What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2006 and Older Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => Latin America-O-Rama => Topic started by: Gary on February 14, 2005, 06:08:16 AM

Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Gary on February 14, 2005, 06:08:16 AM
I was toolong about the other day and saw some pics of Gripens on a South American tour. They were in Chile at one point.

Just a thought.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Leigh on February 14, 2005, 04:11:47 PM
You'd need a big bowl anyways I prefer beans in my Chile :lol:
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: nev on February 15, 2005, 03:36:54 AM
Brazil have got those old F-5s

Argentina those old A-4s and Mirages

Chile have.....goodness knows what Chile have.  They may still have Hunters for all I know!  :lol:

I think the Gripen would be ideal for many S American countries.  Cheap and effective :)

If only SAAB had marketed the Viggen like this  :(  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Radish on February 15, 2005, 07:49:22 AM
Brazil wants the Flanker, Chile's got the F-16C, new-builds, and anyone else can't afford stuff!
But hey, in What If?-dom, anything can happen!!

And MY Gripen's haven't materialised yet, but there's lots of time....I still have lots to build, lots to do, etc..
:lol:  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Joe C-P on February 15, 2005, 08:13:10 AM
Brasilian Flankers, flying off the carrier Sao Paulo...  :wub:  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Bryan H. on February 15, 2005, 08:52:58 AM
As bad off as some AF's are, equipment wise; Bolivia, Uruguay & Paraguay are in a really bad way.  They'd love some good, old A-4's, Kfir's, Mirage III/5's, Hunters, Jaguars, etc... (with or without upgrades.)  It'd be a small economic miracle they could get their hands on Gripens, Mirage 2000's, Hawk 100/200's, MiG-29's, Su-27's (name your fav. modern fighter-bomber.)  However, in what-if land small air forces reign & reality/finances be damned!  B)

QuoteBrasilian Flankers, flying off the carrier Sao Paulo... 
Brazilian Tomcat 21's, Buccaneers (or A-6's) and Rafales off of a Forrestal-class Sao Paulo.  :)  Argentine Rafales, naval A-4AR's and Tomcat 21's off of any class carrier!  ;)    

:cheers: Bryan    
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Radish on February 15, 2005, 08:56:11 AM
Added a camera pod to my Bolivian-upgraded Crusader last night.
Start painting probablyThursday.
:P  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Bryan H. on February 15, 2005, 08:59:15 AM
QuoteAdded a camera pod to my Bolivian-upgraded Crusader last night.
Start painting probablyThursday.

Are you doing the cool, camo they use on their T-33's?

:cheers: Bryan
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: dragon on February 15, 2005, 06:54:25 PM
QuoteAs bad off as some AF's are, equipment wise; Bolivia, Uruguay & Paraguay are in a really bad way.  They'd love some good, old A-4's, Kfir's, Mirage III/5's, Hunters, Jaguars, etc... (with or without upgrades.)  It'd be a small economic miracle they could get their hands on Gripens, Mirage 2000's, Hawk 100/200's, MiG-29's, Su-27's (name your fav. modern fighter-bomber.)  However, in what-if land small air forces reign & reality/finances be damned!  B)

QuoteBrasilian Flankers, flying off the carrier Sao Paulo... 
Brazilian Tomcat 21's, Buccaneers (or A-6's) and Rafales off of a Forrestal-class Sao Paulo.  :)  Argentine Rafales, naval A-4AR's and Tomcat 21's off of any class carrier!  ;)    

