Something else I've been working on: A Boeing 747-UWB.
The fuselage is 4.5 meters wider than the "normal" 747-400.
To lift the extra weight it has 6 engines.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123065922_5230b973b7_b.jpg)
TomZ
wow! Huge and weird, nice! :thumbsup:
(and I like the twin-boomers in the background too, Fw189?)
Quote from: Tophe on April 18, 2021, 10:32:55 AM
(and I like the twin-boomers in the background too, Fw189?)
Yes, I'm working on a series of FW-189s (real world, well almost....):
FW-189A: Reconnaissance aircraft (831 built)
FW-189B: Trainer (831 built)
FW-189C: Ground attack (2 built)
FW-189D: Twin Float trainer float-plane (not built)
FW-189E: Reconnaissance aircraft with Gnome Rhone engines (One built)
FW-189F: Reconnaissance aircraft with Argus As-411 (17 built)
TomZ
Fw-189 complete family (except what-if versions) ? I clap my hands 6 times! ;D
But let us focus on your B747+++ ;)
Quote from: TomZ on April 18, 2021, 10:30:08 AM
To lift the extra weight it has 6 engines.
Surely it would need longer (wider chord?) wings too? ;) ;)
I think it needs eight engines in four double pods like the B-52. :wacko:
Wide Body is an understatement. Really interested to see this evolve.
Would certainly raise the count of the self loading cargo... err Passengers.
Quote from: buzzbomb on April 18, 2021, 03:27:25 PM
Would certainly raise the count of the self loading cargo... err Passengers.
To increase the torture and discomfort level, have only two aisles... it would take hours to load the plane.
Quote from: frank2056 on April 18, 2021, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: buzzbomb on April 18, 2021, 03:27:25 PM
Would certainly raise the count of the self loading cargo... err Passengers.
To increase the torture and discomfort level, have only two aisles... it would take hours to load the plane.
Surely it has the same number of doors as the standard width one, so it's going to take ages anyway however many aisles there are. ;D
Quote from: TomZ on April 18, 2021, 10:42:10 AM
Yes, I'm working on a series of FW-189s (real world, well almost....):
FW-189A: Reconnaissance aircraft (831 built)
FW-189B: Trainer (831 built)
FW-189C: Ground attack (2 built)
FW-189D: Twin Float trainer float-plane (not built)
FW-189E: Reconnaissance aircraft with Gnome Rhone engines (One built)
FW-189F: Reconnaissance aircraft with Argus As-411 (17 built)
TomZ
You must be suffering from "masking fever" by now Tom ?
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 19, 2021, 06:35:25 AM
You must be suffering from "masking fever" by now Tom ?
Don't ask.......................
TomZ
Gentlemen,
The design committee at Boeing of course already considered your concerns on the design before the aircraft was built and they found:
- There is no need for a longer wing. (Sorry Kit) The wider fuselage acts as a lifting body and together with the six engines provides enough lift.
Enlarging the wing would also cause problems at a lot of airports
- There will be three aisles in the main fuselage. The seating being 4 + 4 + 4 + 4
- There will be no extra doors. Extra crew will be employed during embarking and disembarking to hurry people along
TomZ
These conclusions are convincing, yes, good, engineer! :thumbsup:
:( :(
They could have done what they optioned for the 777, have folding wings a la carrier borne aircraft.
Quote from: TomZ on April 19, 2021, 09:34:08 AM
- There will be no extra doors. Extra crew will be employed during embarking and disembarking to hurry people along
TomZ
with heavy, steel tipped boots, no doubt.
Quote from: frank2056 on April 19, 2021, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: TomZ on April 19, 2021, 09:34:08 AM
- There will be no extra doors. Extra crew will be employed during embarking and disembarking to hurry people along
TomZ
with heavy, steel tipped boots, no doubt.
and white gloves, like the Subway Pushers at the Tokyo Underground Railways who cram people into the coaches. These are the guys who flunk out of Sumo school ... ;)
https://www.amusingplanet.com/2016/08/subway-pushers-of-japan.html (https://www.amusingplanet.com/2016/08/subway-pushers-of-japan.html)
Quote from: frank2056 on April 19, 2021, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: TomZ on April 19, 2021, 09:34:08 AM
- There will be no extra doors. Extra crew will be employed during embarking and disembarking to hurry people along
TomZ
with heavy, steel tipped boots, no doubt.
I was thinking either Catle Prods or Klingon Pain Sticks! :wacko:
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on April 19, 2021, 01:24:58 PM
I was thinking either Catle Prods or Klingon Pain Sticks! :wacko:
Gondor
Required for the obligatory idiot who decides that they can cram their giant bag into the already full overhead compartment, thereby preventing anyone else getting past them.
Just imagine the number of extra overhead bins though! 🤪
Quote from: frank2056 on April 19, 2021, 02:04:51 PM
Quote from: Gondor on April 19, 2021, 01:24:58 PM
I was thinking either Catle Prods or Klingon Pain Sticks! :wacko:
Gondor
Required for the obligatory idiot who decides that they can cram their giant bag into the already full overhead compartment, thereby preventing anyone else getting past them.
Don't get me started on those idiots. All so they don't have to go through baggage claim. I've actually had bags dropped on my head from these fools.
Meh ! Make it a freighter.
There is probably more RPK (Revenue per Kilometre) out of Freight than pax anyway.
Freight goes where it is put without a single "Don't you Know Who I am ?" type passenger.
Still the concept is intriguing, something that , more than likely, Boeing were looking at during the heady Airbus A380 days, whilst these days they are probably wiping their forehead and going "Whew ! That was close. Lucky we did not do THAT !"
Quote from: buzzbomb on April 19, 2021, 03:27:48 PM
Make it a freighter.
Lucky we did not do THAT !"
Boeing built a cargo enlarged 747 see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-400_Large_Cargo_Freighter but enlarging in height, enlarging in width remained to be done, and I am happy it is done here completing the what-if family (not to be flown and sold, but for fun in shelves) ;D
A Wiiiiiiiiiiiiide Body Jumbo would make for an ideal flying hospital...
Quote from: TomZ on April 19, 2021, 09:34:08 AM
- There will be three aisles in the main fuselage. The seating being 4 + 4 + 4 + 4
Until Ryan Air get their hands on one ;)
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 20, 2021, 06:57:01 AM
Quote from: TomZ on April 19, 2021, 09:34:08 AM
- There will be three aisles in the main fuselage. The seating being 4 + 4 + 4 + 4
Until Ryan Air get their hands on one ;)
The 747-400D(Domestic) built for the Japanese market had a seating capacity of
up to 660 in
single-class all Economy configuration, 568 in a two-class configuration.
All economy 624 seat 747-400D LOPA (Layout of Passenger Accommodations).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51127864313_5ce165b7ff_h.jpg)
Tom's UWB should be able to add a
few more. ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 19, 2021, 10:33:06 AM
:( :(
They could have done what they optioned for the 777, have folding wings a la carrier borne aircraft.
Folding tips are standard fit on the 777-X (777-8/9/10X) because the new wing is of an increased
span. They're deployed manually by the flight crew, but they fold automatically.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/777Xbrochure.pdf
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on April 22, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
Folding tips are standard fit on the 777-X (777-8/9/10X) because the new wing is of an increased
span. They're deployed manually by the flight crew, but they fold automatically.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/777Xbrochure.pdf
Very interesting Jon, thanks for the .pdf link. :thumbsup:
I can see various 1/144 add-on manufacturers already carving masters for folding tips. ;D
I can't help feel that Boeing aren't REALLY serious about it though, or they'd have folded the wings just outboard of the engines. ;D
Mind you, they'd have to have power spreading then. Do the crew have to walk out on the wing and push the tips down, or do they just press a button in the cockpit?
The wingtip trails a couple of ropes and a couple of big guys pull for all there worth just like a blimp!
QuoteDo the crew have to walk out on the wing and push the tips down, or do they just press a button in the cockpit?
;D ;D ;D
The flight-deck crew push a switch. :thumbsup:
QuoteI can see various 1/144 add-on manufacturers already carving masters for folding tips. ;D
They'd need to do more than tips as the new composite wing is quite different from the earlier 777s.
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on April 23, 2021, 11:58:15 AM
;D ;D ;D
The flight-deck crew push a switch. :thumbsup:
I'll be waiting for the first reports of one taking off WITHOUT the wings unfolded now. If the USN can do it with Crusaders and Phantoms.......... ;D
Boeing 747 Ultra Wide Body
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51365651738_48843c083e_b.jpg)
In the late 1980s both Airbus and Boeing started to look into a very high-capacity airliner. In 1990 Airbus announced the Airbus A-380 which featured a full double passenger deck. The first A-380 flew in 2005 with the first aircraft delivered in October 2007.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51364672112_ebb42d3037_b.jpg)
Boeing considered several designs, most of them based on the 747-400 which was in service since 1989. At first Boeing went the same route as Airbus with a full double deck 747. However, in 1990 a switch was made to a wider bodied airliner. This became the 747 UWB (Ultra-Wide Body) which featured a 3 metre plug in in the middle of the fuselage. To cope with the extra weight a six engine lay-out was chosen. At first it was thought a longer wing was necessary, but wind tunnel tests showed that the wide fuselage provided its own lift and a longer wing was not needed.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51364672302_e1ab2f2257_b.jpg)
The 747-900 UWB first flew in 2004 and provided space to 850 passengers in a normal configuration. The seating arrangement was 4+4+4+4 with three isles running up and down the fuselage. In an all-economy configuration, it could carry 1080 passengers.
The first delivery to the launch customer British Airways was in 2006 and in total 246 were produced before production was halted in 2020. The Covid epidemic and the resulting travel crises caused demand to dry up.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51366439055_7858a63a55_b.jpg)
Among the customers of the 747-900 were British Airways, Delta, Lufthansa, and China Southern Airways. Two 747-900s were sold to undisclosed private customers as VIP transports.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51366163804_a27b7dc6ce_b.jpg)
Model: Revell 1/144
TomZ
Wow! :wub:
Apparently, the flightdeck accommodates about 16 people...
:thumbsup:
Interesting!! :thumbsup: :mellow:
While... not many passengers would have access to windows to enjoy the landscape, I have heard that is why flying wing airliners have been rejected by the marketing despite technical performance and fuel/money savings.
Probably now with cheap electronics, passengers would be happy enough to see the landscape in the screen included in the seat in front of them, no need of personal window. The problem is cured, 747UWB will be sold in thousand numbers now! <_<
Ah, but think of the view the first row passengers will have with the windows at the front of the aircraft.
TomZ
ehehe ;D Yes, so nice places: a million dollars per seat! :thumbsup:
Very good.
The front row of seats would have been great flying into the old Hong Kong airport.
Which Arab Sheik would buy one and convert it to a flying palace? It would have to have a gold hot tub, dance floor, couple of bedrooms, and a rear ramp for the fleet of luxury cars...
On a serious note I can see Qatar Airways and Pakistan International Airlines having a few for the Mecca run. You need some seriously big planes for the thousands of pilgrims that do the Hajj every year.
Weird, but VERY cool! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Nick on August 09, 2021, 05:12:24 AM
Which Arab Sheik would buy one and convert it to a flying palace? It would have to have a gold hot tub, dance floor, couple of bedrooms, and a rear ramp for the fleet of luxury cars...
On a serious note I can see Qatar Airways and Pakistan International Airlines having a few for the Mecca run. You need some seriously big planes for the thousands of pilgrims that do the Hajj every year.
Arab Sheik, or former US President?
I'd put my bet on a Russian oligarch... ;)
Quote from: zenrat on August 09, 2021, 05:21:21 AMor former US President?
That stays airborne constantly, except to land in nations that don't have an extradition treaty for fuel and servicing?
I'd hate to think what steerage (economy-class) would be like on that thing. Hopefully not
(https://www.cnet.com/a/img/0w-qz3ZNFMo9ij9Bi3_a-nES_hs=/940x0/2018/04/16/da70a899-63a2-40ba-92c0-edeb3fcccff2/avio-skyrider.png)
I was going to have to go to the optician's again before I looked at that head on ; now I really, really do have to go :o That's got a really weird shape head on.
Wonderful Tom, just surprised no one has actually tried it ;)
Looks a bit like a flying axolotl. :o
Interesting cockpit shape! (-: It kind of makes me wonder how the 747 UWB - SP variant would look. I guess it would be totally disproportional...
That's great. :thumbsup: Reminds me of some of the pre-A380 studies, the UHCA and P500.
Good job :thumbsup:
I think it's a flying Typhoon submarine!
So who's going to build one?
Quote from: Paper Kosmonaut on August 09, 2021, 07:43:32 AM
Interesting cockpit shape!
Actually I had some problems creating a cockpit for this one. My first attempt just had a straight middle section just like the rest of the fuselage. But that didn't look right. Also with a pilot and a co-pilot they would be 6m apart if they would both sit at the side of the fuselage.
So that's why I came up with this shape.
TomZ
Looks the business :thumbsup: