What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2019 Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => The Flying Machines of Unconventional Means GB => Topic started by: 63cpe on March 19, 2019, 03:56:29 PM

Title: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 19, 2019, 03:56:29 PM
Will post the usual opening shot of the parts and inbuilt kit at the beginning later. Bit excited as in finally made some progress in this project. I finally found the correct sized tubes! They're essential for this build! anyway here the first glimpse:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7922/47370435832_644346ab29_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2faXSdh)IMG_20190319_231722651 (https://flic.kr/p/2faXSdh) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

Anyone recognizes an academy ov-10. The brown blob's are the PT6 engines borrowed from an Twin Otter. :unsure:

Really not sure if it will make the deadline in time but who dares, wins...

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 20, 2019, 05:45:25 AM
Found the starting pictures back again on the phone. So, This is how it started...

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7925/46511740855_4d3854b87f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dS5Q7t)IMG_20190320_090658521 (https://flic.kr/p/2dS5Q7t) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

I started early this morning to make good progress. And progress was made!
The aluminum tube was cut in 4 pieces of 10 centimeters, ends were sanded smooth. Boring job was to cut 16 round plates from 0,75 mm styrene sheet. 8 of those are used as end plates of the tubes, the other 8 are cut again. This time a 20mm circle in the middle of the plates were made and presto! The first testfit for the rotors was successful (see left hand side of picture). Also cut out the main carriers for the for and aft set of rotors.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7892/32485005467_7e4ecc0371_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RuA9na)IMG_20190320_101436195 (https://flic.kr/p/RuA9na) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

All rotors almost finished. Main carriers for the for and aft set of rotors in front:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7823/46511740675_cdf116fa30_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dS5Q4n)IMG_20190320_113019451 (https://flic.kr/p/2dS5Q4n) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

all rotors finished and rotors attached to main carriers. Rotors are able to rotate!:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/32485005387_b701b8e16a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RuA9kM)IMG_20190320_123818278 (https://flic.kr/p/RuA9kM) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr
With the Flettner rotors in front of the fuselage it definitely look like a combine!

After some test fitting the pillars on the Bronco's fuselage proved to be to low. Now the front rotors touch the upper canopy. So remove the pillars and made me new ones. The aft set of rotors are going to be put higher than the set in front to make the best use of undisturbed airflow.

Next up are the engines. they are to be put just in front of the forward set of rotors.

For any further reading over Flettner rotors and its use on aircraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_airplane
And a video proving the concept is able to fly! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmvHfIAszo

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2019, 05:57:21 AM
WHAAAAATTTTTTTTTT?  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: Dizzyfugu on March 20, 2019, 06:53:32 AM
Lovely concept!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: jalles on March 20, 2019, 08:11:02 AM
That is so not what I was imaging from your initial post. What a crazy and wonderful idea!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: kerick on March 20, 2019, 09:32:07 AM
I thought I had seen some strange flying machines but this takes the cake!!
Definitely a concept I had never seen before! I'll love to see this one come along.
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: JayBee on March 20, 2019, 10:22:09 AM
I have heard of the Flettner wing system, but that video of the R/C model is magic.  :wub:
This model certainly fits the title of this GB perfectly.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X
Post by: loupgarou on March 20, 2019, 10:54:15 AM
Fantastic idea. What a weird concept.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: zenrat on March 21, 2019, 02:49:22 AM
Flettner wings are possibly a solution in search of a problem.  I wonder what effect on the handling the gyro forces from the spinning cylinders would have?  Maybe something unexpected a skilled pilot could use in combat?
I like it.  Can't wait to see more.
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: Tophe on March 22, 2019, 11:15:34 AM
Destroying a twin-boom layout is acute heresy, but here: the result is very nice, all right! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: jcf on March 22, 2019, 11:51:00 AM
The Magnus effect.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 22, 2019, 12:25:09 PM
Yep, lift is generated by the Magnus effect.

Now the fuselage is ready for the spray booth, let's test fit the contraption:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7848/40477650993_deb1199722_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24ESxqn)IMG_20190322_195743443 (https://flic.kr/p/24ESxqn) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7816/46720480044_fb1e7460c6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwF11)IMG_20190322_195829641 (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwF11) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7904/40477651153_041fabb9e1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24ESxt8)IMG_20190322_195900925 (https://flic.kr/p/24ESxt8) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7868/46720479894_f2ec296d5f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwEXq)IMG_20190322_195915541 (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwEXq) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7837/46720479814_4f3a036208_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwEW3)IMG_20190322_195920234 (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwEW3) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7864/46720479694_3979c7cf72_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwETY)IMG_20190322_195936238 (https://flic.kr/p/2ebwETY) by Buddy Holly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jetsonsspecial/), on Flickr

The protruding beam upfront is the main engine carrier. It'll end in a beam across carrying two PT6 engines from a Twinotter on each side just in front of the frontal rotor.

Hope you like it!
David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: Tophe on March 22, 2019, 12:28:08 PM
Wow! :wub:
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 22, 2019, 04:09:50 PM
That looks truly awesome.  :thumbsup:

Do the multiple 'rotor discs' spread along the 'span' improve the lift?

The Flettner rotors used on ships only seem to have one disc, right at the top of the rotor.
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: rickshaw on March 22, 2019, 06:58:43 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 22, 2019, 04:09:50 PM
That looks truly awesome.  :thumbsup:

Do the multiple 'rotor discs' spread along the 'span' improve the lift?

The Flettner rotors used on ships only seem to have one disc, right at the top of the rotor.

I'd assume that the disks prevent the air, traveling over the rotors from "spreading" and the direction of lift being lost.  Not such a problem on a ship with a vertical rotor but more important on an aircraft.
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 23, 2019, 12:56:01 AM
That's exactly why the discs are there, to prevent air from spreading over the rotor and create lift.

As the engines are to be placed just in front of the inner sections of the front rotors, most lift will probably created there.

By the way the spinning of the rotors control the lift. If rpm is low, less lift is created ergo if rpm is up more lift is created. I figured with four independent rotors and a rudder, one can control the aircraft in all three axis.

David aka 63 cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: zenrat on March 23, 2019, 02:27:52 AM
How are you powering your rotors?
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 23, 2019, 02:48:19 AM
Ehm, no...maybe a future version? I'm worried about the weigh. Think the motors plus the rotors will get too heavy and the spindly undercarriage will collapse.

David aka 63 cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: Tophe on March 23, 2019, 03:55:47 AM
Quote from: 63cpe on March 23, 2019, 02:48:19 AM
and the spindly undercarriage will collapse.
In the what-if universe, a weak-looking undercarriage may be very strong (titanium matter or other, top secret...) ;D
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: zenrat on March 23, 2019, 05:23:27 AM
Sorry Dave, I wasn't clear.  I didn't mean are you motorising the model, I meant how would Rockwell power the rotors on the real FAR-X?
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 23, 2019, 06:48:46 AM
Ahw, right! understood....

I was thinking about putting electric engines in the rotors. Electric engines are able to spin really high rpm's, weigh is depending on the type of engine (was thinking about coreless engines for their ability to accelerate rapidly, lighter in weigh and low torque). Electric power will be supplied by an apu just below rotor assembly and control of it all by fly-by wire...

David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: zenrat on March 23, 2019, 05:19:21 PM
 :thumbsup:

That's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Rockwell FAR-X (Flettner Air Rotor -Experimental)
Post by: 63cpe on March 24, 2019, 04:51:07 AM
Great minds think alike, isn't it?!

:mellow: :lol:

David aka 63cpe