:cheers: Bryan
Don't forget the F-16s!  Bolivia seems to be the "little brother" of many of the countries in the area (read: hand-me-downs).  In the past, Venezuela sold Bolivia its F-86Fs (in the early 1970s, after Venezuela had acquired them in the late 1940s, Bolivia flew these until the early 1990s) and more recently its surviving (locally modified) T-34A Mentor aircraft.  
    With President Chavez's seemingly visceral and increasingly stridently vocal hatred for the US, in a "What-IF?" scenario, it might be entirely plausible (if not real world possible) that Venezuela could sell their F-16s to Bolivia.  Think about it- Bolivian camouflaged F-16As (with drag chute).  Possibly not so much of a "What-If?" as much as a "Could-it-be?".
    Venezuela did briefly consider purchasing SAAB Aircraft before it purchased the F-16s.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: elmayerle on February 15, 2005, 09:19:25 PM
Venezula selling their F-16's to Bolivia so they could by MiG-29M's?
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: dragon on February 15, 2005, 09:43:32 PM
QuoteVenezula selling their F-16's to Bolivia so they could by MiG-29M's?
Not quite in that order.  I would think that the "hate" would take a back seat to "practicalities" before that happens.  This means that once the MiG-29s are active and the FAV has gotten used to them, then the F-16s could in theory be sold to the Bolivians.  Hopefully I am not a CASSANDRA, but really just an observation about the land where I grew up at.    
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Bryan H. on February 16, 2005, 08:41:32 AM
I'd never thought of Bolivian F-16's; that unusual Bolivian camo. would look great on a F-16!  

More with reality...  Bolivan upgraded, surplus A-4M's, Jaguars or IAI Kfirs would all be beautiful!  :wub:

I really ought to adopt Bolivia as my whif air force.

:cheers: Bryan
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Swedish Mick on February 16, 2005, 02:51:29 PM
QuoteI think the Gripen would be ideal for many S American countries.  Cheap and effective :)
If only SAAB had marketed the Viggen like this  :(
Well, at least the Draken and the 105 were marketed in South America.
The Draken were marketed to Venezuela in 1966 and again in 1971. In '66 as the 35XV, an export J 35D, but FAV chose the Mirage III. in '71, the 35G1 (=J 35F), 35G2 (~35XD) and 35GT (trainer) were marketed. Chile was looking at the A 35X in 1971.
In 1971, both Chile and Venezuela were looking at the 105, Venezuelan version the 105G (=105OE), but no deal.
Let's see what will come out of the Gripen marketing. Both Brazil and Mexico are interested, anyway.

Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Aircav on February 16, 2005, 03:01:35 PM
Well I'm going for a Brazilian F-29  :D  :D  :D  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Swedish Mick on February 16, 2005, 03:03:36 PM
I'm actually building a 1/72 Airfix kit of Saab J35F2 Draken as a San Martin aircraft with Managuayan markings. If you don't know where San Martin and Managua is, I can give you a clue. It's somewhere in Central America ...  
It all started with a french TV serie from the 1970's followed by cartoons, and when I re-discovered the comic book some time ago, that made it!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FBaja%2FCliffs%2F5590%2Fles_anges.gif&hash=615e45046aea70ab3c8d05024b74d5636a40797d)

http://modelbox.free.fr/Tanguy/Tanguy_Obje...ts_P/index.html (http://modelbox.free.fr/Tanguy/Tanguy_Objets_P/index.html).

Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: lancer on February 17, 2005, 09:22:53 AM
How about Chillean J35 Drakens???
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Joe C-P on February 17, 2005, 11:02:44 AM
Quote
QuoteBrasilian Flankers, flying off the carrier Sao Paulo... 
Brazilian Tomcat 21's, Buccaneers (or A-6's) and Rafales off of a Forrestal-class Sao Paulo.  :)  Argentine Rafales, naval A-4AR's and Tomcat 21's off of any class carrier!  ;)    
:cheers: Bryan
Oo, oo, I got it now!  ^_^ A new South American capital ship race!

Brasil was offered or considered USS Saratoga. In reality she requires too much manpower, but this is what-if. So a group of second-hands - F/A-18A/Bs, A-4s, A-7s, Buccaneers, S-2s, E-1s, and a 6 plane group of F-14A+s for CAP.

Argentina counters with the ex-Kiev, rearmed with French defensive weapons and Exocets, and carrying a flight of upgraded YaK-38s and French helos.

Chile then buys Invincible (allowing the RN to accelerate acquisition of their new CVs) and Harriers.

