Yet another Spackman Long Term Build................
I've already started on the Academy Martin Mariner I bought y'day, if only to see if my plans for extending it in bo0th directions will work.
Here's the mandatory box pic.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5950/zyuAcJ.jpg)
All very impressive I think you'll agree, and so is the SIZE of it, it's about 3.5-4" thick! :o
And there's a LOT of plastic in there too.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9330/c7HLbX.jpg)
While I'm impressed with Academy's engineering of the kit, and its complexity, finding the parts on the sprues is a pain. They give you a diagram in the manuals (Yes, there are two of them.........) but they're so small you can't see the part nos. Neither can you see them on the sprues either as they're very slightly raised and don't cast shadows on the rest of the grey plastic.
The kit harks back to the 60s in some ways as all the control surfaces are designed to move, flaps and all, but the latter are so heavy they'll only rest in the full down position. Not for me, all the surfaces will be glued in place whether they like it or not.
Oh I'm gonna be keeping a not so close eye on this ;D
I agree mate about moving parts..they never look right especially tails ..they never seem to sit right ..slightly cockeyed..yep..glue em up :thumbsup:
I know what ya mean about the size difference between the Catalina and this beast Kit.
Here in NZ we've got a small air field called Ardmore and they have or had the remains of a Catalina there and when ya stand beside it ya think it's a good size then you see pics of a Mariner ..and nope 😄
She's a big girl for sure...I take it ..it's either getting a monster engine upgrade or more added 🤔 😅
Great box art! Quite a splash with the depth charge detonation.
The nacelle weapon bays are a neat feature.
My dad was stationed on a US Navy Seaplane tender in the early 1960's (then using Marlins) and alluded to the old salts reminiscing of Mariners doing some interesting things into China and N Korea
Quote from: Wardukw on July 20, 2024, 11:46:06 AMShe's a big girl for sure...I take it ..it's either getting a monster engine upgrade or more added 🤔 😅
Current plans will have four engines, and four weapons bays of course too.
That is if I can figure out how to NOT have a gullwinged root on the vacform wing extensions. Having TWO gillwinged sections on the same aeroplane would look seriously silly. :banghead:
Not if they cancel each other out...
--\//\__/\\/--
(The arrows wouldn't work, just imagine that the 'V's attach to each other... and the inner/outer dashes...)
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 20, 2024, 04:17:34 PMQuote from: Wardukw on July 20, 2024, 11:46:06 AMShe's a big girl for sure...I take it ..it's either getting a monster engine upgrade or more added 🤔 😅
Current plans will have four engines, and four weapons bays of course too.
That is if I can figure out how to NOT have a gullwinged root on the vacform wing extensions. Having TWO gillwinged sections on the same aeroplane would look seriously silly. :banghead:
Seriously silly would be putting one set of wings above the other and ending up with a gigantic X wing.
Would make more sense to eliminate the gull wing part completely if at all possible 🤔
Those engine locations are annoying and let me guess that wing past the engine gets very narrow very fast giving you not alot of room to play .
Quote from: sandiego89 on July 20, 2024, 01:19:52 PMGreat box art! Quite a splash with the depth charge detonation.
Whenever I see that box art I always think she's making a sheer verticle climb away :o
Minicraft, not Academy would have engineered the moulds given it's originally their kit.
I regret not getting one of these even more now i've seen your sprue shots.
If I can engineer a gull wing INTO a B-25 wing you can definitely engineer one OUT of a Mariner.
If a Master Mariner flying boat was used to lure enemy fighter aircraft into a trap would it be a Master Baiter? ;D
I'll get me coat...
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 20, 2024, 04:17:34 PMQuote from: Wardukw on July 20, 2024, 11:46:06 AMShe's a big girl for sure...I take it ..it's either getting a monster engine upgrade or more added 🤔 😅
Current plans will have four engines, and four weapons bays of course too.
That is if I can figure out how to NOT have a gullwinged root on the vacform wing extensions. Having TWO gillwinged sections on the same aeroplane would look seriously silly. :banghead:
Use wings from an old Hase Shinmeiwa.... ;D
Huge flying boats are always cool. Go for it! :D
Quote from: zenrat on July 21, 2024, 04:28:41 AMMinicraft, not Academy would have engineered the moulds given it's originally their kit.
I regret not getting one of these even more now i've seen your sprue shots.
If I can engineer a gull wing INTO a B-25 wing you can definitely engineer one OUT of a Mariner.
If a Master Mariner flying boat was used to lure enemy fighter aircraft into a trap would it be a Master Baiter? ;D
I'll get me coat...
