated whiffs in hand. But also a half-baked design for something like these:


(https://www.steelpillow.com/media/P1126.jpg)(https://www.steelpillow.com/media/Ryan186C.jpg)
(https://www.steelpillow.com/media/Ryan186C)
The Draken had a powerful effect on designers around the world. At the same time, R-R were developing lightweight lift engines for supersonic VTOL applications. Rolls themselves, Hawker, Short, Sud Aviation and Ryan were among those who stuffed a thick-rooted double-delta with lift engines. Most put them mid-fuselage. Bristol and Ryan opted for in-wing, which looks so much cooler.

I have a made-up Revell Draken. But its inaccuracies, especially being slightly undersize except for the fin which is slightly over, have led me to get a better kit for my stash. So I have this surplus Revell Draken available for major surgery....
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 06, 2024, 02:50:48 AMThis topic is getting very bad for me. I already have three long and complicated whiffs in hand.

I know what you mean, but I'm much happier after having let go of such limitations, just embracing my lust and mojo. The Shelf of DoomTM, however, does expand a bit in the process.. :angel:

QuoteI have a made-up Revell Draken. But its inaccuracies, especially being slightly undersize except for the fin which is slightly over, have led me to get a better kit for my stash. So I have this surplus Revell Draken available for major surgery....

That's interesting, because when I compare my Hasegawa S35E reconnaissance Draken with the Revell J35A in this thread, they measure up nigh on perfectly - after the rebuilds described. So I don't feel that it's so undersized in relation to its sibling.
Then again, I have admittedly not measured it up towards scale plans.

••••••••••••••••••

Having tried different pylon and missile setups, I'm currently leaning towards a 2 x Skyflash + 2 x Sidewinder load, the former under the outer wings and the latter under the intakes as per the J35J. The Skyflashes are obviously bigger and above all longer than the Falcons the later Draken did carry, but it's not looking totally out of place, and it will be possible to work them in into my kind of backstory. As you might have noticed, I like to keep things at least almost within the reach of a possible reality, and that can be a very narrow path to wander..

Anyway - it's still not too late to alter, should my mind change, but for now, I think it is continuing to look really good.

There is another, later issue of the same old Revell kit coming up on our local Evilbay variant in a few days, and I'm tempted. It'll be more work transforming such a kit into a long J35A or a J35B, but it should be possible, given that I'll have a spare rear fuselage from my planned Sk35C build. And if I decide it's not worth the effort, then it's still a cheap way to acquire the old style fin I'll need if I go with a Hasegawa modification instead.
Choices, choices...
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Gondor on October 06, 2024, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:20:18 PMHaving tried different pylon and missile setups, I'm currently leaning towards a 2 x Skyflash + 2 x Sidewinder load, the former under the outer wings and the latter under the intakes as per the J35J. The Skyflashes are obviously bigger and above all longer than the Falcons the later Draken did carry, but it's not looking totally out of place, and it will be possible to work them in into my kind of backstory. As you might have noticed, I like to keep things at least almost within the reach of a possible reality, and that can be a very narrow path to wander.


So a pair of Rb 71's along with a pair of RB24J's as your loadout, very reasonable I think.

Gondor
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gondor on October 06, 2024, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:20:18 PMHaving tried different pylon and missile setups, I'm currently leaning towards a 2 x Skyflash + 2 x Sidewinder load, the former under the outer wings and the latter under the intakes as per the J35J. The Skyflashes are obviously bigger and above all longer than the Falcons the later Draken did carry, but it's not looking totally out of place, and it will be possible to work them in into my kind of backstory. As you might have noticed, I like to keep things at least almost within the reach of a possible reality, and that can be a very narrow path to wander.


So a pair of Rb 71's along with a pair of RB24J's as your loadout, very reasonable I think.

Gondor

Aye, mate. That's what we're looking at, currently.  :mellow:

EDIT: Almost. I'll go for the Rb74/AIM-9L instead of the Rb24J. These are within reach, chronologically, and a much, much better missile.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 03:50:34 AM
H'mm, not sure which kit is the better/worse, now.

Data comparison:
All dimensions in mm

VersionSpan   
Wing inner   
section width   
Length   Height   Fin ht.   Notes
Saab 35F9,42015,350 3,890Length Appears to include nose Pitot.
1:72 scaled   13121354
Revell130
58
1925724Assembled model. No Pitot.
Heller134
64
193/21422 Unmade kit. Pitot optional.

On the Revell model the wing inner section is noticeably shorter with the intakes set further back. It is also 6 mm narrower, making the whole model look smaller. Wing outer each 1mm wider, with shorter tip chord.
Revell tailpipe is a fraction shorter, but the  fin 2 mm taller (even taking the Heller ridge into account) and with LE more sharply raked with noticeably shorter tip chord.

I have mislaid my main source on Saab, but some of these discrepancies (and others not mentioned) can be explained if we take the Revell kit to be of an earlier variant, perhaps the A or D. Others are due to inaccuracies in one kit or the other. Were the intakes later extended forward? Was the fin tip flattened upwards or downwards? And so on.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 07, 2024, 03:56:48 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 03:50:34 AMH'mm, not sure which kit is the better/worse, now.

Data comparison:
All dimensions in mm


VersionSpan 
Wing inner 
section width 
Length  Height  Fin ht.  Notes
Saab 35F9,42015,350 3,890Length Appears to include nose Pitot.
1:72 scaled  13121354
Revell130
58
1925724Assembled model. No Pitot.
Heller134
64
193/21422Unmade kit. Pitot optional.

On the Revell model the wing inner section is noticeably shorter with the intakes set further back. Wing tip chord is shorter. Centre section is 6 mm narrower, wing outer each 1mm wider.
Revell tailpipe is a fraction shorter, but the  fin 2 mm taller (even taking the Heller ridge into account) and with LE more sharply raked with noticeably shorter tip chord.

I have mislaid my main source on Saab, but some of these discrepancies can be explained if we take the Revell kit to be of an earlier variant, perhaps the A or D. Others are due to inaccuracies in one kit or the other. Were the intakes later extended forward? Was the fin tip flattened upwards or downwards? And so on.




Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 08:20:53 AM
Makes sense. Can't think Saab would have widened the inner wing by 40 cm or so from the A, though. Definitely scheduled for the razor saw.

I like Ryan's idea of multiple lift fans. Driven from the main engine, F-35 style. Quad drive via twin shafts, like a Chelsea Tractor. Maybe four in a quad arrangement, or eight smaller ones in four pairs.
Intakes tucked back further, underneath the LE root.
The plane would need to be a bit bigger, like the Project 37-1 strike fighter of 1960, to maintain adequate payload-range. But as the kit's too narrow anyway, that is not a problem. And the intakes are almost far enough back already, just a little further to widen them. This is getting too good to be true. ;)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 07, 2024, 10:19:29 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 08:20:53 AMMakes sense. Can't think Saab would have widened the inner wing by 40 cm or so from the A, though. Definitely scheduled for the razor saw.

Again - held side by side with a Hasegawa, the total width from the right to the left joint between the outer and inner wings is very similar between the old Revell and the new Hasegawa. So I believe that dimension is correct.

That said - whiffing the kit to something entirely different does leave the door open for about any design you like, so carry on!  ;)

QuoteI like Ryan's idea of multiple lift fans. Driven from the main engine, F-35 style. Quad drive via twin shafts, like a Chelsea Tractor. Maybe four in a quad arrangement, or eight smaller ones in four pairs.
Intakes tucked back further, underneath the LE root.
The plane would need to be a bit bigger, like the Project 37-1 strike fighter of 1960, to maintain adequate payload-range. But as the kit's too narrow anyway, that is not a problem. And the intakes are almost far enough back already, just a little further to widen them. This is getting too good to be true. ;)

The possibilities are endless..  ;D
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 11:06:07 AM
Now look what you've gone and made me do:

(https://www.steelpillow.com/media/misc/draken-kitbash.jpg)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 07, 2024, 12:35:38 PM
We likes!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Spino on October 08, 2024, 06:49:14 AM
Quote from: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: Gondor on October 06, 2024, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: Pellson on October 06, 2024, 01:20:18 PMHaving tried different pylon and missile setups, I'm currently leaning towards a 2 x Skyflash + 2 x Sidewinder load, the former under the outer wings and the latter under the intakes as per the J35J. The Skyflashes are obviously bigger and above all longer than the Falcons the later Draken did carry, but it's not looking totally out of place, and it will be possible to work them in into my kind of backstory. As you might have noticed, I like to keep things at least almost within the reach of a possible reality, and that can be a very narrow path to wander.


So a pair of Rb 71's along with a pair of RB24J's as your loadout, very reasonable I think.

Gondor

Aye, mate. That's what we're looking at, currently.  :mellow:

EDIT: Almost. I'll go for the Rb74/AIM-9L instead of the Rb24J. These are within reach, chronologically, and a much, much better missile.

If it were me I'd be tempted to get or fabricate some LAU-105 launchers and give this thing four Rb74s/AIM-9Ls in addition to a pair of Skyflashes.  Looking great so far.  That Draken with Gripen wings looks really nice too, give it some AMRAAMs or something  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 14, 2024, 09:21:00 AM
Right.

Back home again, and even if there's loads of work to care for professionally, I'm as usual conducting "aerodynamic studies"* on some more or less completed models while being caught up in Teams meetings. One of those study subjects is the complete but unpainted J35A, which has brought me to thinking about the scheme. Should one go late J35J grey over grey scheme, optimised for low to medium level air combat, or should one rather stay with the more JMN original Draken camouflage - which in all fairness is a more colourful and pretty scheme than the later J35J air superiority scheme? Well, that depends, methinks, on time frame.

Any Draken up to 1989 would be dark and murky on top, and medium bluegrey underneath. However, in the late 1980's, as the fighter Viggens became grey, the sole remaining J35 wing, the F10, also tried out a grey air superiority scheme on their J35J's, and from ca 1990, all single seat Drakens were grey. However, while the J35J's as well as the JA37's stuck to their hi-vis national insignia until replaced, the new JAS39A's already in 1996 tried toned down blue and yellow insignia as well as entirely greyed out ones, standardising on the latter. (At the same time, stencilling was minimised, as that was seen as peacetime H&S stuff rather than applicable for war).

IMG_5820.jpeg
Awful photo from a book showing the RAF-style toned down insignia trialled for a short period on 39801, autumn 1996

Anyway - from the above follows that an early Draken could very theoretically have been kept in the old colours for money saving reasons, but most likely, it would at least have turned grey towards the end of it's service (given that I've set 1998 as out-of-service date in my backstory above). Under the same auspices, one would have expected the insignia to stay hi-vis, but one could suggest some minimalisation of stencilling on a grey machine. One could, actually, even consider a toned-down but still coloured insignia as per the trials Gripen For a wartime, or even high readiness scenario, I would have expected no hi-vis individual nos, or similar, rather reverting to yellow on the old dark scheme or black on the newer grey.

Right (again). Having now set this out to myself, I shall now continue my aerodynamic studies, mulling on the above..  :wacko:

*) Those who know, know..  :wacko:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Spino on October 14, 2024, 10:16:54 AM
Honestly I like both, though the older scheme might look better on the Draken.  Grey would be interesting though.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 14, 2024, 11:54:32 AM
Quote from: Spino on October 14, 2024, 10:16:54 AMHonestly I like both, though the older scheme might look better on the Draken.  Grey would be interesting though.

IMG_5822.jpeg

Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 14, 2024, 12:16:22 PM
Since you obviously have nothing better to do than wait for Teams to reconnect yet again, might they ever have done a Draken in the Viggen multi-green splinter scheme?  :wacko:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 14, 2024, 12:22:16 PM
Oh dear, serves me right. Immediately after posting a demonic suggestion, my mind drifted off to a place where a 1:32 scale Draken is rendered as a 1:72 scale dual-cycle hybrid turbo-ramjet powered attack bomber (embiggened version of the SR-71's magnificent burner thingies). I can see it crystal clear in my mind's eye, all those acres of grubby riveted titanium and gaping jetpipe. Is there no peace for the wicked?
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on October 14, 2024, 12:30:32 PM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 14, 2024, 12:16:22 PMSince you obviously have nothing better to do than wait for Teams to reconnect yet again, might they ever have done a Draken in the Viggen multi-green splinter scheme?  :wacko:

Do be my guest..  :wacko:

IMG_5823.jpeg
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: NARSES2 on October 15, 2024, 06:00:55 AM
Always liked that multi green splinter scheme  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Dizzyfugu on October 15, 2024, 07:15:21 AM
Could not resist to post mine - using the "real" Fields & Meadows pattern from above (had found a full 3-side overview as reference!) on a whiffy attack Draken:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51946417630_b9380d8e33_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n9jYbb)
1:72 Saab A 35 G "Draken"; aircraft "02 Red" of the Svenska Flygvapnet (Swedish Air Force) Västgöta Wing (F 6); Karlsborg Air Base, 1974 (Whif/modified Revell/Mistercraft kit) (https://flic.kr/p/2n9jYbb) by Dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51946123674_a10232258f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n9isMY)
1:72 Saab A 35 G "Draken"; aircraft "02 Red" of the Svenska Flygvapnet (Swedish Air Force) Västgöta Wing (F 6); Karlsborg Air Base, 1974 (Whif/modified Revell/Mistercraft kit) (https://flic.kr/p/2n9isMY) by Dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr

Not too far off...  ;D
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on October 15, 2024, 01:18:33 PM
 :wub:  :wub:  :wub:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Wardukw on October 16, 2024, 01:40:07 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on October 07, 2024, 11:06:07 AMNow look what you've gone and made me do:

(https://www.steelpillow.com/media/misc/draken-kitbash.jpg)

OK this thread is having the same affect on me too Steel mate..your design combined with the warped thoughts I'm having are leading me down path to slight ruin 😅
Pellson made for something that old your doing very nice work indeed 😁
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 13, 2025, 09:14:58 AM
Quote from: Pellson on October 05, 2024, 01:14:58 PMMissile upgrade considerations:
At the end of their career, the J35J featured an upgraded PS-01 radar, the PS-011/A. Basically the same unit, but with significantly better resistance against jamming. The radar was still coupled to the somewhat limited Rb27/AIM-26B Falcon missile. However, the Swedish version was actually upgraded a bit, featuring better ECM resistance (again), and perhaps most revolutionary - a proximity fuse. That meant you could actually hope to hit something when firing it, in stark contrast to the original missile.

Still, the range was short, and the agility of the missile left quite something to be desired, and in 1998, when the J35J  finally was retired, the Swedes had fielded the BAe Skyflash for nigh on 20 years on the JA37 Viggen, and the AIM-120 was actually procured by the RSwAF during 1994 and integrated on the JAS39 Gripens replacing the Drakens. So while hanging AMRAAMs under the J35A may be to push things just a little bit, the Skyflash could theoretically have been integrated, had just the radar catered for them.

Also, the Skyflash monopulse seeker was designed for low level intercepts, in repeated tests hitting target drones flying below 300ft over the ground. Now, that would suit the low level backstory of my J35A very well.
I just don't quite know if it'll work aesthetically. So I will have to fabricate pylons first.

Still mulling on this, and while Skyflashes actually would work from a time perspective, they do look a tad substantial under the nimble Swedish fighter. On the other hand, I should perhaps start by replacing the Sidewinder pylons I've been using with more accurate load stations, giving something nearer to the final layout I'll be looking for when trying on the missile options.

And this would also mean some actual progress in the project as such. Progress well overdue, even  :angel:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 14, 2025, 06:08:41 AM
Looking further into the missile matter today, I found >THIS< (https://ausairpower.net/Falcon-Evolution.html#mozTocId730309) rather complete write up on the Falcon missiles by a Sean O'Connor on Air Power Australia. Interestingly, it seems that from a mathematical point of view based on actual kill ratio, the Falcons weren't that much worse - if worse at all - in comparison to Sidewinders. Of particular interest is the description of SAAB/Bofors modifying the GAR-2A IR guided missiles bought by the Air Force, adding indigeneously developed laser proximity fusing instead of the contact fuses on the American missiles, and also replacing the seeker heads with the much better heads from the GAR-4A, thereby, according to this text, creating the most effficient IR guided Falcons of the lot. In fact, the seeker head was so good that it on one occasion facilitated a very central hit on a metal disc, heated to just below 100C and dropped from a carrier aircraft at altitude, meaning true all aspect capability. These improvements together with the measures taken to increase manouverability on the later Falcon versions did actually produce a dogfight missile at least equal to the AIM-4L. 
This also explains why the RSwAF originally chose the IR Falcon rather than the Sidewinder when adding air-to-air capability to the attack AJ37 Viggen version. The Swedish Falcon was simply a better missile than the Rb24J/AIM-9J alternative already in use in Sweden, but due to aerodynamic problems when integrating the Falcon to the Viggen outer wing pylons, the more slick Rb24J had to be used at the end anyway.

Looking at the SARH versions, also the Swedish SARH Falcons, GAR-11's, were modified in Sweden. Already from the start, the Swedish proximity fuses were incorporated, but for most of their life time, the tracker head had problems with ground clutter interference, resulting in the missile being basically useless below 3000ft. When the J35F-to-J modification went ahead, however, seeker technology knowledge drawn from the Skyflash missile in use on the JA37 Viggens was incorporated in the old missiles, resulting in several successful test interceptions of targets flying as low as 150ft, both over land and water. Mentioning of the latter capacity is found >HERE< (https://flygmuseum.engelholm.se/se-och-gora/utstallningen/texter-till-qr-koder/robot-27-falcon-radar.html), but please be aware that the page is writtten in Swedish. Given that not only the USAF and Sweden, but also Finland and Switzerland kept Falcon missiles in service almost up to the turn of the century, I would guess that the missiles were't quite as bad as many sources have given, and thus, maybe I shouldn't disregard them as easily as I have, up till now?

The remaining main shortcomings of the missiles are the small warhead (mainly in the GAR-2, -3 and -4's , the fatter Rb27/GAR-11 carried more bang) and the still relatively short effective range. That said, the range figures were similar to Sidewinders of the same generation, ca 12 km/7,5 miles. However, the Falcons max range was actually 20 km/12,5 miles, equalling the later AIM-9L Sidewinder version that introduced new, more compact engine technology. I suppose the Falcons could have benefitted from similar improvements, reaching at least similar effective range numbers.
Still, these are short ranges in comparison to Sparrow/Skyflash which rather early on easily flew 40 km/25 miles, and later almost the double. Obviously, longer range will always be better, but all things considered, I would have said that given the standard mission profile of a Swedish (or Finnish) Draken in the 1965-1998 period (GCI of primarily enemy attack aircraft, mainly flying on the deck), these latter versions seems to hold up reasonably against the competition, looking mainly at Matra 530 as well as the Russian R-98 and R-23 missiles, but for the significantly larger warhead of all these missiles.

Given above, this does shine some new light on the Draken armament. In whif-world, it's not entirely unthinkable that even better engines increase burntime and thereby range towards 25, maybe even 30 km's, meaning not full BVR, but almost. Also, better explosives could theoretically at least partially offset the small warhead charge.
IRL, Sweden chose the larger GAR-11A/AIM-26B rather than the smaller GAR-3A, but as the only 1/72 GAR-11's in the market are annoyingly expensive and even more annoyingly fiddly resin/PE aftermarket stuff, whereas I already have quite a few GAR-3A's of reasonable shape and size, both from old Airfix Drakens and more recent Hasegawa weapons sets, maybe I should consider the smaller, lighter and less draggy GAR-3A in an evolved form as the main SARH option for the Draken after all? The Skyflash will always be a better option given warhead size and range, but it does look a bit hefty under te nimble Draken, and one actually wonders whether the small radar in the Draken, even in an evolved form, would possess the capacity to track a fighter sized target much further than 30km anyway?

Another option could be the SARH Firestreak (Blue Jay Mk4) I'm looking at for my Lightning F.2B. That missile is bigger than the Falcon, thereby giving opportunity for longer range, at least up to 40km, as well as a more reasonable warhead size. The downside here is my limited supply of Firestreaks in comparison to the around 20 Airfix/Hasegawa Falcons available. and that isn't counting the 16 not so good but usable-with-modifications missiles from the F-102 kits. And whatever is supplied in the two F-106 kits I also own. Hmmm....


Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 14, 2025, 06:31:39 AM
I'm quite often glad that with most of my builds being pre 1946 I'm only faced with 7.92/20/30mm when it comes to air to air armament  ;)
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 15, 2025, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: Pellson on March 14, 2025, 06:08:41 AMGiven above, this does shine some new light on the Draken armament. In whif-world, it's not entirely unthinkable that even better engines increase burntime and thereby range towards 25, maybe even 30 km's, meaning not full BVR, but almost. Also, better explosives could theoretically at least partially offset the small warhead charge.
IRL, Sweden chose the larger GAR-11A/AIM-26B rather than the smaller GAR-3A, but as the only 1/72 GAR-11's in the market are annoyingly expensive and even more annoyingly fiddly resin/PE aftermarket stuff, whereas I already have quite a few GAR-3A's of reasonable shape and size, both from old Airfix Drakens and more recent Hasegawa weapons sets, maybe I should consider the smaller, lighter and less draggy GAR-3A in an evolved form as the main SARH option for the Draken after all? The Skyflash will always be a better option given warhead size and range, but it does look a bit hefty under te nimble Draken, and one actually wonders whether the small radar in the Draken, even in an evolved form, would possess the capacity to track a fighter sized target much further than 30km anyway?

Reading up a bit on the Swedish procurement of the AIM-4/-26's, an engineer involved at the time states that the smaller GAR-3A actually was the preferred SARH option, but it was one third more expensive than a de-nuclearised GAR-11. Hence the choice of the bigger/fatter missile. Again, this does speak for using my existing GAR-3A's on my Draken builds rather than the Skyflash, but I'd better get on with my new pylons, making trial fitting an actual possibility.

As today's visit to the missile museum gave me another mojo boost, focused on the Drakens, then this might actually happen in a not too distant future, but I have to admit I'm also rather keen on getting my Heller/Revell kitbashes of the J35B (all but similar externally) and the Sk35C going. The plan is to use the Revell front with the Heller rear on the J35B and vice versa on the Sk35C. Probably a bit more complicated than it sounds when I say it, but definitely worth a good try. But hopefully, I can sort that damned pylon thing on the J35A first.  :angel:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 17, 2025, 04:03:12 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 15, 2025, 04:18:16 PM..I have to admit I'm also rather keen on getting my Heller/Revell kitbashes of the J35B (all but similar externally) and the Sk35C going. The plan is to use the Revell front with the Heller rear on the J35B and vice versa on the Sk35C. Probably a bit more complicated than it sounds when I say it, but definitely worth a good try.
Having brought out the two Draken kits, this plan seems to be falling apart somewhat. The Heller fuselage is significantly wider than the old Revell kit, meaning the diameter of the fuselages won't match and as a consequence, neither will the wing span. Digging out a built Hasegawa S35E reconnaissance Draken and an old Airfix J35F for further comparison, it seems the Hasegawa, Revell and Airfix kits are dimensionally reasonably close whereas again, the Heller kit is a good bit too wide. There is however another interesting discrepancy as well, where the Heller and Airfix long rear fuselages, covering the afterburners, are circular whereas the Hasegawa - and the real aircraft - are somewhat flattened top and bottom, creating a slightly ogival shape. 

So - what to do? Well, given that the Airfix is scrap and spares already, and that its rear fuselage likely will match the Revell fuselage, maybe I can try to build the J35B by combining the nose and cockpit of the Revell with the rear fuselage of the Airfix. Obviously, I would also have to either modify the Airfix fin or replace it with the Revell one, given that the fin tops are different. Another, but likely more complicated option would be to replace the rearmost parts of the Revell kit with a corresponding Airfix section, but given that I would need to carry over also the spur wheel fairing, this seems to be a more difficult operation than cutting and joining up ahead. In any case, I wouldn't bother with the lack of ogivalness of the outlet fairing.

The Sk35C trainer will be a more complicated task to complete, however. The easy way out would be to just sell off the Heller kit and instead buy another Hasegawa kit and a Maestro Models conversion set. These can be found, but they would set me back at least £70, so rather expensive indeed. The result, however, would be impeccable. Then again, an impeccable result might not always be what you're primarily after, rather looking for an enjoyable build, so maybe I should look closer into replacing the rearmost piece of the Heller kit with the Revell exhaust. That would also mean omitting the spur wheel fairing, but since the resulting area shall blend into the otherwise reasonably flat belly, that shouldn't be the big challenge in this, whereas matching the two different fuselage diameters likely will. Up front, the air intakes would need to be shortened a bit, but that's minor stuff.

I'll mull on this for a bit and perhaps start with the J35B for the time being.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 17, 2025, 04:18:20 AM
Nothing like a bit of mulling in such situations.  ;D
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on March 17, 2025, 06:04:32 AM
Note that the Revell fin is by contrast oversize (at least compared to the Heller). So if you go that road you may want to trim it down a bit.

Meanwhile, my old Revell build is too small, so I went and got a Heller for my stash but that's apparently too wide.
Any chance I can kitbash the two to make one  accurate beast? Fuselage from one, wings from the other, or whatever?
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 17, 2025, 09:43:18 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 17, 2025, 06:04:32 AMNote that the Revell fin is by contrast oversize (at least compared to the Heller). So if you go that road you may want to trim it down a bit.

Meanwhile, my old Revell build is too small, so I went and got a Heller for my stash but that's apparently too wide.
Any chance I can kitbash the two to make one  accurate beast? Fuselage from one, wings from the other, or whatever?

Actually, I think the Revell kit is better overall from a dimensional perspective, but that said - if you don't have anyhing to compare with, it's not that awful. The main quirks with the Heller kit are:
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: steelpillow on March 17, 2025, 10:14:02 AM
You're talking me into a Hasegawa kit for the real thing and TWO whiffs now, aren't you? ;)

A VTOL one - and I've always had a yen for the project with flip-out canard moustache.
Title: Re: SAAB J35A Draken (Refurbished 1957 Revell kit)
Post by: Pellson on March 17, 2025, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 17, 2025, 10:14:02 AMYou're talking me into a Hasegawa kit for the real thing and TWO whiffs now, aren't you? ;)

A VTOL one - and I've always had a yen for the project with flip-out canard moustache.

If you really want to build an accurate Draken, then the Hasegawa kit is the only way, I'm, afraid.

*************

Re my own Drakens, I've started up the J35B build. However, looking at the thickness of the forward wing, or rather the difference in thickness of this part between the Airfix and the revell kits, I decided to cut and join at the back rather than at the front. An added benefit, apart from a less troublesome joint to PSR, is that the J35A (Short) I already have will be rather similar to the J35B, as they should.
Anyway - both fuselages are cut and I have begun to prepare the Revell front fuselage for the joint by painting the cockpit innards etc. Pics might follow later.

I also renamed this thread, not to have to start another one for the J35B  :wacko:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 18, 2025, 04:26:31 AM
Officially being the worst person ever to handle a saw, I had to shim in a 3mm piece of styrene in order to make the joint work at all. Also, this way I could guarantee that the fuselage length will be correct. Or rather - matching the all-Revell J35A model.

Anyway, it's been a rather cumbersome cutting experience and an even worse joining, but now, it's left to set for a bit before I get on with the PSR of the joint.

IMG_6295.jpeg

I've decided to use the Revell wings and fin, thereby again ensuring as much commonality between these two models as possible. Generally, I would otherwise say that the Airfix' wings are better from the start, but they'll eventually come in handy for some other build anyway.

For the Sk35C, I will probably have to go the expensive way, but that will be for another day.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 18, 2025, 06:11:23 AM
The shot of the wingless Draken is making me think of a swing wing version

Do I spot RAF C type and RDAF drinks mats in the background then ?  ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on March 18, 2025, 07:05:29 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 18, 2025, 06:11:23 AMDo I spot RAF C type and RDAF drinks mats in the background then ?  ;)

You noticed them, too, eh! ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 18, 2025, 09:03:11 PM
Sure they're not Rosettes from the last Show?  ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 19, 2025, 01:52:10 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 18, 2025, 06:11:23 AMThe shot of the wingless Draken is making me think of a swing wing version

Do I spot RAF C type and RDAF drinks mats in the background then ?  ;)

Yeah, couldn't help myself back in the day when the kids were at it.. :)
I have been contemplating trying one Swedish too, but the crowns may be tricky to get correctly centered.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 19, 2025, 06:25:02 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 19, 2025, 01:52:10 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 18, 2025, 06:11:23 AMDo I spot RAF C type and RDAF drinks mats in the background then ?  ;)

Yeah, couldn't help myself back in the day when the kids were at it.. :)
I have been contemplating trying one Swedish too, but the crowns may be tricky to get correctly centered.

You made them ? Impressive  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Rick Lowe on March 18, 2025, 09:03:11 PMSure they're not Rosettes from the last Show?  ;)

;D  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 19, 2025, 03:22:08 PM
Given recent development, i.e the ongoing and so far successful construction not only of the J35A Short, but also of its slightly younger sister, the J35B, it seems this backstory deserves a revisit.

The long life of the early J35 Drakens
Already within a year after the first flight of the SAAB 29 Tunnan in 1948, the next generation of jet fighter was being put into development. While the Tunnan certainly was a major leap ahead in comparison to the Vampires they were to replace, the Royal Swedish Air Force was sorely aware that much more challenging opponents were in the curtains.
The target for the engineering team at SAAB was an entirely new aircraft, forming the airborne part of a new, semiautomatic combat control system, the STRIL60, that was to be able to defeat fast, high flying opponents in all weathers and at all times during the day and year. To reach these targets, the new fighter would have to be solidly supersonic and equipped with a radar to, regardless of weather or lighting conditions, be able to independently complete the intercept once vectored into the general vicinity of the opponent. On top of this, the emerging threats from the new cold war meant that the new aircraft would have to be independent of big air bases, rather optimised to disperse and operate from remote road bases and small airfields for an extended period of time. To make this even remotely possible from a Swedish financial perspective, the aircraft would have to be relatively small, manned by a single aircrew and also be maintainable by a relatively small team of conscript technicians, lead by a single professional technical officer or NCO.

