Simply put, Boulton Paul navalise the Defiant as a competitor/replacement to the Blackburn Roc.
Decided that I would try building this as well as the Wessex as this will have even fewer modification than the Wessex will, basically just adding an arrestor hook.
Knowing that Kit has had problems with the fit of the cockpit I made sure that I looked at the instructions and performed several dry fit's of the parts to make sure the parts fitted. I files the front of the cockpit floor so that the cockpit would sit slightly forward ensuering that the rear decking around the turret would easily fit within the raised guide that Airfix mold onto the fuselage side to aid in fitting several parts. No pictures yet and I should start painting the interior today so I can start closing up the fuselage sooner than later.
Gondor
I can't see how Kit had so many problems - I've done three and all have been trouble free and I've yet to see anyone one another site have issues with the kit. It's been universally liked.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 21, 2020, 05:17:44 AM
I can't see how Kit had so many problems - I've done three and all have been trouble free and I've yet to see anyone one another site have issues with the kit. It's been universally liked.
Navalising it? Depends where the hook is going and what type it is. Definitely a wing fold and I'd also take the opportunity to add some forward firing guns - the Navy liked more roles for their aircraft, hence the Skue being used as a fighter as well as a strike aircraft.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 21, 2020, 05:17:44 AM
I can't see how Kit had so many problems - I've done three and all have been trouble free and I've yet to see anyone one another site have issues with the kit. It's been universally liked.
'Cos I wasn't paying enough attention I expect. ;D ;)
That and building three more kits at the same time, and not being in my usual environment.
Since I came home for a quick check on Sunday I've found FOUR more Defiant kits lurking around. Goodness knows why I got that many. :o
I have found one little problem, the left side wall detail that is added was getting in the way for the part behind the piolt's seat so needed a little trim but other than that.....
A from hook and no folded wings or extra guns, it's a protatype remember, modifyed from a normal Defiant as the first Protatype with aditional strenthening of the fuselage and the adding of the hook so that it could take part in trials abord a carrier. There will be no Big yellow "P" in a yellow circle as this was before that was introduced which was post WWII I beleive.
Gondor
The yellow P in a circle was on aircraft flying in 1941.
There are some images elsewhere on the site showing the naval Defiant that lost out to the Roc. I ignored them on my two builds, it looks as hideous in profile as the Roc!
Here you go. 1941.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/IWM-CH14832A_Gloster_E28-39_205210674.jpg)
Quote from: Doug K on July 21, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
There are some images elsewhere on the site showing the naval Defiant that lost out to the Roc. I ignored them on my two builds, it looks as hideous in profile as the Roc!
Any idea where the pictures are so I can make sure mine looks nothing like it?
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on July 22, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
Quote from: Doug K on July 21, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
There are some images elsewhere on the site showing the naval Defiant that lost out to the Roc. I ignored them on my two builds, it looks as hideous in profile as the Roc!
Any idea where the pictures are so I can make sure mine looks nothing like it?
Gondor
I'll have a look, I think some might have been on one of my Defiant build threads.
Quote from: Doug K on July 23, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
Quote from: Gondor on July 22, 2020, 02:10:11 PM
Quote from: Doug K on July 21, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
There are some images elsewhere on the site showing the naval Defiant that lost out to the Roc. I ignored them on my two builds, it looks as hideous in profile as the Roc!
Any idea where the pictures are so I can make sure mine looks nothing like it?
Gondor
I'll have a look, I think some might have been on one of my Defiant build threads.
Ah, your Osprey builds. Had a look at them and this will be different to yours and far simpler.
Gondor
Darn, none here
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45544.15 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45544.15)
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45641.msg819711#msg819711 (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45641.msg819711#msg819711)
And I can't find the image I saw online - sorry
Quote from: Mossie on October 25, 2013, 06:08:49 AM
P.85 Naval Defiant, deeper fuselage and new vertical tail. P.85A was drawn up with a Hercules, P.85B with a Merlin. It was passed over in favour of the Blackburn Roc, a much slower aircraft.
Original images here:
http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art3537.htm (http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art3537.htm)
P.85B three view, with a side view of the P.85A
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant02.jpg&hash=410307fce2cd6ab197bd0de4f9d39949107d9e01) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant02.jpg.html)
P.85A with it's boots on:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant03.jpg&hash=ca86cf2fce976b4c138241c0e004be4fa02e3193) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant03.jpg.html)
P.85A details
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant01.jpg&hash=0fd5295b37ae8756183557e0e8635a6a3ddd2074) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant01.jpg.html)
Quote from: The Wooksta! on July 23, 2020, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Mossie on October 25, 2013, 06:08:49 AM
P.85 Naval Defiant, deeper fuselage and new vertical tail. P.85A was drawn up with a Hercules, P.85B with a Merlin. It was passed over in favour of the Blackburn Roc, a much slower aircraft.
