(https://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/WRK/us-europe-colores.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/WRK/us-europe-colores.jpg.html)
The color on Thunderbolt and Mustang look different. Is the last one, the first one fadded?
I think the colour faded considerably over time.
TomZ
US Army olive drab was one of those colours which, despite having a standard, differed radically between manufacturers from a near-brown to a near-green.
It was made cheap & fast, & wasn't an "essential" item (such as armour or wing panels), so QC wasn't great, either, so it faded like a bitch.
It wasn't the only one, of course, almost no-one was using what could be considered "quality" paint on their aircraft or vehicles (ships were a different matter).
Mr Wombat is right.
Some model paint manufacturers include a couple of shades of O.D. in their range to reflect this. One range includes "brown OD, Green OD and a faded version of both".
Quote from: Old Wombat on December 08, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
US Army olive drab was one of those colours which, despite having a standard, differed radically between manufacturers from a near-brown to a near-green.
Second that; AFAIK, there was no truly defined defined standard for this color, esp. on aircraft. On military vehicles it was a very dark, almost grey-ish green, but a totally different tone from the OD used on aircraft.
After lots of trials, my personal favorite for USAAF OD has become Tamiya's XF-62 - at least for a relatively fresh shade of the tone. From there, anything is possible - I have seen credible color pictures of WWII US aircraft in OD which were bleached and weathered so far that the tone appeared almost like a muddy brown!
And, while I love their acrylics, Vallejo are not IMO that accurate when it comes to matching an actual shade.
QuoteSecond that; AFAIK, there was no truly defined defined standard for this color, esp. on aircraft.
On military vehicles it was a very dark, almost grey-ish green, but a totally different tone from the OD
used on aircraft.
That's because the ground vehicle colour and the aircraft colour weren't the same, well not until
ANA 319 Olive Drab (note not Dark Olive Drab) which was the same as AGF Olive Drab.
There were in fact established standards for olive drab, as of Sept. 16, 1940 it was identified as
Color 41 - Dark Olive Drab. It was technically replaced in 1944, but the old standard 41 continued
in use. The paint faded fairly quickly and the shades that resulted varied by length of time and,
most importantly, location. The amount and strength of sunlight, was it a mild or a harsh climate
etc. While the paint
formulations changed over time, the colour standards did not, OD 41 was
supposed to match the OD 41 chip
regardless of manufacturer.So yes, they were painted to a standardized colour in the factory, mod centers etc., but it
changed quickly.
Steve Zaloga talks about Olive Drab from the ground forces perspective and touches on the
USAAC/USAAF elements as well:
http://mojobob.com/stuff/Zaloga%20-%20Olive%20Drab.pdf
Add to that, the fact that it wasn't an 'out of the can' colour, but mixed from Yellow Ochre and Black - so depending on the ratios used, how well someone could judge the resulting colour, whether they had a hangover, etc, the shade could vary.
As I understand it there was a 'standard' yes, but as long as it was within a certain range of shades, it was acceptable.
And bottom line, as long as it was a given value of 'Olive Drab' and the vehicle/aircraft was painted, it was needed at the Front, so off it went.
(Unlike the early days of WW2, where the Navy wouldn't accept a vehicle if it was painted Green, and the Marines if it was Grey... :rolleyes:)
Quote from: Rick Lowe on December 22, 2019, 12:47:22 AM
Add to that, the fact that it wasn't an 'out of the can' colour, but mixed from Yellow Ochre and Black - so depending on the ratios used, how well someone could judge the resulting colour, whether they had a hangover, etc, the shade could vary.
As I understand it there was a 'standard' yes, but as long as it was within a certain range of shades, it was acceptable.
And bottom line, as long as it was a given value of 'Olive Drab' and the vehicle/aircraft was painted, it was needed at the Front, so off it went.
(Unlike the early days of WW2, where the Navy wouldn't accept a vehicle if it was painted Green, and the Marines if it was Grey... :rolleyes:)
While the
original Quartermaster colour of WWI used pigments that were simply yellow ochre
and black, the later paints did not and they were produced by paint manufacturers, in factories to
government contracts and they were
required to match the colour chip for Dark Olive Drab 41.
Also the notion that paint mixing, even of just yellow ochre and black, didn't involve set proportions
is ludicrous.* The variations in
colour of OD 41 seen were the result of wear, fading, weathering
etc. after the fact.
Some USAAF fighter units polished the OD 41 which created a darker looking finish leading some in
model geekdom to claim it wasn't OD41 but was some sort of "dark green" paint , some jumping
through all kinds of hoops trying to prove it was a Brit colour, or car paint etc.
:rolleyes:
* Here's an example from WWI regarding PC10 Khaki:
Recipe for PC10 manufactured by the Ripolin Paint Company:
Nitro-Cellulose syrup * * 232 lbs
Butyl or Amyl Acetate * *15 gallons
Alcohol * * * * * * * * * 15 gallons
Benzol * * * * * * * * * 15 gallons
Acetone * * * * * * * * *20 gallons
Castor oil * * * * * * * * 52 lbs
Pigment * * * * * * * * 150 lbs
the pigment comprised:
Yellow Ochre (natural yellow iron oxide) * * 142 lbs
Lampblack * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 8 lbs
If upon mixing the PC10,
the colour was found not to match the ministry colour chart, it
was customary at Ripolin to add a small quantity of *red or brown pigment until the match
was made.
Oops, my bad... I sit corrected. (Insert "Hanging Head in Shame" Emoticon here...)
Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:
(I'm not really an Opinionated A55, I just play one on this forum... ;D)
Can't you just imagine the mess you could generate with 8 lbs of lamp black! :o
I'm quite certain that most of us could have great fun/cause substantial nausea with ANY of those paint ingredients. Nitrocellulose in particular could considerably enliven someone's day if used improperly!!
Quote from: Rheged on December 23, 2019, 08:43:09 AM
I'm quite certain that most of us could have great fun/cause substantial nausea with ANY of those paint ingredients. Nitrocellulose in particular could considerably enliven someone's day if used improperly!!
Fun, nausea, and
mayhem :wacko:
Quote from: Rheged on December 23, 2019, 08:43:09 AM
I'm quite certain that most of us could have great fun/cause substantial nausea with ANY of those paint ingredients. Nitrocellulose in particular could considerably enliven someone's day if used improperly!!
The solvents mix in particular. :wacko:
As an aside, years ago on one of the boats I worked on in Hawai'i the owner purchased
a lot of a Devo two-part epoxy-primer from a Navy auction at Pearl Harbor, evidently a
high-solids submarine coating. Application required reducing with Devo T-10 thinner.
The vapours of which can be
absorbed through the skin.Even working outside, masked and gloved you could feel the stuff, one of the guys
who worked on the boat mixed some up and used it down in the bilges, against my
recommendations and direction. After just more than five minutes he came up and
his face and arms were bright red and he was very wobbly, it took over an hour
before he was somewhat recovered. He never did that again.
"Chaos, Disorder, Mayhem - my work here is done."
Yeah, even the so-called 'safe' or 'non-toxic' stuff these days can be iffy - as for the old-time stuff? Fuhgeddaboudit!
Ain't them Learnin' Curves Fun?! :o