The design team, lead by aeronautical engineer Erik Bratt, started from research by the German engineer Alexander Lippisch on delta wings, and from 1951, one of Lippisch's students, Hermann Behrbohm, was attached to the project team. In 1955, the first prototype of the new SAAB 35 took to the air and in 1959, the first serially produced aircraft rolled out of the SAAB factory in Linköping. Within a year, the first squadron at the F13 Wing in nearby Norrköping was converting from the J29A Tunnan to the new J35A Draken. Tactical testing and development commenced at F13, but soon it was found that performance was severely restricted above 13 000 m. The reason was some lack of thrust from the existing RM6B/EBK65 combination (a slightly improved RR Avon Mk48A paired with a locally designed afterburner) and lead to the development of a new, longer afterburner, causing an extension of the tailcone and necessitating the characteristic spur wheel installation of the later Drakens.

During 1960-1961, 90 J35A's were built, and this new afterburner, the EBK 66, was introduced in production from serial no 35066, giving significantly more thrust and less supersonic drag, in particular at high altitudes. The first 65 airframes weren't rebuilt, however, and officially, these two physically different variants were designated J35A1 and J35A2, but in service, they were referred to as J35A "short" and "long", respectively.
Of these, serial no's 35008-35040 were delivered without radar as the planned, domestically developed radar wasn't ready. Instead they featured the same reflection gunsight as the J29 Tunnan. From 35041, however, a somewhat simpler radar than originally specified was installed, bought from Thomson CSF in France. This was basically a somewhat glorified gun ranging radar, but it could also be used to assist in targeting the IR missile in worse weather, but not to search for targets independently.
As the STRIL communications link also wasn't ready in time, all J35A's would lack the voiceless command link, instead having to rely on verbal communication via radio from the combat control centers, dug deep in the Swedish bedrock.

In the meantime, missile development was ongoing and a prototype missile, the Rb321, was tested from groundbased launchers. The progress was however not quite as desired, so eventually, an offer from the US for AIM-9B Sidewinders was received and accepted, leading to the termination of the Rb321 development before any air launches were made. However, integration of the AIM-9B would come first during 1963, so in the meantime, the two fixed Aden cannons was the only armament available.
The only store to be carried in the meantime was a single 530 litre drop tank on a centerline pylon. Once the Sidewinders were available, however, either two of them could be carried, one under each outer wing in combination with the drop tank, or two more missiles could replace the tank on an inverted Y pylon on the centerline. Also, six pairs of 13,5 cm Bofors attack rockets could be fitted on rails under the outer wings, giving a rudimentary if effective strike capability.

25 early short and radarless Drakens were taken back by SAAB already during 1961 for modification to unarmed two seater trainers. This was an afterthought by the RSwAF. The old and experienced test pilots at SAAB had deemed the flight characteristics of the new fighter good enough for "any reasonably trained fighter pilot" to handle solo, but the Air Force soon found that to be somewhat optimistic in practice. The unarmed twoseater was dubbed Sk35C (the "B" denomination already being occupied by the properly radar equipped follow-on to the "A" already in progress) and designed to easily be reconfigured back into a J35A armed fighter, should the need arise. 
In 1963, following the missile integration, some radar installations where such was missing, and some other minor upgrades, all remaining J35A's were reassigned from F13 to F16, in Uppsala north of Stockholm, as F13 were taking on newbuilt J35B's. The J35A's would remain at F16, together with the Sk35C-equipped OCU, until replaced in 1977 by the final newbuild Draken version, the J35F. By then, they had gained a small forward looking IR camera under the nose that integrated into the sight, improving night fighter capability. When phased out, most of the remaining A's were put in storage.

In the mean time, also the J35B had been delivered, first to F16 but soon also to F18, just south of Stockholm.  The B was very much similar to the long A, but featured the Swedish radar finally ready for installation. Another difference was that the B got the STRIL60 controlled interception data link to facilitate radio silent ground controlled interception, a first outside the USA and something none of the A's got in their early years.
The B's in Uppsala didn't stay for long, however. After only a year there, as the A's from F13 were delivered, about one half of the F16's J35B's went to F18 Wing. The other half went to F10 in sourthernmost Sweden, equipping one sqn while the F10 wings other two sqn's soldiered on with the J34 Hawker Hunter for a few years more until they converted to the next Draken fighter mark, the J35D. The second hand B's did however start the Scanian wings long association with the SAAB double delta.  Interestingly, this version was again pioneered by the F13 Wing in Norrköping.The J35D featured a more powerful engine/afterburner combination, the RM6C/EBK67, requiring more fuel but also reworked and extended air intakes. More important was the new radar giving better interception capabilities than before. Finally, the fin was changed somewhat as the pitot previously located just ahead/below the tip now was moved all the way up.
The J35B's however would stay at F18 until the disbandment of this wing in 1974.

During the 1960's and 1970's, the European peace movement had been heavily infiltrated by KGB and the Soviet support had activated several European left extremist terror groups, such as the Rote Armee Fraktion in West Germany and the Brigata Rossi in Italy. Also, regular spy activities were high and in several countries bordering the Baltic, Soviet incursions were made by small submersibles, possibly landing and recovering agents and sabotage teams. Following the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 and then the fall of the Shah in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Soviets, apparently encouraged by their successes, went on an offensive across the board. Large, aggresive Warsaw pact exercises were held, at least yearly, and in the early 1980's, these tended to include practice large air assaults across the Baltic sea, targeting not only the NATO countries, but also Sweden.

These events in combination with the generally more unruly situation between the superpowers led to Sweden reconsidering the military cutbacks decided during the 1970's, instead rapidly rearming itself. As a consequence, several air force fighter wings were reestablished, and older aircraft were taken out of storage to fill out the new squadrons. Upgrades were considered as the J35A, B and D lacked radar controlled missiles, and while modernising the D's to the later F standard was a rather straightforward affair given that they were the same in all but radar and missile systems, the older A's and B's were different, having less powerful engines and significantly less advanced electronics. Of these, the long A's and B's, of which 71 airframes were stored in more or less good repair, were first to be taken in hand, mainly due to their significantly better high altitude performance due to their better aerodynamics and more powerful afterburners. On reactivation, these aircraft were upgraded with the improved radar of the J35F and sights, thereby not only finally getting fully integrated in the combat control system, but also gaining the capability for collision course intercepts with the Rb27/28 SARH/IR Falcon missiles in addition to Sidewinders. Also, they gained the Hughes IRST unit from the J35F2, as these had proven very well working, in particular against low flying targets. However, these older Drakens still only had three hardpoints, of which one usually was occupied by a new larger drop tank, now containing 1200 litres and borrowed from the Danish SAAB 35XD design. Also, like their J35F sisters, they lost the port cannon to make room for the new missile control electronics.

As the upgrade was decided and budgeted, someone suggested looking at the 23 remaining short A's as well, given that development of technology and tooling already was paid for, and as it was found that adding these aircraft to the main programme only would increase the total budget with about 6%, the decision to go ahead was given, despite their somewhat lower performance, and hence, the remaining 23 short A's were similarly upgraded. 
As an afterthought, also the 21 Sk35C's were given the same upgrade, giving them equal capability to the short A's, but for the Aden cannon as that space already was used for fuel. While less useful for peacetime patrols due to the lack of cannons, they would be able to form an emergency fighter sqn in wartime.

The short A's went back to their former home in Uppsala, joining their technically very similar Sk35C's at the J35 OCU and forming the 161st fighter sqn, F16 Wing, flying alongside the J35F's of the 162nd and 163rd sqns. Having reached operational status, they were assigned to the low altitude air defence of the greater Stockholm area, and in wartime, they would have been accompanied by the Sk35C's, who got a similar system upgrade and would have formed the 164th sqn in time of war. The remaining long J35A's joined the after upgrading very similar J35B's at the reestablished F18 Wing, south of Stockholm, where they equipped four peacetime sqns, the 181 through 184 sqn. In case of an attack from the east (in reality the only scenario trained for) however, it was anticipated that at least one of these sqns would be flown over the Gulf of Bothnia and handed over to the Finnish Ilvoimaat, reinforcing the six J35B's already operational there. In preparation for this, the Finns throughout the Cold War always trained about twice the amount of pilots needed to operate their Drakens.

A few years later, when it became apparent that the JAS39 development was running very late indeed, a larger upgrade programme for the Drakens was rolled out. This retrofit was primarily intended for the J35D/F models, creating the J35J interceptor and included significantly better radars and electronics but also some extra fuel capacity by making the outer wing pylons wet. Also, an extra hardpoint for an AIM-9 missile was added under each air intake, increasing the possible missile armament by one third, or allowing for significantly better time on station when carrying four drop tanks while still fielding missiles. While not extending the full rebuild to the old J35A's and B's, these extra missile stations were carried over also to the older Drakens still in service, finally providing a credible second attack capability.
However, as the first Gripens finally entered service in the late 1990's, these the least capable and now forty-year-old Drakens were the first to go, being replaced initially by slightly younger J35J sisters inherited from sqns converting to the JAS39, and later by new Gripens, as they became available.


Right. That would cater for the Bravo (or Bertil, in Swedish) version as well.

Still, however, I'm not entirely satisfied with armament. The backstory would only give the upgraded Drakens the rather shortlegged Falcon missiles, and as I've found that the later Ericsson PS011/A radar of the J35J could track and provide fire solutions up to about 65 km, the just above 20 km range of the Rb27/GAR-11 missile seems a tad on the short side. I shall return to this.

On the construction side, things are actually moving forwards as well. Most of the fuselage PSR is completed, and wings and fin attached. Some minor tip sculpting remains as well as to putty in the new nose, also carried over from the old Airfix corpse.

IMG_6307.jpeg

But that, and more, is for another day.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on March 19, 2025, 09:06:46 PM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 19, 2025, 09:18:42 PM
Yup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 20, 2025, 02:23:27 AM
Your Mojo has definately returned for this project  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2025, 06:58:55 AM
You should write a book on the J35

Oh, you just did.  ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 20, 2025, 01:40:30 PM
Another good day! PSR is complete, pilot and seat (one piece!) modified, painted and put in cockpit. Nose and wingtips are filed into shape and most antennae are in place. I've even added the center pylon and its 1200 ltr drop tank.
Weapon pylons, nose pitot and a small air intake on the port side of the spine remain to be fixed, as does the Hughes HN-71 IRST. While having used a Heller part on the short-tailed J35A, I might replace that with a better one, nicked from a Hasegawa kit. Not primarily because I absolutely need the better part, but because I don't have another Heller IRST available. However, neither the Danish nor the Austrian Drakens had them, but they're present on the standard Hasegawa spruces. And obviously, I'll need two, one for each Revell Draken.

Anyway - this is where we are right now:

IMG_6313.jpeg

IMG_6311.jpeg
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: chrisonord on March 20, 2025, 02:04:43 PM
Very nice  :wub:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2025, 03:07:59 PM
The Draken always looks like it's doing M 2.0 even when it's standing still!  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 20, 2025, 09:24:17 PM
Nice.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on March 21, 2025, 02:54:36 AM
 ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 21, 2025, 05:47:36 AM
Re the two early Drakens I'm building:
As you can see, the main (only) difference between the J35A short and the J35A long is the afterburner, clearly visible as the later model has a significantly extended rear fuselage. The J35B did have a few other changes, but only in electronics, so let's skip past that for now.

Anyhow - the reason to modify the powerplant was that the performance of the original J35A was somewhat disappointing, in particular above 13000 m. Also, the max speed reached was "only" Mach 1.8 where M2.0+ was expected.
The new, longer afterburner did make quite some difference, allowing for the desired M2.0 performance plus a rather sprightlier behaviour up high. This was deemed a resounding success, and there was never any looking back.
The difference in power between these afterburners were actually rather spectacular. Tests confirmed that the combination of more power and less drag meant a difference in thrust equivalent to 11 kN!
On later, heavier marks, an even more powerful engine/afterburner combination, the RM6C/EBK67 was installed (from the J35D and onwards). This was an Avon 300 paired to an EBK66 adapted to the bigger gas generator. This unit put out a whopping 76,3 kN, compared to 72,8 kN from the Avon 301R in a late Lightning!

The difference in output can actually be seen, as the RSwAF historic flight has both a Sk35C, using the smaller Avon and the short afterburner, and a J35J using the final RM6C/EBK67 combination. Look at the difference in size of the flame!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/1e/f0/941ef0bdda77efb1ba6c7b2843cd4be4.jpg)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bt2ZesMlemo/maxresdefault.jpg)

Aaand that was today's nerdery, at your service!  ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 21, 2025, 06:05:46 AM
It LOOKS better with the long tailpipe too, not sure why, but it does.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 21, 2025, 06:40:53 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 21, 2025, 06:05:46 AMIt LOOKS better with the long tailpipe too, not sure why, but it does.

Yup, got a sleeker look to her
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: su27rules on March 21, 2025, 10:13:35 AM
 :wub:  :wub:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 21, 2025, 01:36:13 PM
Having sneaked in some modelling time during the most boring of my generally boring meetings today, I managed a final finetuning of the J35B's nose shape and also made and attached the little air intake for the cockpit systems on the spine behind the canopy, I rounded things off by drilling out a hole for my steel needle nose pitot, and gluing it in. That done, the basic airframe is now All but complete, only leaving that IRST for another day - or rather to when I dig one out.
Also, there's pylons and weaponry to do. And then paint and decals, of course. But if anything gets done this weekend, it'll be the pylons, as we've sodded off to the cottage for some badly needed R&R, leaving most modelling stuff behind.
All in all, it's been nice modelling, these Draken projects, and I'm rather pleased with the turnout, so far, both on this and on its slightly older sibling.

In the general search for system data on these aircraft, I came across the some rather amazing pages on the missile museum homepage. There's loads of detailed info in there, and I'd like to show you one example - namely a very thorough run-through of a radio silent ground controlled radar intercept procedure from the first generation Swedish ground based integrated fighter control where the radar fighter controller leads the fighter into position from where a predetermined attack sequence then can be performed, night or day. Fantastic detail, and really interesting to see what they actually could do already 60 years ago.
The link is >HERE< (https://www-aef-se.translate.goog/Avionik/Artiklar/System_J35BD/System_J35BD.htm?_x_tr_sl=sv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=sv&_x_tr_pto=wapp), and while this is a specific Swedish system and procedure, I would imagine the Lightnings of the RAF were led in pretty similar fashion when performing QRA duties back in the day. Enjoy, but please note that this is a Google Translate from the original page, written in Swedish, so there might be the odd peculiarity in the text. F.i, "flotilla" is wing, and "division" squadron. But I hope it's readable nonetheless.


Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on March 22, 2025, 03:17:01 AM
Well, that was comprehensive! :blink:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 22, 2025, 03:59:02 PM
Slow, lovely day today, but I still got around to make two pairs of J35 F5 pylons, i.e the heavier underwing Draken weapon pylons. One for each of my two early Drakens. And I glued them on. Only the IRST left, it seems.
And the bleeding armament, of course. Yes, I'm rambling. But I just can't seem to make up my mind!

But it'll be for another day. And in the meantime, I'll probably tweak the backstory a bit further, writing in my Mod 4 AJ35 as well. Just because I can.

Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 23, 2025, 02:15:13 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 22, 2025, 03:59:02 PMbackstory a bit further, writing in my Mod 4 AJ35

Looking forward to that! :wub:

Any chance of the model to go with it? Big, dogtooth wing, canard moustache, a real stunner.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 23, 2025, 05:20:55 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 23, 2025, 02:15:13 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 22, 2025, 03:59:02 PMbackstory a bit further, writing in my Mod 4 AJ35

Looking forward to that! :wub:

Any chance of the model to go with it? Big, dogtooth wing, canard moustache, a real stunner.


Oh, it's built since a couple of years. I never got so far as to arm it, but it's painted and decals are on.  Just lacking the bang stuff and the backstory, so why not integrate it with its older siblings? Bad pic here, and since, it actually did get a pitot in the nose as well

IMG_0057.jpeg



Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 23, 2025, 05:56:29 AM
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 24, 2025, 08:53:36 AM
Just finetuning the backstory a bit, adding all Swedish Draken versions, real or whif, and also sorting a few mistakes, in anticipation of getting poised for paint shop. You'll have to bear with the full novel format.. ;)

*********

The SAAB 35 Draken in Royal Swedish Air Force service

Already within a year after the first flight of the SAAB 29 Tunnan in 1948, the next generation of jet fighter was being put into development. While the Tunnan certainly was a major leap ahead in comparison to the Vampires they were replacing, the Royal Swedish Air Force was sorely aware that much more challenging opponents were in the curtains.
The target for the engineering team at SAAB was an entirely new aircraft, forming the airborne part of a new, semiautomatic combat control system, the STRIL60, that was to be able to defeat fast, high flying opponents in all weathers and at all times during the day and year. To reach these targets, the new fighter would have to be solidly supersonic and equipped with a radar to, regardless of weather or lighting conditions, be able to independently complete the intercept once vectored into the general vicinity of the opponent. On top of this, the emerging threats from the new cold war meant that the new aircraft would have to be independent of big air bases, rather optimised to disperse and operate from remote road bases and small airfields for an extended period of time. To make this even remotely possible from a Swedish financial perspective, the aircraft would have to be relatively small, manned by a single aircrew and also be maintainable by a relatively small team of conscript technicians, lead by a single professional technical officer or NCO.

The design team, lead by aeronautical engineer Erik Bratt, started from research by the German engineer Alexander Lippisch on delta wings, and from 1951, one of Lippisch's students, Hermann Behrbohm, was attached to the project team. In 1955, the first prototype of the new SAAB 35 took to the air and in 1959, the first serially produced aircraft rolled out of the SAAB factory in Linköping. The new fighter was versatile, fast and surprisingly agile for a tail-less delta, and it's ruggedness and simplicity made it well suited to the comprehensive system of dispersal airstrips being constructed throughout Sweden, utilising entirely new reserve air bases, as well as civil airfields that got extended and hardened runways, and also widened sections of public roads.

In the meantime, missile development was ongoing and a prototype missile, the rather large Rb321, was tested from groundbased launchers. The progress was however not quite as desired, so eventually, an offer from the US for AIM-9B Sidewinders was received and accepted, leading to the termination of the Rb321 development before any air launches were made. However, integration of the AIM-9B would come first during 1963, so in the meantime, the two fixed Aden cannons was the only armament available. Also, a single 530 litre drop tank could be carried on a centerline pylon.
Once the Sidewinders were available, however, either two of them could be carried, one under each outer wing in combination with the drop tank, or two more missiles could replace the tank on an inverted Y pylon on the centerline, however leaving the aircraft rather short on fuel. Alternatively, six pairs of 13,5 cm Bofors attack rockets could be fitted on rails under the outer wings, giving a rudimentary if effective strike capability

Within a year, the first squadron at the F13 Wing in Norrköping was receiving new J35A's from the SAAB factory in nearby Linköping, converting from the J29F Tunnan. Tactical testing and development commenced, but soon it was found that performance was severely restricted above 13 000 m. The reason was some lack of thrust from the existing RM6B/EBK65 combination (a slightly improved RR Avon Mk48A paired with a locally designed afterburner) and lead to the development of a new, longer afterburner, causing an extension of the tailcone and necessitating the characteristic spur wheel installation of the later Drakens.

During 1960-1961, 90 J35A's were built, and the new afterburner, the EBK66, was introduced in production from serial no 35066, giving significantly more thrust and less supersonic drag, in particular at high altitudes. The first 65 airframes weren't rebuilt, however, and officially, these two physically different variants were designated J35A1 and J35A2, but in service, they were referred to as J35A "short" and "long", respectively.
Of these, serial no's 35008-35040 were delivered without radar as the planned, domestically developed radar wasn't ready. Instead they featured the same reflection gunsight as the J29 Tunnan. From 35041, however, a somewhat simpler radar than originally specified was installed, bought from Thomson CSF in France. This was basically a glorified gun ranging radar, but it could also be used to assist in targeting the IR missile in worse weather, but not to search for targets independently.
As the STRIL60 communications link also wasn't ready in time, all J35A's would lack the voiceless command link, instead having to rely on verbal communication via radio from the combat control centers, dug deep into the Swedish bedrock.

25 early short and radarless Drakens were taken back by SAAB already during 1961 for modification to unarmed two seater trainers. This was an afterthought by the RSwAF. The old and experienced test pilots at SAAB had deemed the flight characteristics of the new fighter good enough for "any reasonably trained fighter pilot" to handle solo, but the Air Force soon found that to be somewhat optimistic in practice. SAAB simply cut the Draken airframe in half, building new two seat front fuselages and then marrying them to the existing rear halves. The unarmed twoseater was dubbed Sk35C (the "B" denomination already being occupied by the properly radar equipped follow-on to the "A" already in progress) and designed to easily be reconfigured back into a J35A armed fighter, should the need arise.

In the meantime, a follow-on batch for 72 new Drakens was ordered. As target speeds had increased, the RSwAF wanted more power, and the next Avon engine, the big bore Avon 300/RM6C was planned for this series, as was a better radar, the PS03/A, and a fire control system centering around the S7 sighting unit. However, none of these were available when SAAB, having gotten a head start by using the leftover J35A front fuselages from the two seater conversions and building new rear fuselages to match, was ready to deliver. Instead, the existing RM6B/EBK66 combination was used, and while the first batch of aircraft (again) were delivered without radar, after some delay, the radar/FCS combination was rolled out over the entire fleet, allowing collision course intercepts to be executed. However, as the early Sidewinder was all but useless unless seeing directly into the exhaust of the target, a 19-round rocket pod carrying 75 mm Bofors unguided rockets was developed, featuring stramlined frangible fairings to minimise drag . Another difference when compared to the J35A was that the B finally got the STRIL60 data link to facilitate radio voiceless ground controlled interception, a first outside the USA!
Later, they all would get new ejection seats in waves, eventually featuring true zero-zero capability, but necessitating a reconstruction of the cabin, lowering the floor. The higher seat would however still make the headroom between the pilots head and the canopy rather minimal, triggering the development of a new, bulged canopy for the later Draken marks. No A or B, and only two D airframes were however ever fitted with the new canopy, while all newbuilt E and F Drakens would have them.

The first J35B's went to F16 in Uppsala. They didn't stay for long, however. In 1963, following the missile integration, some radar installations where such was missing, and some other minor upgrades, all remaining J35A's were reassigned from F13 to F16, as F13 were taking on the next generation of Draken fighters, the J35D. Most of the J35B's instead went to F18, south of Stockholm, where they would remain until the F18 wing was disbanded in 1974, and after which they went into storage. However, about 30 B airframes went from F16 to F10 in southernmost Sweden, equipping one sqn while the F10 wing's other two sqn's soldiered on with the J34 Hawker Hunter for a few years more.
The J35A's would remain at F16, together with the Sk35C-equipped OCU, until replaced in 1977 by the final newbuild Draken version, the J35F. By then, they had gained a small forward looking IR camera under the nose that integrated into the sight, improving night fighter capability. When phased out, most of the remaining A's were put in storage.

The next version, the J35D, was again pioneered by the F13 Wing in Norrköping. Finally, the more powerful engine/afterburner combination, the Avon 300/RM6C paired with an adapted EBK66, the EBK67 was available and made the D model the fastest Draken yet, easily breaking the Mach 2 wall. This powerplant produced a whopping 77.3 kN, almost 5 kN more that the contemporary British Lightning F.3 installation. Internally, significantly more fuel for the thirstier engine was stored and some other changes were made, among other things replacing the single centerline pylon with a pair of pylons, slightly offset to each side under the belly. This doubled the external fuel carriage, from one to two 530 litre drop tanks. when not used for missiles or rockets pods. Further, the increased airflow of the bigger engine required reworked and extended air intakes, now protruding a little bit further beside the cockpit and also having thinner lips. Besides the longer intakes, the main external giveaway of the new version was that the fin was changed somewhat as the pitot previously located just ahead/below the tip now was moved all the way up. 

The first 29 airframes delivered lacked radar due to delays in development (again!) and were soon stored. In 1966, they would be returned to SAAB and modified into the next version, the reconnaissance S35E. The rest, however, was brought up to a common standard featuring an upgraded FCS, still based on the PS03/A radar but including an upgraded S7A sight and an improved autopilot.
Around 90 J35D's, however, were delivered to 5 wings in the RSwAF, among other things finally replacing the last J34 Hunters of the F10 wing, as well as the J32B Lansen interceptors at F4 and F21 wings in northern Sweden.

Preceding the 29 rebuilt J35D's, 31 newbuilt S35E reconnaissance Drakens were delivered from 1965. The development had been ongoing since 1960, and the resulting aircraft was basically an unarmed J35D, featuring the more powerful RM6C/EBK67 setup. Most new builds featured the new bulged canopy, but more important was a new camera nose instead of the radar in the fighters. Also the guns in the wings were replaced by cameras. Finally, the underwing pylons were made wet, facilitating twice as much external fuel to be carried. Initially, two sqns at the F11 reconnaissance wing in Nyköping converted to the S35E, changing from the old S29C Tunnan. The step in performance and capability was rather dramatic, going from a firmly subsonic 1940's design to a Mach 2 capable machine, but the conversion went generally well. Later, a third sqn, the 211 sqn of the northern F21 wing, also got reconnaissance Drakens.

Whereas both the J35D and the S35E generally were seen as reliable, good aircraft, with time, the RM6C engine turned out to be somewhat more troublesome than the smallbore RM6B of the earlier marks had been. Quite a few engine breakdowns caused airframe and even some pilot losses, and even more so in the S35E fleet who spent most of their time in more severe turbulence down on the deck in contrast to the high altitude interceptors. This prompted a series of investigations and redesigns, eventually turning also the RM6C into a rather dependable power plant.
The S35E would be continuously updated throughout its career, receiving more and more competent ESM and ECM equipment, including dispensers for chaff and flares and eventually, in the 1980's, a pair of light missile pylons for AIM-9 missiles under the air intakes in order to facilitate some self defence capability.
In the mid 1970's, the planned Reconnaissance Draken successor, the SF37 photo reconnaissance Viggen, was about to enter service, and as a cost cutting measure, two of the five recon sqns were to be disbanded, the remaining three being reallocated to fighter wings, as had already been the case with no 211 sqn in Luleå. Accordingly, the F11 wing was to disband altogether in 1978.  However, as will be described below, events overtook this decision and the reconnaissance wing was reestablished in 1980 after less than a year and a half, but now fielding all remaining S35E airframes, as no 211 sqn in Luleå had received its Viggens in 1979. The two other recon Viggen sqns were kept as well, but as parts of F13 and F17 wings, respectively. The reconnaissance Drakens of F11 remained in service until finally replaced by multirole JAS39 Gripens in 1999.

The final new build Swedish Draken version was the fighter J35F. The development of this version was prompted by the increasing speed of the opponents, in particular the Tupolev Tu-22, capable of Mach 2 dashes. This made tail chase interception difficult, and while both the STRIL60 GCI system as well as the Draken itself was capable of setting up head-on attacks, unguided rockets had proven less than satisfatory. Accordingly, better weapon systems were sought after and found in the Hughes AIM-4 system. While principally more complicated and less agile than the Sidewinder, the Falcon missile wasn't as bad as later sources have claimed. Or rather - the Sidewinder wasn't that much better at all, something soon proven by the Americans over Vietnam. However, the significantly better IR tracker of the Hughes missile made lock-on on approaching aircraft possible, provided that these flew fast enough to have been heated somewhat by air friction. Also, a semi active radar guided variant was available, but with the drawback that rather than being a fire-and-forget weapon, the attacking aircraft would have to paint the target with its radar until the missile scored a hit, thereby complicating any evasive action. However, as the main Swedish tactics wasn't to unnecessarily engage in dogfighting, but rather pop by, pop the enemy and pop home again, and also, most enemies encountered would likely be not so manoeuvrable bomber or heavily laden attack aircraft, this was deemed acceptable.
Protracted studies went on during the first years of the 1960's, but in 1963, the GAR-3A (AIM-4F) was chosen against the SARH requirement as the Rb27. The IR missile chosen was however not the IR equivalent to GAR-3A, the GAR-4A (AIM-4G) but  rather the slightly smaller, more agile and much cheaper GAR-2A (AIM-4C). The reason for this choice beyond cost was that while the Rb27 was seen as the primary antibomber weapon, the smaller GAR-2A was selected to increase the kill chances against smaller and more agile targets such as fighters. However, the Swedes substituted the original seeker head with the much improved head from the GAR-4A and the new missile, designated Rb28 in Sweden and later AIM-4D by the Americans, was also bought by the USAF.
The Rb28 missile originally had contact fuses, necessitating the missile to physically hit the target aircraft to trigger the warhead. While theoretically acceptable against less agile bombers, this was a potential problem when fighting smaller airframes such as fighterbombers. Sweden thus entered into developing a laser proximity fuse for its IR missiles, allowing the warhead to go off when the missile was passing in the vicinity of the target, performing the kill with the fragmentation warhead. This made the Swedish missiles very different from the Falcons so loathed by the USAF ace Robin Olds in Vietnam. The SARH Rb27 was from the start equipped with a radar proximity fuse, but the functionality was severely limited in lower altitudes, generally triggering detonation against ground clutter below 700m.
To manage these new missiles, a new fire control system had to be introduced into the J35F. This was closely modelled on the Hughes system in the F-102 Delta Dart interceptors, but extensively redesigned to work under Swedish conditions and with the Swedish STRIL60 system. Consisting of several units integrating the missiles with the new radar, the PS01/A and the new aiming system, the S7B, these electronics displaced the port ADEN cannon, leaving only the starboard gun with 120 rounds in the new J35F.