If it was a lend-lease one operating from a river in Ukraine, would it be a Master Don?
Pass me mine while you're there...
Quote from: Weaver on July 21, 2024, 06:29:33 AMIf it was a lend-lease one operating from a river in Ukraine...
And now I'm picturing Ukraine Air Force Mariners hunting Russian BSF Kilos
Quote from: zenrat on July 21, 2024, 04:28:41 AMIf I can engineer a gull wing INTO a B-25 wing you can definitely engineer one OUT of a Mariner.
It'll need close examination of the vacform one first, and currently that's maybe 300+ miles and 10 days away. I'm not sure if I've ever taken that one out of its packet, ever! :o
Quote from: zenrat on July 21, 2024, 04:28:41 AMIf a Master Mariner flying boat was used to lure enemy fighter aircraft into a trap would it be a Master Baiter? ;D
I'll get me coat...
I was thinking of adding a few extra turrets to it anyway. ;D
And I suspect you're about to be back in The Book Fred, AGAIN! :wacko:
I can't see why you can't just have the rise of the gull-wing continuing through the inboard engine nacelles to the outboard engine nacelles, Kit.
_ _ _ _ _O O_ _ _ _ _
\O O/
\( )/
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 21, 2024, 09:43:02 AMAnd I suspect you're about to be back in The Book Fred, AGAIN! :wacko:
Indeed and Weaver's been reported to the Natural History Museum :angel:
Quote from: zenrat on July 21, 2024, 04:28:41 AMMinicraft, not Academy would have engineered the moulds given it's originally their kit.
I regret not getting one of these even more now i've seen your sprue shots.
If I can engineer a gull wing INTO a B-25 wing you can definitely engineer one OUT of a Mariner.
If a Master Mariner flying boat was used to lure enemy fighter aircraft into a trap would it be a Master Baiter? ;D
I'll get me coat...
Academy did the moulds, Minicraft never had its own engineering department. It wasn't a model company in the sense of Airfix, Revell, Hasegawa etc.
Well you live and learn. Were academy responsible for all Minicraft or did they buy in from various places as needed?
Quote from: Old Wombat on July 21, 2024, 09:59:40 AMI can't see why you can't just have the rise of the gull-wing continuing through the inboard engine nacelles to the outboard engine nacelles, Kit.
_ _ _ _ _O O_ _ _ _ _
\O O/
\( )/
Structurally that would work, so long as I used the vacform outer wings I think. The injection ones may be too heavy for the vacform gull section to support.
But there's a more fundamental problem, the prop clearance. With one gull wing section the props just have to clear the fuselage, but add another gull wing section and it needs to be almost TWICE as long the original one or the props will hit each other, probably NOT a good idea............ :(
Have the inner engine mountings staggered ahead of the outboard stations.
That would work physically, but would it work aerodynamically?
I'm not sure I know of a single aircraft where the prop discs are actually overlapping like that. Anyone know of one?
Push-Pull nacelles...
Looking forward to watching this one. Defo a neat aeroplane.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 24, 2024, 02:30:32 AMThat would work physically, but would it work aerodynamically?
I'm not sure I know of a single aircraft where the prop discs are actually overlapping like that. Anyone know of one?
I can't think of side by side props overlapping. The Curtis Wright X-19 had fore/aft overlap and there were others with fore/aft nacelles or push-pull, but I imagine side by side overlap it cause tremendous vibration on the rear prop operating in the turbulent prop wash and reduced efficiency.
Quote from: zenrat on July 24, 2024, 02:49:53 AMPush-Pull nacelles...
Now THAT'S an idea Fred! :thumbsup:
Like the Do-26, only with radials, and I'd only need the standard gull wing section then too, no need to worry about the strength of the vacform one.
All I need to do is lengthen the wings with the vacform bits.
That sounds like a winner to me, thanks VERY much. ;D
The build's progressing slowly, holidays have lots of other attractions of course, and the cockpit's all been assembled now.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8067/DLOsPn.jpg)
There's LOTS of bits, 27 in all, and some are very fiddly to get into place, and...................
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9481/jM7oOx.jpg)
.......as you can see from the above pic most of it will be invisible once it's assembled inside the fuselage!
The red arrowed gap is the size of the canopy and only the Captain's and Co-pilot's positions will be visible, with maybe just a hint of the radar ops consoles too. Such a waste, and I don't think I'll even bother to paint the rear half of the cockpit area.
The engine nacelles, which are also the weapons bays are nicely detailed, albeit sans any weapons at all. I may put a few bombs and depth charges in there later on.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9743/RGinYX.jpg)
Yep, Fred's idea is probably the best way to go.
Could you cut off the rear part of the interior and reuse it for some other build? Just a Thought...
That looks a lot better than the Mach2 model kit which I turned into a twin turbofan powered ASW with a few modifications.
Quote from: Rick Lowe on July 24, 2024, 10:43:32 PMCould you cut off the rear part of the interior and reuse it for some other build? Just a Thought...
I could do, yes, but I'll be lengthening the fuselage a bit in that area and I mat add a window or three.
Now here's a technical problem...................
With the push me/pull you layout, how will I cool the pusher engines as they're radials?
The cooling flaps on the kit can be modelled open or closed, all very nice, but they're BEHIND the engine and cowling. For the pusher engines that won't work as the 'cooling' flaps will be in FRONT of the rear engines. :banghead:
It's difficult to find a pusher engined aircraft with a radial, and the B-35 and -36 don't count as their engines are buried in the wing and have complex cooling ducts etc. The only one I can find is the Northrop XP-56, and it doesn't seem to have any cooling ducts, but maybe there's an adjustable area slot around its contraprop?
Not only that, I'll either have to reverse the pitch of the rear props or invent a reverse rotation R-2600 engine. OK, I know I did that with the Merlins on the SM-77, but that'd have been relatively simple with a V-12, so is it just as easy with a 14 cylinder, twin row radial?
Ah, I think I've solved the prop rotation problem.
Having re-read my SM-77 thread, I didn't fit reverse rotation Merlins to it, they had an extra idler gear added to the prop gearbox, like the starboard engines on a Hornet. So I'm sure Wright could do the same job on the rear engines of the PB3M-1. :thumbsup:
The cooling issue still remains though.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 24, 2024, 08:09:08 AM...That sounds like a winner to me, thanks VERY much. ;D
You'd have come up with it soon enough.
Could you duct cooling air in through the weapons bay?
Nice start ! I always forego all of the fiddly bits lol
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 25, 2024, 04:50:18 AMAh, I think I've solved the prop rotation problem.
Having re-read my SM-77 thread, I didn't fit reverse rotation Merlins to it, they had an extra idler gear added to the prop gearbox, like the starboard engines on a Hornet. So I'm sure Wright could do the same job on the rear engines of the PB3M-1. :thumbsup:
The cooling issue still remains though.
Could you just fit the cowlings (backwards) & keep the cooling flaps as variable ducts? Maybe with a fan (similar to the BMW 801 radial of the FW190) to draw air out over the engine?
or have the flaps open and claim that it adds thrust, due to the air RAMing in and then having energy added due to cooling the engine and going out the back as a sort of jet / rocket exhaust, sort of like the oil cooler on the Mustang.
Additional cooling ducts on the cowlings.
Regular radial engine upfront,
FW-190 prototype style spinners for the pusher engine where the heated air leaves from the center.
Quote from: zenrat on July 25, 2024, 04:54:16 AMYou'd have come up with it soon enough.
Could you duct cooling air in through the weapons bay?
Yeah, maybe AFTER I'd finished building it another way.................. :(
That may be possible actually, there's socking great holes on both fore and aft bulkheads of the weapons bays.
Quote from: Old Wombat on July 25, 2024, 06:47:19 AMCould you just fit the cowlings (backwards) & keep the cooling flaps as variable ducts? Maybe with a fan (similar to the BMW 801 radial of the FW190) to draw air out over the engine?
I don't think so, the cowling tapers quite a bit and it's too small to fit over the rear part of the crankcase. But the Fw-190 type fan might be a good idea. :thumbsup:
All the other ideas have merit too, much more than I had to start with. I'll see what looks most likely when I get home next week and can check-out the Vacform Mariner in The Loft.
In the meanwhile, here's all the sub assemblies I've been working on this week.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1864/7Uukwu.jpg)
The tail assembly's fully dine now, and fits like a charm too. Only the starboard wing (shown here on the left...) has its upper surface added because of a 'glitch' in the design. The bomb bay 'walls' are a tad too high and come up flush with the wing's upper surface, but the outer wing panel has a flange that's meant to tuck under the gull section on top of the standard Mariner wing section. But it can't as the bomb bay wall is in the way.
I'll do some styrene shaving in an attempt to sort it out.
Making good progress already! :thumbsup:
I'm back home now and dug out the Rareplanes vacform Mariner kit to see if it'll suit my intended mods.
It certainly does, but it'll be some work of course. Two good things are that it includes the earlier, shorter engine nacelles which will suit the pusher engines better, and it also has the proper length radome, the Academy one looks FAR too long for me.
Styrene slicing will probably commence later this evening. ;D
So cool to watch!