What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => The Idea Bank => Topic started by: The Rat on December 02, 2023, 09:24:59 AM

Title: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 02, 2023, 09:24:59 AM
Smaller diameter searchlight, mounted in the nose, and used to illuminate targets for Defiant nightfighters. Alternatively, a second Whirlwind with its impressive nose armament as the attacker.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Radar mounted under the chin of the turbinlite?
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2023, 09:38:56 AM
Sounds like a plan. Two Whirlwinds would make a goof 'hunter-killer' grouping, like the Grumman Guardians were.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 02, 2023, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2023, 09:38:56 AMSounds like a plan. Two Whirlwinds would make a goof 'hunter-killer' grouping, like the Grumman Guardians were.

Now I have to source 2 of the old Airfix examples. Not going to splurge on something that my plans will be inflicted on.  ;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Wardukw on December 02, 2023, 11:05:45 AM
Dave you could make it wing mounted then ya wouldn't have a figther without any guns and to make things worse..2 lights..one on each wing 😉 😀
Or radar on one wing and a light on the other .
As for armaments..30mm cannon will mess up a ship very nicely.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Old Wombat on December 03, 2023, 12:11:43 AM
The Whirlwind's strengths were speed & manoeuvrability, chucking a whopping great Turbinlite under one wing would screw that good & propper. :blink:

No, I think the Hunter-Killer duo is a much better idea for these little birds. :thumbsup:


A Havoc II fitted with a Turbinlite;

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Douglas_Havoc_II_Turbinlite_1459_Flight_RAF_c1942.jpg)

Now, imagine that stuck under the wing of a tiny Whirlwind! :o  :o  :o
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: zenrat on December 03, 2023, 02:13:29 AM
There was one Turbinlite Mosquito.  It appears to have been converted from a fighter as it retained the belly guns.

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/607892d0460d6f7768d704ef/1626263114779-IXDEUGUEKE8XFE6BUJSR/Turbinlite09.jpg)
https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/blinded-by-the-light

Ugly fellow isn't it.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Beermonster58 on December 03, 2023, 03:50:55 AM
Thoughts? Well, I appreciate the Turbinlite was  real but, I'd have thought that if an aeroplane had the means to intercept a nocturnal target then , it might have been a lot more practical  to equip it  with something a bit more lethal than a searchlight .......?  But, as we're after suggestions, how about a B-25?
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 03, 2023, 04:31:32 AM
Quote from: zenrat on December 03, 2023, 02:13:29 AMThere was one Turbinlite Mosquito.  It appears to have been converted from a fighter as it retained the belly guns.


And the flat windscreen too.

Yes, it IS ugly!
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 03, 2023, 09:47:59 AM
Heard rumours of such a beast, thanks for confirming. But I couldn't do that to a Mosquito. I know that there were even uglier versions, but no, just no. If the Spitfire was the most beautiful single-engine prop fighter of all time, the Mosquito takes that award in the twin-engine category.

Quote from: zenrat on December 03, 2023, 02:13:29 AMThere was one Turbinlite Mosquito.  It appears to have been converted from a fighter as it retained the belly guns.

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/607892d0460d6f7768d704ef/1626263114779-IXDEUGUEKE8XFE6BUJSR/Turbinlite09.jpg)
https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/blinded-by-the-light

Ugly fellow isn't it.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 03, 2023, 09:51:34 AM
Quote from: Beermonster58 on December 03, 2023, 03:50:55 AMThoughts? Well, I appreciate the Turbinlite was  real but, I'd have thought that if an aeroplane had the means to intercept a nocturnal target then , it might have been a lot more practical  to equip it  with something a bit more lethal than a searchlight .......?  But, as we're after suggestions, how about a B-25?

Nice idea, but my heart is set on a Whirlwind. Nostalgia is also involved here, as it's one of the first model kits I ever made, waaaaay back around 1961. If someone takes your suggestion, I will definitely follow that thread!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Old Wombat on December 04, 2023, 12:25:17 AM
The Turbinlites were an answer to a problem (the large size & great weight of early airborne search radars) & served their purpose until the development of the centimetric radar (which allowed the carriage of guns & radar on the one aircraft without significantly effecting its combat performance) replaced them shortly after their introduction.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Dizzyfugu on December 04, 2023, 01:04:02 AM
The problem with a Turbinlite in/on a Whirlwind might not be the searchlight itself, but rather the battery packs? Quite heavy, and bulky, too (the Havoc/Boston as well as the Mossie had the bomb bay and respective load capacities).  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: jcf on December 04, 2023, 10:50:54 AM
The hunter-killer pair of Whirlwinds is an amusing notion but I wouldn't want to be the one tasked with figuring out how to coordinate the operation of the pair. It's likely that the turbinlite equipped aircraft would have different flight characteristics compared to a regular Whirlwind.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: jcf on December 04, 2023, 11:30:43 AM
This article on Vintage Wings Canada shows why a Turbinlite type installation would be difficult, and how craptastic the entire project was as a concept.

Blinded by the Light (https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/blinded-by-the-light)
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 04, 2023, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: jcf on December 04, 2023, 11:30:43 AMThis article on Vintage Wings Canada shows why a Turbinlite type installation would be difficult, and how craptastic the entire project was as a concept.

Blinded by the Light (https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/blinded-by-the-light)

QuoteThe service searchlights in use by the Army and Navy up to this point consumed 150 amps of current. The Helmore Turbinlite drew 1,400 amps. Specially designed 12-volt batteries were created which could discharge in 120 seconds. The 48-battery array was carried in the fuselage and weighed so much (nearly 2,000 lbs) that the Turbinlite aircraft could carry no offensive or defensive armament. The light burned through its carbon rods at a prodigious rate,
[/b]

Hmmm... That seems to put a damper on the idea. Maybe just a radar equipped hunter-killer combo? I wasn't familiar with the actual light, always figured it just ran off a generator from the engine. And, either way, my idea could still turn out to be a failure in the whiffworld!  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: jcf on December 04, 2023, 01:59:28 PM
A bunch of small underwing barbed-head harpoon flare rockets on the AI radar equipped hunter. The ones that hit stick in the skin and illuminate the target for the killer which has two belt-fed 20mm
with large ammo tanks, in place of the four drum
fed cannon. Fewer guns but a longer firing time
so they can hose down those nasty Nazzis.
😉
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 04, 2023, 02:05:53 PM
Quote from: jcf on December 04, 2023, 01:59:28 PMA bunch of small underwing barbed-head harpoon flare rockets on the AI radar equipped hunter. The ones that hit stick in the skin and illuminate the target for the killer which has two belt-fed 20mm
with large ammo tanks, in place of the four drum
fed cannon. Fewer guns but a longer firing time
so they can hose down those nasty Nazzis.
😉

 ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: NARSES2 on December 05, 2023, 01:33:07 AM
Quote from: The Rat on December 04, 2023, 01:42:29 PM, always figured it just ran off a generator from the engine.

You and me both Capt
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: jcf on December 05, 2023, 11:55:18 AM
Powering the light with a generator would require a dedicated generator with a separate engine. The accessory generators of period aircraft powerplants were far too small to power something like the big carbon arc lamp of the Turbinlite, especially with its instantaneous high amp draw. Unlike the aircraft of today the electrical system power demands were much smaller, very minimal on some types.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Gondor on December 05, 2023, 12:08:20 PM
I like this idea but agree with the problems above. This is whiff world though so perhaps a smaller lamp from a Royal Navy ship or something which would not need as much power and then put a small engine/generator in the rear of the fuselage behind the pilot, it would make the aircraft slower but working as a hunter-killer pair or triplet would work. Several Light Whirlwinds flying in line abreast with both vertical and horizontal sepration as a net to drive the intruders towards the hunters would also work as an operational method.
Thinking along the lines of Data in the STNG episode set during the Klingon Civil Was where the Romulans' are aiding the Duras faction in cloaked ships.

Gondor
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 05, 2023, 01:46:32 PM
I'm now thinking in terms of a radar equipped hunter, no searchlight.
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: zenrat on December 06, 2023, 03:18:35 AM
Quote from: jcf on December 04, 2023, 11:30:43 AMThis article on Vintage Wings Canada shows why a Turbinlite type installation would be difficult, and how craptastic the entire project was as a concept.

Blinded by the Light (https://www.vintagewings.ca/stories/blinded-by-the-light)

I already linked to that mate.

Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: Scotaidh on December 08, 2023, 12:57:39 PM
What if you just used LEDs?  That'd solve your power and size needs in one swell foop.  ;)
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 08, 2023, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on December 08, 2023, 12:57:39 PMWhat if you just used LEDs?  That'd solve your power and size needs in one swell foop.  ;)

'twould also require a time machine.  ;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: scooter on December 08, 2023, 01:57:04 PM
Quote from: The Rat on December 08, 2023, 01:20:36 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on December 08, 2023, 12:57:39 PMWhat if you just used LEDs?  That'd solve your power and size needs in one swell foop.  ;)

'twould also require a time machine.  ;D
Vworp Vworp
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/t8l1Y825p_0AAAAC/vortex-tornado.gif)
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: jcf on December 08, 2023, 03:03:02 PM
Belt-fed flashbulbs.
;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: The Rat on December 08, 2023, 06:16:46 PM
Quote from: jcf on December 08, 2023, 03:03:02 PMBelt-fed flashbulbs.
;D

 ;D  I might still have some for an old Brownie Hawkeye!  ;D
Title: Re: Westland Whirlwind turbinlite?
Post by: NARSES2 on December 08, 2023, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: jcf on December 08, 2023, 03:03:02 PMBelt-fed flashbulbs.
;D

 ;D  ;D