The F's followed the final D's off the production line at SAAB in Linköping, the first batch again going to the Norrköping F13 wing. After 100 airframes, however, yet another new piece of equipment was introduced in the form of a locally improved variant of the Hughes 71N IRST placed in a fairing under the nose, triggering an improved version of the PS01/A radar, the PS011/A. The IRST was fully integrated in the fire control system, enabling target search and tracking also under severe ECM conditions. An even more significant improvement was that the IRST together with the new radar variant minimised problems with radar ground clutter interference, making targeting of low flying targets much easier, where they could be prosecuted by IR missiles or guns.
As the IRST equipped J35F's were being delivered, the tactical advantage in comparison to the non-IRST equipped F's was very evident, leading to these being designated J35F2 while the J35F's without were redesignated J35F1. As more F2's were available, the airframes were redistributed among the squadrons mixing the F1's and F2's evenly to make most use of the improved search and track facilities of the F2. With 230 airframes delivered, the J35F became the most numerous variant, equipping seven RSwAF wings.

During the 1960's and 1970's, the European peace movement had been heavily infiltrated by KGB and the Soviet support had activated several European left extremist terror groups, such as the Rote Armee Fraktion in West Germany and the Brigata Rossi in Italy. Also, regular spy activities were high and in several countries bordering the Baltic, Soviet incursions were made by small submersibles, possibly landing and recovering agents and sabotage teams. Following the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 and then the fall of the Shah in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Soviets, apparently encouraged by their successes, went on an offensive across the board. Large, aggresive Warsaw pact exercises were held, at least yearly, and in the early 1980's, these tended to include practice large air assaults across the Baltic sea, targeting not only the NATO countries, but also Sweden.
These events in combination with the generally more unruly situation between the superpowers led to Sweden reconsidering the military cutbacks decided during the early years of the 1970's, instead rapidly rearming itself. As a consequence, several fighter wings were reestablished, and older aircraft were taken out of storage to fill out the new squadrons. While the fighter Viggen variant, the JA37 now was entering service in small numbers (again pioneered by the F13 wing), the less capable Draken still comprised the bulk of the Swedish air defence system. In particular, the J35D lacked radar controlled missiles, limiting them to more inefficient tail chases.
In addition to the fighter deficiencies, in the early 1980's, plans for the replacing the AJ37 Viggen strike aircraft with a new multirole fighter had ran aground, leaving the Swedish attack component potentially dangerously weak towards the end of the decade. At the same time, engine problems with the new JA37 Viggen interceptor variant had led to delays in the deliveries, causing a need to keep the Draken fighters in service longer than planned. A quick and dirty remedy was sought, preferably managing the strike requirement while also boosting the fighter numbers while the delivery of JA37 Viggen interceptors was sorted out.

Initially, as a stop-gap solution, stored J35F's were reintroduced in service, adding to the existing active Draken fleet, but it was soon realised that neither did numbers suffice, nor did the avionics and weapon systems compare too well against the then current competition. Also, standard air-to-air optimised Drakens with unguided air-to-ground rockets did little to improve on the future lack of strike aircraft. Several different ideas were investigated, including procuring foreign secondhand aircraft, but the quickest and also cheapest solution was found to be an upgrade of the existing Drakens, adding relevant strike capabilities while preferably also tweaking the air-to-air capability somewhat. While also the older, less powerful and less sophisticated J35A/B versions still were kept in storage, it was deemed too complicated to bring these all the way, whereas the more powerful J35D/F variants provided a more reasonable starting point for a rebuild.

To manage fighter numbers while rebuilding the D/F fleet, a more limited upgrade was considered for the long A's and the B's, of which 71 airframes were remaining. On reactivation, these aircraft were to be upgraded with the improved FCS, radar and IRST of the J35F2, thereby not only finally getting fully integrated in the STRIL60 system, but also gaining the capability for collision course intercepts with the Rb27/28 SARH/IR Falcon missiles in addition to their existing Sidewinders. As a consequence, they lost the port cannon to make room for the new missile control electronics. However, these older Drakens still only had three hardpoints, of which one usually was occupied by a drop tank, so new, light missile pylons, matched to the new AIM-9J (and later L) missiles were added under the intakes, increasing missile load to four rounds. To offset range issues, new drop tanks, containing 1275 litres and borrowed from the SAAB 35XD design for Denmark, were bought but still only used on the single centerline pylon.

As the upgrade was decided and budgeted, someone suggested looking at the 23 remaining short A's as well, given that development of technology and tooling already was paid for, and as it was found that adding these aircraft to the main programme only would increase the total budget with about 6%, the decision to go ahead with a similar upgrade was taken, despite the somewhat lower performance of these earlier machines.
As an afterthought, also the 21 Sk35C's were given the same upgrade, giving them equal capability to the short A's, but for the right hand Aden cannon as that space already was used for fuel. While less useful for peacetime patrols due to the lack of cannon, they would be able to form an emergency fighter sqn in wartime.

The short A's went back to their former home in Uppsala, joining their technically very similar Sk35C's at the J35 OCU and forming the 161st fighter sqn, F16 Wing, flying alongside the J35F's of the 162nd and 163rd sqns. Having reached operational status, they were assigned to the low altitude air defence of the greater Stockholm area, and in wartime, they would have been accompanied by the Sk35C's, who would have formed the 164th (reserve) sqn in time of war. The remaining long J35A's, post upgrade being similar to the J35B, joined these at the reestablished F18 Wing, south of Stockholm, where they equipped four peacetime sqns, the 181 through 184 sqn. In case of an attack from the east (in reality the only scenario trained for), it was however anticipated that at least one of these sqns would be flown over the Gulf of Bothnia and handed over to the Finnish Ilmavoimaat, reinforcing the six J35B's already operational there. In preparation for this, the Finns throughout the Cold War always trained about twice the amount of pilots needed to operate their Drakens.

The upgraded J35A/B fleet soldiered on during the tensions of the 1980's and 1990's, providing good service for a limited cost. During the early 1990's, various system upgrades such as a new monopulse seeker head and a better proximity fuse for the Rb27, together with an upgraded version of the PS011/A, the PS011/B,  significantly improved not only ECM tolerance, but also all but negated the low altitude problems, several missile tests resulting in kills as low as at 50 m altitude. Another major improvement was an entirely new boost-sustain rocket motor for the Rb27, increasing the kill radius to at least 25 km.
However, as the first JAS39 Gripens finally entered service in the late 1990's, these the least capable and now forty-year-old Drakens were the first to go, being replaced by new Gripens, as they became available.

The upgrade of the D/F fleet would however be significantly more complex, but some design work could be borrowed from already existing designs. Ever since the first flight of the Draken prototype in October 1955, SAAB had pursued export sales of the Draken. Several countries were courted and some contracts were closed. Differing from most others however, Denmark looked primarily not for an interceptor but for a fighterbomber, leading to the redesign of the J35D/F hull from a medium to high altitude fighter to a low level strike/reconnaissance aircraft. System changes aside, the most important changes were increasing internal fuel by adding 30% tankage volume and reinforcing mainly the outer wings to cope with low level turbulence and the much heavier war load carried on four new pylons under the outer wings, two under the fuselage and two under the air intakes. Also the landing gear was significantly reinforced to cope with the increased take-off weight, going from just below 12 000 kg to over 16 000 kg. As on the S35E, two of the wing pylons were wet, but the Danish 35XD Drakens could carry twice as big drop tanks, now totalling 4xs1275 litres externally in ferry configuration.

The Swedish fighterbomber upgrade would however be even more ambitious. Entirely new larger outer wings were designed, now featuring a dogtooth leading edge and wingtip missile stations with integrated ECM equipment. Each outer wing now had two hardpoints cleared for 1500 kg, allowing the inner, wet ones to carry either a 35XD drop tank if not used for offensive load. Further, new pylons were provided for under the intakes, either for heavy offensive loads such as the Rb15F anti ship missile, or for lighter air-to-air missiles. The larger internal fuel volume was also carried over from the 35XD and in addition to increased fuel storage in the new outer wings, total internal fuel volume increased by nearly 40% when compared to the original D/F setup. The much higher max take off weight, now well over 17 tonnes, necessitated use of the stronger landing gear developed for the Danish Drakens as well as some key airframe reinforcements brought in while thoroughly refurbishing the entire airframe.
The new wing and the change in aerodynamic properties brought increased manoeuvrability but also a need for a new flight control system to manage the reduced stability of the new airframe. The vicious super stall problem was mostly also eliminated, providing for significantly more careless combat manoeuvering and much better control at high alphas. Also, small retractable canards, or "moustaches", were added just behind the intakes, assisting in maintaining higher alpha at finals, resulting in lower landing speed and shorter landing runs. Still, however, a small fin tip extension was necessary to ensure lateral stability with aerodynamically cumbersome load forward under the intakes.
From a system perspective, a new radar, developed directly from the latest Viggen system was installed, albeit featuring a much smaller antenna disc than in the Viggen given the much smaller Draken nose. This featured both ground attack and intercept modes, allowing for targeting of the Rb15F missile as well as the Rb71 Skyflash SARH air-to-air missile, but due to the small antenna, targeting range was less than for the JA37. Also, new communications and GCI systems were introduced, matching the latest Viggens.

About 180 airframes were rebuilt into the new JA35L version (35G was an export version for Germany, 35H a version for Switzerland, 35I for India, 35J for the Netherlands, and 35K was a version  for Canada and New Zealand) and it was deemed successful. While not dirt cheap, the airframe cost was still only about 60% of that of a new Viggen fighter, and while not fully equal to the JA37 in air-to-air mode, especially BVR, the JA35L was a significant step up from the J35F, and also almost as good an attack aircraft as the AJ37. Moreover, its system layout allowed the pilot to easily switch between air-to-air and ground attack mode while in the air, making the JA35L the first true swing role fighter in the world. In 1998, AIM-120 capability was added, keeping the Draken lethal well into the new century. However, once the J35A/B and AJ37 wings had converted to the new JAS39 Gripen swing role fighter, also the JA35L wings begun their conversion from 2004 and onwards. The last flight was made from F12 in Kalmar on a sunny Thursday in October 2007, finally ending almost fifty years of Royal Swedish Air Force Drakens.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 24, 2025, 12:05:29 PM
Quote from: Pellson on March 24, 2025, 08:53:36 AMsorting a few mistakes

My favourite SF writer, Ursula K le Guin, remarked that archaeological research into the future could be harder than that into the past, as it was more difficult to place one's finds in context and to spot one's mistakes. I find much the same to be true as an air historian of What-If parallel realities.

QuoteYou'll have to bear with the full novel format...
100,000 words would be good... :D

My novel never can catch up with the archaeology...
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on March 24, 2025, 05:22:44 PM
Crikey! :blink:

I'll have to come back to this when I have more time. (Off to work in 10 min.)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 25, 2025, 02:14:40 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 24, 2025, 12:05:29 PM
Quote from: Pellson on March 24, 2025, 08:53:36 AMsorting a few mistakes

My favourite SF writer, Ursula K le Guin, remarked that archaeological research into the future could be harder than that into the past, as it was more difficult to place one's finds in context and to spot one's mistakes. I find much the same to be true as an air historian of What-If parallel realities.
This is all Kits fault, starting with the famous Meteor PR.19..  ;D

The Earthsea series triggered my still enduring love for fantasy literature back almost before I even started modelling. And I have returned to the series repeatedly since, always finding it different, possibly due to me having changed through my walk of life.
Quote
QuoteYou'll have to bear with the full novel format...
100,000 words would be good... :D

My novel never can catch up with the archaeology...

I once thought I would become a writer, scoring extremely well in languages etc throughout school, and actually also being accepted into the prime university journalist programme over here, beating a 300/1 application/spot ratio. But life intervened, and I've been a rather happy engineer, so I can't complain.
I do find sometimes, however, that I lack some writing tools I suspect I would have gotten from taking some of those classes, so many years ago. And maybe, it would have been nice to be able to live in your own imagination to a larger extent?
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: zenrat on March 25, 2025, 02:41:43 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 25, 2025, 02:14:40 AMI once thought I would become a writer, scoring extremely well in languages etc throughout school, and actually also being accepted into the prime university journalist programme over here, beating a 300/1 application/spot ratio. But life intervened, and I've been a rather happy engineer, so I can't complain.
I do find sometimes, however, that I lack some writing tools I suspect I would have gotten from taking some of those classes, so many years ago. And maybe, it would have been nice to be able to live in your own imagination to a larger extent?


Red Top Tabloid journalist then... :mellow:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 25, 2025, 02:50:11 AM
Quote from: zenrat on March 25, 2025, 02:41:43 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 25, 2025, 02:14:40 AMI once thought I would become a writer, scoring extremely well in languages etc throughout school, and actually also being accepted into the prime university journalist programme over here, beating a 300/1 application/spot ratio. But life intervened, and I've been a rather happy engineer, so I can't complain.
I do find sometimes, however, that I lack some writing tools I suspect I would have gotten from taking some of those classes, so many years ago. And maybe, it would have been nice to be able to live in your own imagination to a larger extent?


Red Top Tabloid journalist then... :mellow:

As said, I'm not having any regrets.. ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 25, 2025, 06:11:15 AM
Same but different for me. Born with a passion for fast jets. Wanted to fly 'em for the Royal Navy. Grew giglamps at 16 - would be lucky to drive a Hercy bird, no thanks. Design 'em then. But I was not the people person that a Chief Designer needs to be, and aiming lower was not for me either. Microcomputers arrived just in time to give me a new direction. The story of my life has been all about trying to join up my imagination with reality in some way or other.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 25, 2025, 06:31:07 AM
Quote from: Pellson on March 25, 2025, 02:14:40 AMThis is all Kits fault, starting with the famous Meteor PR.19..  ;D


People keep ON saying that too....................   ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 25, 2025, 06:32:14 AM
Impressive back story  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rheged on March 25, 2025, 09:38:02 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 25, 2025, 06:32:14 AMImpressive back story  :thumbsup:

Indeed it is!.....and we should remember that Pellson is not writing this article in his native tongue, but in a foreign language.  I am extremely impressed.  Well done, sir!
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 25, 2025, 10:09:40 AM
Pellson's English has always impressed me, complete with current colloquialisms too!  :o  ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 25, 2025, 09:27:27 PM
Speaking the language better than the natives... typical Overachiever!  ;) 
All meant with respect, of course!  :thumbsup:

I hate to think what a botch I'd make of anything Scandinavian... my French and German efforts were bad enough - thank goodness most Europeans speak decent English, is all I can say.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 26, 2025, 03:06:14 AM
Your flatter is as exaggerated as it is well received.  :angel:

While on subject - you should hear young Mr P Jr. While overhearing him gaming online a couple of months ago, I had to interrupt and ask where he'd picked up his language - to which he responded "My online mate is Mancunian".
I wasn't even aware the little sod knew of the epithet Mancunian, but I had to admit it made sense..  :rolleyes:

Test fitting two seater components from the Heller kit on the Revell fuselage, I may actually be able to build an Sk35C trainer Draken from another old Revell kit and spares after all. Hmmm... Must source yet another old crap Draken then..
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 26, 2025, 05:21:36 AM
I know a couple of Swedish words, maybe three............

