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Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Aircraft => Topic started by: DogfighterZen on March 19, 2017, 07:48:58 AM

Title: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 19, 2017, 07:48:58 AM
So, i finally decided to start work on another one of my "Holy Grail" kits, the 1/72 YF-23 kit that was initially released by Italeri, then reboxed by Revel, which is the box i'm using on this build, in 1994 by Tamiya and the final boxing was released by Testors, still during the 1990s.
I spent a long time looking for this kit on Ebay and managed to buy 3 boxings, the Tamiya, Revell and Testors, so i have all of my ideas for the YF-23 backed with plastic to do build them. :thumbsup:

This first build will be the normal one, i just love the look of this beast so, like with the F-16XL, i wanna have one as it was built... But that doesn't mean it won't be a whiff. I've got a few ideas for the scheme and markings but i'm still deciding which will be done. No problem as i'm expecting that it will take quite a bit for me to get to that stage, there are a few things that have to be done before it's even close to painting.

Work started today, while i was spraying the XF-69 nato black on the F/A-16W, i remembered that i could save some time so i got the top fuselage out of the box and sprayed it too. I included the F-16's fuse in the pic just for a size comparison... :o

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FliooZiE.jpg&hash=94db0d542e0130133d243e0ea29259b06f2e4513)

So, now that the Black Widow has been released, there's no way of putting it back in the box... :wacko: Hoping to get the rest of the cockpit assembled and painted today.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Captain Canada on March 20, 2017, 06:55:53 AM
Nice. Thanks for the comparison pic she is a biggy !
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on March 20, 2017, 02:50:58 PM
 :thumbsup:
It did get me thinking that i'll have to reorganize the model display shelf  in the shed to make room for it, when it's finished... :rolleyes:
Yesterday i only got to assemble the ejection seat, will try to get something done now...
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 05, 2017, 10:45:51 AM
Ok, after putting this bird aside to finish the F/A-16W and then the One Week GB, which was a very unexpected and spontaneous build for me as i wasn't planning on entering the GB.
It was just a coincidence that i happened to finish the F-16 on the first days of the GB so it was just a matter of choosing a simple kit and scheme, although the type of scheme was a first for me.

So now, opened up the box again and suddenly remembered what i had finally decided on doing to this model, being the worst of the 3 Italeri mold-based kits that i possess, because of some sink marks which lead me to believe that they're a clear reason for the kit to have been discontinued and never reboxed again.

The worst is on the wings, there are a few sink marks that have to be fixed, although not very serious, they're visible, and because of that, i've decided to elect it as my first test of engraving the panel lines on the whole kit. Looks like this will be a long term build...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fva04YKG.jpg&hash=67de6271b7b51c561cb5d52d9b642a967f7852e1)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZRWAEFS.jpg&hash=851f28dfd4f932c34a1a0976155209fc25434090)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNf4jsjT.jpg&hash=4043ca8c99aab872bb61177fd00b2a4d9417dc83)

There's also a small depression or scratch on the top of the fuselage, looks like maybe the mold wasn't properly clean or something was left inside the mold when they made this kit... :rolleyes:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqWigswE.jpg&hash=d4172bf99a37fd75a02a7ec4745fc5eec1d10416)

This is what's been done so far just some paint on some bits, nothing assembled yet...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYi9vYWC.jpg&hash=ad6e5503f4aa7aa993f6559dd07f16f781ba693f)

So, i'm going to start by doing some changes to the kit and when the cut and glue is done, i'll move on to the panel lines, seems easier to get everything lined up on both fuselage halves but we'll see.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: kerick on June 05, 2017, 05:43:20 PM
I'll be watching this as I have plans for a F-23 build when I can get a hold of one for a reasonable price.....
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 05, 2017, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: kerick on June 05, 2017, 05:43:20 PM
I'll be watching this as I have plans for a F-23 build when I can get a hold of one for a reasonable price.....

I know what you mean, it took me quite a while to find my kits, and quite a few Euros too, if i sum up the costs.
My idea for this first build follows the thought: " What if Northrop revised the YF-23's design to be more maneuverable, before the Dem/Val phase of the ATF competition?"
Will include some changes to the airframe itself but will still be closer to the YF-23 prototype than to the EMD F-23A.
The second build will be the F-23A, with all the upgrades it would've had, and the 3rd might become the NATF-23... I've got the kits and options to build, now i just have to build them. I'm glad that managed to wait til now to build this, cause i'm much more comfortable with my modelling skills now, and this is a "holy grail" kit for me, so i wanna do a good job.
I was lucky enough to be able to buy the kits when i found them on ebay, wouldn't have had the chance to buy them now. :banghead:
Anyway, real work starts tomorrow, first mod will involve some cutting on the engine areas, i'm giving it 2D TVC nozzles... :wacko:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 06, 2017, 05:35:17 PM
Well, on my last day of vacation, instead of starting by cutting, i got the Scribe-r blade out of the bag and assembled it to use with Trumpeter's rescribbing tool..

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVeHcjdN.jpg&hash=0919a3ff260e386ff1c83f64be4eeb62f4b28a99)

Started on the bottom fuselage, which had more lines than the top and will be the less visible so, if any big mistakes occur, it'll normally be out of sight... :rolleyes:
Didn't go so well, i started by following the raised lines as guide with the Trumpy tool, it took a bit till i got the hang of it and some lines came out a bit nasty, then i started using the Scribe-r tool and although it's a sharper tool, it's also harder to use but the lines come out better than with the Trumpy tool. Anyway, the crooked lines will be puttied over and rescribed.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQPE63NG.jpg&hash=6f90ed338f2ba7ede4988aba2f0f46bab68f9d0c)

I guess that practice will make it easier, cause, although i'm used to rescribing lost panel lines, this is different and harder... but i'll get there. :tank:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on June 07, 2017, 02:01:30 AM
I've come to the conclusion, through trial and error, that in 1/72 at least i'm better off drawing the lines on in pencil that re-scribing them.
Those look pretty good though.  Better than I usually manage.

Next time you go to the dentist ask her/him if they have a spare dental pick.  I have one donated by my dentist, Dr Sweary which has the tip at 90 degrees to the handle which is ideal for light scribing and cleaning out panel lines.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 07, 2017, 06:03:19 AM
Quote from: zenrat on June 07, 2017, 02:01:30 AM
I've come to the conclusion, through trial and error, that in 1/72 at least i'm better off drawing the lines on in pencil that re-scribing them.
Those look pretty good though.  Better than I usually manage.

Next time you go to the dentist ask her/him if they have a spare dental pick.  I have one donated by my dentist, Dr Sweary which has the tip at 90 degrees to the handle which is ideal for light scribing and cleaning out panel lines.


I've never explored many options on panel lines cause i think they're way out of scale on all 1/72 and smaller scale kits. Even on bigger models, too...
I know that it's all to make it easier to show detail but as we all know, on most real aircraft it's hard to see panel lines unless you're very  close to it and it's a really worn and dirty plane. I began thinking more about it when i started using AK's panel liner wash.
Some of the panel lines i've inscribed look like they're a bit too deep and too wide, and i'll have to be more careful with the first few passes of the blade so it will make a straight line without deviating from the raised lines already on the kit, and also, be more paciente and do it slower...  :banghead:
I'm also going to start using the scribing templates i've bought last year, maybe not on this kit as it has raised lines to guide the blade but on future builds i will.

Here are my trenches, next to the Airfix Spitfire F Mk.22 sprue... :rolleyes:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSFJIZly.jpg&hash=ea6ae27e888ccdc4618ab95f4d95159bb9b554b9)
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: jalles on June 07, 2017, 12:54:33 PM
First off, I'm super excited to see what you do with this after your F/A-16W Block 70 (which was awesome).  :thumbsup:

Quote from: DogfighterZen on June 07, 2017, 06:03:19 AMI've never explored many options on panel lines cause i think they're way out of scale on all 1/72 and smaller scale kits

While that might be true, I think they look good.  I'm sure my panel lines are always too deep and wide, but I think they add interest.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 07, 2017, 04:10:08 PM
Quote from: jalles on June 07, 2017, 12:54:33 PM
First off, I'm super excited to see what you do with this after your F/A-16W Block 70 (which was awesome).  :thumbsup:

Quote from: DogfighterZen on June 07, 2017, 06:03:19 AMI've never explored many options on panel lines cause i think they're way out of scale on all 1/72 and smaller scale kits

While that might be true, I think they look good.  I'm sure my panel lines are always too deep and wide, but I think they add interest.

Thank you for the generous words and interest, my friend! :drink:
It will look different, i can guarantee that, but i know some will find it a crime... And i can understand that because i love the original layout but i've had this idea in mind for so long and i believe it will also look good so, i have to do it.
The panel line issue is not a big deal for me but the fact is that i  was motivated to learn how to scribe panel lines properly because of your Mig-37 and a few other builds i've seen, especially one of a stealth F-15, which is also an amazing build. https://goo.gl/images/LIlFHl
I also think they add interest to the model, even if they're out of scale, it really doesn't bother me much. I've built a a Matchbox J-29 Tunnan and a Kinetic twin seat Viper and the panel lines on the top fuse of the Viper are pretty much Matchbox-like, wider and softer than most of the lines i've scribed on this one.
I kept saying no to myself every time i thought of doing it, by fear of ruining a model, but now that i've had a bit of practice rescribing lines on other builds, it's time to bite the bullet!
That said, haven't done anything on the model today, been chilling out on the couch watching documentaries after a very hot, long and hard day's work after 2 weeks of vacation.  :rolleyes:
I'll try to do something tomorrow...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 25, 2017, 03:59:49 PM
Ok, back to work on this baby... here's how the panel lines came out on the top fuselage...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fxhs3y4M.jpg&hash=cb3a762003c1c17e058aded42d61caadbb57d0db)

Could be better but i think they're ok for a first go...
So today i finally got to work on fitting the lower 2D TVC nozzle parts...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fl5Z54eq.jpg&hash=ea9ed1694cdd1d67db73e868b559c321b4e770b7)

There will be some strip styrene going in those gaps but i think i got right spot...
:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: jsport on June 28, 2017, 05:54:36 PM
Beautiful just beautiful
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on June 30, 2017, 12:22:04 AM
Quote from: jsport on June 28, 2017, 05:54:36 PM
Beautiful just beautiful

Thanks! It's still like that, haven't done anything else, been very hard to find time and motivation these last few weeks because i'm so tired when i have the time to work on something... :banghead:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 05, 2017, 04:36:22 PM
After a couple of weeks with no modelling done, i tried to do some work on this today but didn't do anything besides looking at it...  :rolleyes:
Did find some issues i hadn't addressed before like the intakes... the kit provides parts to blank off the non-existing intake ducts but these are just too close to the front of the intakes and i decided to leave them out.
This means i'll have to come up with a way to make the S-shaped ducting and fan blades for both engines... the intakes also need work, i want them like they were on the real thing.
So, no work done but at least i know what i'll have to do next...whenever that happens... :banghead:

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 07, 2017, 03:52:50 PM
YAYAYA! Some progress has been made... :mellow:

Cut off the blanking plates' support line inside the intakes so i can make the ducting...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fq8Tj6Ou.jpg&hash=0522becbd26015fc54cec3da05eda683d1cd6d09)

And found the parts i needed, again as with the TVC nozzles, inside the DML YF-22 box, and this is what's going to happen... :wacko:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpfmxTIX.jpg&hash=987f1be045c92471e8cb6d758c60b2de91dc7520)

The horizontal stabs need some work to get them to the shape of the wings for planform alignment, but now i'm really getting the groove on for this thing... :thumbsup:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: ChernayaAkula on July 08, 2017, 06:31:37 AM
^ Love that layout! :wub:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 08, 2017, 08:06:00 AM
Quote from: ChernayaAkula on July 08, 2017, 06:31:37 AM
^ Love that layout! :wub:

Glad you like it, mate!  :thumbsup:
I've had this in mind for so long that i had to do it on my first build of this fighter. Ever since i saw the "Web of Secrecy" documentary, i've wondered how would it look like and perform, if the design was changed to be more maneuverable. I imagine that, if it was more agile, it would've been chosen instead of the Raptor.
Ok, now i'll start working on the intakes to get this ready to close up the fuselage.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 08, 2017, 10:36:28 AM
After a few minutes of consideration, i decided to go for it. Obviously, this is just phase one of the intake ducting work, i'll also need to build the engine fans and only then will i be able to finish it. Still, i can see how it will be done and doesn't seem too complicated.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZuUAhAd.jpg&hash=b85c1c92287740362e256335c5e29263e5e310bf)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 20, 2017, 04:16:06 PM
Ok, time for an update on this beast...

The work for the intakes didn't come out as well as i hoped for and it still needs work to get to the best they'll ever be.
Took a couple of wheels out the spares bag, no idea what those belonged to, glued a couple of sprue bits on the axle nut and rounded them a bit...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fq1GkZKu.jpg&hash=aaf59c37e9e9ebc7b3217a207d26a7ff83453192)

These are not to be the most accurate representation ever, just to give an idea of engine fans inside the intakes so i don't really care that much if it comes out a bit rough... :rolleyes:

Chose to go with several sections instead of a single bit of sheet styrene, don't ask me why... :banghead:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fo7EcQzs.jpg&hash=48018627164cb19c8e2dd0f793250b1b14717c5b)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fqj4IFuH.jpg&hash=5ab1a2380554283d444e71ba79d39ca1b7036456)

So, the insides will need some putty and sanding but it will be a light thing cause i know i won't be able to get them perfect, but still, i think it already looks better than just blanking plates about 1,5 cm behind the intake lip.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F28IvN4r.jpg&hash=a64793ad90ef9d56d7c2e3a57b319337ce86a053)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOzwXmCO.jpg&hash=0a2db84d9d0a37fe5a045d7f1224216e527fd5dc)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTkaAyup.jpg&hash=a0769c9ac038b1f91371c0d1b292158181d857cd)

I'm only going to do the PSR on the intakes after the fuselage is closed but first, i need to attach the lower nozzle petals on the bottom half of it.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 20, 2017, 04:34:30 PM
That looks complicated, but it is a very strange shaped aircraft of course, inside as well as outside.

MILES better looking than its plug-ugly competition though!
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 20, 2017, 04:57:20 PM
Thank you, kit! I'm hoping it will look a bit better after some PSR, let's see if i have the skill for that. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: sandiego89 on July 21, 2017, 12:16:34 PM
Great job on the intakes and "compressor" blades!  Nice. 
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 21, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
Glorious work!! I dig the ninja star. The wheels for fans... lol   Great idea!! 
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 21, 2017, 02:23:45 PM
Thanks, brothas! :thumbsup: I'm also going to reshape the intake lips to the shape of the real ones. This is one of the shape issues with almost all YF-23 kits ever produced, but it's an easy fix, compared to building the ducting.
Gonna work on the exhaust nozzles now...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: darthspud2 on July 22, 2017, 06:13:23 AM
nicely progressing build there. far better scratch-building than i can usually muster.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: su27rules on July 22, 2017, 09:00:50 AM
 :thumbsup: :mellow:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: darthspud2 on July 22, 2017, 06:13:23 AM
nicely progressing build there. far better scratch-building than i can usually muster.

Quote from: su27rules on July 22, 2017, 09:00:50 AM
:thumbsup: :mellow:

Thanks, guys! :thumbsup:
Slowly moving on, i've chosen to work on the nozzles after the fuselage is closed, that meant the cockpit had to be finished, so i painted the rest of the items left, applied the kit's decals on the side panels and instrument panel and glued it to the top fuse half.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FExW3D4U.jpg&hash=05faeef419e379ab2ee82eec21a0d77f4cec386e)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyEJrjRF.jpg&hash=7adb6ca543d5e8289ee35299c47a84691986b6e0)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FaeQKrmB.jpg&hash=dda763ca30e6f3786cf80d94a7c77e8e22579f3b)

So now, time to glue the fuselage halves together, to start PSR... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 03:02:53 PM
 :bow: :bow:

Them cockpit details look awesome!  Your Lil Homie looks so good....  what color(s) do you use for skin tone? I've tried a few things but yours looks so much better and closer to what I want.

I'll be bluntly honest... some of my pilots are black dudes simply because I can't seem to get my "white guy" colors right.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 03:02:53 PM
:bow: :bow:

Them cockpit details look awesome!  Your Lil Homie looks so good....  what color(s) do you use for skin tone? I've tried a few things but yours looks so much better and closer to what I want.

I'll be bluntly honest... some of my pilots are black dudes simply because I can't seem to get my "white guy" colors right.   ;D ;D ;D

:thumbsup: It's not brilliant but will do the trick with a closed canopy. ;D

Forgot to mention, the pilot came from a Revell US/NATO pilots set, the skin tone paint is a homemade mix, i still think it's too red but it's good enough for such small bits. I used, as always, Tamiya acrylics red, yellow and white, more red and white with a drop of yellow. I think i'll add a bit more white to tone down this mix.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 04:00:25 PM
Thanks!  My guys would normally look way too pale.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
 :thumbsup: Oh, the fuselage is already glued together... :wacko:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
:thumbsup: Oh, the fuselage is already glued together... :wacko:

He's a mad man!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 24, 2017, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
:thumbsup: Oh, the fuselage is already glued together... :wacko:

He's a mad man!!   ;D ;D


Like Iggy said: "Ooooh yeah, i'm a wild one...!" ;D

And after some preliminary undercarriage tests, i've found that i'll need to use the empty weapons bay for some permanent weight storage application... no problem cause i wasn't going to display it open anyway...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 24, 2017, 07:43:21 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on July 24, 2017, 12:36:56 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on July 23, 2017, 04:38:59 PM
:thumbsup: Oh, the fuselage is already glued together... :wacko:

He's a mad man!!   ;D ;D


Like Iggy said: "Ooooh yeah, i'm a wild one...!" ;D

And after some preliminary undercarriage tests, i've found that i'll need to use the empty weapons bay for some permanent weight storage application... no problem cause i wasn't going to display it open anyway...

:cheers:

Good deal. You know.. I wonder, ....  just how many people glue them shut but go on ahead and put the weapons in there anyway.   ;D

I  mean... people fully finish bomber interiors that are never seen after closed up so.... ..   :o ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 24, 2017, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on July 24, 2017, 07:43:21 AM
Good deal. You know.. I wonder, ....  just how many people glue them shut but go on ahead and put the weapons in there anyway.   ;D

I  mean... people fully finish bomber interiors that are never seen after closed up so.... ..   :o ;D

I've thought of that myself, cause when i got the Academy F-35, back in 2014, i thought i could build it with closed weapon bays and use the weapons on other builds so, i wondered how many would put weapons in there even with closed bays... :rolleyes:
That's why i bought more kits of this fighter, the F-22/-35, so i could do both open and closed bays builds.

Re the YF-23, working on the exhaust area right now...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvRIVKEf.jpg&hash=9ff309d91f0b13fcff7edba6b6e160dcaaec4c25)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on July 24, 2017, 06:55:03 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on July 23, 2017, 04:00:25 PM
Thanks!  My guys would normally look way too pale.

I have multiracial crews.
The standard "flesh" paint description seems to mean white northern european racial origin.
Tan is good for sub continentals.  Add a touch of yellow as you move east.  Add browns to move West.
Wooden Deck Tan is good for tanned white folks.  Add a touch of red if you want them to look like they've been in the sun too long.


Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 28, 2017, 04:39:41 PM
Well, after another week of hard work under the sun, i managed to do some work and this is the result...

Cut out the notches on the wingroots/fuselage for the stabilators and glued them in place...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMZo0Y2j.jpg&hash=856745a30efc885cf68a8b5e0de4caaeeadd86ac)

Then i checked and marked the spot for each tail and glued them on, too... had to get the canopy on for a quick look check... :wub:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWDjudET.jpg&hash=eefe03a4ce62be609d15c071d18d3248246780cb)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMymzXyn.jpg&hash=02a0e0ee6c68e1315c6068fff1801b3efe3a7287)

Now, PSR begins...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on July 28, 2017, 05:32:14 PM
These things always look to me like a giant kid trimmed the wings with a pair of scissors.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on July 28, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: zenrat on July 28, 2017, 05:32:14 PM

These things always look to me like a giant kid trimmed the wings with a pair of scissors.


All aircraft look like that to me, well, most of them anyway.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 29, 2017, 04:00:37 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 28, 2017, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: zenrat on July 28, 2017, 05:32:14 PM

These things always look to me like a giant kid trimmed the wings with a pair of scissors.


All aircraft look like that to me, well, most of them anyway.  ;D ;D ;D

I think all planes are created by big kids... ;D
Today i took another look at the model to see if the tails were really well aligned with the proper angles and had to reactivate the glue on the right tail to move it a couple of millimeters. It's hard to get the tails aligned cause there are no reference points or panel lines to help but now i think they're ok.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on July 29, 2017, 06:28:19 AM
If they are not quite aligned right then careful photo choice when showing us the beauty pics means we'll never know.
For example, the wings on my cut down Lancaster have slightly different dihedral on each side but you'd never know it looking at the pics I posted.   ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on July 29, 2017, 11:36:49 AM
Someone.... somewhere...   is rolling over in their grave over this. ^    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on July 30, 2017, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: zenrat on July 29, 2017, 06:28:19 AM
If they are not quite aligned right then careful photo choice when showing us the beauty pics means we'll never know.
For example, the wings on my cut down Lancaster have slightly different dihedral on each side but you'd never know it looking at the pics I posted.   ;D

;D
Quite a good trick for tail sitters on which you forgot to put weight in the nose, too...  :angel: :wacko: ;D
Gladly, this one won't be needing any of that, the tails are now firmly glued in the right positions and the weight issue has already been taken care of...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqoMbVNY.jpg&hash=88d6952339c77b932aea78d9e94346d040721733)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 03, 2017, 04:21:34 PM
Well, finally got something done, not much but it's a small step forward, now i can really get into PSR.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCZfIwJS.jpg&hash=5b9ef7238421360220016000ea7afceb8bfcaed6)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1Y1lEvo.jpg&hash=a5586d99ce351f48a9dfca35817cd3104921d46d)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3vTSuWl.jpg&hash=0123713aadb6929f6b2ca0d15f6299124cbc9f2b)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 04, 2017, 01:59:54 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on August 03, 2017, 04:21:34 PM

........ now i can really get into PSR.


And that's a GOOD thing?  :-\
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Dizzyfugu on August 04, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
PSR clears your kit, and your mind!  ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on August 04, 2017, 02:37:40 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 04, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
PSR clears your kit, and your mind!  ;D

But not your emphysema...
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 04, 2017, 05:55:38 AM
 
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 04, 2017, 01:59:54 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on August 03, 2017, 04:21:34 PM

........ now i can really get into PSR.


And that's a GOOD thing?  :-\

;D Doesn't have to be bad... Don't forget that you're talking to the fool who sculpted an F-16's DSI intake, and even tried to extend it's wings, with Tamiya grey putty... ;D

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 04, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
PSR clears your kit, and your mind!  ;D

Sure does, it's therapeutic, and i do find it rewarding when i finish a heavy duty PSR job and it looks ok, but obviously, i can find it boring at times.

Quote from: zenrat on August 04, 2017, 02:37:40 AM
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on August 04, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
PSR clears your kit, and your mind!  ;D

But not your emphysema...

No worries there, i use a mask for heavy sanding work, learned that before i got into modelling cause before i became a gardening singer ;D ,i worked at a couple of carpentry jobs and that got me aware of the quantity of dust flying around that we don't even know we're inhaling. :o

Anyway, it won't be a real heavy PSR job on this one, the tails will be easy, the stabilators will require the most work, the rest are the gaps from the kit's bad fit on the wings' underside and weapons bay doors which, hopefully, will be taken care of tonight.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 06, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
Reshaped the intakes and applied putty all over...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fx4jDIJh.jpg&hash=31f90b3a98e491029658ce2d7a26e9d3529d2fdd)

Also managed to spill a drink on my laptop and now there are a few letters that don't work... :banghead:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on August 06, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
Back in the old days when Mrs z and I worked in the same office she was IT Manager and SOP for a drink spill on a keyboard was to unplug it and rinse it out under a tap and then let it air dry.
IIRC the worst thing was hot drinks with sugar in as the sugar gummed up the works.
I wouldn't try rinsing out your laptop though.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 07, 2017, 03:21:15 AM
Quote from: zenrat on August 06, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
Back in the old days when Mrs z and I worked in the same office she was IT Manager and SOP for a drink spill on a keyboard was to unplug it and rinse it out under a tap and then let it air dry.
IIRC the worst thing was hot drinks with sugar in as the sugar gummed up the works.
I wouldn't try rinsing out your laptop though.


Probably wont be a good solution for me...  ;D It sucks, lost quite a few letters, have to get it fixed. Using the Windows mouse keyboard on the screen, takes forever to write anything. I'll have to reduce my comments to smileys till it's fixed. :banghead:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: zenrat on August 08, 2017, 03:47:36 AM
Can you borrow a USB keyboard from someone?  That'll work as an interim.  Plug it into on of the USB ports on your laptop and Robert is your father's brother.


Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 08, 2017, 05:28:55 AM
Quote from: zenrat on August 08, 2017, 03:47:36 AM
Can you borrow a USB keyboard from someone?  That'll work as an interim.  Plug it into on of the USB ports on your laptop and Robert is your father's brother.




Been thinking of that, this really sucks and will be a while before it's fixed! :banghead:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 08, 2017, 08:50:33 AM
Quote from: zenrat on August 08, 2017, 03:47:36 AM

Can you borrow a USB keyboard from someone?  That'll work as an interim.  Plug it into on of the USB ports on your laptop and Robert is your father's brother.


I do that with my laptop all the time, and USB keyboards are quite cheap, the Logitech one I use only costs £10-12.

You may have to go into the BIOS or somewhere else and disable he main keyboard though. Perhaps the 'Device Manager' on a Windoze PC?
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 13, 2017, 01:09:28 PM
Well, still haven't bought a usb keyboard and haven't done a lot but at least the first layer of putty has been applied on the YF-23 on every spot required, even inside the intakes. Just have to mentally prepare myself for the job. :rolleyes: ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 03:17:31 AM
But you like PSR so you'll do fine. I do too, some times, but sometimes it just pisses me off.  :angry: :angry: ;D ;D

Looking good!! Like the F-35, I've been trying to get ahold of one of these when I find a good one for the right price. Been getting inspired.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 14, 2017, 05:51:53 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 03:17:31 AM
But you like PSR so you'll do fine. I do too, some times, but sometimes it just pisses me off.  :angry: :angry: ;D ;D

Looking good!! Like the F-35, I've been trying to get ahold of one of these when I find a good one for the right price. Been getting inspired.

:thumbsup: It'll be ok. I have to admit i'm in a modern jets phase myself, thinking of starting an F-22 and another F-16... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 05:56:18 AM
 :lol:


Man, can't have too many F-16s but I'd like to see a Raptor built up.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Maybe do that one first.  ;D


As far as that goes... I think my entire time here at WIM I haven't seen anyone build one. . .  :unsure:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 05:56:18 AM

Man, can't have too many F-16s......


Oh yes you can, one would be too many for me! I really detest the spikey things!  :banghead:

But they make good donors for weird shaped bits for other models though.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 05:56:18 AM

Man, can't have too many F-16s......


Oh yes you can, one would be too many for me! I really detest the spikey things!  :banghead:

But they make good donors for weird shaped bits for other models though.  :thumbsup:


Spikey...     ;D ;D ;D     First time I heard that description.  I know I sure wouldn't want to step on a little metal (or even plastic! )toy one.  :o ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 14, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 05:56:18 AM

Man, can't have too many F-16s......


Oh yes you can, one would be too many for me! I really detest the spikey things!  :banghead:

But they make good donors for weird shaped bits for other models though.  :thumbsup:


Spikey...     ;D ;D ;D     First time I heard that description.  I know I sure wouldn't want to step on a little metal (or even plastic! )toy one.  :o ;D

;D I could have a room filled with Vipers and i'd still want more... :wacko:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on August 14, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 05:56:18 AM

Man, can't have too many F-16s......


Oh yes you can, one would be too many for me! I really detest the spikey things!  :banghead:

But they make good donors for weird shaped bits for other models though.  :thumbsup:


Spikey...     ;D ;D ;D     First time I heard that description.  I know I sure wouldn't want to step on a little metal (or even plastic! )toy one.  :o ;D

;D I could have a room filled with Vipers and i'd still want more... :wacko:

That's fine by me, you can have any that come my way by accident.  ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 11:02:05 AM
 ;D ;D ;D

I love 'em. I already have like... Oh I dunno... in my meager stash probably 5-6 yet IDEAS for them outnumber that by a bit. . . .but point being, I have enough to last me a good while but I still be on the look out for more.  :wacko: :wacko:   Price is right, I'm going to snap 'em up.  ;D

Some plans include:

US Army F-16 (modern day... as if it were painted like a piece of armor or some generic transport. "US ARMY"  On it.....  single color green.... white star....   

US Army F-16: Pre-war colors.... glorious blue and yellow, red and white fin flash and the wagon wheel roundels.

WWII Era Blue Nose Mustang F-16. . . ..   NMF and all the coloring and decals from a Blue Nose P 51  (will turn around and slap the F-16 stuff on the Mustang and make it the two color grey)

Then a whole SLEW of 'em done "how they're supposed to be." Various test planes and prototypes and the like. Some of the neat stuff like the US Navy ones.


etc.

EDIT: Oh and then there are the loosely associated cousins like F-2A and the Korean trainer plane that looks like one, etc. 
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: ChernayaAkula on August 14, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on August 14, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
<...> ;D I could have a room filled with Vipers and i'd still want more... :wacko:

Good man!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 15, 2017, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on August 14, 2017, 10:29:42 AM
That's fine by me, you can have any that come my way by accident.  ;D

;D :thumbsup:

Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 11:02:05 AM
;D ;D ;D

I love 'em. I already have like... Oh I dunno... in my meager stash probably 5-6 yet IDEAS for them outnumber that by a bit. . . .but point being, I have enough to last me a good while but I still be on the look out for more.  :wacko: :wacko:   Price is right, I'm going to snap 'em up.  ;D

Some plans include:

US Army F-16 (modern day... as if it were painted like a piece of armor or some generic transport. "US ARMY"  On it.....  single color green.... white star....   

US Army F-16: Pre-war colors.... glorious blue and yellow, red and white fin flash and the wagon wheel roundels.

WWII Era Blue Nose Mustang F-16. . . ..   NMF and all the coloring and decals from a Blue Nose P 51  (will turn around and slap the F-16 stuff on the Mustang and make it the two color grey)

Then a whole SLEW of 'em done "how they're supposed to be." Various test planes and prototypes and the like. Some of the neat stuff like the US Navy ones.


etc.

EDIT: Oh and then there are the loosely associated cousins like F-2A and the Korean trainer plane that looks like one, etc. 

Interesting ideas there, i've got a few ideas but still trying to decide between a real one or whif...  :rolleyes:
Re the YF-23, i'm starting the sanding today...
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on August 15, 2017, 09:05:49 AM
Quote from: ChernayaAkula on August 14, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on August 14, 2017, 10:10:36 AM
<...> ;D I could have a room filled with Vipers and i'd still want more... :wacko:

Good man!  :thumbsup:

:drink:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Snowtrooper on August 15, 2017, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 11:02:05 AM
;D ;D ;D

I love 'em. I already have like... Oh I dunno... in my meager stash probably 5-6 yet IDEAS for them outnumber that by a bit. . . .but point being, I have enough to last me a good while but I still be on the look out for more.  :wacko: :wacko:   Price is right, I'm going to snap 'em up.  ;D

Some plans include:

US Army F-16 (modern day... as if it were painted like a piece of armor or some generic transport. "US ARMY"  On it.....  single color green.... white star....   

US Army F-16: Pre-war colors.... glorious blue and yellow, red and white fin flash and the wagon wheel roundels.

WWII Era Blue Nose Mustang F-16. . . ..   NMF and all the coloring and decals from a Blue Nose P 51  (will turn around and slap the F-16 stuff on the Mustang and make it the two color grey)

Then a whole SLEW of 'em done "how they're supposed to be." Various test planes and prototypes and the like. Some of the neat stuff like the US Navy ones.

etc.

EDIT: Oh and then there are the loosely associated cousins like F-2A and the Korean trainer plane that looks like one, etc.
Vipers in my plans, with most of the kits already in The Stash, but the problem, as always is getting anything finished, or rather, even started:
A-16A Prairie Falcon (European One camo, GPU-5 centreline pod)
F-16E Gyrfalcon (aka XL) in USAFE markings
F-16EI Gyrfalcon in Israeli markings with CFT's and Israeli ordnance and extra lumps and bumps around the nose
F-16V (going to use a D Block 52+) in VPAF markings and "snake" scheme, loaded with cluster bombs in case "a" northern neighbour decides to roll tanks across the border (less whiffy than you think, IIRC Vietnam has been offered a deal where early-block C airframes from the Boneyard would be free, only the refurbishing and upgrades to modern standards would cost, and Lockheed is at least in advertising materials calling future refits of previous Vipers "F-16V")
F-16A ROCAF, in SEA scheme with older weaponry like M117 iron bombs, LAU rocket pods, Vietnam-era ECM and early 'Winders, suppose these were sold in late 70's/early 80's
F-16A AdA with French ordnance (from the Heller weapons set), suppose Mirage 2000 was delayed indefinitely until cancelled in favour of Rafale, and F-16's were purchased as an interim measure
"Diana Collection": Various Dianas of 312 Squadron KLu, "Dirty" Yellow 50th anniversary F-16A, "Dirty" Blue 50th anniversary F-16A, 60th anniversary "Summer" F-16B, 60th anniversary "Winter" F-16A MLU, 65th anniversary F-16A MLU. One option I've been thinking of is actually putting the 60th anniversary ones on a F-15 instead, since twin fins allow for two versions of tail art and would require one less F-16 ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on August 16, 2017, 03:35:28 AM
Well alright!!  Sounds good.. I really like the sounds of the Vietnam stuff and the anniversary stuff sounds cool because those types are always nicely decorated.

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Charlie_c67 on August 16, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: Snowtrooper on August 15, 2017, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on August 14, 2017, 11:02:05 AM
;D ;D ;D

I love 'em. I already have like... Oh I dunno... in my meager stash probably 5-6 yet IDEAS for them outnumber that by a bit. . . .but point being, I have enough to last me a good while but I still be on the look out for more.  :wacko: :wacko:   Price is right, I'm going to snap 'em up.  ;D

Some plans include:

US Army F-16 (modern day... as if it were painted like a piece of armor or some generic transport. "US ARMY"  On it.....  single color green.... white star....   

US Army F-16: Pre-war colors.... glorious blue and yellow, red and white fin flash and the wagon wheel roundels.

WWII Era Blue Nose Mustang F-16. . . ..   NMF and all the coloring and decals from a Blue Nose P 51  (will turn around and slap the F-16 stuff on the Mustang and make it the two color grey)

Then a whole SLEW of 'em done "how they're supposed to be." Various test planes and prototypes and the like. Some of the neat stuff like the US Navy ones.

etc.

EDIT: Oh and then there are the loosely associated cousins like F-2A and the Korean trainer plane that looks like one, etc.
Vipers in my plans, with most of the kits already in The Stash, but the problem, as always is getting anything finished, or rather, even started:
A-16A Prairie Falcon (European One camo, GPU-5 centreline pod)
F-16E Gyrfalcon (aka XL) in USAFE markings
F-16EI Gyrfalcon in Israeli markings with CFT's and Israeli ordnance and extra lumps and bumps around the nose
F-16V (going to use a D Block 52+) in VPAF markings and "snake" scheme, loaded with cluster bombs in case "a" northern neighbour decides to roll tanks across the border (less whiffy than you think, IIRC Vietnam has been offered a deal where early-block C airframes from the Boneyard would be free, only the refurbishing and upgrades to modern standards would cost, and Lockheed is at least in advertising materials calling future refits of previous Vipers "F-16V")
F-16A ROCAF, in SEA scheme with older weaponry like M117 iron bombs, LAU rocket pods, Vietnam-era ECM and early 'Winders, suppose these were sold in late 70's/early 80's
F-16A AdA with French ordnance (from the Heller weapons set), suppose Mirage 2000 was delayed indefinitely until cancelled in favour of Rafale, and F-16's were purchased as an interim measure
"Diana Collection": Various Dianas of 312 Squadron KLu, "Dirty" Yellow 50th anniversary F-16A, "Dirty" Blue 50th anniversary F-16A, 60th anniversary "Summer" F-16B, 60th anniversary "Winter" F-16A MLU, 65th anniversary F-16A MLU. One option I've been thinking of is actually putting the 60th anniversary ones on a F-15 instead, since twin fins allow for two versions of tail art and would require one less F-16 ;D

Meanwhile I've got the British/Commonwealth branch to work on ;)
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 24, 2017, 02:45:43 AM
Ok, had to wait for my vacation to get this build going again... PSR is almost over... all the putty, which wasn't that much in quantity, has been sanded off. This model is taking up quite a few hours just to get it all smooth... still, some areas will be a bit rough anyway but nothing too bad, i hope.
The cockpit is finished and the windscreen is glued on as is the HUD on top of the instrument panel, just gave it a bit of XF-69 nato black on the sides to represent the HUD's framing structure.
The windscreen had a good fit but left a small step to the fuselage around it...

(https://i.imgur.com/TvEelGv.jpg)

I thought it would look better with no step and as i wanted to make the tip of the radome a bit sharper, i glue the windscreen on and sanded the whole nose section smooth...

(https://i.imgur.com/rMGpbu9.jpg)

I've started adding the last mods before painting, just a few heat reduction plates around the lower nozzle paddles to integrate them a bit more into the fuselage...

(https://i.imgur.com/9U6lDcC.jpg)

Still some work to do but it's going in the right direction now. Let's see if i can get it finished before i finish my vacation...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 24, 2017, 04:53:41 PM
Finished the exhaust's heat reduction plates, just some light sanding after the glue dries and it's ready for paint!

(https://i.imgur.com/rQc9ux2.jpg)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 24, 2017, 05:05:00 PM
Damn, dude!! Those turned out really well.  :o

Just cutting the stuff, with the thin part, had to have been a bit maddening.  ;D

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: jalles on October 24, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on October 24, 2017, 05:05:00 PM
Damn, dude!! Those turned out really well.  :o

I agree, that's looking excellent.  I'll probably say this a few more times before you're done, but I can't wait to see this finished.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 24, 2017, 11:31:29 PM
Thanks, guys. Glad to know you like the work. :thumbsup:
It's 7.30AM and i'm already sitting at the bench... gotta love vacation... :mellow:

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 24, 2017, 11:53:29 PM
Nice!!!  Get after it!!

It's just shy of 2AM here. I've been polishin a TURD for hours. I'm just now putting it up.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 25, 2017, 04:44:40 AM
Building is finished!!  :thumbsup:  Painting begins after lunch...
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 25, 2017, 03:43:25 PM
Ok, didn't start painting right after lunch but it's been primed and covered with a layer of XF-24. The scheme is the simplest thing of the build, as it's a what-if PAV1 Grey ghost, it's a one color paint job. No weathering will be done, i want this one clean, like it was on roll out and maybe i'll try some camo or something on another build of this jet...
So yes, another boring dark grey jet in my display but i'm a monochromatic kind of guy so, i just love it... :wub:

(https://i.imgur.com/9t2gPmW.jpg)

The grey looks much lighter in the pic than it is in reality, and it will be even darker after the gloss coat goes on, which is what i want. :thumbsup:
Next will be masking and painting of the exhausts and landing gear parts and bays. No plans for tomorrow other than modelling so i wanna do as much as can on this one.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 27, 2017, 12:35:08 PM
Changed my mind about the real world scheme... and i'm very glad i did! :wub:

(https://i.imgur.com/WyFchl0.jpg)

May not look like it but that was some of the hardest masking jobs i've done. All the curves were hard cause the tape kept sticking to the wrong place and made it difficult to keep a straight line... not perfect but it came out better than i expected.

(https://i.imgur.com/dUoIewN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LBDDNAJ.jpg)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 27, 2017, 01:27:41 PM
That's already looking smart, when it's done it'll be terrific.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 27, 2017, 02:53:56 PM
Glad you like it, kit! :thumbsup:
It's getting a second gloss coat to protect the paint a bit more, before masking the vents/grills and exhausts area for the metal colors. Think i'm having a late night modelling session tonight, might get those bits done if i do.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: jalles on October 27, 2017, 03:49:30 PM
I wasn't expecting that, but man it looks sweet  :thumbsup:

Between this build and the B.1 Black Widow I'm itching to build a F-23, too bad 1/72 ones are so pricey  :angry:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 27, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
Thanks, jalles! :thumbsup:
I have plans to build the F-23A, but it involves a LOT of surgery on the Italeri kit... :banghead: The fuselage has to be extended behind the cockpit to make room for the Sidewinder bay in front of the main weapons bay, which also has to be moved further back in the fuselage.
The nose also needs to be enlarged for the radar and the intakes need to be reshaped.
Considering what i've done to this kit, and that i'm much more comfortable with my modelling skills, i think i can pull it off, but it will take quite a while... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: jalles on October 27, 2017, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on October 27, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
I have plans to build the F-23A, but it involves a LOT of surgery on the Italeri kit...

Yeah, I've thought about the same thing.  I can't decide if it would be easier to just scratch build it or start from the YF-23 kit.  Once you start looking at it, pretty much everything is different.  Even the engine nacelles are shaped considerably different, canted in, and closer together.  Regardless, I'm sure if you made it, it would be fantastic.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on October 27, 2017, 10:15:52 PM
Looking good.  :thumbsup:


Ian.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 28, 2017, 02:54:35 AM
Quote from: jalles on October 27, 2017, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on October 27, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
I have plans to build the F-23A, but it involves a LOT of surgery on the Italeri kit...

Yeah, I've thought about the same thing.  I can't decide if it would be easier to just scratch build it or start from the YF-23 kit.  Once you start looking at it, pretty much everything is different.  Even the engine nacelles are shaped considerably different, canted in, and closer together.  Regardless, I'm sure if you made it, it would be fantastic.

Indeed, from the pics of the RCS test mockup, the F-23A would've been very different on most aspects, reshaping the engine nacelles will probably be the hardest modification that has to be done to the Italeri ki, but i don't imagine it to be easier to scratchbuild it. I think that using the Italeri kit it is possible, but only a modeller with skills superior to mine could do a flawless job, i'll be happy if i can get it to look similar and with a half decent finish. ;D :thumbsup:

Quote from: Ian the Kiwi Herder on October 27, 2017, 10:15:52 PM
Looking good.  :thumbsup:


Ian.


Glad you like it, Ian. :thumbsup:

Well, i was supposed to have a late night modelling session last night but that didn't go as planned so i'm masking the exhausts now... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 28, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Well, nozzles and all the rest of the details are painted, all that's left to paint are the landing gear bits and bays.

(https://i.imgur.com/5rrXU4Y.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vxINjhz.jpg)

The edges of the exhaust areas on the topside need some touching up cause some bits of paint came off with the masking tape but nothing too serious, but it's still annoying... :banghead:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 28, 2017, 01:18:44 PM
I hate when paint comes off with the tape... it's like... WHATS THE POINT OF THE TAPE THEN?!?!?!??!  :angry: :angry: :angry: ;D ;D

OH WELL, win some, lose some, but you live to paint another day!   ;D   

Paint work looks very good, though....  specially on the bottom sides of the exhaust stuff.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 28, 2017, 03:38:13 PM
All landing gear bits and bays were painted and to compensate for the nozzles, the gear bays masking was a success, no paint bleeding through and the tape didn't lift any paint off... This means, i'm on to decalling, which, for a change, will only be of around 30 decals. :mellow:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 28, 2017, 03:47:32 PM
GO MAN GO!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: chrisonord on October 28, 2017, 04:01:25 PM
Liking what you have done with this, a favorite of mine too :thumbsup:
Chris
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: Old Wombat on October 28, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
Neat scheme! Like it! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 28, 2017, 08:25:28 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on October 28, 2017, 04:01:25 PM
Liking what you have done with this, a favorite of mine too :thumbsup:
Chris

Quote from: Old Wombat on October 28, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
Neat scheme! Like it! :thumbsup:

Glad you like it, gents. :thumbsup:
So, i'd forgotten about a small detail that, IMHO, makes a big difference... the Black Widow's hourglass... at first i thought of masking and painting and looking back on it now, it probably would've been easier than what i ended up doing which was to dig up some suiting decals out of the spare decals bag and cut it up accordingly... took me a while but i got it done, here it is, with Vallejo's decal solvent solution still drying... :rolleyes:

(https://i.imgur.com/rGZAXli.jpg)

Came out good a bit big but i think it's good enough so i'll move on cause the rest of the decals are from the kit so should be simple.
Almost 3.30 in the morning so i'm calling it a night and leave the rest for tomorrow...

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: TheChronicOne on October 28, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
THAT is a good touch of class...   don't let the 'Brass' see it!!! 

The hour glass is one of my favorite parts of the original.  :wub: :wub:  Glad to to see it here.   :bow:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 28, 2017, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on October 28, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
THAT is a good touch of class...   don't let the 'Brass' see it!!! 

The hour glass is one of my favorite parts of the original.  :wub: :wub:  Glad to to see it here.   :bow:

Had to do it, even this being a whif, it just didn't feel right if that wasn't there, isn't it? :thumbsup:
Now i know how i can do it when i build a real world version, but then again, i'll probably buy the Caracal sheet for that and that already has an accurate decal of the hourglass so i won't have to worry about this bit.

Hasta la pasta, bacani... :mellow:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 01:32:02 AM
I was stupid enough to Google 'black widow hourglass'  and was buried in pics of lethal looking spiders!  :banghead:

Did the real YF-23 have an 'hourglass' marking on its belly?
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 29, 2017, 02:28:27 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 01:32:02 AM
I was stupid enough to Google 'black widow hourglass'  and was buried in pics of lethal looking spiders!  :banghead:

;D

Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 01:32:02 AM
Did the real YF-23 have an 'hourglass' marking on its belly?

It had it during the first weeks after the roll out and first flight, then Time Aviation Week magazine published an article on the YF-23 and on the cover of the issue was this pic...

(https://i.imgur.com/qT1PZ2K.jpg)

Air Force Generals had it removed as soon as they saw that cover... :banghead:
A good documentary of the YF-23's side on the ATF competition - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYLiMYGBE2Q

Ok, ready for the rest of the decals... :thumbsup:

EDIT: Just noticed that i wrote that the pic was shown on Time magazine but it was on Aviation week magazine, don't know where i got the Time from... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 03:31:45 AM
That's brilliant, trust Northrop for an 'off the wall' idea, and trust the USAF hierarchy to ban it too, a mirthless bunch of characters.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 29, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 03:31:45 AM
That's brilliant, trust Northrop for an 'off the wall' idea, and trust the USAF hierarchy to ban it too, a mirthless bunch of characters.

I'm taking my bit of revenge on the USAF on this build, i did not include the US AIR FORCE that was supposed to go on top of the engine nacelles.
The Raptor didn't have that written on it anywhere so this one doesn't need it...  ;D

So, today was a good modelling day, got some things done, including putting on the last decals, painting last details on the airframe, finished painting the wheels, and to finish things off, a good gloss coat over everything and left it to dry.
Tomorrow i'll give some parts a panel line wash, maybe not on the whole fuselage cause i don't want this bird looking too weathered.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 31, 2017, 09:14:43 AM
It's almost finished... just turned on the compressor to give this thing a matte coat and after that, canopy masks will be removed for the beauty pics. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: scooter on October 31, 2017, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 29, 2017, 03:31:45 AM
That's brilliant, trust Northrop for an 'off the wall' idea, and trust the USAF hierarchy to ban it too, a mirthless bunch of characters.

Agreed, Kit.  Also trust them *to* pick a LM product...  :banghead:

And, I really need to update this-
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/0662/f/2015/096/2/7/ng_bw_2_by_scooternjng-d8onfir.png)
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: PR19_Kit on October 31, 2017, 12:29:24 PM
She'd make an even better 'icon' for the underside of an F-23 or derivative.  ;) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 31, 2017, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on October 31, 2017, 12:29:24 PM
She'd make an even better 'icon' for the underside of an F-23 or derivative.  ;) :thumbsup:

She sure would... Very sexy widow indeed! :mellow:

Well, this Black widow is finished, just going out for dinner and might take a pic or two later on as a teaser, cause i wanna see if i can get the beauty pics taken outdoors with sunlight.
I can say i'm very happy with the results, although it's obviously not a perfect job, i think it looks good, just a bit different, and i'm happy that i didn't ruin the original lines of the YF-23, of which i've always been a fan of. :thumbsup:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on October 31, 2017, 03:31:51 PM
Ok, quick pic for now, tomorrow i'll just polish the canopy and snap some beauty pics under sunlight, bang up a back story and i'll put her on here... So, here she is...   :wacko:

(https://i.imgur.com/fhqzPhA.jpg)

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 03:20:29 PM
"The Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) was a demonstration and validation program undertaken by the United States Air Force to develop a next-generation air superiority fighter to counter emerging worldwide threats, including Soviet Sukhoi Su-27 and Mikoyan MiG-29 fighters under development in the 1980s.
In 1981, USAF began forming requirements for a new air superiority fighter intended to replace the capability of the F-15 Eagle. In June 1981 a request for information (RFI) for the Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) was published by the Air Force. Design concepts were provided by defense contractors. The common areas among the concepts were Stealth, STOL and supercruise. It was envisioned that the ATF would incorporate emerging technologies including advanced alloys and composite material, advanced fly-by-wire flight control systems, higher power propulsion systems, and low-observable, or stealth technology.
In September 1983, study contracts were awarded to seven airframe manufacturers for further definition of their designs. By late 1984, ATF requirements had settled on a fighter with a maximum takeoff weight of 50,000 pounds (23,000 kg), a mission radius of 800 miles (1,300 km), supercruise speed of Mach 1.4-1.5 and the ability to use a 2,000 feet (610 m) runway.[6] A request for proposals (RFP) for the fighter's engine, called the Joint Advanced Fighter Engine (JAFE), was released in May 1983. Pratt & Whitney and General Electric received contracts for the development and production of prototype engines in September 1983.

(https://i.imgur.com/snQhduw.jpg)

A request for proposals (RFP) for the fighter was issued in September 1985. In May 1986, the Air Force changed the RFP so that final selection would involve flying prototypes. In July 1986, proposals were provided by Boeing, General Dynamics, Lockheed, Northrop, and McDonnell Douglas.
Two contractors, Lockheed and Northrop were selected in October 1986 to undertake a 50-month demonstration/validation phase, culminating in the flight test of two technology demonstrator prototypes, the YF-22 and the YF-23. Under terms of agreements between Lockheed, General Dynamics, and Boeing, the companies agreed to participate in the development jointly if only one company's design was selected. Northrop and McDonnell Douglas had a similar agreement.
Because of the added weight for thrust vectoring/reversing nozzles and related systems on the F-15 S/MTD research aircraft, the Air Force changed the runway length requirement to 3,000 feet (910 m) and removed the thrust reversers on the ATF in late 1987. Two examples of each prototype were built for the Demonstration-Validation phase: one with General Electric YF120 engines, the other with Pratt & Whitney YF119 engines. The first YF-23 made its maiden flight on 27 August 1990 and the first YF-22 first flew on 29 September 1990.

(https://i.imgur.com/dfcIctz.jpg)

Flight testing began afterwards and the second aircraft for each competitor was to be ready in late October 1990, but after some early development problems, the GE engines would only be ready 6 months later.
Worried by less than satisfactory data concerning the agility of the first prototype, Northrop engineers were convinced that it wasn't good enough so, after meeting with their team, Northrop's program manager Steve Smith and chief engineer/designer Bob Sandusky knew they had at least an extra 6 months so they proposed a last minute design change from the V tail to a 4 Poster configuration aided by 2D thrust vectoring nozzles like the YF-22 had, for the added maneuverability. Authorized by CEO Tom Jones, the second prototype would be finished with the new 4 Poster tail design in December, 1990, only having it's GE engines installed in April 1991, making it's first flight on the 12th.

(https://i.imgur.com/5BugAX4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zaf3TkU.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yYS12Pm.jpg)

The first YF-23  with P&W engines(PAV-1), supercruised at Mach 1.43 on 18 September 1990 and the second YF-23 with GE engines(PAV-2), reached Mach 1.6 on 29 April 1991. The YF-22 with GE engines achieved Mach 1.58 in supercruise. Flight testing continued until August 1991.
The maneuverability of PAV-2 was totally superior to PAV-1, which would be comparable to an F-15.

(https://i.imgur.com/36NkO2t.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7tl65lc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/3ngWDOz.jpg)

The TVC nozzles gave the plane a much tighter and sustained turning radius in a combat scenario, so much so that PAV-1 was rapidly relegated to systems testing, leaving all performance flight testing to be done by PAV-2, which had the now final EMD proposed design.

(https://i.imgur.com/84qqVZN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FAo2mpt.jpg)

Following flight testing, the contractor teams submitted their EMD proposals for ATF production.

(https://i.imgur.com/p360kh3.jpg)

Following a review of the flight test results and proposals, the Air Force announced the Lockheed YF-22 with Pratt & Whitney engines as the competition winner on 23 April 1991. The YF-23 design was considered stealthier and faster, but, even with the design change to improve this aspect, the YF-22 was still more agile and furthermore, had a projected greater weapons load capacity in it's weapons bays.

(https://i.imgur.com/ph2OvUe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MJUvZex.jpg)

The Lockheed team was awarded the contract to develop and build the Advanced Tactical Fighter in August 1991. The YF-22 was modified into the production F-22 Raptor version. The Northrop YF-23 design was later considered by the company for modification as a bomber, but the proposals have not come to fruition."

So, i have my first Black Widow on the shelf and i'm very happy with how it came out. The scheme looks simple but different and i like it a lot, i think the TVC nozzles worked well, the tails were a simple affair and while they change the looks quite a bit, i don't think it changed so much that it lost the original lines, and that was something i wanted to maintain from the original design.
Although i couldn't get any decent pics of the intakes, those came out better than i expected. These are the best pics i could get, the angle makes it hard to get light all the way in...

(https://i.imgur.com/chGtIXB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lA9JZvM.jpg)

And an extra pic to finish off...  :wub:

(https://i.imgur.com/CVJa5L3.jpg)

I just love the look of this bird and i've got plans for all the kits i have, including a real world PAV-1, an EMD F-23A and maybe a twin seat variant, but that will be sometime in the not-so-near future cause i've got enough builds to finish... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 01, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
Ah hell, that turned out REALLY nice!  :mellow: :mellow: :mellow:

Looks sexy!  :wub: :wub:  The extra touches like the nozzle work and the verbotten hour glass are great and the black makes it all come together.. I mean..... BLACK on a BLACK widow. Who woulda thought?!?!?!?!  :o ;D

I imagine this will be but the first of many but having said that, congrats!! Building a first of a type is always pretty exciting especially when it's a subject you really like.  :laugh: :laugh:

YF-24 Brown Recluse next?  ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: nighthunter on November 01, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
That thing is 1/72!?!? Now I know I'll need to get the 1/144 version
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: Captain Canada on November 01, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
Nice job ! She is a big old bird eh ? In that last pic, with you holding her, she looks like a Hornet on stealthy steroids !
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: jalles on November 01, 2017, 05:13:18 PM
WOW!  That's brilliant  :thumbsup: 

I love how the TVC nozzles turned out.  So many great ideas here, really inspirational work.  I'm off to ebay to look for a 1/72 YF-23.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: seadude on November 01, 2017, 05:21:22 PM
Excellent model. I like it a lot!  :thumbsup:

I remember reading long ago about how the Air Force wanted that hourglass symbol removed from the bottom of the aircraft........and FAST! They made a big ruckuss about it.  :o  At the time, it kinda made me think that maybe there was another secret aircraft named the Black Widow and Northrop accidentally used the name without realising it.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: Old Wombat on November 01, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
That's the duck's nuts, mate! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on November 01, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
Ah hell, that turned out REALLY nice!  :mellow: :mellow: :mellow:

Looks sexy!  :wub: :wub:  The extra touches like the nozzle work and the verbotten hour glass are great and the black makes it all come together.. I mean..... BLACK on a BLACK widow. Who woulda thought?!?!?!?!  :o ;D

I imagine this will be but the first of many but having said that, congrats!! Building a first of a type is always pretty exciting especially when it's a subject you really like.  :laugh: :laugh:

YF-24 Brown Recluse next?  ;D

I was thinking more of Tarantula...  :wacko:
Glad you like the arachnid, my friend!  Yes, it is pretty cool to have one of my favorite birds finished and especially when i'm happy with the result. This was the first of 4 kits i was lucky to have the chance to buy. Still have 2 of the Italeri mold and the DML/Dragon kit, which is horrendously inaccurate but because of that, it's a perfect base for a whif.

Quote from: nighthunter on November 01, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
That thing is 1/72!?!? Now I know I'll need to get the 1/144 version

It is a big beast for a 1/72 model, twice the size of a Folland Gnat. ;D

Quote from: Captain Canada on November 01, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
Nice job ! She is a big old bird eh ? In that last pic, with you holding her, she looks like a Hornet on stealthy steroids !

Thank you, Captain! :drink:
She sure is a big one... i can see where you get the Hornet similarity, it is a Northrop product so it does seem logical that they'd keep some of their designs' traits, and i think the scheme is also contributing for that.

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2017, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 05:49:40 PM

It is a big beast for a 1/72 model, twice the size of a Folland Gnat. ;D


Almost everything is twice the size od a Gnat.  ;D

What's inaccurate about the Dragon kit?

I've got an Italeri F-23 but I don't think I've ever opened the box, and I think I should do now I've seen what you made of yours. It's a wonderful shape, SO much better than the Lockheed thing!
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: jalles on November 01, 2017, 05:13:18 PM
WOW!  That's brilliant  :thumbsup: 

I love how the TVC nozzles turned out.  So many great ideas here, really inspirational work.  I'm off to ebay to look for a 1/72 YF-23.

Thank you, my friend, glad you like it! :thumbsup:
That's a hard kit to find at a good price but they do come up once in a while on ebay, it took me a while to find the ones i bought but i had to take a look almost everyday. Still, i wish you the best of luck, it's a nice model of a beautiful aircraft.

Quote from: seadude on November 01, 2017, 05:21:22 PM
Excellent model. I like it a lot!  :thumbsup:

I remember reading long ago about how the Air Force wanted that hourglass symbol removed from the bottom of the aircraft........and FAST! They made a big ruckuss about it.  :o  At the time, it kinda made me think that maybe there was another secret aircraft named the Black Widow and Northrop accidentally used the name without realising it.

Glad you like it, mate, thank you! :thumbsup:
Check out the documentary, whole story told by the folks who designed, built and flew it. But you do have point there, they don't explain why it had to be removed, they just say that air force generals wanted it removed as soon as they saw it... :unsure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYLiMYGBE2Q

Quote from: Old Wombat on November 01, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
That's the duck's nuts, mate! :thumbsup:

Guess that's a good thing, right? ;D Thanks, mate, glad you like it. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: seadude on November 01, 2017, 06:20:08 PM
I also have a YF-23 in the stash. It's the newer Hobbyboss 1/48 scale aircraft. I'll probably paint mine in some sort of Ace Combat scheme whenever I get around to it. Only thing I don't like about the kit is no open weapons bay.  :banghead:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 01, 2017, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 05:49:40 PM

It is a big beast for a 1/72 model, twice the size of a Folland Gnat. ;D


Almost everything is twice the size od a Gnat.  ;D

What's inaccurate about the Dragon kit?

I've got an Italeri F-23 but I don't think I've ever opened the box, and I think I should do now I've seen what you made of yours. It's a wonderful shape, SO much better than the Lockheed thing!

The kit is badly misshapen, intakes are too shallow and wrong shape, fuselage hump behind the canopy has a different shape, the engine area is very crude as is most of the detail... the canopy has a wrong shape, there's a slight raised area behind the canopy that does not exist on the real thing... it's considered a toy by the folks at YF-23.net. ;D
I think it can be turned into something very interesting, if you don't plan on building the real one, that is.
And yes, i think you should build it, too. Can't say it enough, it's such a beautiful thing! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 01, 2017, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: seadude on November 01, 2017, 06:20:08 PM
I also have a YF-23 in the stash. It's the newer Hobbyboss 1/48 scale aircraft. I'll probably paint mine in some sort of Ace Combat scheme whenever I get around to it. Only thing I don't like about the kit is no open weapons bay.  :banghead:

That kit also has inaccurate intake shape but it does look like a nice kit. I'd like to build one with open weapons bay,(which would have to be scratchbuilt) but i still have to buy the kit first... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: Old Wombat on November 01, 2017, 07:01:58 PM
No-one does an aftermarket upgrade set for the weapons bay? :unsure:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 02, 2017, 12:54:41 AM
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 01, 2017, 07:01:58 PM
No-one does an aftermarket upgrade set for the weapons bay? :unsure:

AFAIK, the only aftermarket product you can get for a YF-23 in any scale, are probably only some resin ejection seats and wheels and white metal landing gear.
Other than that, i'm not aware of any weapons bay or other replacement parts... would be nice in 1/48 cause there's no 1/72 kit currently in production.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: Snowtrooper on November 02, 2017, 02:07:02 AM
The black spine and fins suit her really well - not the least because they invoke images of the hi-viz scheme of VF-84 Jolly Rogers :thumbsup:

Good thing that I already have two Italeri Black Widows in the stash, I can see that they will become rather scarce and expensive in the near future due to this build... ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: zenrat on November 02, 2017, 02:44:23 AM
Not my cup of tea but an excellent build.
Well done DFZ.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 02, 2017, 03:57:16 AM
Quote from: Snowtrooper on November 02, 2017, 02:07:02 AM
The black spine and fins suit her really well - not the least because they invoke images of the hi-viz scheme of VF-84 Jolly Rogers :thumbsup:

Good thing that I already have two Italeri Black Widows in the stash, I can see that they will become rather scarce and expensive in the near future due to this build... ;D

Yes, the Jolly Rogers scheme was my inspiration, one of my favorites. :thumbsup:
These Italeri kits are already too expensive, some on ebay now are going for over £60/70...

Quote from: zenrat on November 02, 2017, 02:44:23 AM
Not my cup of tea but an excellent build.
Well done DFZ.
:thumbsup:

Thank you, mate! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: Snowtrooper on November 02, 2017, 05:24:27 AM
Quote from: DogfighterZen on November 02, 2017, 03:57:16 AM
These Italeri kits are already too expensive, some on ebay now are going for over £60/70...
Looks like I have been extremely lucky then - I bought the other at €20 a few years back from the bay of evil, and last year found another in LHS's second-hand shelf for €10... :o
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 02, 2017, 06:32:53 AM
Yes, you have been very lucky indeed, the cheapest i bought was 20€, the most expensive was 35...  :rolleyes: But i had to do it cause i didn't know if i'd have the chance again. Looked for them for a few months in a row, and the only edition i didn't buy was the original Italeri boxing, this kit was the Revell and the Tamiya and Testors are in the stash, along with the DML kit.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: NARSES2 on November 02, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
That's very well done sir  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 03, 2017, 03:35:44 PM
Quote from: NARSES2 on November 02, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
That's very well done sir  :thumbsup:

Thank you, Sir!  :cheers: I have to admit, i really like how this came out. And although this may sound arrogant to some, i've always been a fan of the YF-23's design but i like it even more with the 4 poster tail configuration... :angel:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 03, 2017, 05:05:53 PM
Man, this even better on the 3rd or 4th pass or whatever this is now.  ;D ;D

Every time I check the thread I go back and look at the pics again.  :mellow: ;D

Anyway, it just occurred to me this time, that GMTA and the one I just finished a few days ago shares a trait with this glorious airplane.... ;  the black streak down the backside!!  :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: :wacko:


Evil lurks. . . ..  ;)

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 04, 2017, 12:15:28 AM
I'm glad you like the arachnid, thanks again, brotha!  :thumbsup:
Re the black backs, i've always wanted to paint something in that type of scheme, and now i'm wondering why didn't i do it sooner... Could've done it on my Portuguese Navy F-18D... Even F-16s look good with that type of scheme... and that reminds me, i've got a Viper on the bench... :wacko:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 19, 2017, 08:07:20 AM
Took a few more pics of this bird cause it was too cloudy on the day i took the first pics of the finished model...

(https://i.imgur.com/axIzmB8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/kPNfQPD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OpaylZV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mU6I9CL.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cvvQMSa.jpg)


Really happy with how this build came out, and these pics also came out a bit better, might even seduce one of you into nominating it for the whiffies, who knows... :angel: ;D

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 19, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
You already know, bud!!

The only way this could look any more real was if you had a big airfield diorama and something other than a bunch of bricks in the background.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 19, 2017, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on November 19, 2017, 08:13:38 AM
You already know, bud!!

The only way this could look any more real was if you had a big airfield diorama and something other than a bunch of bricks in the background.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

;D Thank you, once again, bro!  :thumbsup:
I know it's not a winner but i honestly think it deserves the honor of being among the chosen ones, even if, just for me to have the privilege of receiving an invitation to be present at the awards ceremony... as well as, being able to enjoy the excellent catering service, kindly provided by our friend Fred. ;D :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Regarding pics, you're right, i should do something about that situation... First, i need proper lights in my cave, then i'd like to build some sort of hangar or runway dio for the beauty pics... I should try to make it portable so i can take it outside and take advantage of living in one of the world's regions with more sunlight hours a year, i've always liked pictures of models taken with natural... And i should probably think about a better camera on the long run... :rolleyes:

:cheers:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 19, 2017, 09:43:27 AM
You're welcome!!!  Well deserving.  :mellow: :lol:

You're in the same exact picture-process-boat I am.  I've occasionally had a look around eBay for a good digital camera but as far as the rest.... I'm thinking of painting the top of my metal table outside with runway markings and stuff.  ;D ;D  Can't do much about the background but I'd like to find a big print or poster or whatever to mount on some big paper-board backing or.... whatever.... Like...   Well, TomZ's stuff is my inspiration.

I can't help but think all the knick knacks, piles of crap, lawn equipment, medicine bottles, chandaliers, and the rest of the malarkey that has nothing to do with aviation takes off some points in the Glamour Shotz (TM) department.  :unsure: ;D

Laziness is a big contributing factor as well...  :angel:
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 19, 2017, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: TheChronicOne on November 19, 2017, 09:43:27 AM
Laziness is a big contributing factor as well...  :angel:

Seems to be a major factor in a lot of subjects for most of us... :angel: ;D
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 19, 2017, 10:23:08 AM
It's a disease, bro.  ;D

Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: chrisonord on November 19, 2017, 03:14:09 PM
Those outdoor pics really do the plane more justice, it looks a lot more "real" now. :wub: Mine is sat on the bottom shelf of the display cabinet, stealthily intercepting dust  :lol: I have the Revel boxing of it in the stash too which is probably the Italeri one. That will be a Marine corps I think.
Chris.
Title: Re: YF-23 Black Widow - FINISHED!
Post by: DogfighterZen on November 19, 2017, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: chrisonord on November 19, 2017, 03:14:09 PM
Those outdoor pics really do the plane more justice, it looks a lot more "real" now. :wub: Mine is sat on the bottom shelf of the display cabinet, stealthily intercepting dust  :lol: I have the Revel boxing of it in the stash too which is probably the Italeri one. That will be a Marine corps I think.
Chris.

Yup, these pics came out a bit better than the cloudy day pics. :thumbsup:

The kit inside the Revell box is the Italeri mold, i used mine on this build, still have the Testors and Tamiya, which are also the Italeri mold.
It's a real shame there's no 1/72 kit in production, i think i'd buy a couple more, that's for sure.