What if

General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => Topic started by: strobez on May 18, 2018, 11:24:27 PM

Title: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: strobez on May 18, 2018, 11:24:27 PM
Y'know, I was poking around on eBay a couple of days ago and was looking at some older kits and started thinking about this.  Every time I build an older kit I think about how there's one less in the world for someone else to enjoy.

In my other collecting/hobbies... comic books is a good example, I know that even if I buy an old issue (assuming I keep it in good condition) it will most likely outlive me and be passed on to some future generation.  I can love and own it for now, but my ownership does not consume it.  But with model kits, it's a bit different.  Every time I build, say, a Monogram F7F Tiger Cat from the 1960s (probably the oldest kit I've ever built), it pains me somewhat that I am "taking it out of circulation".

Now I know, Revell has the molds and has produced new versions of the kit... but THAT kit no longer exists.  On the other hand, as a collector, I've always been a little dismissive of people who collect for value - comics, records, toys, whatever, that never come out of the packaging seem like such a waste to me.  I get that once the seal is broken, they are no longer "mint"... but it feels like we've robbed them of their intended use (or destiny).  So I also kinda hated to see the old bagged Airfix Supermarine S.6 that the shopkeeper in Singapore was so proud to show me.  He didn't look pleased when I told him if I bought it, I'd build it (and probably paint it WHIF yellow...)

Anyway, I was just curious if "regularly available commercial" kits (not some obscure resin/vacuuform) kit has gone extinct before.  Moulds lost, never to be seen again... and did anyone shed a tear?

Also, am I getting overly sentimental about the destiny of a piece of plastic?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: NARSES2 on May 19, 2018, 02:05:19 AM
Quote from: strobez on May 18, 2018, 11:24:27 PM

Also, am I getting overly sentimental about the destiny of a piece of plastic?  :rolleyes:

Quite possibly  ;) But I do know what you mean.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: dwomby on May 19, 2018, 03:27:43 AM
I have read over the years that the following moulds have disappeared - Frog 1/96 Vulcan, Valiant and Victor, Airfix Stingray (from the Gerry Anderson TV show).   There must be more

David
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: TheChronicOne on May 19, 2018, 03:42:03 AM
I keep hearing about a certain L-1011 set of moulds being missing or something but it sure doesn't seem to translate into a lack of kits on eBay.  :unsure:

It's an interesting question, though. It's possible that a kit that was produced at one time no longer has a single viable example on the entire planet but who knows!
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 03:44:41 AM
Also the Frog 1/96 DC-7, and a lot of ancient Aurora moulds, allegedly in a train disaster, just to name the most famous. But hundreds of ancient moulds must have disappeared, together with small forgotten brands.
Where are the Merit 1/24 racing car kits, apart from the 2 in SMER's hands?
And any old modeller remembers the Vulcan/Eaglewall aircraft?
Gowland & Gowland/Revell highway pioneers, and the Revell horse-drawn fire vehicles (last seen in Brazil)?
Adams/SNAP/UPC line of 1/40 guns, missiles etc? Many of the old Revell missiles, and the Monogram Snark?
Oops: just remembered: most of the Airfix 1/32 cars, both modern and vintage have disappeared, some fetch ridiculous prices on evilbay.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Steel Penguin on May 19, 2018, 04:13:28 AM
from the wargames world, games workshops original Land Raider ( the trapezoid one)  if I remember correctly  the tale was the moulds got dropped and cracked / smashed
don't know regarding the rest of the early plastics they did ( psychostyrene dwarf / orc, RTB01 space marines, imperial guard and squats )
but they ran them for a wile then they vanished.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: zenrat on May 19, 2018, 04:26:02 AM
The moulds for the Jo-Han 1/25 car kits have supposedly been "lost" or scrapped which has pushed the kits value up to silly prices.