SAAB, Scania & Volvo.  ;D

Oh yes, and ABBA too.  ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 26, 2025, 06:30:56 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on March 25, 2025, 09:27:27 PMI hate to think what a botch I'd make of anything Scandinavian... my French and German efforts were bad enough - thank goodness most Europeans speak decent English, is all I can say.  :rolleyes:

Indeed they do, or at least in places where us Brits are likely to travel. Always wish I'd learned a language at school, but back then Secondary Moderns did't teach languages. Mind you I can read French fairly well, or could up until a few years ago, as most of our industry's official EU documents, and there were thousands of them, were in French as the "legal" language. All our meetings were held in English though unless there was simultanious translation, which was only ever offered in Paris strangely enough  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rheged on March 26, 2025, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 26, 2025, 06:30:56 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on March 25, 2025, 09:27:27 PMI hate to think what a botch I'd make of anything Scandinavian... my French and German efforts were bad enough - thank goodness most Europeans speak decent English, is all I can say.  :rolleyes:

Indeed they do, or at least in places where us Brits are likely to travel. Always wish I'd learned a language at school, but back then Secondary Moderns did't teach languages. Mind you I can read French fairly well, or could up until a few years ago, as most of our industry's official EU documents, and there were thousands of them, were in French as the "legal" language. All our meetings were held in English though unless there was simultanious translation, which was only ever offered in Paris strangely enough  ;D

I suffered from a Grammar School education and have Latin and Classical Greek to "O" level (not that there has been much call for either in day to day life) and French to "A" level  (which I do still use as a National Trust guide).  I am also fluent in Gibberish and Rubbish.  Having two young grand daughters, I have recently  become  able to understand Toddler, even if I can't speak it.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 26, 2025, 11:04:26 AM
Quote from: Rheged on March 26, 2025, 09:44:30 AMHaving two young grand daughters, I have recently  become  able to understand Toddler, even if I can't speak it.


Oddly that seems to be an 'International' language, no matter which country the aforementioned grand-kids come from, they can all understand each other straight away!  :o
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: kerick on March 26, 2025, 12:20:59 PM
Funny how all Toddlers are able to understand Adult language. I'd forgotten how to understand Toddler until my granddaughter turned two. Now it's coming back to me.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 26, 2025, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: Rheged on March 26, 2025, 09:44:30 AMI suffered from a Grammar School education and have Latin and Classical Greek to "O" level (not that there has been much call for either in day to day life) and French to "A" level  (which I do still use as a National Trust guide).

Public School Twit of the Year here. The Latin, French and German I learned have all been useful in my life from time to time. German especially, as so much aerodynamic development was done there. And I like to read Asterix comic books in the original French. Wish I had taken Greek too, as that is useful in my mathematical studies.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: kerick on March 26, 2025, 12:41:54 PM
Some understanding of the pronunciation of Latin and Ancient Greek would have been helpful in science classes without question.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 26, 2025, 01:14:30 PM
I may have mentioned this before, but I got the LOWEST mark ever in my school's Mock O Level Latin exam.

To quote my form master :-

'Spackman, English into Latin, zero marks. Latin into English, one mark. Average, one half!'

Que loud cheers from all my form mates.  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 26, 2025, 01:51:47 PM
Well yes, I did hate Latin and, despite being taught it from the age of seven, was set fair to fail my O level. This Latin master was an evil-tempered disciplinarian so all was as usual. Then one day, something in him snapped. He just couldn't take the bunch of sulky dunderheads in front of him any more. He took up his Virgil, which he had vainly been trying to get us to understand, turned to his favourite passage, and began to read it out loud with great passion. It was basically an epic poem and as the poetry flowed through him his face lit up with a transcendent glow we could never have imagined in such an old sourpuss. The sounds rolled around the classroom, his eyes half-closed in ecstacy as he recited by heart. It finally dawned on me that there might be something to this Latin mental torture after all, if it could move such a hardened heart of stone as his.
Next year was O level year and we got an amiable and decrepit dodderer. He was so long-suffering and good about our awful indifference, it shamed me into actually revising for my exam, and I scraped through. A posthumous thank you to both of them.

Did I mention Ursula K le Guin? She wrote a historical novel, Lavinia, around a character in that poem. It's on my bookshelf right now.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: kerick on March 26, 2025, 02:23:38 PM
There's nothing more ineffective as a teacher than someone who loves the subject to no end and expects students to love it just as much. Then gets mad and then eventually turns into the sourpuss when they don't. It's like they just can't conceive a normal person not loving Latin or whatever.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on March 27, 2025, 02:12:56 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 26, 2025, 01:51:47 PMWell yes, I did hate Latin and, despite being taught it from the age of seven, was set fair to fail my O level. This Latin master was an evil-tempered disciplinarian so all was as usual. Then one day, something in him snapped. He just couldn't take the bunch of sulky dunderheads in front of him any more. He took up his Virgil, which he had vainly been trying to get us to understand, turned to his favourite passage, and began to read it out loud with great passion. It was basically an epic poem and as the poetry flowed through him his face lit up with a transcendent glow we could never have imagined in such an old sourpuss. The sounds rolled around the classroom, his eyes half-closed in ecstacy as he recited by heart. It finally dawned on me that there might be something to this Latin mental torture after all, if it could move such a hardened heart of stone as his.
Next year was O level year and we got an amiable and decrepit dodderer. He was so long-suffering and good about our awful indifference, it shamed me into actually revising for my exam, and I scraped through. A posthumous thank you to both of them.


Wonderful  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on March 27, 2025, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on March 27, 2025, 02:12:56 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on March 26, 2025, 01:51:47 PMWell yes, I did hate Latin and, despite being taught it from the age of seven, was set fair to fail my O level. This Latin master was an evil-tempered disciplinarian so all was as usual. Then one day, something in him snapped. He just couldn't take the bunch of sulky dunderheads in front of him any more. He took up his Virgil, which he had vainly been trying to get us to understand, turned to his favourite passage, and began to read it out loud with great passion. It was basically an epic poem and as the poetry flowed through him his face lit up with a transcendent glow we could never have imagined in such an old sourpuss. The sounds rolled around the classroom, his eyes half-closed in ecstacy as he recited by heart. It finally dawned on me that there might be something to this Latin mental torture after all, if it could move such a hardened heart of stone as his.
Next year was O level year and we got an amiable and decrepit dodderer. He was so long-suffering and good about our awful indifference, it shamed me into actually revising for my exam, and I scraped through. A posthumous thank you to both of them.


Wonderful  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Yes; a great story, and lesson - you never know the journey someone has taken to get to where you see them.
<pontifical mode OFF for the weekend - I promise!>  ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 31, 2025, 09:39:06 AM
No progress whatsoever, but during some lazy surfing, I stumbled across Roy Cross's lovely box top painting for the Airfix Draken. So I'm just copying it in for inspiration.

 IMG_0070.jpeg

One could have the odd objection, such as the missile being fired is green and hence blind, but I'm willing to forgive that just because it's so nice despite the odd quirk.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 31, 2025, 09:53:32 AM
Erm, no visible pic.

I think you linked it to your own PC rather than an image storage site. :(
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on March 31, 2025, 12:18:05 PM
Can see the pic fine.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on March 31, 2025, 12:23:53 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 31, 2025, 09:53:32 AMErm, no visible pic.

I think you linked it to your own PC rather than an image storage site. :(

It's not linked at all, mate, but uploaded to the forum, so should be fine. And if not, I bet all of you know the pic by heart.. ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on April 01, 2025, 05:25:04 AM
Image is showing fine for me, and it does remind you how that Roy Cross artwork sold kits  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 01, 2025, 01:12:31 PM
Now it's showing up.  :thumbsup:

Sometimes I think the Net just hates me................ :(
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 01, 2025, 09:15:26 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 01, 2025, 05:25:04 AMImage is showing fine for me, and it does remind you have how that Roy Cross artwork sold kits  :thumbsup:
Would be difficult to create a Draken portrait that doesn't sell it!
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 05, 2025, 08:49:00 AM
Further reworks, just because I want to, and because I find it rewarding to compose a coherent what-if story while staying as close to reality as possible.
Be advised that further changes may occur in due course
(I'm having too much fun with this not to, methinks  :angel: )

*********

The SAAB 35 Draken in Royal Swedish Air Force service

Already within a year after the first flight of the SAAB 29 Tunnan in 1948, the next generation of jet fighter was being put into development. While the Tunnan certainly was a major leap ahead in comparison to the Vampires they were replacing, the Royal Swedish Air Force was sorely aware that much more challenging opponents were in the curtains.
The target for the engineering team at SAAB was an entirely new aircraft, forming the airborne part of a new, semiautomatic combat control system, the STRIL60, that was to be able to defeat fast, high flying opponents in all weathers and at all times during the day and year. To reach these targets, the new fighter would have to be solidly supersonic and equipped with a radar to, regardless of weather or lighting conditions, be able to independently complete the intercept once vectored into the general vicinity of the opponent. On top of this, the emerging threats from the new cold war meant that the new aircraft would have to be independent of big air bases, rather optimised to disperse and operate from remote road bases and small airfields for an extended period of time. To make this even remotely possible from a Swedish financial perspective, the aircraft would have to be relatively small, manned by a single aircrew and also be maintainable by a relatively small team of conscript technicians, lead by a single professional technical officer or NCO.

The design team, lead by aeronautical engineer Erik Bratt, started from research by the German engineer Alexander Lippisch on delta wings, and from 1951, one of Lippisch's students, Hermann Behrbohm, was attached to the project team. In 1955, the first prototype of the new SAAB 35 took to the air and in 1959, the first serially produced aircraft rolled out of the SAAB factory in Linköping. The new fighter was versatile, fast and surprisingly agile for a tail-less delta, and it's ruggedness and simplicity made it well suited to the comprehensive system of dispersal airstrips being constructed throughout Sweden, utilising entirely new reserve air bases, as well as civil airfields that got extended and hardened runways, and also widened sections of public roads.

In the meantime, missile development was ongoing and a prototype missile, the rather large Rb321, was tested from groundbased launchers. The progress was however not quite as desired, so eventually, an offer from the US for AIM-9B Sidewinders was received and accepted, leading to the termination of the Rb321 development before any air launches were made. However, integration of the AIM-9B would come first during 1963, so in the meantime, the two fixed Aden cannons was the only armament available. Also, a single 530 litre drop tank could be carried on a centerline pylon.
Once the Sidewinders were available, however, either two of them could be carried, one under each outer wing in combination with the drop tank, or two more missiles could replace the tank on an inverted Y pylon on the centerline, however leaving the aircraft rather short on fuel. Alternatively, six pairs of 13,5 cm Bofors attack rockets could be fitted on rails under the outer wings, giving a rudimentary if effective strike capability

Within a year, the first squadron at the F13 Wing in Norrköping was receiving new J35A's from the SAAB factory in nearby Linköping, converting from the J29F Tunnan. Tactical testing and development commenced, but soon it was found that performance was severely restricted above 13 000 m. The reason was some lack of thrust from the existing RM6B/EBK65 combination (a slightly improved RR Avon Mk48A paired with a locally designed afterburner) and lead to the development of a new, longer afterburner, causing an extension of the tailcone and necessitating the characteristic spur wheel installation of the later Drakens.

During 1960-1961, 90 J35A's were built, and the new afterburner, the EBK66, was introduced in production from serial no 35066, giving significantly more thrust and less supersonic drag, in particular at high altitudes. The first 65 airframes weren't rebuilt, however, and officially, these two physically different variants were designated J35A1 and J35A2, but in service, they were referred to as J35A "short" and "long", respectively.
Of these, serial no's 35008-35040 were delivered without radar as the planned, domestically developed radar wasn't ready. Instead they featured the same reflection gunsight as the J29 Tunnan. From 35041, however, a somewhat simpler radar than originally specified was installed, bought from Thomson CSF in France. This was basically a glorified gun ranging radar, but it could also be used to assist in targeting the IR missile in worse weather, but not to search for targets independently.
Also the STRIL60 communications link wasn't ready in time, so all J35A's would lack the voiceless command link, instead having to rely on verbal communication via radio from the combat control centers, dug deep into the Swedish bedrock.

25 early short and radarless Drakens were taken back by SAAB already during 1961 for modification to unarmed two seater trainers. This was an afterthought by the RSwAF. The old and experienced test pilots at SAAB had deemed the flight characteristics of the new fighter good enough for "any reasonably trained fighter pilot" to handle solo, but the Air Force soon found that to be somewhat optimistic in practice and ordered a conversion trainer. Making things easy, SAAB simply cut the existing Draken airframe in half, built a new two seat front fuselage and then married that to the existing rear half. The unarmed twoseater was dubbed Sk35C (the "B" denomination already being occupied by the properly radar equipped follow-on to the "A" already in progress, and being described below). An interesting feature of the C variant was that the modular construction allowed for the trainer to easily be reconfigured back into a J35A armed fighter, should the need arise.
The J35A's were transferred to F16 in Uppsala already during 1963 as F13 received a later Draken version. There they would remain, together with the Sk35C-equipped OCU, until replaced in 1977 by the final newbuild Draken version, the J35F. By then, they had gained a small forward looking IR camera under the nose that integrated into the sight, improving night fighter capability. When phased out, most of the remaining A's were put in storage.

In the meantime, a follow-on batch of 72 new Drakens had been ordered, the J35B. As target speeds had increased, the RSwAF wanted more power, and the next Avon engine, the big bore Avon 300/RM6C was planned for this series, as was a better radar, the PS03/A, and a fire control system centering around the S7 sighting unit. Again, the avionics were delayed but also the new RM6C was unavailable when SAAB was ready to deliver, having gotten a head start by using the leftover J35A front fuselages from the two seater conversions and building new rear fuselages to match. Instead, the existing RM6B/EBK66 combination from the later J35A's was used, and while the first batch of aircraft (again) were delivered without radar, in time, the radar/FCS combination was rolled out over the entire fleet, now allowing collision course intercepts to be executed. However, as the early Sidewinder was all but useless unless seeing directly into the exhaust of the target, to make any use of the new capability, a 19-round rocket pod carrying 75 mm Bofors unguided rockets was developed, featuring streamlined frangible fairings to minimise drag. These were usually carried in pairs on an inverted Y-pylon on the centre pylon. Another difference when compared to the J35A was that the B finally got the STRIL60 data link to facilitate radio voiceless ground controlled interception, a first outside the USA!
Later, they all would get new ejection seats, installed in the field and eventually featuring true zero-zero capability, but necessitating a reconstruction of the cabin, lowering the floor. Despite this, the higher seat would make the headroom between the pilots head and the canopy rather minimal, triggering the development of a new, bulged canopy for the later Draken marks. No A or B, and only two D airframes were however ever fitted with the new canopy, while all newbuilt E and F Drakens would have them.

The first J35B's went to F16 in Uppsala. They didn't stay for long, however. In 1963, following the missile integration, some radar installations where such was missing, and some other minor upgrades, all remaining J35A's were reassigned from F13 to F16, as F13 were taking on the next generation of Draken fighters, the J35D. Most of the J35B's instead went to F18, south of Stockholm, where they would remain until the F18 wing was disbanded in 1974, and after which they went into storage. However, about 30 B airframes went from F16 to F10 in southernmost Sweden, equipping one sqn while the F10 wing's other two sqn's soldiered on with older aircraft,  one sqn with the J29F Tunnan and the other with the J34 Hawker Hunter for a few years more.
The next version, the J35D, was again pioneered by the F13 Wing in Norrköping. Finally, the more powerful engine/afterburner combination, the Avon 300/RM6C and EBK67, was available and made the D model the fastest Draken yet, easily breaking the Mach 2 wall. This powerplant produced a whopping 77.3 kN, almost 5 kN more that the contemporary British Lightning F.3 installation. Internally, significantly more fuel for the thirstier engine was stored and some other changes were made, among other things replacing the single centerline pylon with a pair of pylons, slightly offset to each side under the belly. This doubled the external fuel carriage, from one to two 530 litre drop tanks, when not used for missiles or rockets pods. Further, the increased airflow of the bigger engine required reworked and extended air intakes, now protruding a little bit further beside the cockpit and also having thinner lips. Besides the longer intakes, the main external giveaway of the new version was that the fin was changed somewhat as the pitot previously located just ahead/below the tip now was moved all the way up. 

The first 29 airframes delivered lacked radar due to delays in development (again!) and were soon stored. In 1966, they would be returned to SAAB and modified into the next version, the reconnaissance S35E. The rest, however, was brought up to a common standard featuring an improved FCS, still based on the PS03/A radar but including an upgraded S7A sight and a better autopilot.
Around 90 J35D's were delivered to 5 wings in the RSwAF, finally replacing the last J34 Hunters of the F10 wing, as well as the J32B Lansen interceptors at F4 and F21 wings in northern Sweden.

Preceding the 29 rebuilt J35D's, 31 newbuilt S35E reconnaissance Drakens had been delivered from 1965. The development had been ongoing since 1960, and the resulting aircraft was basically an unarmed J35D, featuring the more powerful RM6C/EBK67 setup. Most new builds featured the new bulged canopy, but more important was a new camera nose instead of the radar in the fighters. Also the guns in the wings were replaced by cameras. Finally, the underwing pylons were made wet, facilitating twice as much external fuel to be carried. Initially, two sqns at the F11 reconnaissance wing in Nyköping converted to the S35E, changing from the old S29C Tunnan. The step in performance and capability was rather dramatic, going from a firmly subsonic 1940's design to a Mach 2 capable machine, but the conversion went generally well. Later, a third sqn, the 211 sqn of the northern F21 wing, also got reconnaissance Drakens.

The RM6C engine of these second generation Drakens turned out to be somewhat more troublesome than the smallbore RM6B of the earlier marks had been. Quite a few engine breakdowns caused airframe and even some pilot losses, and even more so in the S35E fleet who spent most of their time in more severe turbulence down on the deck in contrast to the high altitude interceptors. This prompted a series of investigations and redesigns, eventually turning also the RM6C into a rather dependable power plant.
The S35E would be continuously updated throughout its career, receiving more and more competent ESM and ECM equipment, including dispensers for chaff and flares and eventually, in the 1980's, a pair of light missile pylons for AIM-9 missiles under the air intakes in order to facilitate some self defence capability.
In the mid 1970's, the planned Reconnaissance Draken successor, the SF37 photo reconnaissance Viggen, was about to enter service, and as a cost cutting measure, two of the five recon sqns were to be disbanded, the remaining three being reallocated to fighter wings, as had already been the case with no 211 sqn in Luleå. Accordingly, the F11 wing was to disband altogether in 1978.  However, as will be described below, events overtook this decision and the reconnaissance wing was reestablished in 1980 after less than a year and a half, but now fielding all remaining S35E airframes, as no 211 sqn in Luleå had received its Viggens in 1979. The two other recon Viggen sqns were kept as well, but as parts of F13 and F17 wings, respectively, but that is outside the scope of this paper. The reconnaissance Drakens of F11 remained in service until finally replaced by multirole JAS39 Gripens in 1999.

The final new build Swedish Draken version was the fighter J35F. The development of this version was again prompted by the increasing speed of the potential targets, in particular the Tupolev Tu-22, capable of Mach 2 dashes. This made tail chase interception difficult, and while both the STRIL60 GCI system as well as the Draken itself was capable of setting up head-on attacks, the unguided rockets had proven less than satisfatory. Accordingly, better weapon systems were sought after and found in the Hughes AIM-4 missile system. In retrospect, this choice may look peculiar as the Sidewinder already in Swedish service in later versions became quite dominant on the international short range IR missiel market. However, while principally more complicated and less agile than the Sidewinder, the Falcon missile wasn't as bad as later sources have claimed. Or rather - the Sidewinder wasn't that much better, something proven by the Americans over Vietnam. At the time, however, the significantly better IR tracker of the Hughes missile made lock-on on approaching aircraft possible, provided that these flew fast enough to have been heated somewhat by air friction. Also, a semi active radar guided variant was available, but with the drawback that rather than being a fire-and-forget weapon, the attacking aircraft would have to paint the target with its radar until the missile scored a hit, thereby complicating any evasive action. However, as the main Swedish tactics wasn't to unnecessarily engage in dogfighting, but rather pop by, pop the enemy and pop home again, and also, most enemies encountered would likely be not so manoeuvrable bomber or heavily laden attack aircraft, this was deemed acceptable.
Protracted studies went on during the first years of the 1960's, but in 1963, the GAR-3A (AIM-4F) was chosen against the SARH requirement as the Rb27. The IR missile chosen was however not the IR equivalent to GAR-3A, the GAR-4A (AIM-4G) but  rather the slightly smaller, more agile and much cheaper GAR-2A (AIM-4C). The reason for this choice beyond cost was that while the Rb27 was seen as the primary antibomber weapon, the smaller GAR-2A was selected to increase the kill chances against smaller and more agile targets such as fighters. The Swedes didn't like the less capable IR tracker of the GAR-2A and substituted the original seeker head with the much improved head from the GAR-4A. The new missile, designated Rb28 in Sweden and later AIM-4D by the Americans, was actually also bought by the USAF.
The Rb28 missile originally had contact fuses, necessitating the missile to physically hit the target aircraft to trigger the warhead. While theoretically acceptable against less agile bombers, this was a potential problem when fighting smaller airframes such as fighterbombers. Sweden thus in time entered into developing a laser proximity fuse for its IR missiles, allowing the warhead to go off when the missile was passing in the vicinity of the target, performing the kill with the fragmentation warhead. This made the Swedish missiles very different from the Falcons so loathed by the USAF ace Robin Olds in Vietnam. The SARH Rb27 was from the start equipped with an American radar proximity fuse, but the functionality was severely limited in lower altitudes, generally triggering detonation against ground clutter below 700m.
To manage these new missiles, a new fire control system had to be introduced into the J35F. This was closely modelled on the Hughes system in the F-102 Delta Dart interceptors, but extensively redesigned to work under Swedish conditions and with the Swedish STRIL60 system. Consisting of several units integrating the missiles with the new radar (PS01/A) and the new aiming system (S7B), these electronics displaced the port ADEN cannon, leaving only the starboard gun with 120 rounds in the new J35F.

The F's followed the final D's off the production line at SAAB in Linköping, the first batch again going to the Norrköping F13 wing. After 100 airframes, however, yet another new piece of equipment was introduced in the form of a locally improved variant of the Hughes S71N IRST placed in a fairing under the nose, triggering an improved version of the PS01/A radar, the PS011/A. The IRST was fully integrated in the fire control system, enabling target search and tracking also under severe ECM conditions. An even more significant improvement was that the IRST together with the new radar variant minimised problems with radar ground clutter interference, making targeting of low flying targets much easier, where they could be prosecuted by IR missiles or guns.
As the IRST equipped J35F's were being delivered, the tactical advantage in comparison to the non-IRST equipped F's was very evident, leading to these being designated J35F2 while the J35F's without were redesignated J35F1. As more F2's were available, the airframes were redistributed among the squadrons mixing the F1's and F2's evenly to make most use of the improved search and track facilities of the F2. With 230 airframes delivered, the J35F became the most numerous variant, equipping seven RSwAF wings.

During the 1960's and 1970's, the European peace movement had been heavily infiltrated by KGB and the Soviet support had activated several European left extremist terror groups, such as the Rote Armee Fraktion in West Germany and the Brigata Rossi in Italy. Also, regular spy activities were high and in several countries bordering the Baltic, Soviet incursions were made by small submersibles, possibly landing and recovering agents and sabotage teams. Following the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 and then the fall of the Shah in Iran and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Soviets, apparently encouraged by their successes, went on an offensive across the board. Large, aggresive Warsaw pact exercises were held, at least yearly, and in the early 1980's, these tended to include practice large air assaults across the Baltic sea, targeting not only the NATO countries, but also Sweden.
These events in combination with the generally more unruly situation between the superpowers led to Sweden reconsidering the military cutbacks decided during the early years of the 1970's, instead rapidly rearming itself. As a consequence, several fighter wings were reestablished, and older aircraft were taken out of storage to fill out the new squadrons. While the fighter Viggen variant, the very capable JA37 now was entering service in small numbers (again pioneered by the F13 wing), the Draken still comprised the bulk of the Swedish air defence system. Their age however began to show, in particular the J35D lacking radar controlled missiles, thus limiting them to more inefficient tail chase tactics even if the new AIM-9J was introduced from 1978.
In addition to the fighter deficiencies, in the early 1980's, plans for the replacing the AJ37 Viggen strike aircraft with a new multirole fighter had ran aground, leaving the Swedish attack component potentially dangerously weak towards the end of the decade. At the same time, engine problems with the new JA37 Viggen interceptor variant had led to delays in the deliveries, causing a need to keep the Draken fighters in service longer than planned. A quick and dirty remedy was sought, preferably managing the strike requirement while also boosting the fighter numbers while the delivery of JA37 Viggen interceptors was sorted out.

Initially, as a stop-gap solution, stored J35F's were reintroduced in service, adding to the existing active Draken fleet, but it was soon realised that the old avionics and weapon systems didn't compare too well against the then current competition. Also, standard air-to-air optimised Drakens with unguided air-to-ground rockets did little to improve on the future lack of strike aircraft. Something had to be done, and several different ideas were investigated, including procuring foreign secondhand aircraft, but the quickest and also cheapest solution was found to be an upgrade of the existing Drakens, adding relevant strike capabilities while preferably also tweaking the air-to-air capability somewhat. While also the older, less powerful and less sophisticated J35A/B versions still had been kept in storage, they were deemed as lacking power for the intended new version whereas the more powerful J35D/F variants provided a more reasonable starting point for a rebuild.

To manage fighter numbers while rebuilding the D/F fleet, however, a more limited upgrade was considered for the long A's and the B's, of which 71 airframes were remaining. On reactivation, these aircraft were to be upgraded with the improved FCS, radar and IRST of the J35F2, thereby not only finally getting fully integrated in the STRIL60 system, but also gaining the capability for collision course intercepts with the Rb27/28 SARH/IR Falcon missiles in addition to their existing Sidewinders. As a consequence, they lost the port cannon to make room for the new missile control electronics. Still, these older Drakens would keep their existing less powerful RM6B/EBK66 powerplants and only feature three hardpoints, of which one usually was occupied by a drop tank. Hence, new, light missile pylons, matched to the new AIM-9J (and later L) missiles were added under the intakes, increasing missile load to four rounds. To somewhat offset range limitations, new drop tanks, containing 1275 litres and borrowed from the SAAB 35XD design for Denmark, were brought in but still only used on the single centerline pylon.

As the upgrade was decided and budgeted, someone suggested looking at the 23 remaining short A's as well, given that development of technology and tooling already was paid for, and as it was found that adding these aircraft to the main programme only would increase the total budget with about 6%, while increasing numbers with almost a third, the decision to go ahead with a similar upgrade was taken, despite the somewhat lower performance of these earlier machines.
As an afterthought, also the 21 Sk35C's were given the same upgrade, giving them equal capability to the short A's, but for the right hand Aden cannon as that space already was used for fuel. While less useful for peacetime patrols due to the lack of cannon, they would be able to form an emergency fighter sqn in wartime.

After reconstruction, the short J35A's went back to their former home in Uppsala, joining their technically very similar Sk35C's at the J35 OCU and forming the 161st fighter sqn, F16 Wing, flying alongside the J35F's of the 162nd and 163rd sqns. Having reached operational status, they were assigned to the low altitude air defence of the greater Stockholm area, and in wartime, they would have been accompanied by the Sk35C's, who would have formed the 164th (reserve) sqn in time of war. The remaining long J35A's, post upgrade being undistinguishable from the J35B, joined these at the reestablished F18 Wing, south of Stockholm, where they equipped four peacetime sqns, the 181 through 184 sqn. In case of an attack from the east (in reality the only scenario trained for), it was however anticipated that at least one of these sqns would be flown over the Gulf of Bothnia and handed over to the Finnish Ilmavoimaat, reinforcing the eight J35B's already operational there. In preparation for this, the Finns throughout the Cold War always trained about twice the amount of pilots needed to operate their Drakens.

The upgraded J35A/B fleet soldiered on during the tensions of the 1980's and 1990's, providing good service for a limited cost. In the late 1980's, as the JA37 sqns began repainting their aircraft in air superiority grey, the Draken sqns followed, however initially using a slightly darker grey hue on top as the Draken community felt that the Viggen scheme was somewhat on the bright side given the lower altitudes the Draken generally patrolled. However, later, in the 1990's, as the brightly coloured Swedish national insignia gave way to a grey sihouette variant, all Swedish air-to-air assets were given similar paint schemes to ease maintenance.
Also during the early 1990's, various system upgrades took place such as an entirely new radar, the PS021/A, replacing the PS011/A. The new radar meant a leap in general performance, most importantly providing for look down - shoot down capability and improved ECM resistance. Paired with a new monopulse seeker head and a better proximity fuse for the Rb27,also the low altitude kill ratio increased  significantly. Tested against fast, maneouvering  drone targets, several hits were scored at altitudes as low as 50 m. Another major improvement to the Falcons was an entirely new boost-sustain rocket motor, increasing the kill radius to at least 25 km for both the SARH Rb27B and its IR guided sibling, the Rb28B.
Integration of the Skyflash missile already in use on the JA37 Viggen was also considered but the aerodynamic properties of the bigger missile affected the flight characteristics somewhat negatively, and as the kill radius with a Skyflash targeted by a Draken radar didn't differ much from the radius achieved with the improved Rb27B Falcon, Skyflash missiles were seldom seen on early Drakens despite being formally cleared for use.
In the late 1980's, However, as the first JAS39 Gripens finally entered service in the late 1990's, these the least capable and now forty-year-old Drakens were the first to go, being replaced by new Gripens, as they became available.