Original images here:
http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art3537.htm (http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art3537.htm)
P.85B three view, with a side view of the P.85A
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant02.jpg&hash=410307fce2cd6ab197bd0de4f9d39949107d9e01) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant02.jpg.html)
P.85A with it's boots on:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant03.jpg&hash=ca86cf2fce976b4c138241c0e004be4fa02e3193) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant03.jpg.html)
P.85A details
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FBoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant01.jpg&hash=0fd5295b37ae8756183557e0e8635a6a3ddd2074) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/BoultonPaulP85NavalDefiant01.jpg.html)
That's the one I was looking for !!!!
Thought I better do something and post some progress pictures
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50352957803_1c3baa4be9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jHw55T)
Here you can see that I have the wings and fuselage together, no problems in getting it to fit corectly as I did something novel, I followed the instructions so I didn't end up with the problem that Kit had.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50353818147_a3cf8d9ca0.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jHAtQp)
The thin brass tube sticking through the side of the fuselage acupunture style is actually some Albion Alloy 0.3i/d 0.5 o/d tube which will be one of the legs of the A frame arestor hook. It's in this position at the moment as when attempting to make the mounting holes I didn't get both sides to match, so make a bigger hole and fill with tube that fits the hole and allows the hook frame to fit inside. With what I have I ended up with a compramze and used the nearest sizes I had. The alternative sizes are very much out of scale and wouold show it
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on September 17, 2020, 01:33:58 PM
........... as I did something novel, I followed the instructions so I didn't end up with the problem that Kit had.
So did I, but something didn't fit too well somewhere.
That's looking promising Alastair, the A-Frame hook will be a neat addition I'm sure.
Any progress is good progress.
I use that drill through tube method for fitting bits as well.
Nice Roc replacement :thumbsup:
Quote from: Gondor on September 17, 2020, 01:33:58 PM
Thought I better do something and post some progress pictures
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50352957803_1c3baa4be9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jHw55T)
Here you can see that I have the wings and fuselage together, no problems in getting it to fit corectly as I did something novel, I followed the instructions so I didn't end up with the problem that Kit had.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50353818147_a3cf8d9ca0.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jHAtQp)
The thin brass tube sticking through the side of the fuselage acupunture style is actually some Albion Alloy 0.3i/d 0.5 o/d tube which will be one of the legs of the A frame arestor hook. It's in this position at the moment as when attempting to make the mounting holes I didn't get both sides to match, so make a bigger hole and fill with tube that fits the hole and allows the hook frame to fit inside. With what I have I ended up with a compramze and used the nearest sizes I had. The alternative sizes are very much out of scale and wouold show it
Gondor
That’ll do it. I had a spare hook from an Airfix Hurricane and managed to bodge the fuselage insert into the Defiant for my Centaurus one.
Ordered a set of brass Albion Alloy tubes so that the fuselage attachments can be the correct size in metal. 0.5mm i/d and 0.7mm o/d. Just found that I do have some smaller tubing, 0.1 i/d 0.3 o/d which will help make a replacement pittot tube and the kit one is broken and the brass will be a bit more substantial.
Gondor
I was hoping to get some Albion Alloy tubing at SMW :-\
Looks like I need to look on line
Quote from: NARSES2 on September 19, 2020, 06:30:07 AM
I was hoping to get some Albion Alloy tubing at SMW :-\
Looks like I need to look on line
The tubing I ordered yesterday morning from Wonderland, 30 odd miles away, arrived this morning. Extremely well packed. Absolutely no chance of the tubing getting crushed or bent will all the cardboard around it, should have taken pictures to show the amount of packing I suppose :rolleyes:
Anyway, I have made some progress on the attachment points although I am still working out how to do the actually hook Thinking of flattening some brass rod which will then be bent into the hook shape, the stub of rod left with the hook will then go into some tubing at one end with the arms from the fuselage at the other end and then everything soldered together :-\ or I might just flood the tube with superglue. Regardless it's going to be a nightmare to get all aligned correctly and fitted into the mounting points on the fuselage sides.
Gondor
Well not much done today due to waiting on an electrician turning up to find out why my RCD kept tripping, three times this morning within the space of fifteen minutes! and all befor I got up properly!
Anyway, progress again. This time the fuselage mounting points for the A frame arrestor gear have been installed ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50364008932_99de2543d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJuHcA)
And just to show that that is brass tubing that has been fitted here is a picture will even smaller tubing fitted through the piece that is fitted through the fuselage
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50363843276_d86c60f89a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJtRXs)
If you look very carefully you can see the step between the inner and outer tubes in the picture, difficult to see as the wall of the tubing is 0.1mm thick. I also had to drill out the ends of the tubing after I had cut it to length as even running a knife over the tube was causing the tube to slightly collapse. Oh the fun I am going to have with this :-\ :o :unsure:
Gondor
Well that's the majority of that task out of the way
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50364273681_18048cd508_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJw4Ue)
And it moves, at the moment
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50364273676_203b7b3a36_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jJw4U9)
I have a little work to do on the retaining pin and I have to do some work on where the radio aerial will now go ad I have pinched the locating hole for that but it's getting there....
Gondor
Would they have retained the belly mounted aerial on a naval Defiant?
Even with the aft aerial post retracted it would have been highly likely to snag the wires I'd have thought.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on September 20, 2020, 12:18:57 PM
Would they have retained the belly mounted aerial on a naval Defiant?
Even with the aft aerial post retracted it would have been highly likely to snag the wires I'd have thought.
I'm thinking of makeing the aerial go along the fuselage side. I did consider mounting it across the top of the wings but every aircraft that I have seen has the aerial in line with the direction of flight which probably reduces the stress on the aerial wire.
Gondor
A few have it running diagonally from the dorsal aerial to the tailplane tip. Sadly I can't recall an example now. :(
The diagonal wire isn't the radio, sure it's something to do with the IFF.
The Grumman Tracker has a number of radio aerial wires, I copied them for the Grebe. You should be able to see them in the following images;
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Grumman-FB-2G-Grebe/i-3NXSXgj/0/419e55c9/X2/DSCN4535-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Grumman-FB-2G-Grebe/i-r8gHMDP/0/c90c848f/X2/DSCN4542-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Grumman-FB-2G-Grebe/i-dQfbZmr/0/306aee2a/X2/DSCN4533-X2.jpg)
Hope they help. :thumbsup:
Nice build there Wombat :thumbsup:
I was about to say that I had decided to go one way but realised that mounting the aerial on the side of the fuselage would cause the fuselage to mask the signal. Now decided to keep the orijonal aerial idea but move it forward a bitseeing that I have pinched the rear mast's location for the hook retention socket. A scale foot or two should do the trick.
Gondor
After a little bit of measuring with a scale ruler I have found that I can move the aerial pylons forward two scale feet. Unfortunately I don't know if the radiator will be in the way or not :unsure:
Nearly lost one of the main undercarriage legs as it fell to the floor to hide under one of the wheels of the chair I use for modelling. Found it without it coming to harm though which is good.
Loving the kit as it's going together like a dream. Some parts I have started to paint and others I am adding some detail painting as I go so once I have finished on the site it's back to the paint brush to paint a few bits.
Gondor
So at the end of another day some further work had been managed on this build
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376664506_091d633c25_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jKBzg9)
Lot's still needing to be done, control stick to be painted and fitted, turret detail painting needs touching up and then its canopy fitted and painted, the tail wheel needs to be fitted once the glue dries on it's extended leg and the aerials need fitted as well. The main thing is that I am getting something done and it is getting there unlike the two other builds I start for this GB.
Gondor
Well that's the undercarriage components all glued together, eventually :-\
Trust me to put the scissor links on after the rest of the undercarriage was in place so that such small and fiddly components are bound to be dropped or shot into space from the ends of a pair of tweezers.
Both of these things happened to one of the links, in fact I dropped it twice onto the carpet but by this time I was able to easily recognise the part as I had been looking for it after the tweezers spat it somewhere into the depths of the clutter on my bench :banghead:
Touching up of the paint around the turret and the control column means further work with them tomorrow afternoon and I have just remembered to attach the extended tail wheel in place :rolleyes:
Gondor
It's getting there
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50402554206_8bb58bc4c3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jMUgnh)
ever so slowly though....
Gondor
Despite the recent progress in painting this model there is still far too much to do befor the end of the extended group build unfortunatly. I hope to finish it by the end of the month.
Gondor
If you want it moved to the regular builds section let me know mate
Quote from: NARSES2 on October 06, 2020, 07:18:05 AM
If you want it moved to the regular builds section let me know mate
Yes please :thumbsup:
Gondor
Looking good !
Nice to see some progress!
One step backwards, two forwards.... perhaps.
Decided that the canopy and the turret should be reworked and probably replaced as I have made such a mess of them :banghead:
A fingerprint of glue on the main canopy and painted lines on the turret canopy that look as if I have used a 1/42 brush rather than a 000 sized brush :banghead: :banghead:
So a quick visit to the big Yellow H's web site to order a set of Montex masks for the kit, Another new tool Airfix Defiant and a set of Aeries replacement turret guns as well. This means I can canobalize the other Airfix Defiant I have for it's turret and canopy , there are Aeries guns with this spare kit, and the rest of the kit can become a single seater utilizing the spine and canopy from the Hurricane I have been "modifying this evening ;D Not much goes to waste around here!!
So at least a desition has been made and nothing has gone too far that it can't be repaired or replaced which if nothing else is a result :thumbsup:
Gondor
Did you ever get around to finishing the build? I was just wondering to myself if anyone had done a fleet air arm defiant :o
Stalled due to mucking up the painting of the canopy frameing. Not got around to getting a set of masks yet.
Gondor
Good to hear from you, Alistair. I've been missing your posting and was wandering whether you were alright. :thumbsup:
Quote from: RAFF-35 on September 05, 2023, 02:42:37 PMDid you ever get around to finishing the build? I was just wondering to myself if anyone had done a fleet air arm defiant :o
I've done a couple:
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45641.msg823395#msg823395
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45544.0.html
Quote from: Doug K on September 08, 2023, 04:05:16 AMQuote from: RAFF-35 on September 05, 2023, 02:42:37 PMDid you ever get around to finishing the build? I was just wondering to myself if anyone had done a fleet air arm defiant :o
I've done a couple:
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=45641.msg823395#msg823395
https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45544.0.html
:wub: :wub: :wub: They are very cool looking projects!