I just have to win a lottery so I can start building all these ideas...  :rolleyes:  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: elmayerle on February 17, 2005, 11:08:19 AM
Quote
Quote
QuoteBrasilian Flankers, flying off the carrier Sao Paulo... 
Brazilian Tomcat 21's, Buccaneers (or A-6's) and Rafales off of a Forrestal-class Sao Paulo.  :)  Argentine Rafales, naval A-4AR's and Tomcat 21's off of any class carrier!  ;)    
:cheers: Bryan
Oo, oo, I got it now!  ^_^ A new South American capital ship race!

Brasil was offered or considered USS Saratoga. In reality she requires too much manpower, but this is what-if. So a group of second-hands - F/A-18A/Bs, A-4s, A-7s, Buccaneers, S-2s, E-1s, and a 6 plane group of F-14A+s for CAP.

Argentina counters with the ex-Kiev, rearmed with French defensive weapons and Exocets, and carrying a flight of upgraded YaK-38s and French helos.

Chile then buys Invincible (allowing the RN to accelerate acquisition of their new CVs) and Harriers.

I just have to win a lottery so I can start building all these ideas...  :rolleyes:
I like it.  The Brazilian carrier could use the S-2T "Turbo Trackers" that Brazil did re-work theirs to and the E-1's could share the engine/prop changes and all the aircraft equipment changes.  Perhaps upgrade the E-1's radar with something newer?
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Swamphen on February 17, 2005, 05:47:54 PM
Perhaps instead of Kiev the Argies could buy that second Kuznetsov?
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: dragon on February 19, 2005, 10:07:38 AM
Hopefully no one is dumb enough to buy the Charles DeGaulle.  As I understand it, it would be a seriously baddddd buy.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Hobbes on February 19, 2005, 11:33:48 AM
Serves the French right for not buying a Nimitz. Wouldn't have cost them more than the CdG, and it would've worked properly.  :lol:  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: lancer on February 19, 2005, 01:29:12 PM
What, the Frogs buy American?!?!?!?!???? Thier Gallic pride would never allow it to ever happen.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: upnorth on February 22, 2005, 03:07:28 AM
Don't give the Brazilians aircraft carriers!!!, Look what happened to the HMCS Bonaventure! :(

Seriously though, the Grippen would make a good subject for the South American thing. The Viggen was a "Sweden only" thing from the start, thats why it was never marketed aggresively, though I did see a model of a Viggen in JASDF markings and I must say the Hinomarus looked pretty cool on it.

What would be the real interesting airforce to play what if with is Peru. They have a real mixed bag of Eastern and Western gear in reality, so just about anything would be game in the "What if" arena for them.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Amphion on February 22, 2005, 12:23:49 PM
Quote....Seriously though, the Grippen would make a good subject for the South American thing. The Viggen was a "Sweden only" thing from the start, thats why it was never marketed aggresively, though I did see a model of a Viggen in JASDF markings and I must say the Hinomarus looked pretty cool on it....
Neither the Viggen or the Gripen was designed from the outset as export products, allthough effort was/is made.
The export marketing of the Viggen was halted (stopped dead in its tracks) by US veto regarding the RM8-engine.
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: Gary on February 23, 2005, 04:46:09 AM
nothing like protectionism in a free trade world eh?

Sorry if that sounded political but does it mean that countries like Canada won't be "permitted" to purchase what they want unless the US approves? And I thought competition was a good thing.

Looks like it's time to get Bombardier tuned up to produce an indiginous fighter plane.

Where are the drawings from that Stealth movie? we'll just have to make sure we don't fly in a lightning storm. :P  
Title: Get a Grip(en)
Post by: elmayerle on February 23, 2005, 07:08:49 AM
Quote
Quote....Seriously though, the Grippen would make a good subject for the South American thing. The Viggen was a "Sweden only" thing from the start, thats why it was never marketed aggresively, though I did see a model of a Viggen in JASDF markings and I must say the Hinomarus looked pretty cool on it....
Neither the Viggen or the Gripen was designed from the outset as export products, allthough effort was/is made.
The export marketing of the Viggen was halted (stopped dead in its tracks) by US veto regarding the RM8-engine.
Considering how widely the base JT8D engine was sold, that seems rather silly, but no one has ever accused the US government, particularly the bureaucracy, of making sense.