I doubt many kits have actually gone extinct though because there are enough collectors who will never build their example because that is not what they are about.
What is a shame is the moulds for car kits that were lost when the manufacturers updated from one year to the next.  The only one that survives (if any) tends to be the last one of that body shape as they would cut a completely new mould when the auto manufacturer introduced a new look.  AMTs 68 & 69 Impalas for example.  The 68 mould was updated to 69 and then 70 with the result that they can now never repop the older kits.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: kitnut617 on May 19, 2018, 06:35:14 AM
A few years after I had been in Canada (back in the 80's), my Gran had called me to ask what I had done with my first stash I had started in the UK. I asked why and she said that she had just watched a TV program on BBC about how the value of plastic kits had risen from the time they were originally purchased.  Now I wonder what the score would be, if I had brought the stash with me back then.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Dizzyfugu on May 19, 2018, 09:59:39 AM
The HUMA molds are gone, too. This little German company went bankrupt some years ago, and esp. the later models are/were excellent, e. g. the Dornier Wal or the Focke-Achilles Drache helicopter. But AFAIK, the rest of the production stock was sold by the company owner's wife, and he destroyed - in a wake of rage and under the influence of rumored legal issues, too - the molds. Very sad,and it certainly pushes prices skywards, esp. for the exotic kits like the Fw Treibflügel or the aforementioned two kits.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: scooter on May 19, 2018, 10:23:47 AM
Haven't the Nitto molds gone missing as well?
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Mossie on May 19, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
Heh, I've got a partially chopped up Treibflügel  next to me right now.  I did the chopping before Huma went bust, although I don't think that'd stop me.  :thumbsup:

At a recent show, I saw several of the Frog 1/16 car kits made up.  If anyone still has the moulds, they're unlikely to be churning out kits again.  Some kits go for reasonable prices, but I believe people go ga-ga over the Dennis ambulance.

One of the Vauxhall Victors was built up as a battered stock car, the friend I was with is a car kit buff and was horrified!  I thought nothing of it, but it turns out it was a glue-bomb that the modeller recovered as best he could.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: TheChronicOne on May 19, 2018, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 19, 2018, 04:26:02 AM
The moulds for the Jo-Han 1/25 car kits have supposedly been "lost" or scrapped which has pushed the kits value up to silly prices.

I doubt many kits have actually gone extinct though because there are enough collectors who will never build their example because that is not what they are about.
What is a shame is the moulds for car kits that were lost when the manufacturers updated from one year to the next.  The only one that survives (if any) tends to be the last one of that body shape as they would cut a completely new mould when the auto manufacturer introduced a new look.  AMTs 68 & 69 Impalas for example.  The 68 mould was updated to 69 and then 70 with the result that they can now never repop the older kits.


I has a sad.   :-\     I've been trying to snag a Jo Han Cadillac coupe but they all go for more than $30 and now I know why!!
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: JayBee on May 19, 2018, 12:07:27 PM
Quote from: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 03:44:41 AM

And any old modeller remembers the Vulcan/Eaglewall aircraft?


Ah! Fond memories of Eaglewall kits both ships and aircraft. I particularly remember their Ju-87 Stuka.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: jcf on May 19, 2018, 12:13:29 PM
Some of the supposedly lost or destroyed moulds have turned up,
evidently they were just in storage, however a number are so rusted/damaged
that they're not usable for moulding without expensive work that would most
likely never be recouped.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 02:01:23 PM
Does anybody knows what happened to the Delta/Delta2 moulds? Tne Savoia S-55X, Fiat CR-32, Campini Caproni etc?
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: sandiego89 on May 19, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
Rumor was that the 1/144 Otaki C-5 Galaxy molds were lost, and the kit was getting crazy prices over the years. I believe we now have a newer kit (also at crazy prices). I have one in the stash and do have a bit of trepedation over the idea of building it, but do plan to do so.

I am a builder, not a collector (Mrs. Sandiego89 may not agree! 😀). I only buy what I would consider building, and generally will not buy multiples of the same kit.

I say kits were meant to be built, and we should do so. Similar to the classic car scene, or Warbird scene. Yes there are a few that should never drive or fly, especially sole survivors, but your average collector car, Warbird or kit, should be driven, flown or built.

Finally I do wonder how much longer the hobby will be around. Sadly it does not seem we are replacing builders as fast as we are losing them...   
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: kitnut617 on May 19, 2018, 05:53:54 PM
Quote from: sandiego89 on May 19, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
Rumor was that the 1/144 Otaki C-5 Galaxy molds were lost, and the kit was getting crazy prices over the years. I believe we now have a newer kit (also at crazy prices). I have one in the stash and do have a bit of trepedation over the idea of building it, but do plan to do so.

I am a builder, not a collector (Mrs. Sandiego89 may not agree! 😀). I only buy what I would consider building, and generally will not buy multiples of the same kit.

I say kits were meant to be built, and we should do so. Similar to the classic car scene, or Warbird scene. Yes there are a few that should never drive or fly, especially sole survivors, but your average collector car, Warbird or kit, should be driven, flown or built.

Finally I do wonder how much longer the hobby will be around. Sadly it does not seem we are replacing builders as fast as we are losing them...

I have a Revell 1/144 C-5 which is about 1986 vintage. Still embossed on the sprues is Otaki. I posted some pics of it on a thread here somewhere. Testors is supposed to have reboxed it too.

EDIT: found it, see reply #492 in the My Stash just Grew Again thread.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: ysi_maniac on May 19, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
AFAIK Airfix SA-2 Guideline 1/72 mold is lost
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Weaver on May 19, 2018, 08:03:17 PM
Isn't the Airfix SS France mold lost-and-gone-forever too?
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: NARSES2 on May 20, 2018, 01:09:45 AM
Quote from: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 02:01:23 PM
Does anybody knows what happened to the Delta/Delta2 moulds? Tne Savoia S-55X, Fiat CR-32, Campini Caproni etc?

Didn't they spend some time with Italeri ? I did have a couple of the Delta toolings and I thought that's where they went ?


'
Quote from: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 03:44:41 AM

And any old modeller remembers the Vulcan/Eaglewall aircraft?


Yup, and their ships - were they 1200th scale ?

Huma is one I miss, they were nice builds.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: kitnut617 on May 20, 2018, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on May 20, 2018, 01:09:45 AM
Quote from: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 02:01:23 PM
Does anybody knows what happened to the Delta/Delta2 moulds? Tne Savoia S-55X, Fiat CR-32, Campini Caproni etc?

Didn't they spend some time with Italeri ? I did have a couple of the Delta toolings and I thought that's where they went ?


I think you might be thinking about Supermodel Chris, that was after the owners of Aliplast split to form Italaerei and Supermodel. There's no mention of either taking on the Delta moulds in the PAK-20 book although Supermodel does have a similar list of Italian aircraft.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: kitnut617 on May 20, 2018, 04:51:08 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on May 19, 2018, 05:53:54 PM
Quote from: sandiego89 on May 19, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
Rumor was that the 1/144 Otaki C-5 Galaxy molds were lost, and the kit was getting crazy prices over the years. I believe we now have a newer kit (also at crazy prices). I have one in the stash and do have a bit of trepedation over the idea of building it, but do plan to do so.

I am a builder, not a collector (Mrs. Sandiego89 may not agree! 😀). I only buy what I would consider building, and generally will not buy multiples of the same kit.

I say kits were meant to be built, and we should do so. Similar to the classic car scene, or Warbird scene. Yes there are a few that should never drive or fly, especially sole survivors, but your average collector car, Warbird or kit, should be driven, flown or built.

Finally I do wonder how much longer the hobby will be around. Sadly it does not seem we are replacing builders as fast as we are losing them...

I have a Revell 1/144 C-5 which is about 1986 vintage. Still embossed on the sprues is Otaki. I posted some pics of it on a thread here somewhere. Testors is supposed to have reboxed it too.

EDIT: found it, see reply #492 in the My Stash just Grew Again thread.

It's quite possible that Testors have the C-5 moulds, they have re-issued the Otaki kit three times according to the PAK-20 book. And I also read that Testors owns Italeri -----
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:08:56 AM
Otaki did some rather nice 1/24 car wheel sets which I wish someone would recover the moulds for and re-pop.
Particularly the big and little jellybeans (AKA Fentons, slot mags etc).  I'm down to my last set of resin copies.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: tigercat on May 20, 2018, 05:16:04 AM
I think the PM models moulds were destroyed . no more cheap floatfires bought solely for the floats.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: McColm on May 20, 2018, 09:07:49 AM
I know that you will ridicule me for this but the Mach2  1/72 Br1150 Atlantic seems to have gone out of production.
I know it's not as good as the Revell one, which I think has also gone out of production judging from the prices on eBay.
They both have problems in the construction especially the wings on the Revell kit, cowlings and joining the two parts of the fuselage together.
As with the Mach2 Kit after you have cleaned up the parts, scratch built the interior and sorted out the fuselage gaps, it's not a bad kit.
L'Arsenal do a ATL2 resin conversion set but this is about the same price as you would pay for the Revell kit.
As far as I can see the vertical tail fin and the chin mounted FLIR are the main differences.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: kitbasher on May 20, 2018, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

The Merlin Vampire T.11.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: scooter on May 20, 2018, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

Revellogram's ancient P-61 in 1/48.  Or at least add sprues that *aren't* for ground maintenance dios.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 20, 2018, 11:13:09 AM
Quote from: kitbasher on May 20, 2018, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

The Merlin Vampire T.11.


And their equally 'orrible TSR2 as well!

Supermodel's SM55x and the MX72 are the old Delta moulds, I have one each and they say 'Delta' somewhere in the instructions IIRC.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: NARSES2 on May 21, 2018, 05:58:45 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on May 20, 2018, 04:42:04 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on May 20, 2018, 01:09:45 AM
Quote from: loupgarou on May 19, 2018, 02:01:23 PM
Does anybody knows what happened to the Delta/Delta2 moulds? Tne Savoia S-55X, Fiat CR-32, Campini Caproni etc?

Didn't they spend some time with Italeri ? I did have a couple of the Delta toolings and I thought that's where they went ?


I think you might be thinking about Supermodel Chris, that was after the owners of Aliplast split to form Italaerei and Supermodel. There's no mention of either taking on the Delta moulds in the PAK-20 book although Supermodel does have a similar list of Italian aircraft.

Ah yup, so I am. Thanks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: NARSES2 on May 21, 2018, 05:59:45 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

Airfix Re 8. Still gives me nightmares  :banghead:
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Weaver on May 21, 2018, 06:29:53 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

Old-tool Airfix Gnat
Revellobox Mystere 4
Old Polish (various brands) TS-11 Iskra
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Dizzyfugu on May 22, 2018, 05:21:49 AM
Quote from: Weaver on May 21, 2018, 06:29:53 AM
Quote from: zenrat on May 20, 2018, 05:25:26 AM
Are there any models which should be made extinct?

Old-tool Airfix Gnat
Revellobox Mystere 4
Old Polish (various brands) TS-11 Iskra

Second the Iskra, but I am not certain concerning the Mystère IV. Then I'd rather bury Matchbox' Alpha Jet, very deeply...
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: McColm on May 22, 2018, 06:43:08 AM
The Novo 1/72 Avro Shackleton MR3, is becoming a rare kit to find. Yes there have been copies resulting in warped fuselages and weapon bay doors that don't line up. The Czech Kit should only be bought for spare parts as there's a lot of flash to clean up.
The vacform 1/72 MR.1 should only be tackled by an expert, although AlleyCat do provide a multi-media conversion set based on the Airfix MR.2 donor kit. This kit does work with the Novo kit.
A word of caution the Airfix and Revell kits AEW.2 and MR.2 are not compatible, the Revell kit is cheaper and but lacks internal detailing but you can't see them apart from the cockpit. Whereas the Airfix kits come with alternative parts and tons of detailed parts. The kits are a bit pricey.
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: Snowtrooper on May 23, 2018, 12:18:17 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on May 22, 2018, 05:21:49 AM
Second the Iskra, but I am not certain concerning the Mystère IV. Then I'd rather bury Matchbox' Alpha Jet, very deeply...
Leave some space in the pit for Matchbox Harrier (devoid of any underfuselage details) and Jaguar (imaginary panel lines, both cannons on T.2, etc.) too. No, wait. A-20 Havoc too.

Though, it's not all bad that Matchbox jumped the gun and made jet kits based on mock-ups and/or prototypes, as they're the only way (except scratchbuild) to make the A-10 prototype (rudders, notably smaller M61A1 instead of GAU-8/A) or pre-production/early series F-14 (totally different wing glove) ;) Even at their worst they at least tried, unlike copycat manufacturers (Kitech/Zhengdefu/Mister/Mastercraft, etc.)

The PM Models kits that are not exclusive to them would not be particularly missed by anyone either (F-5 family, ex-Pioneer F-100C, etc.)
Title: Re: Have any kits gone extinct?
Post by: zenrat on May 23, 2018, 03:17:35 AM
Mmmmmm yes, mention of PM reminds me - the PM Ta 154 (and the Airfix repop) should go in the hole.