The upgrade of the D/F fleet would however be significantly more complex. Several design studies were made, ranging from a rather lean refurbishment of the original airframe including a mainly air-to-air focused upgrade of capabilities, the Mod 1, via the increasingly more substantial Mod 2 and Mod 3 version, to the quite comprehensive Mod 4. This version built heavily on experience gained from the 35XD fighterbomber, designed and built for the Royal Danish Air Force during the 1970's.
Starting from the J35D/F hull and engine, the change in role from a medium to high altitude fighter to a low level strike/reconnaissance aircraft, the most important changes were to strengthen the airframe, the main work being performed on the outer wings to cope with low level turbulence as well as the much heavier war load. This was carried on four new pylons under the outer wings, plus two under the fuselage and two under the air intakes. To meet NATO combat range requirements, internal fuel volume was increased by 30% and besides the fuselage pylons, two of the wing pylons were wet, but intended for twice as big drop tanks, now totalling 4x1275 litres externally in ferry configuration. Naturally, the landing gear had to be significantly reinforced to cope with the increased take-off weight, going from just below 12 000 kg to over 16 000 kg. Finally, the interceptor avionics were largely replaced by low level nav/attack systems, leading to a rather different machine when compared to the contemporary Swedish J35F while externally all but similar.

The Swedish fighterbomber upgrade would however be even more ambitious. Entirely new outer wings were designed, increasing span with about a meter, now featuring a dogtooth leading edge and wingtip missile stations with integrated ECM equipment. Each outer wing had two hardpoints cleared for 1500 kg, allowing the inner, wet ones to carry a 35XD drop tank if not used for offensive load. Further, new pylons were provided for under the intakes, either for heavy offensive loads such as bomb racks or even the Rb15F anti ship missile, or for lighter air-to-air missiles. The larger internal fuel volume was also carried over from the 35XD and in addition to increased fuel storage in the new outer wings, total internal fuel volume increased by nearly 40% when compared to the original D/F setup. The much higher max take off weight, now well over 16 tonnes, necessitated use of the stronger landing gear developed for the Danish Drakens as well as some key airframe reinforcements brought in while thoroughly refurbishing the entire airframe.
The new wing and the change in aerodynamic properties brought increased manoeuvrability but also a need for a new flight control system to manage the reduced stability of the new airframe. In this process, the vicious super stall problem was mostly eliminated, providing for more careless handling and much better control at high alphas facilitating much better combat manoeuvering characteristics. Also, small retractable canards, or "moustaches", were added just behind the intakes, assisting in maintaining higher alpha at finals, resulting in lower landing speed and shorter landing runs. Still, however, a small fin tip extension was necessary to ensure lateral stability with aerodynamically cumbersome load forward under the intakes.
A brand new radar was developed, for the first time featuring both ground attack and intercept modes, allowing for targeting of the Rb15F missile as well as the Rb71 Skyflash SARH air-to-air missile, but due to the small antenna, targeting range was less than for the JA37. Also, new communications and GCI systems were introduced, matching the latest Viggens.

About 180 airframes were rebuilt into the new Mod 4 version, now formally dubbed the JA35G, the change of prefix suggesting the increased air-to-ground capabilities. The RSwAF, eagerly introducing the rebuilt Draken fighters into service from 1981,  found it a success. While not dirt cheap, the airframe cost was still only about 60% of that of a new Viggen fighter, and while not fully equal to the JA37 in air-to-air mode, especially BVR, the JA35G was a significant step up from the J35F, and also almost as good an attack aircraft as the AJ37. Moreover, its system layout allowed the pilot to easily switch between air-to-air and ground attack mode while in the air, making the JA35G the first true swing role fighter in the world. In the mid 1980's, the old blue/green camouflage was replaced by a two tone light grey air superiority scheme, reflecting the aircrafts main mission, and later in the decade, various avionics upgrades improved ECM as well as ESM capabilities. New weapons were integrated, such as the AGM-65 Maverick missile and the BK90 Mjölner glide cluster bomb unit.
In 1998, AIM-120 capability was added, keeping the Draken lethal well into the new century. However, once the J35A/B and AJ37 wings had converted to the new JAS39 Gripen swing role fighter, also the JA35G wings slowly begun their conversion from 2004 and onwards. The final flight was made from F12 in Kalmar on a sunny Thursday in October 2007, finally ending almost fifty years of Royal Swedish Air Force Drakens.

Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 05, 2025, 12:45:31 PM
You are definitely a man after my own heart.
I have so many detailed backstories for them all that I am turning them into a historical novel.
What surprises me most is how often I get an idea and, as I research it, I find endless coincidences with reality giving it a life of its own. Very soon, it is feeding back into the model and I lose control over both.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 06, 2025, 01:19:10 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 05, 2025, 12:45:31 PM.. and I lose control over both.

Oh, how familiar isn't that..  :rolleyes:

I think this is one (admittedly of many) reasons for my slow building pace. I read up, and that takes time, and then I read up more and find conflicting data, and sorting that takes loads of time. And once decided, I continue on the kit just to find yet another angle that prompts a redesign, and so on and so forth.
But it's a lovely pastime! :wub:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 06, 2025, 01:31:15 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 05, 2025, 12:45:31 PMYou are definitely a man after my own heart.
I have so many detailed backstories for them all that I am turning them into a historical novel.

Also - thanks for bearing with me. That does mean something to me.

I am somewhat worried that I'm boring you to death with these changes and updates, but it seems it's easier for me to reread and rework things when I see them here than just in an MS Word doc. But maybe I should colour my updated not to force y'all to reread every sentence as I go between versions.

I love reading others backstories.  A well written backstory should, in my mind, be as taken from a Clancy novel - closely integrated into the real world, neither straying too far from actual historical events nor stretching technology development too far to maintain plausibility. And quite a few of us here are really good at this which makes this an even better place to hang out.  :wub:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on April 06, 2025, 01:33:40 AM
Quote from: Pellson on April 06, 2025, 01:19:10 AMBut it's a lovely pastime! :wub:

It is indeed and I think part of the beauty of it, is that our hobby caters for all sorts. From those who simply want to build a kit quickly straight from the box, to those who will spend months researching a specific aircraft /ship/tank etc before embarking on a months long scratch build of some obscure type or another.

Long may it reign  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 06, 2025, 04:44:28 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 06, 2025, 01:33:40 AMFrom those who simply want to build a kit quickly straight from the box

I always want to build a kit straight from the box. It jut never seems to work out like that... ;)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2025, 06:27:34 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 06, 2025, 04:44:28 AMI always want to build a kit straight from the box. It jut never seems to work out like that... ;)


I'm not sure that I ever have, EVER, even when I was young!  :o
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on April 07, 2025, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2025, 06:27:34 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 06, 2025, 04:44:28 AMI always want to build a kit straight from the box. It jut never seems to work out like that... ;)


I'm not sure that I ever have, EVER, even when I was young!  :o

I completed quite a few on Friday Nights after tea, when we'd gotten it at the shop* and then got back home.
To be fair, I was (really) young and they looked like you'd expect from that sort of treatment, but - early, learning days.  ;)

*mostly Airfix bagged kits, as I recall.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 08, 2025, 04:17:38 AM
My first ever plastic kit was a Lindberg B-17G in the ever popular 1/64 scale, and I didn't like the chin turret on the G, so chopped it off and faired in the hole with some balsa to turn it into an F.

My Dad reckoned I was crazy '.....ruining a perfectly good kit there boy.....' but I did it anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: zenrat on April 08, 2025, 04:18:16 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on April 07, 2025, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2025, 06:27:34 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 06, 2025, 04:44:28 AMI always want to build a kit straight from the box. It jut never seems to work out like that... ;)


I'm not sure that I ever have, EVER, even when I was young!  :o

I completed quite a few on Friday Nights after tea, when we'd gotten it at the shop* and then got back home.
To be fair, I was (really) young and they looked like you'd expect from that sort of treatment, but - early, learning days.  ;)

*mostly Airfix bagged kits, as I recall.

Build the kit with stringy tube glue twisting the parts from the sprues.  Put the transfers on.  Fly it round the house while the glue dries and then paint it the next day painting right up to the edge of the markings.  Things were less complicated back then.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on April 08, 2025, 06:28:00 AM
Quote from: zenrat on April 08, 2025, 04:18:16 AMBuild the kit with stringy tube glue twisting the parts from the sprues.  Put the transfers on.  Fly it round the house while the glue dries and then paint it the next day painting right up to the edge of the markings.  Things were less complicated back then.
:thumbsup:

Paint ? What was that ? Don't think I painted anything in the early years, and mostly used that tiny little capsule of glue you got in the kit.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 08, 2025, 06:51:21 AM
My main goal was to glue the fuselage carefully enough so the prop would still spin but it was held together well enough not to drop apart. Then hold it out the car window as Dad drove along.

The other joy was the firework season, when a cheap banger was just the right size to fit in an Airfix MiG 15, with the blue touchpaper sticking out the exhaust nozzle.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 08, 2025, 06:52:22 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 08, 2025, 06:51:21 AMThe other joy was the firework season, when a cheap banger was just the right size to fit in an Airfix MiG 15, with the blue touchpaper sticking out the exhaust nozzle.


Hmm, why does that ring a bell?  :wacko:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: NARSES2 on April 09, 2025, 05:29:01 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 08, 2025, 06:52:22 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 08, 2025, 06:51:21 AMThe other joy was the firework season, when a cheap banger was just the right size to fit in an Airfix MiG 15, with the blue touchpaper sticking out the exhaust nozzle.


Hmm, why does that ring a bell?  :wacko:

Or two  :angel:
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 09, 2025, 05:49:01 AM
Quote from: zenrat on April 08, 2025, 04:18:16 AM
Quote from: Rick Lowe on April 07, 2025, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 06, 2025, 06:27:34 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 06, 2025, 04:44:28 AMI always want to build a kit straight from the box. It jut never seems to work out like that... ;)


I'm not sure that I ever have, EVER, even when I was young!  :o

I completed quite a few on Friday Nights after tea, when we'd gotten it at the shop* and then got back home.
To be fair, I was (really) young and they looked like you'd expect from that sort of treatment, but - early, learning days.  ;)

*mostly Airfix bagged kits, as I recall.

Build the kit with stringy tube glue twisting the parts from the sprues.  Put the transfers on.  Fly it round the house while the glue dries and then paint it the next day painting right up to the edge of the markings.  Things were less complicated back then.
:thumbsup:

I think I always painted first, but otherwise, this is to the spot. And those were good days!
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 09, 2025, 11:43:34 AM
I dreamed of kits with parts moulded in different coloured plastic, right down to the markings, so when you glued them together it didn't need decals or painting.

Sixty years later, the Airfix Quickbuild Spitfire is the nearest yet. They do versions in green/brown, green/grey and desert.
(https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/airfix/quickbuild/j6000_spitfire_exploded.jpg)
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 10, 2025, 03:30:43 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 09, 2025, 11:43:34 AMI dreamed of kits with parts moulded in different coloured plastic, right down to the markings, so when you glued them together it didn't need decals or painting.

Sixty years later, the Airfix Quickbuild Spitfire is the nearest yet. They do versions in green/brown, green/grey and desert.
(https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/airfix/quickbuild/j6000_spitfire_exploded.jpg)

Only downside with the Quickbuildsis that it seems the scales vary wildly. Or have I gotten that wrong?
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 10, 2025, 04:26:07 AM
They do indeed. Sized for the same weight of plastic, I suspect. The tooling can be a bit basic, too: the tinted cockpit reveals only its fastening lugs. And the decals are poor quality: not quite stick-on enough for their stiffness, and apt to be a bit transparent. You have to cut them carefully if you want to take the kit apart again. But at least the idea is there.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Old Wombat on April 10, 2025, 05:40:25 AM
I'm fairly sure their target audience for those isn't us. Perhaps "us" as we might have been 50/60/70 years ago ... Or in Kit's case, when he was at the birth of Jesus of Nazareth*.  :angel:




[*: You played drums back then, didn't you, Kit?  ;) ]
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B Draken (Refurbished plus NOS 1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2025, 06:42:16 AM
Quote from: Old Wombat on April 10, 2025, 05:40:25 AM[*: You played drums back then, didn't you, Kit?  ;) ]


I actually WAS s drummer once, a very long time ago, in a school band. The word 'band' is used here in its WIDEST possible sense!

I'm not sure it QUITE that far back though............  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 25, 2025, 07:09:34 AM
Another expansion of this thread, but I thought it appropriate as also this third installation will be based on the ancient (1957!) Revell kit.

This example was snagged off our local Evilbay variant at a somewhat high cost, in particular as the fuselage halves had been painted (more on that later) and glued together. However, all parts were included, including the somewhat elusive two-piece canopy and windscreen that sets the original Revell mould apart from the Mastercraft/Mistercraft rip-off. Also, this being a 1989 reissue, there's a nice decal sheet and an additional sprue with pylons, fuel tanks and missiles, all of them incorrect, and a camera nose that may be used on either a reconnaissance Draken or a late Danish WDNS F-35, in both cases however having to be somewhat reshaped. That said, the air-to-air missile rails are quite useful as they actually do resemble early Swedish Sidewinder pylons.
And in any case - spares always come in handy, don't they?

This is, however, what came in the box I bought.

Draken kit.jpg

Or almost. As you can see, I have cut away a length of the fuselage spine in order to make room for the new, twoseater cockpit. Also, I have reshaped the wing tips as per the other two Drakens in this thread, and I have filed and sanded a bit here and there in preparation for further construction, as you do.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: steelpillow on April 25, 2025, 09:45:46 AM
And there's me been mulling over the design of my quad/octa-fan VTOL Draken.

Looked out the old Revell build and I had finished it in a Testors matt rattlecan varnish - only forgot to mask the canopy first.
Any ideas what to soak it in?
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Pellson on April 25, 2025, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 25, 2025, 09:45:46 AMAnd there's me been mulling over the design of my quad/octa-fan VTOL Draken.

Looked out the old Revell build and I had finished it in a Testors matt rattlecan varnish - only forgot to mask the canopy first.
Any ideas what to soak it in?

Oven cleaner, I suppose?
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rheged on April 25, 2025, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: Pellson on April 25, 2025, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: steelpillow on April 25, 2025, 09:45:46 AMAnd there's me been mulling over the design of my quad/octa-fan VTOL Draken.

Looked out the old Revell build and I had finished it in a Testors matt rattlecan varnish - only forgot to mask the canopy first.
Any ideas what to soak it in?

Oven cleaner, I suppose?

Dettol disinfectant might do the job,    and you end up with a sterilised model too.
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 25, 2025, 10:22:57 AM
Quote from: Rheged on April 25, 2025, 09:53:33 AMDettol disinfectant might do the job,    and you end up with a sterilised model too.


Perish the thought that we may be infected by some nefarious styrene disease!

Ah, it may be FAR too late for most of us of course.  ;D
Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: zenrat on April 26, 2025, 05:35:49 AM
Brake fluid - but it'll embrittle the plastic - or a nice strong caustic soda solution.

Title: Re: Double deltas - SAAB J35A/B & Sk35C Draken (1957 Revell kits)
Post by: Rick Lowe on April 26, 2025, 06:47:16 PM
Oven cleaner - the foaming type.