What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Aircraft => Topic started by: Tophe on October 04, 2018, 04:40:11 AM

Title: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 04, 2018, 04:40:11 AM
Thanks to my dear wife, my models are tidy, while... sometimes, the models (changing place) are a little broken, this is normal.
This P-51D at 1/32 scale has no more canopy/spinner/propeller, this is an opportunity to create a Mustang engine-less derivative.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1415_p51ddd.jpg&hash=297d8ae2c135abde85c81098710805b30abe008a)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 04, 2018, 04:41:51 AM
This will be the 3rd life of this Mustang model:
-   1st life (1977-2009) North American P-51D Mustang: this was a realist Mustang, the only "what-if" side was the bright orange face of the pilot. I was 13 year old and I had no flesh paint and stupidly I did not think of using brown paint for an afro-american pilot, this orange was "crazy" (a little less than green or blue but not much).
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FD13_01.jpg&hash=c633284aa27688a7385e43da79b3b70043e7dfe1)

-   2nd life (2009-2018) Native American P-51^; to be more what-if, I created the triangle tail, I hided the guns with white tape, and I invented modified roundels for United Tribes of Amerindia.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FD13_06.jpg&hash=9cac26743914ee0058f5f4eb9387ccf5165e3bd8)

-   3rd life (2018-3018 and beyond...) Mustata: the central cockpit will disappear, as the engine exhausts, the belly radiator, and there will be a nose glazed cockpit, probably the tail will change again, with canard foreplanes maybe. Paint: all sky blue probably.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FP-51_persp_A_ao.jpg&hash=8136e465cc2b9aabdd673c232132db8b619de844)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 05, 2018, 01:53:43 AM
I have found the link for the old "2nd birth" 2009: www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=26024.0
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 05, 2018, 03:16:18 AM
Before "building again" (PSR++), the first step is deconstructing the remaining of classical P-51D:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1417_mustata.jpg&hash=c56b8694925360f55d41f318ac9cc5bea02028ba)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: ericr on October 05, 2018, 03:45:13 AM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Vorcha on October 05, 2018, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Tophe on October 04, 2018, 04:40:11 AM
... a Mustang engine-less derivative.

that's fascinating! :o

I'm usually a fan of rigid realism and neatless technical logic... but thinking about your project I feel like your aproach opens a sky high door to a free imagination. After I tried to make sense of this for almost 10 minutes I now think about "energy corridors" in the airspace, powered by fusion reactors on the ground, enabling emissionless civilian flight, where "engineless" planes simply "hook on" to one of these energy pathways and glide through the air freely and elegantly... Now -I- am hooked to this project! °_°
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: kerick on October 05, 2018, 09:57:22 PM
What an elegant solution!
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 05, 2018, 11:18:22 PM
Thanks for having found some explanation, like if I were not crazy! Good!
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
Vorcha, you're a genius!  You have, at a stroke, enabled all of us to do away with visible means of propulsion!  Just think what aircraft would be, without engines and the requisite fuel tanks!  Can you imagine how pretty the Concorde would have been without those big boxes under her wings?

How would this work over enemy territory?  Do these beams need only a projector, or does it need receptors as well?  Do aircraft still need speed to generate lift? Hmmm ... many worms here, as with any new idea.  But, huge potential!  :)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Vorcha on October 06, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
Vorcha, you're a genius!  You have, at a stroke, enabled all of us to do away with visible means of propulsion!  Just think what aircraft would be, without engines and the requisite fuel tanks!  Can you imagine how pretty the Concorde would have been without those big boxes under her wings?

How would this work over enemy territory?  Do these beams need only a projector, or does it need receptors as well?  Do aircraft still need speed to generate lift? Hmmm ... many worms here, as with any new idea.  But, huge potential!  :)

;D ;D ;D

I kind of get the feeling there is a little sarcasm in your comment, I couldn't hold back a laugh  :rolleyes:

Following Tophe's work from now and then I got the impression that in his What-If world there seems to be no militaries anymore so I assume there would be no "enemy territory", that's for sure.

As for aerodynamics, they of course seem to still be neccessary, otherwise we would enter straight into the air traffic of "Choruscant" or "The Fifth Element". So I figure there is some kind of new - not yet conceived - way to project energy in a way that it only works on some kind of "receptor" inside one of Tophe's planes, which in this way acts as an "engine replacement" - but otherwise that energy beam wouldn't interact with the air etc. at all. So it would be like "sailing" on air, and being dragged by, an invisible "current" of energy as if sailing on water, but being dragged by the wind. That's what I thought when seeing Tophe's creation and I kinda like it  <_< :o
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 01:24:58 PM
Quote from: Vorcha on October 06, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
Vorcha, you're a genius!  You have, at a stroke, enabled all of us to do away with visible means of propulsion!  Just think what aircraft would be, without engines and the requisite fuel tanks!  Can you imagine how pretty the Concorde would have been without those big boxes under her wings?

How would this work over enemy territory?  Do these beams need only a projector, or does it need receptors as well?  Do aircraft still need speed to generate lift? Hmmm ... many worms here, as with any new idea.  But, huge potential!  :)

;D ;D ;D

I kind of get the feeling there is a little sarcasm in your comment, I couldn't hold back a laugh  :rolleyes:

Following Tophe's work from now and then I got the impression that in his What-If world there seems to be no militaries anymore so I assume there would be no "enemy territory", that's for sure.

As for aerodynamics, they of course seem to still be neccessary, otherwise we would enter straight into the air traffic of "Choruscant" or "The Fifth Element". So I figure there is some kind of new - not yet conceived - way to project energy in a way that it only works on some kind of "receptor" inside one of Tophe's planes, which in this way acts as an "engine replacement" - but otherwise that energy beam wouldn't interact with the air etc. at all. So it would be like "sailing" on air, and being dragged by, an invisible "current" of energy as if sailing on water, but being dragged by the wind. That's what I thought when seeing Tophe's creation and I kinda like it  <_< :o

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.  I really think your theory has made possible a completely new level of Whiffery. 

In the '70s I read a book about a guy who invented a Sky Hook.  It was powered  by super-batteries which he loaded into his Piper  - Cherokee, I think? - call-sign "22T" -> 'Two Two Tango'.  He took off normally, engaged the Sky Hook, switched off the engine, and (on internal oxygen) climbed to airliner heights.  He was seen by several, IIRC, who reported a Cherokee about 10K higher than its normal rating, with the prop stationary.  The recording of the pilots' reports then forced the Powers That Be to take our hero seriously, and the Sky Hook went on to be Happily Ever After.  I don't recall the name of the book, but someone may.
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Vorcha on October 06, 2018, 02:36:34 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 01:24:58 PM
Quote from: Vorcha on October 06, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: Scotaidh on October 06, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
Vorcha, you're a genius!  You have, at a stroke, enabled all of us to do away with visible means of propulsion!  Just think what aircraft would be, without engines and the requisite fuel tanks!  Can you imagine how pretty the Concorde would have been without those big boxes under her wings?

How would this work over enemy territory?  Do these beams need only a projector, or does it need receptors as well?  Do aircraft still need speed to generate lift? Hmmm ... many worms here, as with any new idea.  But, huge potential!  :)

;D ;D ;D

I kind of get the feeling there is a little sarcasm in your comment, I couldn't hold back a laugh  :rolleyes:

Following Tophe's work from now and then I got the impression that in his What-If world there seems to be no militaries anymore so I assume there would be no "enemy territory", that's for sure.

As for aerodynamics, they of course seem to still be neccessary, otherwise we would enter straight into the air traffic of "Choruscant" or "The Fifth Element". So I figure there is some kind of new - not yet conceived - way to project energy in a way that it only works on some kind of "receptor" inside one of Tophe's planes, which in this way acts as an "engine replacement" - but otherwise that energy beam wouldn't interact with the air etc. at all. So it would be like "sailing" on air, and being dragged by, an invisible "current" of energy as if sailing on water, but being dragged by the wind. That's what I thought when seeing Tophe's creation and I kinda like it  <_< :o

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.  I really think your theory has made possible a completely new level of Whiffery. 

In the '70s I read a book about a guy who invented a Sky Hook.  It was powered  by super-batteries which he loaded into his Piper  - Cherokee, I think? - call-sign "22T" -> 'Two Two Tango'.  He took off normally, engaged the Sky Hook, switched off the engine, and (on internal oxygen) climbed to airliner heights.  He was seen by several, IIRC, who reported a Cherokee about 10K higher than its normal rating, with the prop stationary.  The recording of the pilots' reports then forced the Powers That Be to take our hero seriously, and the Sky Hook went on to be Happily Ever After.  I don't recall the name of the book, but someone may.

°o° wow. thats a book I'd like to read.

EDIT: there is a book on amazon called "Skyhook", but from the description it doesn't seem to be the book you're talking about.
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: kerick on October 06, 2018, 08:36:34 PM
Makes me think of something like energy highways propelling vehicles from point A to point B Like George Jetson on his way to work. The energy current sweeping a vehicle along sounds good to me. Any way you look at it, it leaves tons of whiffing options! I say let's get to it!
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 08, 2018, 03:40:31 AM
After this pleasant dream about explanation, let me go back to plastic hardwork, starting to fill the huge holes with plastic, before adding putty in quantity:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1418_mustata.jpg&hash=033a3f9b479ccc193ae56523fdd8785abe113cf3)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 16, 2018, 05:11:37 AM
Putty is added, little by little. And I have removed the tailplanes (to become foreplanes):
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1421_mustata.jpg&hash=ea0d70431bec561cd54659a7688c80e647369fde)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 17, 2018, 07:44:56 AM
I consider 2 changes:
- Decreasing the span of this huge 1/32 model, taking too much room. The wing tips would become big winglets.
- Low foreplanes a very little distant from low wing seem bad, high forplanes may be better, a little like sesquiplane.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FP-51_persp_A_ar.jpg&hash=8bf387c66a4d27194e32e854aacd99413c8c8060)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 19, 2018, 01:50:12 AM
Removing the belly scoop (no engine --> no cooling):
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1424_mustata.jpg&hash=3f5a8e26601c35dc16c88761d0bf033edd8ddfa7)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: kerick on October 19, 2018, 07:53:26 AM
Carry on!
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on October 19, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
Thanks!
Instead of winglets, I have considered a biplane layout, with short span as well:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FP-51_persp_A_as.jpg&hash=0bdb542e86464a6c891acdec1e32035ea8450f92)

But that would be too much close to a model I already made, 1/72, see http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,45223.30.html
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 03, 2018, 08:51:53 AM
Little by little, putty has been added on this huge 1/32 old model. Now PSR time will come, not pleasant either :-\
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1449_mustata.jpg&hash=8fe9f62f22c6026a36152e0844919a076b4476d9)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 11, 2018, 08:00:10 AM
Ahem, sanding is veeeeery long with so much matter on this 1/32 model (not 1/144)... I have not finished the port side of the front fuselage, and not touched the starboard side yet...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1453_mustata.jpg&hash=d9b7c31e36664ba59cbd76423421d26ee411efac)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Scotaidh on November 11, 2018, 08:30:51 AM
To get down to a rough shape, I use metal files from my workshop to remove material quickly.  Once I'm down to the safe minimum, I switch to emery boards.
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 11, 2018, 11:04:18 AM
Thanks! I may try that, yes. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 12, 2018, 06:22:33 AM
Well, the main hardwork has been done on the starboard side now. I see better where there is a lack of matter, for putty again...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1456_mustata.jpg&hash=589af56d5d4b7e4026d17ec33ee342fba25b6214)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 12, 2018, 08:28:21 AM
Then putty again, yes:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1457_mustata.jpg&hash=7d1c5f9d86b32e5fb7bfce3d83884b04f68cd802)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 13, 2018, 02:33:23 AM
And putty addition also on the underside of the nose:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1466_mustata.jpg&hash=7c35cb6a28f215b0d0853f0fd0b048c11dd7b7d6)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 17, 2018, 06:43:35 AM
... sanding again... done...
... then putty again... done...
(I will have to order more putty...) :-\
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1471_mustata.jpg&hash=af92ef201ba87e7abcb257beb987cb2a0ba094e5)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 21, 2018, 02:54:24 AM
Quote from: Tophe on November 17, 2018, 06:43:35 AM
... sanding again... done...
... then putty again... done...
Same action, same result, still unfinished. (I have no more putty, 4 tubes are ordered...).
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1473_mustata.jpg&hash=30e0e6a8c571310da21d38bd4f8bca2920b55c3d)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 23, 2018, 03:31:23 AM
Tired of sanding, I have played sawing...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1476_mustata.jpg&hash=f551906c6a0cc0335f3596cd142471f084e13cec)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: ericr on November 23, 2018, 04:25:04 AM
 :o
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on November 28, 2018, 02:24:25 AM
Uh, if this is a question "what (a hell) are you doing?", see at the top of this page 2.
If this is disagreeing, sorry for this butchery, lacking room for storage.

The belated sanding is done:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1478_mustata.jpg&hash=202ae643945d5cdc62885c608fdd941b6dfe3ce9)
But there are holes remaining, and that will need putty once (or twice) more. I must wait to receive the extra tubes for this. The parcel is delayed because of the missing Su-27 1/144 in the same invoice (to avoid postage payment, reaching the bargain total...) :-\
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on December 01, 2018, 02:02:43 AM
I have received the putty, a big amount of it. And I have started filling "holes":
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1492_mustata.jpg&hash=cf73431a23418e5325db2b296e52a174bb64df11)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: NARSES2 on December 01, 2018, 02:27:24 AM
I think you could repair the M1 Motorway with that lot Tophe  ;D

I can just imagine the discussion in the Revell boardroom.  "We need to increase production of Plasto. There has been a huge surge in sales"  ;)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Scotaidh on December 01, 2018, 02:53:05 AM
Quote from: Tophe on December 01, 2018, 02:02:43 AM
I have received the putty, a big amount of it. And I have started filling "holes":
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1492_mustata.jpg&hash=cf73431a23418e5325db2b296e52a174bb64df11)

:)  I think that'd be about a year's supply for me, my friend!  :)  But hey - you can't do magic without the proper equipment, right?  :)  I'm fascinated to see how this turns out.  :)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on December 03, 2018, 03:59:58 AM
Thanks!
But you know: there is an explanation about my huge use of putty - in 3D, 1/32nd (left) is almost 3 million times bigger than 1/72nd (right):
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1499_mustata.jpg&hash=05266fab74b13ad859647f6295deac119427bcd9)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on December 09, 2018, 07:08:24 AM
Almost smooth...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1526_mustata.jpg&hash=d3d74e13aa89493d3af13603c43b14307bc18166)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on December 09, 2018, 07:17:08 AM
The last putty for the nose, maybe (I hope so...):
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_1529_mustata.jpg&hash=52571de837a4acd6259c631f7d737df3ce8e981e)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on January 19, 2019, 11:49:02 PM
This project is not cancelled (like the P-51P-208A under it): I have put a first layer of paint on the side above. I have to work on the canard foreplanes also.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2373_mustata.jpg&hash=7d653bde5c9f13a1e19836df41e895f6224829ac)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: ericr on January 20, 2019, 02:40:59 AM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on January 26, 2019, 03:59:06 AM
Thanks!
Well advancing:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2402_mustata.jpg&hash=1ba7ace3bdb6b98b67bce27abc9abc0df716228c)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on January 29, 2019, 03:58:21 AM
Finishing the first layer of paint on the side above:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2429_mustata.jpg&hash=c872cd52b3dac5637703b5c91b23c58f16217c27)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Vorcha on February 02, 2019, 03:43:47 AM
looking nice  :wub:
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on February 04, 2019, 06:39:11 AM
Thanks!
2nd layer of paint, the last one:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2468_mustata.jpg&hash=36d9346aad8ce2a6382605771a8399a6fdc0d7d2)
Finishing is scheduled for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on February 05, 2019, 02:54:12 AM
finished:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2481_mustata.jpg&hash=cd6d2a552cbb1fb084db9ec5b8c69717d1a913de)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: ericr on February 05, 2019, 03:50:12 AM

:thumbsup:

a completely original way of rethinking things, as usual !

Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Tophe on February 05, 2019, 04:02:22 AM
Thanks!
(In our French language, dear ericr, "original" means uncommon, not like in English maybe, where it means inceptive)...
And here is the 4 view usual picture of mine:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kristofmeunier.fr%2FIMG_2475_mustata_x4.jpg&hash=51b0319b7c24f3cf9eaa9af76555a303a4d4d55f)
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 05, 2019, 07:27:52 AM
Just about the only thing that shows it used to be a Mustang is the shape of the fin!

Amazing stuff Tophe.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mustata (3rd life of a P-51D)
Post by: Scotaidh on February 05, 2019, 01:04:32 PM
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: