What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => The Idea Bank => Topic started by: The Rat on January 26, 2024, 07:56:30 PM

Title: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Rat on January 26, 2024, 07:56:30 PM
Sheesh, the things you come across while bouncing around the interwebbies. According to Wikipedia, which references Flight magazine, 1950, page 557, the Saab Safir, a 3-4 place piston engined trainer, was fitted with a full-scale J-29 Tunnan wing for test purposes.

 :unsure:  :o  :blink:

Now this begs the question: is that fact so obscure that you could fool a lot of people into thinking that it was a crazy 'what if?' I know that my knowledge of aviation history isn't great (I have a good memory, but it's short  ;D ), but it would be interesting to sit one on a table at a show and wait for the snorts and/or quizzical faces. This would probably be a job for the Project Cancelled SIG, but I'm interested enough to perhaps give it a go one day. And of course, to complete the madness, one would have to use the leftover parts to construct a real whif; a Tunnan with Safir wings.  ;D

So what else can you think of in the same vein? Something that sounds just wrong, unbelievable, or totally outlandish, but really existed.
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: perttime on January 26, 2024, 10:25:04 PM
SAAB did put a swept wing on a Safir for testing the new wing concept. They called it SAAB 201, and the wing was a scaled down version of what they were designing for the Tunnan. They also did a similar thing with Lansen: SAAB 202.
Swedish Wikipedia: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_201

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Saab_202_en_Saab_91_med_pilvingar.jpg/640px-Saab_202_en_Saab_91_med_pilvingar.jpg)

It probably is obscure enough that most wouldn't know about it without looking it up. If you give it a different paint job and come up with a story, it is a whif.

I recall some strange looking aircraft have come out of testing new engine technologies on old airframes. B-17 and Lancaster, at least, I think.
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: Dizzyfugu on January 27, 2024, 12:14:27 AM
Quote from: The Rat on January 26, 2024, 07:56:30 PMa Tunnan with Safir wings.  ;D

I have seen a Tunnan with Starfighter wings and its respective T-tail on a convention table...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Rat on January 27, 2024, 11:57:32 AM
Beauty, just what I was looking for!

Quote from: perttime on January 26, 2024, 10:25:04 PMSAAB did put a swept wing on a Safir for testing the new wing concept. They called it SAAB 201, and the wing was a scaled down version of what they were designing for the Tunnan. They also did a similar thing with Lansen: SAAB 202.
Swedish Wikipedia: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_201

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Saab_202_en_Saab_91_med_pilvingar.jpg/640px-Saab_202_en_Saab_91_med_pilvingar.jpg)

It probably is obscure enough that most wouldn't know about it without looking it up. If you give it a different paint job and come up with a story, it is a whif.

I recall some strange looking aircraft have come out of testing new engine technologies on old airframes. B-17 and Lancaster, at least, I think.
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: TomZ on January 27, 2024, 12:15:02 PM
Bell did the same with the P-39, called the L-39

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Bell_L-39-2_NAN2-61.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_L-39 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_L-39)

TomZ

Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Wooksta! on January 27, 2024, 01:15:42 PM
I'm wanting to do something similar with Komet wings on a Bf 108. Lippisch did draw up something similar to train pilots on tailless flying, so there's a toenail in reality.
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Rat on January 27, 2024, 03:16:16 PM
That's the sort of stuff I mean! I've seen that picture before, couldn't bring it to my mind.

Quote from: TomZ on January 27, 2024, 12:15:02 PMBell did the same with the P-39, called the L-39

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Bell_L-39-2_NAN2-61.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_L-39 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_L-39)

TomZ


Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: jcf on January 28, 2024, 11:15:22 AM
The two L-39s were conversions of P-63 airframes rather than P-39 airframes. 
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Rat on January 28, 2024, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: jcf on January 28, 2024, 11:15:22 AMThe two L-39s were conversions of P-63 airframes rather than P-39 airframes.

Any idea what the wings were?
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: perttime on January 28, 2024, 12:13:59 PM
Quote from: The Wooksta! on January 27, 2024, 01:15:42 PMI'm wanting to do something similar with Komet wings on a Bf 108. Lippisch did draw up something similar to train pilots on tailless flying, so there's a toenail in reality.
The idea sounds familiar.... Yep: Messerschmitt P 06
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: perttime on January 28, 2024, 12:25:43 PM
From Luftwaffe: Secret Wings of the Third Reich bookazine by Dan Sharp:

DSC_0431.JPG

DSC_0432.JPG
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: jcf on February 01, 2024, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: The Rat on January 28, 2024, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: jcf on January 28, 2024, 11:15:22 AMThe two L-39s were conversions of P-63 airframes rather than P-39 airframes.

Any idea what the wings were?
The aircraft were built to test the low speed handling characteristics of swept wings and used modified P-63 wings
for both the L-39-1 and the L-39-2, as the latter was originally constructed. The L-39-2 later had all new fully swept
wings that were built to test the low speed handling of the wing design for the Bell X-2.

Tommy Thomason covered modelling it on his Tailhook Topics blog:
Sweeping Change - The Bell L-39 (http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/04/sweeping-change-bell-l-39.html?m=1)

More on the program from Tommy's U.S. Navy Aircraft History blog:
Bell L-39 Wing Sweep Evaluation (http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2011/04/bell-l-39-wing-sweep-evaluation.html)

Original modified wing layout:
BELL_USN_L-39_01.png

Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: jcf on February 01, 2024, 01:03:02 PM
Grumman had proposed a modified F4F Wildcat for the same program, which would definitely fit the topic. ;)

Swept Wing F4F.jpeg
Title: Re: Is it a whiff, or not?
Post by: The Rat on February 01, 2024, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: jcf on February 01, 2024, 01:03:02 PMGrumman had proposed a modified F4F Wildcat for the same program, which would definitely fit the topic. ;)

 :thumbsup: