As the Whirlwind will require a fair bit of p.s.r. I've started this one as well, which will also need a fair bit. So whilst one is drying I can work on 'tother ;D
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520001_44.jpg&hash=5af4334db6efcf874d198b43765df94e8bfb152d) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20001_44.jpg.html)
Ohhhhh.....Another to add to my 'wants' list! ;D
Ooh that should look rather tasty when done :thumbsup:
Oh, that's nice. PRU Blue should suit the bird well! <_<
I started the one I have Chris, but it's one of those which I did before my house move (now over 11 years ago) and it got boxed and I've not seen it since ---- I really need to get on with some of these projects I've started --- :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
There's a piece on the Vickers 432 in the August edition of Flypast Magazine
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on July 28, 2018, 05:10:20 AM
Oh, that's nice. PRU Blue should suit the bird well! <_<
I'm thinking of a scheme similar to the one the HF Spitfire's wore
Whilst waiting for putty to dry on the Whirlwind I started to clean up the resin on this. Not much to do at all the mouldings are very clean out of the box. Just a little bit of work for my smallest razor saw and some sanding pads. Some parts are a bit heavy though and I may have to pin the wing fuselage joints, which given my inability to measure anything correctly and then transfer even vaguely similar measurements to another surface should be fun :-\ Goes with my inability to cut anything like a straight/vertical line.
Think I need to check I've got enough Araldite in store.
Do you find Araldite better to glue all-resin kits than superglue Chris?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 31, 2018, 10:23:57 AM
Do you find Araldite better to glue all-resin kits than superglue Chris?
I only use Araldite (the 5 minute epoxy) where I've got some large or heavy, or both, parts Kit. Otherwise it's good old £ Store super glue.
With this the two halves of the wings attach either side of what are rather heavy engine nacelles and then that assembly is glued to the fuselage. So both wings are a tad heavy. I think that's the way I'll tackle them anyway.
The fuselage is split horizontally for some reason and is quite thin and the upper half is very slightly bowed. So I'm going try warm water and/or a hair dryer on cool and then epoxy it in the middle where the two parts meet for probably 3/4 of its length and then tackle either end after that's set. Must remember to install the tail plane before gluing the fuselage as it nestles between the two halves.
That sounds VERY complicated Chris. I wish you well with it and look forward to seeing the finished article.
Sounds more complicated then it is I think/hope ;D
Started work on this by tackling the interior. Kora's instructions are at best a very basic sketch showing part number 28 goes roughly here sort of thing, but they'll do as an aide-memoir.
Very little will be seen of the cockpit given the types small bubble canopy but I've used the rear bulkhead, floor and seat as supplied by Kora. Both the control column and instrument panel are on the included etch sheet (doesn't have something useful like seat belts though) so they have been replaced with styrene parts from the spares box, but I have used the etch peddles.
painting it latter and then gluing can commence.
Quote from: NARSES2 on July 29, 2018, 05:21:03 AM
I'm thinking of a scheme similar to the one the HF Spitfire's wore
Medium Sea Grey on top with PRU Blue undersides?
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 02, 2018, 08:04:35 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on July 29, 2018, 05:21:03 AM
I'm thinking of a scheme similar to the one the HF Spitfire's wore
Medium Sea Grey on top with PRU Blue undersides?
Yup.
Anyway work continues and the cockpit is just about done, needs some tape belts and that will be it. While taping the fuselage halves together to check it would still close over the cockpit I realised that the bowing of it meant that I could insert the tailplane after gluing the mid section, taking advantage of the bow, might be easier. I also noticed that the shape reminded me of one of the dolphin/false killer whales, but can't remember which one.
The 432's resemblance to the Mosquito is always striking. So here's playing with people's minds - Mossie with Spitfire wings in lieu of Mosquito outer wings, plus an under fuselage gun pack?
Mosquito:
Crew: 2: pilot, navigator/radar operator
Length: 41 ft 2 in (12.55 m)
Wingspan: 54 ft 2 in (16.52 m)
Height: 17 ft 5 in (5.3 m)
Wing area: 454 ft2 (42.18 m2)
Empty weight: 13,356 lb (6,058 kg)
Loaded weight: 17,700 lb (8,028 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 18,649 lb (8,549 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Merlin 21/21 or 23/23 (left/right) liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,480 hp (21 & 23) (1,103 kW) each
Type 432:
Crew: one pilot
Length: 39 ft 3 in (12 m)
Wingspan: 56 ft 10.5 in (17.34 m)
Height: 4.19 m (13 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 450 ft² (41.8 m²)
Empty weight: 7,427 kg (16,373 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 9,150 kg (20,168 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Merlin 61 V12 piston engines, 1,520 hp (1,133 kW) each
Dimensionally not much in it. Am tempted. Mossie would need pressure cabin, of course - the PR XVI and others had them and outperformed the 432.
Or mess up the muggles by finishing the 432 in Mosquito PR colours rather than high altitude fighter colours?
Interesting thoughts Dave :thumbsup:
Quote from: kitbasher on August 03, 2018, 08:56:27 AM
Or mess up the muggles by finishing the 432 in Mosquito PR colours rather than high altitude fighter colours?
That thought had crossed my mind at least once or twice, but I think I'm going to stay with the fighter, if only because the gun pack is moulded with the lower fuselage half :rolleyes:
However If I picked up a second example ? The likelyhood of that is closely linked to how well the wings/nacelles/fuselage fit on this example.
Really looking forward to this Chris, you've got some great GB ideas on the go.
Quote from: kitnut617 on July 28, 2018, 05:40:33 AM
I started the one I have Chris, but it's one of those which I did before my house move (now over 11 years ago) and it got boxed and I've not seen it since ---- I really need to get on with some of these projects I've started --- :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Yesterday I found it while looking for something else --- :o Looks like I got the wings and nacelles glued together but that's as far as it got -- hmm!
Whoa.. I never seen such a plane before!! Fantastic, go for the gusto. :mellow: :mellow:
How do you go about filing and sanding on resin?? I heard one doesn't want to be breathing the particles. Frankly, I'm kind of scared of mine now.
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 05, 2018, 04:26:39 PM
How do you go about filing and sanding on resin?? I heard one doesn't want to be breathing the particles. Frankly, I'm kind of scared of mine now.
Same as with styrene, but ensure that it's done wet. Well, the sanding phase that is anyway. Some resins are sifter than the putty so you need to be more careful, take it lightly and you'll be OK. Above all do it WET!
Exactly as Kit says. Use plenty of water and be aware that resin is softer than styrene and thus if not careful you end up sanding away far to much. It some ways resin is easier to work with and in others it's more fiddly, you just have to get in the right mindset.
Best advice I would give is to start with a resin replacement part or conversion piece. Then you've not wasted to much time/money/effort if you don't get on with it.
Anyway the fuselage is together and the Araldite smell is still dissipating ;) Some filling will be needed at both ends.
Thank you, guys. I have this lil feller here and have been tempted by it more than once.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V2IAAOSwImRYY13c/s-l1600.jpg)
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 06, 2018, 10:30:45 AM
Thank you, guys. I have this lil feller here and have been tempted by it more than once.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V2IAAOSwImRYY13c/s-l1600.jpg)
Is it purely coincidental that it looks like a Meteor had something to do with that? :o
Illegitimate son/daughter (??) of a Meteor and a Fouga Magister (look at the pilots cockpit)??
I've never seen either that model or heard about the real aircraft.
You learn something new every day if only you open your mind to new ideas :thumbsup:
Quote from: NARSES2 on August 07, 2018, 06:45:32 AM
I've never seen either that model or heard about the real aircraft.
You learn something new every day if only you open your mind to new ideas :thumbsup:
Just looked the actual aircraft up on Wiki - totally agree with you Chris - something new every day.....and wasn't it small! :o
Here is another kit of one of the Ikarus 451 series, in this case the 451M.
It is 1/72 and has a wingspan of 3 ¾ inch/9.5 cm.
I got this from the makers who had a stand at SMW about three years ago.
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/9057/XyiLXr.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/9822/TS1FDc.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/8688/Jsq6ZJ.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/8959/dM1dyi.jpg)
I realy must get round to building it sometime.
Neat looking little kit Jim.
Anyway progress on the Vickers.
Couple of shots of the goldfish bowl cockpit
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520002_48.jpg&hash=f08f395845cf631ff5f3f066d7397c862c75ed9d) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20002_48.jpg.html)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520003_48.jpg&hash=a6a34bb5e222eacaa77b8192c4017d386f2af890) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20003_48.jpg.html)
A shot of the fuselage showing the "bowing"
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520004_44.jpg&hash=1f7fb14f9033d31399d85c2cfb005489e8848c2a) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20004_44.jpg.html)
After the edition of the tailplanes and the warm water treatment
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520006_34.jpg&hash=27500490d21be0c3564a6912b0f0745c301128ea) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20006_34.jpg.html)
The wing/nacelle parts. The Mr Surfacer on the nacelles is to cover a few pin holes, the only ones I have so far discovered. A few more appeared after some p.s.r.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520005_38.jpg&hash=a655b8913e2641af1fe979adea5b1891136f024b) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20005_38.jpg.html)
8 individual prop' blades :unsure:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520007_26.jpg&hash=b987ab24354912173104104a2fc7e83b619f538b) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20007_26.jpg.html)
I found a couple of old Frog Hornet spinners and props and the spinners are exactly the right size :thumbsup: Slightly more pointed but a couple of swipes with a sanding sponge dealt with that. Blades are the right size but shape is a little different. I can live with that, so no gluing 8 separate blades :thumbsup:
That fuselage bow looks horrendous Chris, a nice job on straightening it. :thumbsup:
How warm does the water need to be to work well please? Every time I try it I either get it too hot and it goes all floppy, or it's too cold and nothing happens.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 08, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
That fuselage bow looks horrendous Chris, a nice job on straightening it. :thumbsup:
How warm does the water need to be to work well please? Every time I try it I either get it too hot and it goes all floppy, or it's too cold and nothing happens.
Yeah, what he said, that looked like a peeling bannana peel!
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 08, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
...Every time I try it I either get it too hot and it goes all floppy, or it's too cold and nothing happens.
Story of my life :o :o
Quote from: zenrat on August 09, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 08, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
...Every time I try it I either get it too hot and it goes all floppy, or it's too cold and nothing happens.
Story of my life :o :o
To much beer ? :angel:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 08, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
How warm does the water need to be to work well please? Every time I try it I either get it too hot and it goes all floppy, or it's too cold and nothing happens.
Trial and error really I suppose Kit. I start with a temperature similar to that which you'd bath a baby in and work from there. It varies depending not only on the thickness of the resin but also the make of kit. Some use different types of resin I think ?
Anyway at the risk of telling my granny how to suck eggs, it's obviously better to start off cool and work up in the temperature stakes.
We've a few chemistry bods on sight, so maybe one of those will know the actual temperature ranges ?
Anyway p.s.r. is continuing on the fuselage (what is it about horizontal seams ?) and I'm nearly there, but a few more pin holes have appeared.
I've also glued the inner wing portions to the nacelles and it was noticeable that in this cooler weather the Araldite was much better behaved ;) I've decided I'm going to glue these assemblies to the fuselage first and then when completely set I'll attach the outer wing sections. I think it's a little more sensible/pratical then assembling the whole wing and then gluing that, but we shall see.
the best temperature thing is guess work pretty much ( sorry)
ive had things go at tepid, and the resin for the chieftains hut had to be immersed in almost boiling, and I still had to use a lot of force on that, ( and then made certain I got it into cold tap water fast to freeze it in to position)
but I think Narses wisdom of start cool, and work hotter may be the best ( arbight longest ) way. Its just a case of so many variables.
OK, I have a couple of resin thingies on the 'Better build it soon' list, one's an Anigrand, the 2nd's a Unicrap and the third one's a Lift Here.
How much do you bet they need a different temperature for each one? :banghead:
Start with the Anigrand kit. They tend to be more robust
Thanks for that, tip taken on board. :banghead:
That'll be the Bell HSL-1 'mini-Chinook' I think, it's suitably weird looking and the FAA were interested in it at one time. I love the way the engine, a radial piston engine, is almost hanging out there in the breeze!
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/2268/pfWSSM.jpg)
Should be a good match with OGL's and Thorvic's recent FAA chopper builds. ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 10, 2018, 08:25:06 AM
Thanks for that, tip taken on board. :banghead:
That'll be the Bell HSL-1 'mini-Chinook' I think, it's suitably weird looking and the FAA were interested in it at one time. I love the way the engine, a radial piston engine, is almost hanging out there in the breeze!
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/2268/pfWSSM.jpg)
Should be a good match with OGL's and Thorvic's recent FAA chopper builds. ;D
I think this appears in an early Ladybird book, wearing RN markings. Joe has a picture of it I believe.
I wouldn't fancy being the pilot of that, front drive shaft (or is it just a pylon, I hope) appears to go right up between his legs, almost ;)
Looks very odd.
Progress is slow, but it's progress.
The kit has some issues when it comes to lining things up in a few places and I've had to adjust the fit of the nacelles in particular so that everything is at a reasonable angle to the vertical. Lets just say the kit has some challenges.
Some progress. Now have the inner wings and engine nacelles fitted and without the tail fin it has an almost Star Wars'esque "speeder" look to it or maybe in the real world it could pass as an Ekranoplan ?
I now have a complete airframe. The outer wing to engine nacelles need some fettling and then paint can start.
I've now got her fettled, I think, so she can have her primer coat this weekend.
I doubt very much if she will be finished in time for the G.B. close, even if I do grant an extension, but I'm not to worried as I want to get her ready for Telford so I'm not going to rush.
It's been an interesting build. It's not been difficult and if I'm honest it's a far better fit than I thought it would be and hasn't needed as much putty as I thought. However it has required me to think about it a bit and to plan the way I was going to build it. Particularly the order of construction which is not something I normally need to do. In the main this has been down to the sheer weight of some of the parts and their butt fit to other parts.
So onwards and upwards (quite appropriate in this case I think ? :angel:)
pics ! we need pics ;D ;D ;D
When she's finished :angel:
Well she won't get finished in time for the G.B. but she will go to Telford so I've moved the thread here.
Here's where she's up to
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520008_22.jpg&hash=e93bb72740a77807f0cfae196347056d0b50388b) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20008_22.jpg.html)
Cut the vacform canopy out, only one provided, and now need to fit it and fair it in before getting some primer on her.
Bold! Vac canopies scare me to death. One little slip...
Go for the gusto! This is looking badass. Bout damn time you stopped being a tease. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This was not easy, but the result up to here is good, congratulations! :thumbsup:
Looking awesome! Can't wait to see more!
Quote from: kerick on October 09, 2018, 10:21:56 AM
Looking awesome! Can't wait to see more!
I'm hoping to get the canopy on and settled latter this week, then she can be primed. So she is on schedule for Telford.
Well the canopy is on, but she's just the merest fraction to small, which is not my cutting out as I cut just outside of the marked line. Still it's only marginal so I've glued it 3/4 of the way around and filled the other side with PPP. Should be o.k. touch wood :angel:
To be honest I toyed with the idea of fitting it with a "bubble" style canopy from the spares box (maybe from a Tempest or Mustang ?) rather than its current goldfish bowl style, but passed on that.
Maybe Vickers used the same goldfish bowl canopy on the 432 as they used on the two high altitude Wellington marks? That shape would make for a better stress distribution under the pressure from the cabin.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 14, 2018, 07:46:52 AM
Maybe Vickers used the same goldfish bowl canopy on the 432 as they used on the two high altitude Wellington marks? That shape would make for a better stress distribution under the pressure from the cabin.
It looks as though they did Kit. Would make sense, especially for a prototype.
Nice one: it's looking good. :thumbsup:
I've yet to attempt a full resin kit. I have several, but I keep looking at them, then looking at the pile of nice, easy injection kits and thinking "nah..."
Quote from: Weaver on October 14, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
I've yet to attempt a full resin kit. I have several, but I keep looking at them, then looking at the pile of nice, easy injection kits and thinking "nah..."
Strangely I find some manufacturers* resin kits to be quite relaxing. Some indeed are simpler and easier builds then a lot of injection moulded ones.
* Obviously not Unicraft . Some of the latter Magna kits are a nice intro. They are also quite "chunky" and take some handling unlike some producers where you only have to look at a part for it to snap in two :rolleyes:
My first full resin kit was the Airkit Spitfire F21 and one I still have fond memories for. Revisiting it recently thanks to Bungle has been highly enjoyable.
Getting near to the painting stage so I thought I'd better sort the transfers out. Now I knew I had a Spitfire sheet with at least 20 options on it so I dug it out and would you believe that the only option I've used is the one high flyer option on the sheet :banghead: Or at least in the scheme I want to do.
So it looks like the markings will need to come from the various "spares" folders I have. Not onerous as the markings are fairly minimal, but just Sod's Law that it was the only flippin' option I'd used, and I can't even remember what I used it on :unsure: Mind you I had better check that I have what I want just in case. That bloke Sod again.
;D ;D
Typical!!!
First session of p.s.r. complete. There were some pinholes on one of the engine nacelles but the rest of the castings were clear of that problem :thumbsup: The only real area of work was the engine nacelle to wing joints. They are butt joints and the area they meet has quite an odd shape. Hopefully it's sorted now, or at least mostly sorted, but we'll see tomorrow when she gets another squirt of Halfords primer.
Quote from: NARSES2 on October 19, 2018, 06:06:37 AM
There were some pinholes on one of the engine nacelles but the rest of the castings were clear of that problem
Why is it that when you fill the pinholes and sand them back you tend to expose even more pinholes ? :banghead:
Anyway the major p.s.r. has gone quite well and those areas have had their second lashing of putty. Meanwhile those pesky pinholes have had some P.P.P.
Well probably another two p.s.r. sessions (neither that heavy) and we'll start hitting our old friend "the law of diminishing returns". See how we go when we get there.
PSR is done, I think, so painting can start either tomorrow or Sunday. Nice simple scheme
Maybe we'll have another picture ration too.... . . .. . :wacko: ;D ;D :thumbsup:
Always good to exit the PSR stage, I say.....
Quote from: TheChronicOne on October 26, 2018, 09:03:28 AM
Maybe we'll have another picture ration too.... . . .. . :wacko: ;D ;D :thumbsup:
Yup, when she's finished ;)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;D ;D
Top colour is on and I've started masking for the undersides. Markings will be minimal. I'm working on the basis that the few fighters that were built were stationed in 3 or 4 flights around the East Coast so that any German intrusions could be met farther out then the High Flying Spitfires could reach.
Most of the Vickers High Flyers were completed as PR Mk II versions and sent out East. In my world at least :angel:
Major paintwork done and touch ups complete :thumbsup: A few problems around the canopy area to be sorted out, it's vacform and was not the best of fits, but I can do those while I make progress with the overall Klear coat, transfers and bits and bobs fitting.
Only thing I can't sort is the putty visible inside the canopy, it's not to visible, but I know it's there :banghead:
Started on the undercarriage and I may be gone a long time :banghead:
It's resin, white metal and etch and given the quality of the mouldings is going to take some fett'ling. If all else fails then I have a "Plan B" in mind but hopefully that will not be needed.
Meanwhile I've been having thoughts about her markings. I was going to just give her an individual aircraft letter rather then that plus squadron codes. Now having some thoughts about that, but will probably stick with the original plan.
Bonne chance! Gear can be a pain and are sometimes one of my least favorite parts of a build. Etch, too?? *whistles* yeah buddy, better you than me! ;D
I'm glad newer mainstream kits are better in this department, at least, as far as the engineering and ease of assembling and placing them are concerned, but I have waaaay more old kits than new ones soo..... :banghead: ;D And like you, I've recently been dealing with short-run-shennanigans and those gear are a whole different story as well.
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 02, 2018, 07:10:38 AM
It's resin, white metal and etch and given the quality of the mouldings is going to take some fett'ling.
The white metal was ok, as was the resin wheels, but the resin "struts" were absolutely :banghead: Replaced them with plastic rod.
As for the etch it was very, very thin which meant after annealing it just basically buckled as I tried to remove it from the sheet Going to replace them with stretched sprue.
Think I'll be struggling to finish this for Telford. Feel pretty rough today for various reasons, and no I haven't got a hangover. Think I'll take it easy and as long as I can get some modeling done tomorrow I might be alright.
Time to coast a little bit! Some progress is always good. I have so many "bad" days where it seems like I go backwards that if I get anything at all that advances a build I feel pretty happy about it. ;D "Having low standards means never being disappointed!" ;D
Progress and she would be finished in time for Telford, but she won't be going :-\
When I fitted the exhausts on to the starboard nacelle they show just how skewed the casting of the nacelle is :banghead: I thought I'd dealt with most of the problems and could live with the rest, but no. Stands out like a sore thumb. If I'm honest I think it would take more skill then I've got, even had before my eye problem, to sort this out. There's a possibility the twist is a one off I suppose and other Kora kits I've built have been fine.
I will finish her, and post pictures but she won't be going tripping.
Aaaaawwwwwww. :-\ :banghead:
When finished it'd be good to see this lined up against a Mosquito, Chris.
Quote from: kitbasher on November 04, 2018, 07:15:40 AM
When finished it'd be good to see this lined up against a Mosquito, Chris.
From some angles the resemblance is quite striking mate. She is just about finished, photo's after Telford
It's that I've been thinking, just to wind up the rivet counters, to whif up a Mossie to look like one - FB.VI with its outer wing panels replaced by Spitfire I/II wings and a smaller, more domed cockpit canopy off something. Maybe a Lancaster mid-upper turret.
It might work. Certainly from certain angles
Just about finished. I'll get her done this week and post some photos so people can see the planform above all else which is quite interesting.
After her photo session she will be sent to the "cupboard of shame" although I have had a glimmer of an idea of how I can sort out the problem caused by the twisted wing - at least cosmetically. So maybe a challenge for 2019 ? We shall see.
Well after the trials and tribulations detailed above, caused partly by some bowed resin and partly by me not spotting it early enough she's finally finished. The phots don't really show the problem as I haven't taken any that actually show it and the propellers hide the most tell-tale aspect of it to some extent. Anyway she will not be going anywhere other than the storage box used for those models I'm not particularly happy with.
Vickers Type 432 – Viper
Some real world background.
The origins of the Type 432 lay with requirements set out in 1939 for twin-engine fighters with 20 or possibly 40 mm cannon. Vickers had originally set out a proposal for a Griffon-engine aircraft, equipped with a 40 mm cannon in a flexible mounting in the nose. Initially the Air Ministry encouraged development of this design but eventually interest waned.
So eventually via a rather convoluted process the idea morphed into what became the Type 432 and this was developed up to a flying prototype. In appearance it resembled, from some angles at least, a somewhat larger version of the de Havilland Mosquito. The pilot had a pressurised cockpit in the nose, with a bubble dome, similar to an enlarged astrodome. The pressurised cockpit took up the nose section so the 6 x 20mm cannon would have been fitted in a fairing below the fuselage, to the rear of the aircraft. The aircraft's elliptical wing was built using a unique stressed-skin structure, designed by Barnes Wallis for lightness. The top and bottom were manufactured separately, and then clamped together at the leading and trailing edges, this being named "peapod" or "lobster-claw" structure. This allowed a large internal space unobstructed by ribs, hence capable of housing large fuel tanks (similar to Wallis's geodetic designs). This would have given the aircraft quite impressive range figures.
The first prototype Type 432 flew on 24 December 1942. Initial trials revealed serious handling difficulties on the ground, amongst other problems, including whilst trying to land. Eventually these were fixed to some degree but at the end of the day the estimated maximum speed of 435 mph at 28,000 ft was never attained as the Merlin 61 engines did not run satisfactorily above 23,000 ft .
When the competing Westland Welkin was ordered into production, the second prototype of the Vickers fighter, the Type 446, was cancelled, before completion, on 1 May 1943. The first prototype was retained by Vickers for test purposes until the end of 1944, when the aircraft was scrapped after completing only 28 flights.
The What If
Eventually after many trials and tribulations the Type 432, now named Viper, entered limited production and saw service with two R.A.F. squadrons (310 and 616). These squadrons had their individual flights distributed along the east coast of the British Isles in order to provide long range interception capabilities for any high flying German bombers or reconnaissance aircraft attempting to penetrate British airspace, notably the Ju 86. In the event by the time the Vipers entered service these didn't really materialise and any threats that might have occurred could satisfactorily be dealt with by the high flying marks of Spitfire, which could also perform very well at lower altitudes.
Initially there was a fear that the Ju 86's might turn to night attacks, but given that the Viper was a single seater and the nature of the construction of its pressurised cockpit made it difficult to turn it into a two seater, a night fighter version was considered not to be a practical proposition. Besides by then the high flying Mosquito night fighters were coming into service and proved exceptional in their abilities to tackle what turned out to be a very limited threat.
So after some 12 months or so of service the Vipers were gradually withdrawn and the majority were quickly scrapped. A couple were retained by Vickers and A & AEE Boscombe Down where they did useful work in the fields of general pressurisation of aircraft systems and more specifically into the problem of how to escape from an aircraft flying at extremely high altitudes.......safely.
So there it is. In the end a frustrating build, but strangely an enjoyable one until I discovered that skewed nacelle !
Finished Model
A rather Mosquito like tail end ?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520009_17.jpg&hash=3d213cf2e5654dd5a3fea0f49e7954fd238634a4) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20009_17.jpg.html)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520011_10.jpg&hash=43d3bb4ae80743a565c84a8a29cba94ae9b9cb3d) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20011_10.jpg.html)
A rather intriguing plan view
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520010_11.jpg&hash=c901f2abe639a8561652e8e6f95eff7a2f3afd1e) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20010_11.jpg.html)
The Vipers fangs – 6 x 20mm canon
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa134%2FNARSES2%2FModel%2520Pics%2520012_8.jpg&hash=b54ba28c4a72cbc81cb05d2e709c4daffe63d10d) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/NARSES2/media/Model%20Pics%20012_8.jpg.html)
Looks very good :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
TomZ
A fascinating aeroplane indeed, and what a strange wing plan form too.
But it looks a great model Chris, as you say, like a large Mossie, but really impressive. :thumbsup:
And the backstory sounds very plausible indeed, just the sort I like. ;D
See there it turned out great! Just a little creative photography and posing required. ;D Too bad it's going to the dungeon, but I understand.
I've had cars and such that had good sides and bad sides and I'd try to park it in a manner where people saw the less busted up side so uhhh.... yeah.
My brain just keeps telling me it looks "wrong" because it looks too much like a Mosquito for the ol' grey cells to separate the two. :o
Nice build Chris, well done. Really is an uglied-up Mossie - Vickers should have been ashamed of themselves!
Brilliant build Chris, looks great.
Looking at the last photo, the one with your hand in it, I am amazed as to how small the beast is.
I have always thought that the "Mayfly" was much larger.
Jim
Chris has just got big hands.............. ;D ;)
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 29, 2018, 11:58:47 AM
Chris has just got big hands.............. ;D ;)
Perhaps so, but they are SKILLFUL hands.
I like this item very much; it has a flavour of Mosquito, with a slight touch of Hornet and a gentle sprinkle of Barnes Wallis.
I just don't like it. The model's fine, especially given it's such an awful kit, but I just don't like the aircraft. At all.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on November 29, 2018, 03:22:31 PM
I just don't like it. The model's fine, especially given it's such an awful kit, but I just don't like the aircraft. At all.
I'm with Lee.
Good work by Chris building an ugly (and not in a good way) aircraft.
It looks like someone swapped the outer wings for those from an unrelated aircraft.
Great build! :thumbsup: And the paint scheme suits the aircraft well, too.
Looks good, Chris, despite all the problems you had building it. :thumbsup:
Good build Chris, love the scheme. The wing shapes are kinda weird, for the one I'm building I'm using the 3-View in the book Aircraft of the Fighting Powers as a guide.
Thanks gents.
I must admit I think it's quite attractive from some view points and then from others it just doesn't look right at all. Indeed it goes beyond ugly in some ways. I do like the outer wing plan as it reminds me of a high flying Spitfire's wings, but do they go with the inner wing plan ? And the engine nacelles look almost out of scale in some ways. Mind you I don't think it's helped by the bubble style canopy. They don't look right at all and can ugly up any airframe you put them on.
Still it's done and is now safely parked. I just need to think of something else to put in the high flying scheme as it's one I particularly like, along with the latter 1945 SEAC scheme. So it looks as though I'll be digging one of my CMR Spitfire kits out of the stash to put in the pending pile.
As for my hands ? I've been told they are slightly on the small side, but definitely don't show any signs of having spent a lifetime of heavy labour, which they haven't ;)
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 30, 2018, 06:26:48 AM
I just need to think of something else to put in the high flying scheme as it's one I particularly like, along with the latter 1945 SEAC scheme.
I did my Hawker P.1027 (Tempest Mk.VII) like that --- for intercepting the early German jets
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvillage.photos%2Fimages%2Fuser%2F8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f%2Ffd93348c-6fda-41c2-8214-b3c1a4c757ed.JPG&hash=efeff7e5e5f835f015e78507855b49a76be6ee04)
I remember that mate. A lovely looker :thumbsup:
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 30, 2018, 06:26:48 AM
I must admit I think it's quite attractive from some view points and then from others it just doesn't look right at all. Indeed it goes beyond ugly in some ways. I do like the outer wing plan as it reminds me of a high flying Spitfire's wings, but do they go with the inner wing plan ? And the engine nacelles look almost out of scale in some ways.
I dug out the Aircraft of the Fighting Powers book again to see what it shows, in regards the wing planform. The inner trailing edge is dead straight but not perpendicular to the fuselage centerline. If you extend the line of the trailing edge through the nacelle, it blends in perfectly with the curved trailing edge of the outer wing. The leading edge however is where it all looks wrong, it sweeps back until it reaches the nacelle, but the leading edge of the outer wing doesn't blend in to it at all. There's hidden lines showing where the spars run, rear spar is dead straight from fuselage to wingtip. Front spar runs backwards from the fuselage to the side of the nacelle, then runs perpendicular to the fuselage center line across the nacelle, then sweeps forward to the wingtip.
The final result is impressive! :thumbsup:
Quote from: kitnut617 on December 01, 2018, 07:24:50 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 30, 2018, 06:26:48 AM
I must admit I think it's quite attractive from some view points and then from others it just doesn't look right at all. Indeed it goes beyond ugly in some ways. I do like the outer wing plan as it reminds me of a high flying Spitfire's wings, but do they go with the inner wing plan ? And the engine nacelles look almost out of scale in some ways.
I dug out the Aircraft of the Fighting Powers book again to see what it shows, in regards the wing planform. The inner trailing edge is dead straight but not perpendicular to the fuselage centerline. If you extend the line of the trailing edge through the nacelle, it blends in perfectly with the curved trailing edge of the outer wing. The leading edge however is where it all looks wrong, it sweeps back until it reaches the nacelle, but the leading edge of the outer wing doesn't blend in to it at all. There's hidden lines showing where the spars run, rear spar is dead straight from fuselage to wingtip. Front spar runs backwards from the fuselage to the side of the nacelle, then runs perpendicular to the fuselage center line across the nacelle, then sweeps forward to the wingtip.
Just making the leading edge from the roots to the nacelles perpendicular to the fuselage would be a huge improvement. That's the problem IMO.
Quote from: zenrat on December 02, 2018, 03:16:17 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on December 01, 2018, 07:24:50 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 30, 2018, 06:26:48 AM
I must admit I think it's quite attractive from some view points and then from others it just doesn't look right at all. Indeed it goes beyond ugly in some ways. I do like the outer wing plan as it reminds me of a high flying Spitfire's wings, but do they go with the inner wing plan ? And the engine nacelles look almost out of scale in some ways.
I dug out the Aircraft of the Fighting Powers book again to see what it shows, in regards the wing planform. The inner trailing edge is dead straight but not perpendicular to the fuselage centerline. If you extend the line of the trailing edge through the nacelle, it blends in perfectly with the curved trailing edge of the outer wing. The leading edge however is where it all looks wrong, it sweeps back until it reaches the nacelle, but the leading edge of the outer wing doesn't blend in to it at all. There's hidden lines showing where the spars run, rear spar is dead straight from fuselage to wingtip. Front spar runs backwards from the fuselage to the side of the nacelle, then runs perpendicular to the fuselage center line across the nacelle, then sweeps forward to the wingtip.
Just making the leading edge from the roots to the nacelles perpendicular to the fuselage would be a huge improvement. That's the problem IMO.
I agree with you there Fred, and modify the curved outer leading edge too, that actually is swept forward too. Maybe I'll do that with my kit, it hasn't progressed much more than gluing the wings/nacelle together
Well, PITA or not, it certainly looks good Chris - well done. :thumbsup:
Thanks mate
Great work on that! Certainly looks... different. ;D