Due to a mixture of my wishing to build my C-57 as close to the images posted elsewhere, and the length of time to achieve that goal I have removed that build from the group and replaced it with this ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52198346659_938d6dcff3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nwAaU8)
It's been sitting around waiting for an excuse to build it for years, as have most of my projects, well as the saying goes.... It's Time Has Come!!!
Probably the more difficult part of this build will be finding the instructions for both the kit and the conversion.... I know I put them down around here some where... some time ago probably :-\
I can always get a copy of the instructions for the kit through scalemates and I have a second P,12 conversion set in the stash so I can always borrow those if I need them.
I am thinking 60 Squadron FEAF to go with my VG Lightning F.6 so I already have decals from Kit's Dekals so that's sorted :thumbsup:
Much simpler that the B-57 conversion so there is a chance I can finish it within the time limit of the Group Build ;D
Gondor
If you've got the Dan Sharp F.155 book, there's a drawing of a P.12 with a gunpack and underwing Red Tops, along with standard tip tanks. Can't remember if it's an 8 or 9 airframe though. Still got the same radar nose as per Colin's instructions.
That's the one I'll slowly working on - the rest of the bits might go on something else Cranberry based. Now thinking on a variant with Blue Waters
Yes, it's a little picture from the brochure on P124 and shoes a possible armament for the aircraft as two Red Tops and a gun pack of four 20mm cannons and a twin door rocket pack roughly where the front of the bomb bay would have previously been.
Gondor
The same pic but a bit larger is in Battle Flight, as well as a fair few pages on Canberra fighter variants. I guess you've got it?
Quote from: Gondor on July 06, 2022, 08:15:40 AM
Probably the more difficult part of this build will be finding the instructions for both the kit and the conversion.... I know I put them down around here some where... some time ago probably :-\
I can always get a copy of the instructions for the kit through scalemates and I have a second P,12 conversion set in the stash so I can always borrow those if I need them.
Gondor
Kit instructions can also be found on matchboxkits.org (they have scans of most MBox kit instructions):
http://www.matchboxkits.org/product_info.php?cPath=27_36_63&products_id=366
Quote from: Snowtrooper on July 06, 2022, 01:44:18 PM
Kit instructions can also be found on matchboxkits.org (they have scans of most MBox kit instructions):
http://www.matchboxkits.org/product_info.php?cPath=27_36_63&products_id=366
Oppps, forgot to say in my last post that I found the Matchbox kit instructions and as I have a second P.12 conversion set I can always "borrow" the ones from there, saying that thought its pretty self explanatory as to what goes where.
Gondor
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 06, 2022, 11:18:54 AM
If you've got the Dan Sharp F.155 book, there's a drawing of a P.12 with a gunpack and underwing Red Tops, along with standard tip tanks. Can't remember if it's an 8 or 9 airframe though. Still got the same radar nose as per Colin's instructions.
That's the one I'll slowly working on - the rest of the bits might go on something else Cranberry based. Now thinking on a variant with Blue Waters
In addition to my previous comment on the picture you refer to Lee, the larger side view of an operational P.12 has 39 Squadrons badge on the tail fin which as you know is a P.R. squadron :rolleyes:
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on July 06, 2022, 08:15:40 AM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52198346659_938d6dcff3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nwAaU8)
Ooh, that pic got the little grey cog wheels clanking and grinding. I built one of them as a youth. ISTR a low parts count for a model that size.
Perfect for whiffing. I presume Revell repopped it?
Quote from: zenrat on July 07, 2022, 02:43:30 AM
I presume Revell repopped it?
They did for a while, but in grey. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Mossie on July 06, 2022, 01:38:56 PM
The same pic but a bit larger is in Battle Flight, as well as a fair few pages on Canberra fighter variants. I guess you've got it?
Yes I do. That P.16 variant looks interesting ;)
Gondor
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Gondor on July 07, 2022, 02:29:36 AM
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 06, 2022, 11:18:54 AM
If you've got the Dan Sharp F.155 book, there's a drawing of a P.12 with a gunpack and underwing Red Tops, along with standard tip tanks. Can't remember if it's an 8 or 9 airframe though. Still got the same radar nose as per Colin's instructions.
That's the one I'll slowly working on - the rest of the bits might go on something else Cranberry based. Now thinking on a variant with Blue Waters
In addition to my previous comment on the picture you refer to Lee, the larger side view of an operational P.12 has 39 Squadrons badge on the tail fin which as you know is a P.R. squadron :rolleyes:
Gondor
I didn't actually. There are some gaps in my knowlege.
Does it matter anyway? 4 Sqn ended WWII flying recce Spitfires, moved to Mosquito FB.6 post war for light bombing, then Sabres in the intercept role, back to FR with Swifts and then Hunter before back to the light strike role with Harrier. 8 Sqn spent most of it's life as a light bomber/strike unit before getting lumbering WW2 vintage (or thereabouts) aircraft in the AEW role - bit of a comedown for a Hunter jockey happier lobbing a 3 in rocket through a rebelling arab's window to be told he's dragging around a load of electronics over the sea.
My point is that no unit is stuck in a specific role forever. Besides which, the artist may have liked those markings or thought that as 39 were flying Cranberries and PR9s at that, they could be a good choice for the P.12 variant. The latter does make some kind of sense.
Just out of interest, between 1946 and 1958 39 Sqn flew Mosquito and Tempest fighter bombers and Mosquito and Meteor night fighters before converting to PR Canberras. So perhaps in Whifworld they converted to Canberra fighters from Meteors.
Pedantry Alert! Given the Canberra's 1940s origins, either the 'Canberra F1' designation might need a rethink, or it's operational debut needs to be earlier than the EE P12's real world development.
Your call, of course.
Quote from: kitbasher on July 08, 2022, 01:01:24 PM
Just out of interest, between 1946 and 1958 39 Sqn flew Mosquito and Tempest fighter bombers and Mosquito and Meteor night fighters before converting to PR Canberra's. So perhaps in Whifworld they converted to Canberra fighters from Meteors.
Pedantry Alert! Given the Canberra's 1940s origins, either the 'Canberra F1' designation might need a rethink, or it's operational debut needs to be earlier than the EE P12's real world development.
Your call, of course.
There was a P.2 proposed, however all the aircraft developed were Bombers and Reconnaissance versions so if the P.12 was the first Fighter version it would be an F.1, or are you suggesting that I have the Mark Number numerically after the version of airframe the P.12 is based on?
Gondor
Hi Gondor, you got me delving into my (admittedly meagre) Canberra references regarding the 'P.2', which is new to me so I must bow to your superior knowledge.
I do know the B.1 Canberra wasn't proceeded with, that Roly Beamont fleetingly suggested a 'fighter Canberra' in 1949, but the P.12 was 1956 onwards.
I was suggesting a mark number that could (with a bit of jiggery pokery) be shoehorned into the actual Canberra chronology, based on the P.12 timeline.
Unless of course the F.1 grew out of the B.1, which may need an armament rethink.
BUT.....this is your build and I'm sure the backstory will explain all. Apologies for the diversion.
Kitbasher, the P.2 is on Page 144 of Battle Flight by Chriss Gibson and published by HIKOKI publications https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Flight-Defence-Projects-Weapons/dp/1902109260/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19JPIS57EPEE5&keywords=Battle+Flight.+RAF+Air+Defence+Projects&qid=1657386128&s=books&sprefix=battle+flight.+raf+air+defence+projects%2Cstripbooks%2C48&sr=1-1
Anyway, back to the aircraft's designation. Going by what Colin writes in the paperwork that accompanies the conversion set, the kit airframe could be based on the fuselage of an Airfix B(I)8 with the wings of a PR.9. Others, OGL included have previously stated that the Matchbox PR.9 will do and that is why I am suing that as the basis of my build.
Further, Colin writes that the General Arrangement drawings for the P.12 were dated 5th March in 1956 which ties in with the development of the PR.9 at roughly the same time.
The U.10/D.10 was being built from earlier aircraft by this time, the B(I)12 and T.13 were allocated if not built by then for New Zealand and the U.14/D.14 was being built as well. The B.15 and B.16 designations were also in use for the NEAF aircraft too and the T.17 was also allocated as a radar trainer!
Now we get to the TT.18 which I saw flying while I served in the RAF. The winch system it used was not cleared for use until 1970 so I could pre-empt the marke number and change the P.12 to an F.18 as even if it took a few years to get into service it would still make it by the mid sixtiesthus kicking the TT.18 a little bit further out number wise.
To get to this point I have used Wikipedia's entry on the EE Canberra and the Crowood Aviation Series book on the English Electric Canberra and Martin B-57 by Barry Jones as well as the write-up by Colin Strachen for his excellent Canberra P.12 conversion set.
Gondor
Thanks for the tip, Gondor, every day a school day! I've seen and thumbed through the book but don't have (nor have read) a copy, you've certainly piqued my interest regarding the P.2.
Canberra mark number jiggery pokery for whif purposes can be difficult, but there were so many variants (a number of which were very similar) that it is possible to insert a 'new' mark without disrupting the rest of the Canberra timeline. Did it myself with this: https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=50442.msg957614#msg957614, although it's much less of a P.12 than your build.
Looking forward to seeing your Canberra fighter come together.
Its really good to see some of my items make this group build, look forward to seeing it progress.
Colin
Quote from: Freightdog862 on July 11, 2022, 07:07:18 AM
Its really good to see some of my items make this group build, look forward to seeing it progress.
Colin
A lot more would make the Group build if I had the time and build speed Colin.
Right then, regarding this build. I have finally decided that the Aircraft will be an F.18 for the reasons mentioned previously, it will belong to 60 Sqn and be stationed in the far east. I am thinking that 60 Squadron would be a composite Squadron with a flight of Lightning F.6 VG's and a flight of Canberra F.18's. This allows me to have My VG Lightning in the same pictures as the Canberra and also show off two of Colin's very nice conversion sets at the same time too.
Talking about conversion sets reminds me that I decided to upgrade some of the parts for the Airfix Canberra PR.9 I have in my stash, this means that the cockpit and undercarriage bays from the Airfix kit are now available for the Matchbox kit that is the basis of this build. If this was furniture they would call is upcycling, me I simply call it upgrading a very basic kit. ;D
Gondor
Done something eventually. It does fit better than it looks in this picture too.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52220639626_d62a07f4c1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nyyqPC)
A bit of fettling to get the Airfix parts to fit and I have shortened the interior floor as it was way too long for this build. Some of the Matchbox kit has been ground away, mainly ridges inside the nose used for location of the kit's interior and not used or just getting in the way. Unfortunately the lip of pilots instrument combing came away when I was removing it from the sprue so I have to rebuild that. It's next on my list of things to do as I will need to trim away some more of the kit's fuselage to get that to fit. It's not wonderful but it is a vast improvement on what was supposed to go in there that came in the kit.
Gondor
Managed to get the combing repaired.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52222222880_1ec8bbea56.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nyGxt7)
It's not perfect but it will do well enough as this is 1/72 scale after all
Gondor
Good enough for Government work. ;D
Would someone move this to Aircraft please, not going to be finished anythime soon. Thanks!
Gondor
Moved as per request