Pretty conservative stuff, but will be more work than meets the eye. Basis will be the Airfix 1:72 F-86D from 1975, but converted into a gun-toting K - a task which requires a (small) fuselage extension and some cosmetics. Idea is rooted in the idea what all-weather fighetr could have entered service with the Finnish Air Force in parallel to the MiG-21F daytime fighter in the early Sixties? The Sabre Dog is an answer (from my side), and I am curious how this one will look in a classic Ilmavoimat paint scheme. ;D
Stay tuned...
Watching this thread with much attention and anticipation! (And ready to nitpick on the slightest Finnish details ;D)
When the daytime jet fighter deal was made, Mirage III had been the favoured candidate and SAAB Draken a close second - both test-flown by FAF - but MiG was selected without any test flights purely for *cough*Finlandization*cough political reasons. N-156 (to become F-5A) and F-104 were ruled out as politically unfeasible from the start. Later, EE Lightning was briefly tested (to an unfavourable opinion, except for the avionics) but Draken was selected in 1970 to equip two other squadrons (even though the second batch was only acquired in 1984-6, by which time 21bis had already replaced the F).
Yes, Finland's air defence was that inadequate in the 60's: one squadron of Gnats and one of 21's to cover the entire not-so-small country (FAF strength only reaching three squadrons in the 1980's, BAe Hawks being acquired at that time too).
One "problem" certainly was the limit of 60 aircraft with offensive capability. The Hawk was AFAIK highly appreciated because it could be "sold" as a trainer, outside of the limit, regardless of its potential. Mirage III appears like the most sensible solution.
Do you mean silver colored, like Finnish MiG-21F, or camo?
What codes to use? SD for Sabre Dog, and two or three numbers?
The vintage basis:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5497/31074672856_e3efffdb71_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkXPBE)1975 basis for a new project... (https://flic.kr/p/PkXPBE) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Thomas, you know I'm watching this, lol!
The impatience of the critical audience raises the tension... Work has already started last weekend with good and more progress than expected, pics soon to follow.
In the meantime, to keep the crowd entertained (and distracted), one of the inspiring things behind my build, accidently found while doing web search:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzEcJJ2m.jpg&hash=df5a379f0a53f4c71bfdff3e35ec05ca07c1a105)
Found here: http://live.warthunder.com/post/453983/en/
Rather crude combination of a MiG-21MF skin on a F-86 - but I find the result interesting, esp. with the roundels under the cockpit (reminds me of a dead, gaping carp?).
Code will probably be "SD-103". "SB", as seen in the CG, is unsuitable because it was already used in WWII for Soviet SB-2 bombers. But "SD" for a "Sabre Dog" abbreviation just matches the creative Finnish code system. ;)
Now back to the subject; the cockpit receives some pimping, with a (better) Martin Baker ejection seat from a Revell G.91. The same kit also donated some neat side consoles for the otherwise rather empty OOB cockpit:
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5323/30339264054_626c7d4035_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NdYEcy)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/NdYEcy) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5790/31016669852_be357934e6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PfQxkS)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PfQxkS) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
The fuselage is finished first, before the extension plug for the "K" Sabre and its respective cuts can be added:
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5606/30353042303_a3ba4cda38_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NfcgZz)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/NfcgZz) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Under the cockpit floor is ample space for lead, and while the air intake fits well into the fuselage halves the front view causes some headaches - there's simply a LOT of material that needs to be trimmed away.
More from the surgery tomorrow. ;D
Looking grand so far
More from the emergency room; creating an F-86K from a D looks easy - but in fact the gun-armed K had a 20 cm fuselage extension (about 3mm in 1:72) to counter a different CoG.
Maybe nobody will recognize it, but I decided to tackle this conversion...
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5526/31066638151_a5ce18a1d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkfDbg)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PkfDbg) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5344/31066635671_9216443f63_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkfCrv)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PkfCrv) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5642/30374015983_8049fa6258_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Nh3LJK)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Nh3LJK) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
I hope you mean 20cm & not 20m, otherwise that baby's gunna be one lo-ong mother! ;D ;)
Uh, oh! Corrected the post. :angel:
The mind BOGGLES at a 20 m long F-86! :o
That'd be longer than full size. ;D
In the meantime, operation "Turn a D into a K" goes on:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5462/31165270976_eaffa9006a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtYahd)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PtYahd) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5575/31201218395_230303c713_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Px9pci)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Px9pci) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5326/31165268406_c05bebe2c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtY9vU)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PtY9vU) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
And some detail work around the nose/guns and the cockpit; in an urge of megalomania I decided to modify the canopy for an open position, which means that the frame had to be cut out from the fuselage (the OOB clear part is just that, and has to be cut into two pieces, too):
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5611/31165267116_2384171806_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtY98E)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PtY98E) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5753/31165265926_b30c66f502_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtY8M9)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PtY8M9) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Looking good. I love Sabre Dogs.
Who does a modern 1/72 kit with engraved panel lines?
I think the Special Hobby kit comes with engraved panel lines - expensive, though.
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on November 24, 2016, 04:06:51 AM
I think the Special Hobby kit comes with engraved panel lines - expensive, though.
Yes, Dizzy, i've got the Special Hobby K and the surface detail is beautiful, with fine engraved lines and nice rivets on some panels. It has a nice decal sheet, a PE fret and resin wheels too. I paid 20 Euros for mine on a Portuguese online shop. As it's still in the box, i don't know about the fit of the parts but i think the price is worth it.
BTW, your Dog is looking very good! ;D :thumbsup:
Thank you - but so far it's just a modded "Old Kit". But the more I work on the old Airfix kit, tghe more I like it. It has some weaknesses, like the thick air intake lip or the bleak landing gera wells. But fit is pretty good and anything - expect for a pitot - is there.
More small parts work, closing in on painting! The ordnance comes from exterbal sources: the K-13s (instead of Sidewinders) are part of a MasterCraft Soviet aircraft weapon set, the pylons and launch rails are borrowed from an Academy MiG-23. The drop tanks come from a Revell Fiat G.91 - I assume that these are actually F-86 tanks, but they have simply a better shape than the OOB tanks (in the foreground), are slightly larger and feature stabilizer end caps. Some details were added to the landing gear wells, too.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5801/31073310692_6a1df87d8c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkQQG5)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PkQQG5) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5626/31073313962_693bd43b1a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkQREs)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PkQREs) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5826/31073307392_ce72d92450_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PkQPHb)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PkQPHb) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
I have to say that i've been very surprised with the old kits i've built so far, especially the F-80, IMHO, these old Airfix kits are still good despite lack of detail compared to recent molds. If nothing else, they're always good whif fodder, right? :thumbsup:
Yes, the Airfix F-80 is pretty good, too (built one in the Eighties), on par with the Sabre Dog. The really old Heller kits are very good, too, e .g. the Starfighter (with two nose sections), the Saab 35 or the Mirage F.1C. They all have very good proportions, extra parts galore, and very fine details - just raised panels. But they are excellent kits, esp. for their time, and partly "better" than some of todays offerings.
Thanks for the info on the Special Hobby kit guys.
Those tanks do look suspiciously like the Sabre tanks that came with the Dartstang conversion set.
I agree with you re the old kits. I particularly like the Airfix MiG 21.
Painting has started! There is much debate concerning the colors to use on Finnish aircraft. While FS 34096 is a good option for the lighter green (even though there seem to be wide variations, too), the "murky color" remains obscure – the recommendations range from pure black though dark olive drab or Forest Green (FS 34079) to a chocolate brown. Obviously, light and weathering have a huge impact and the paints and how they look, so I made guesstimates and tried to avoid FS tones.
As basic upper colors I settled upon simple Light Olive Green (Humbrol 86) and a 1:1:1 mix of Humbrol 173 (Scenic Track Color), 242 (RLM71, Dunkelgrün, a pretty murky and bluish variant, though) and 108 (WWI Green, a very dark olive tone) for an "Extra Dark Braunviolett", or - how I'd affectionately call it - "Breen". Simple RAF Aircraft Grey (Humbrol 166) was used for the undersides.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5823/31199850556_130b72acc5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Px2ozS)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Px2ozS) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Since it is amixed tone, work started this time with the dark "Breen":
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5475/31091581652_6a0989c4fd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pnsu1C)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Pnsu1C) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
...and then the Light Olive was added:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5691/30414450344_d90e9dbca0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NkC1sU)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/NkC1sU) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Undersides, shading and weathering to follow soon...
Looking good and authentic enough :wub:
The "light" green is the (in)famous Kimmo Kenttävihreä (Kim the Field Green) which according to the official standard is roughly FS 34151 or BS381c 222 aka US Interior Green (or British Light Bronze Green) which is just about nonstandard as hues get, and as it gets weathered (which it does very quickly) it gets a more yellowish hue. The official name is very descriptively "Vihreä" (green).
The "dark" green, supposedly about FS34064/BS381c 437 can be approximated with just about anything ranging from Schwartzgrün to Helo Drab - a very dark green that weathers to a brownish hue and gets progressively lighter. The official name calls it "Mustavihreä" (black green).
The light gray (Vaaleanharmaa) is variously approximated either as FS36440 or RAF Aircraft Grey BS381c 627 so you're spot on :thumbsup:
You can't go wrong either way, the existing MiG's in museums have a wild variety of hues, no two the same colour. A dark and a light tone and a very pale grey and you're good to go! ;D
In keeping with the season are you going to paint the nose red and call it Rudolph?
Quote from: zenrat on November 25, 2016, 10:06:55 PM
In keeping with the season are you going to paint the nose red and call it Rudolph?
;D I can imagine that one, even better with a complex array of antennas... :laugh:
Both, with Santa at the stick and some sugar canes under the wings... ;)
Thanks a lot for the info concerning the Finnish colors - I could not find any useful information and relied upon many reference pictures, online and in literature. In the recent Airfix BAe Hawk, which also contains an option for a Finnish aircraft, the recommended Humbrol tones are 224, 163 and 166. 224 is IMHO very good, but only if you want a "fresh" aircraft and do no shading or weathering. 163 is dubious, IMHO too light, but it could work as a combo - even though real world aircraft appear much darker to me, hence my mixed attempt that has a dedicated brownish hue. The undersides appear very pale, and simply grey. FS 36440 sound plausible, I even went with 166 for an even lighter tone - and it looks very good.
Everything will change, though, since a lot of shading with lighter and more intense colors follows soon - but the first impression looks good, at least to me. ;D
Meanwhile... some proof of progress: some wash and lots of shading with many different greens and browns.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5625/31216043896_d536cc773b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pysoio)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Pysoio) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5341/30884432850_3815110e92_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/P49MTy)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/P49MTy) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
No red nose - but things start to look dedicatedly Finnish:
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5500/31108209902_0af348d372_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PoVH1A)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PoVH1A) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
...and weathered. Well, any Finnish fighter I have seen so far looks very clean and tidy - except for some seriously sun-bleached upper surfaces or overpainted sections where the fresh paint really stands out. Hard to simulate, but in order to make things more interesting and less uniform, I treated the leading edges and the afterburner section with sand paper and added a few touch-ups around the fuselage. This is how things look, close to the decaling phase:
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5637/31216037556_d6b100daa1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pysmq5)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/Pysmq5) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
This appears pretty rotten, but clear varnish will dampen the look. Hopefully... :rolleyes:
Almost there... :lol:
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5761/31141737021_6179e8a919_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PrTxsn)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/Airfix kit conversion) - WiP (https://flic.kr/p/PrTxsn) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Roundels and squadron markings come from an Italeri 1:72 Bf 109G kit; the "Bat & Moon" emblem belonged to 2./HävLLv 31 when it was a night fighter squadron in the early Fifties, but it disappeared with the Finnish Bf 109s, AFAIK. The fictional all-weather F-86K appeared like an appropriate carrier for the stylish emblem, and, otherwise, the well-known lynx emblem would have been the alternative. The individual tactical code was puzzled together from single black letters and digits (TL Modellbau), while most stencils come from the OOB sheet and some other sources.
"SD-103" will soon be ready for a virtual flight over Kuopio-Rissala. ;)
Beautiful, always despised the Saber Dog D, for ruining (in my opinion at the time) the beautiful lines of the F-86A, E, & F. But after I discovered the cannon armed K, fell in love.
Glorious!! Remarkable work as always, Diz. Looking forward to the glamour shots.
Love it ! Those colours look perfect.
:wub:
Quote from: Captain Canada on November 26, 2016, 12:43:06 PM
Love it ! Those colours look perfect.
:wub:
Thank you (all, so far). Yes, the colors took some research and trial work. But I think I found a good look that catches esp. the unique dark tone well.
Quote from: Dizzyfugu on November 26, 2016, 02:45:37 AM
Thanks a lot for the info concerning the Finnish colors - I could not find any useful information and relied upon many reference pictures, online and in literature. In the recent Airfix BAe Hawk, which also contains an option for a Finnish aircraft, the recommended Humbrol tones are 224, 163 and 166. 224 is IMHO very good, but only if you want a "fresh" aircraft and do no shading or weathering. 163 is dubious, IMHO too light, but it could work as a combo - even though real world aircraft appear much darker to me, hence my mixed attempt that has a dedicated brownish hue. The undersides appear very pale, and simply grey. FS 36440 sound plausible, I even went with 166 for an even lighter tone - and it looks very good.
Everything will change, though, since a lot of shading with lighter and more intense colors follows soon - but the first impression looks good, at least to me. ;D
If you're interested, here's some more tidbits:
Two 21UM's were the first to be camo'd in 1974 with Finnish tones, roughly FS 30059 / 34064 / 34233 at this point (the scheme was still being experimented at that point).
Airfix instructions are probably correct for brand new Hawks: they were painted from the start with colours that (factory-fresh) actually match the BS definitions given in my earlier post (222/437/637) - this "standard" scheme was decided in 1977 and the NMF 21F's were also painted to this scheme when opportunity arose (eg. during a service overhaul).
The 21bis's which were delivered starting from 1978 were factory-painted in the Soviet Union and were
supposed to be painted in the new Hawk scheme but as Stalin said, "big country, big tolerances": the reality was often closer to FS 30108 (black) / 34127 (dark green) / 36373 (light blue-gray) and the tones varied wildly, even on the
same aircraft and became weathered even faster. Again, they were repainted with "standard" colours whenever convenient.
In 1988, paint supply for the "standard" colours was switched to a domestic alternative and thus the tones changed slightly from the 1977 version, roughly FS 30040 / 34102 / 36440 if you're really pedantic, but after weathering the difference is not really noticeable in nature (plus during the transition, there were of course new and old paint supplies used side by side, making things even more confusing...)
But like I said, if it looks good, it's good :thumbsup:
Thanks for that info ! I've started a folder with paint info. I'm horrible at keeping track !
:drink:
As per usual transfers bring it all to life :thumbsup:
This is interesting for me as I plan on making a Finnish AF Mirage F-1EF
So, here she is, in full glory:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5580/31241639096_db03134143_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHyRW)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHyRW) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5348/31277817315_025b74e86c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PDUZok)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PDUZok) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5477/30910201490_f96872a895_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/P6qS1s)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/P6qS1s) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Some background:
The North American F-86D Sabre (sometimes called the "Sabre Dog") was a transonic jet all-weather interceptor conceived for the United States Air Force, but found use in many other air forces, too. Originally designated YF-95, work began in March 1949 and the first, unarmed prototype made its m,aiden flight on 22 December 1949. It was the first U.S. Air Force night fighter design with only a single crewman and a single engine, a J47-GE-17 with afterburner rated at 5,425 lbf (24.1 kN) static thrust. Gun armament was completely eliminated in favor of a retractable under-fuselage tray carrying 24 unguided Mk. 4 HVAR rockets, then considered a more effective weapon against incoming enemy bomber groups at high altitude than a barrage of short-ranged cannon fire. The YF-95 nomenclature was short-lived, though, as the design was subsequently re-designated YF-86D – even though the new aircraft had only a 25% commonality with the F-86 day fighter.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5819/31133488052_bc299e538f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PragjL)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PragjL) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5453/31241674886_748aae1e22_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHKv1)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHKv1) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5565/31241660086_0211774cf2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHF6Q)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHF6Q) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
The fuselage was wider than the daytime fighter and the airframe length increased to 40 ft 4 in (12.29 m), with a clamshell canopy, enlarged tail surfaces and an AN/APG-36 all-weather radar fitted in a radome in the nose, above the relocated air intake. Later models of the F-86D received an uprated J-47-GE-33 engine rated at 5,550 lbf (24.7 kN) (from the F-86D-45 production blocks onward), and a total of 2,504 D-models were built until 1954.
Derivatives for NATO partners (models K and L) eventually returned to the cannon armament, had a simpler avionics suite with an MG-4 fire control system, an APG-37 radar and augmented these with IR-guided AIM-9 Sidewinder AAMs.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5335/31163138281_5f02fe2d89_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMeiB)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMeiB) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5752/31163154651_2339af59e3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMjaR)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMjaR) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5326/30456313124_9904b69579_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NpjyNY)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/NpjyNY) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Among the many overseas operators of the Sabre all-weather fighter in Europe and Asia, Finland's Air Force settled upon the type as an addition to the newly adopted MiG-21F-13 of Soviet origin as the Ilmavoimat's primary high performance daytime interceptor in the early Sixties. During the Cold War years, Finland tried to balance its purchases between east, west and domestic producers, strictly limited by the Paris peace talks of 1947. This led to a diverse inventory of Soviet, British, Swedish, French and Finnish aircraft.
After a thorough selection process, the Western F-86K was chosen and a total of 22 machines was procured from Italy, where most of the machines for European NATO partners were built in license. The Ilmavoimat's F-86Ks featured the F-86D's "short" wing from early production, and were originally delivered in bare metal livery, even though this was soon changed and a protective camouflage paint scheme applied.
By design, the Finnish F-86Ks were able to carry IR-guided AIM-9B Sidewinder AAMs on underwing pylons – but the Finnish Air Force did not procure the Sidewinder at all. Effectively, the Finnish F-86Ks were armed with K-13 AAMs, procured together with the MiG-21Fs and integral part of the fighter as a weapon system.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5612/31241653796_7b5d001fea_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHDeo)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHDeo) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5548/31277808495_64b127c0c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PDUWLg)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PDUWLg) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5748/31277820475_06a90977a7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PDV1jP)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PDV1jP) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Similar in appearance and function to the American AIM-9 Sidewinder, the K-13 was reverse-engineered from early Sidewinders, obtained by the Soviet Union during the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1958 via China. The copy work was actually so thorough that shape and size of the missiles were almost identical. Western shackles could be used without a problem – and the copy work even went so far that the K-13's internal elements like the guidance system were so closely modeled after the AIM-9B that Western and Eastern electronics were actually easily compatible! The unusual result was that the Finnish F-86Ks were the only Western fighters at that time toting weapons of Eastern Block origin!
The Finnish F-86Ks were assigned to two fighter units (HävLLv 21 and 31, located at Rovaniemi and Kuopio-Rissala, respectively), where flights for daytime (equipped with MiG-21Fs) and all-weather interception duties were built up and operated side-by-side.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5760/31163174771_d22414ab0b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMq9K)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PtMq9K) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5565/31241650426_7b5e375f7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHCeh)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHCeh) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5800/31241648396_137bbf48d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHBCh)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHBCh) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
Maintaining both the MiG-21 and the F-86 at the same time and the same places turned out to be a logistic nightmare, especially for a relatively small air force with limited resources like the Suomen Ilmavoimat. Consequently, the Sabre interceptors were already retired after a mere 10 years of service in 1972 – but the type was totally outdated, anyway, and posed no serious deterrence to potential intruders.
In the all-weather interceptor role, the F-86Ks were replaced by the Swedish state-of-the-art Saab 35BS Draken, while the MiG-21Fs soldiered on until the Eighties and were augmented and replaced by the MiG-21bis, which were also all-weather-capable.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5637/31241678996_4dec44a153_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHLHS)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHLHS) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5448/31133483492_5e4e551d66_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PraeY9)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PraeY9) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5609/31277824115_20918d6c50_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PDV2pz)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PDV2pz) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
General characteristics:
Crew: one
Length: 40 ft 11 in (12,50 m)
Wingspan: 37 ft 1.5 in (11.31 m)
Height: 15 ft 1 in (4.60 m)
Empty weight: 14,200 lb (6.447 kg)
Gross weight: 20,430 lb (9.276 kg)
Powerplant:
1× General Electric J47-GE-17B turbojet,
delivering 5,425 lbf (24.1 kN) dry thrust and 7,500 lbf (33.4 kN) with afterburner
Performance:
Maximum speed: 691 mph (1,112 km/h)
Maximum speed: Mach .91
Maxium range with internal fuel: 740 ml (1.190 km)
Service ceiling: 49,130 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 12,150 ft/min (61.7 m/s)
Armament:
4× 20 mm M24A1 cannon with 132 rounds per gun in the forward fuselage
4× underwing hardpoints for two IR-guided K-13/AA-2 'Atoll' (alternatively AIM9B
Sidewinder) AAMs, unguided missile pods, bombs of up to 1.000 lb (454 kg) caliber,
and a pair of drop tanks
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5666/31241636386_76e440f7e9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHy4d)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHy4d) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5742/31241623776_a695b9d22b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHuiN)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHuiN) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5556/31133460102_167f5a2e8b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pra81S)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/Pra81S) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5447/31241632566_ec2e614fb6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHwVm)1:72 North American (Fiat) F-86K "Sabre", 'SD-103' of the 2nd Flight/HävLLv 31 (Fighter Squadron 31/Hävittäjälentolaivue 31), Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force), Karelian Air Command; Kuopio-Rissala, 1968 (Whif/modified Airfix kit) (https://flic.kr/p/PAHwVm) by dizzyfugu (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dizzyfugu/), on Flickr
A model with more work involved than visible at first glance. One can argue whether the addition of the two fuselage plugs was actually worthwhile? But the Finnish livery suits the Sabre Dog very well, even though it might historically be a bit too early for the aircraft and its pseudo-historic window. But it look great! :mellow:
That is just superb :bow:
Beautiful! And well done.
The photos prove it: It is a true story :thumbsup:
Thank you very much! ;D
The pic with the missile launch might be a little dramatic - but the scene and the perspective were just right, I had to try - and it worked!
Otherwise, it is again interesting to see how effective a paint scheme is in the appropriate surroundings. Especially the low level scenes are very convincing.
Great job. It just looks and sounds so right. Love the shot of her firing the missiles !
:wub:
Faaaaaaaaantastic! I love how you take the time and care to make these wonderful pictures like this. I'm w/ CC, I liked that shot with the crossed up missiles. :D :D
Excellent work on a dog..
Meanwhile, I'm taking bets on how long before this winds up elseweres on the net. :wacko: ;D ;D ;D
Looks very good, Dizzy, great job! :thumbsup:
Excellent. This pic...
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5326/30456313124_9904b69579_z.jpg)
...is now the desktop background on my laptop.
Incredibly lifelike, I must say.
The model proves again that the key to achieve realistic results is not to exaggerate recessed panel lines (after all, if that were true, Matchbox kits would still be the best on market) but to bring out the differences between surfaces, as you have done with the fuselage access panels for example. Love the realistic weathering too, with the dapples on the spine and subtle paint chipping here and there.
---
You could easily handwave the earlier move to camouflage, say, by saying that when the FAF began implementing the roadway dispersal plan in 1965 (as they did in OTL), it became essential to camouflage the planes as they could not be hidden into a hangar anymore; an airfield is already a big huge bullseye, but out "in the field" a glistening NMF could well be enough to betray the location of the auxiliary airstrip. Or alternatively, in DACT against the Gnats (which had been delivered in the standard DG/DSG RAF day fighter camo) it was found out that the camouflage was an asset in dogfight - FAF had deduced that they would have to face fighters and fighter-bombers too instead of only strategic bombers, and AIM-9B/AA-2 having a short range and being rear aspect only meant that any air combat would become a dogfight anyway.
Quote from: Snowtrooper on November 29, 2016, 03:00:50 AM
The model proves again that the key to achieve realistic results is not to exaggerate recessed panel lines (after all, if that were true, Matchbox kits would still be the best on market) but to bring out the differences between surfaces, as you have done with the fuselage access panels for example. Love the realistic weathering too, with the dapples on the spine and subtle paint chipping here and there.
Thanks a lot. I think my working style is pretty individual, because I primarily use enamels and brushes. On the other hand, I feel that I have more control of what I want to achieve - and like to integrate mistakes,flaws and imperfections. After all, really "clean" service aircraft in pristine condition are rare - many "good" model I encounter are just that. Great craftmansship, but there's a lack of "soul" and inconsistency that adds some life to a model. And, in the end, it's the overall package of the model, the pics and the story for it that counts. If that's believable (if not entertaining?), mission accomplished. :lol: And in this case the Sabre Dog is a good product, from my personal pouint of view. And I am positively surprised how good the old Airfix kit looks, despite the fuselage extension.
Great you (all) like it! :cheers: