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General Modelling Forum => What-if related Products => ProjectTech Profiles => Topic started by: overscan on December 25, 2014, 02:57:34 AM

Title: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on December 25, 2014, 02:57:34 AM
We are pleased to announce that Blue Envoy Press will be producing Paul Martell-Mead and Barrie Hygate's long-awaited Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects in the Project Tech Profile series.

All at Blue Envoy would like to thank SPF members for their fantastic support and help with the Project Tech Profiles and hope that Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects meets your expectations. We hope to have it available in the summer.

Merry Christmas and all the best for 2015.

Chris, Adrian, Paul and Mike

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1117.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk597%2Fsecretprojects_co_uk%2FP1121_TSR2_arctic_3_zps1ee447a1.jpg&hash=27b6a3a37726f9fd61f2b3b6de38bad2f735d5a8) (http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/secretprojects_co_uk/media/P1121_TSR2_arctic_3_zps1ee447a1.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Mr.Creak on December 25, 2014, 03:20:15 AM
Excellent.
That's definitely on my "Will be bought list".
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Thorvic on December 25, 2014, 03:33:22 AM
Great to see it come to fruition  :thumbsup:

One to look forward to in 2015
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: eatthis on December 25, 2014, 05:16:59 AM
tsr2 + escort fighter = nerdgasm  :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Captain Canada on December 25, 2014, 06:26:46 AM
Very cool. Love the shot of the two of them together. Would look awesome side by side on the tarmac as well.

:cheers:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on December 25, 2014, 07:06:16 AM
Tease!!!


Also a definite buy which will help with the group build next year.

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Vlamgat on December 27, 2014, 01:45:41 AM
Great stuff. This i shall be buying.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on December 28, 2014, 01:20:54 AM
I'm editing some of Barrie Hygate's drawings for publication at the moment.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1117.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk597%2Fsecretprojects_co_uk%2FP1121Prototype_zps85f1d57b.jpg&hash=ef067af673490a6492d85bf844bc0cb4bf10a9ca) (http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/secretprojects_co_uk/media/P1121Prototype_zps85f1d57b.jpg.html)

What is the feeling about the apparent rivets on access doors? A former Hawker engineer of my acquaintance detests rivets in 3 views - what is the general opinion?

Many of his detailed 5 view drawings are best reproduced at A3 size. They may be released as an A3 PDF supplement for purchasers of the book for printing at home - this would be especially interesting for modellers I think?


Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on December 28, 2014, 03:07:32 AM
Don't mistake rivets for Dzus fasteners, or vice versa.

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on December 28, 2014, 03:24:20 AM
QuoteDzus fasteners

yep, obviously you don't rivet access panels. :banghead:

The rivets are represented by the dotted lines, I think, while the prominent dots are fasteners.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Weaver on December 28, 2014, 03:29:04 AM
I dunno: I can see why people think they're too prominent and/or make the plane look "boilerplated" in the drawing, but then from a practical point of view, it's more information, i.e. it's better for a modeller to know that they're there rather than not, and within the limits of resolution, there might be no option but to make them over-prominent.

I spotted a few other things in that drawing. I can't say that they're definately wrong (what do I know?) but they certainly caught my attention as odd.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FP1121notes.jpg&hash=ed6b85115a8366476f647ae428faace63cd30487) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/P1121notes.jpg.html)

1 +2 : It looks as though the innermost panel line on the wing extends across the root fairing. This looks odd: I'd have thought the faring would cover the wing, and even if it did have panel lines, would they really be in those positions?

3 : Does this panel line really stop dead in the middle of a panel? It might do, but again, it looks odd. There are multiple examples of this on similar panels on both wings.

4 : Should this parallellogram-shaped panel have a continuation of one of the normal panel lines cutting across it's tip? Again, there might be some reason to build it that way, but it leaps out.

EDIT : just read your reply and 3 & 4 make more sense if they're lines of rivets in the middle of panels rather than actual panel edges.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Howard of Effingham on December 28, 2014, 04:52:27 AM
hmm, this I like.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on December 28, 2014, 11:44:55 AM
Thanks. I didn't draw the drawings, but I will certainly take the comments on board.   
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on June 13, 2015, 02:52:01 AM
Update on progress:

Text is done, images being finalised and layout underway. Not too long now.
Title: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects - call for model photo
Post by: overscan on August 22, 2015, 10:09:54 PM
OK - so - book is scheduled for release 2 November.

I have a place for photo of a P.1121 model built from a commercial kit. Best photo & model wins.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects - call for model photo
Post by: Gondor on August 23, 2015, 01:32:21 AM
Quote from: overscan on August 22, 2015, 10:09:54 PM
OK - so - book is scheduled for release 2 November.

I have a place for photo of a P.1121 model built from a commercial kit. Best photo & model wins.

Looking forward to it's release

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Vlamgat on August 24, 2015, 02:01:33 PM
Cant wait!
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Thorvic on August 24, 2015, 02:04:54 PM
Oh it will be worth the wait  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on August 24, 2015, 02:27:43 PM
I see a lot of scratch building in my future......

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on August 31, 2015, 02:40:03 PM
We're working hard for 2 November release date. Some problems have been encountered in production but the book is now complete awaiting final editing checks and then print. As its printed in the good old UK, we don't need to wait for shipping from China.

Can't be later than 2 November if I'm going to be at Telford 2015 signing the buggers :)

Posted contents page on Secret Projects forum (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23478.msg257970.html#msg257970), for anyone interested.

64 pages (longest Project Tech yet) and additional downloadable content that I couldn't shoe-horn in.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on August 31, 2015, 02:48:56 PM
So what date do you have to get the model picture into the book by? I take it that some time in October will be when that is if you still have the space

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on August 31, 2015, 02:59:04 PM
Ideally soon. I have an OK picture from a guy on Britmodeller.com.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn45%2Foverscanpaul%2FContents.jpg&hash=846a42a544b49247c27414dfc2e94a1b342494ed)
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on September 04, 2015, 11:28:25 PM
We have a new cover - current version here -

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn45%2Foverscanpaul%2FCover5.jpg&hash=d0192a5ddaee66bed90a0da9ac81fbb8793b90fb)
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: kitnut617 on September 05, 2015, 05:44:28 AM
Definitely on my shopping list ------
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on September 05, 2015, 09:37:26 AM
Tease!

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Mossie on September 05, 2015, 01:14:15 PM
Added to the Christmas list! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Mr.Creak on September 05, 2015, 01:15:21 PM
I can't wait 'til Christmas. I want it NOW!  ;D
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Captain Canada on September 05, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
Great cover pic. The Rooskie's will still be shaking if they had seen that coming !

:thumbsup: :wub: :tornado:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Kelly Bushings on September 30, 2015, 12:03:58 PM
Blue Envoy Press are proud to inform all forum members that Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects by Paul Martell-Mead and Barrie Hygate has gone to the printers.

It will be available for ordering soon, priced at £11.95

UK postage will be £1.75
EU Postage will be £5.30
USA Postage will be £7.60
Aus/NZ postage from UK will be £8.00 (Paul might handle the Oz/NZ side of things)

I will let you know when it is available - we might even have an online shop by then.

Thanks

Chris

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv666%2FThorvic%2FP1121_cover_zpswgxqs3nj.jpg&hash=fafccf57fc521a792164654369a5f7fb7d8cb6c7)
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Steel Penguin on September 30, 2015, 12:06:40 PM
ohh shiny  :thumbsup:
that's going on the list
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on September 30, 2015, 01:55:00 PM
That's going towards the top of my list for certain  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: NARSES2 on October 01, 2015, 05:56:31 AM
That's a good price  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Kelly Bushings on November 06, 2015, 11:04:18 AM
Paul Martell-Mead and Barrie Hygates's Hawker P.1103 and P.1121 - Camm's Last Fighter Projects will be launched at the IPMS International Show in Telford tomorrow (7th Nov) with the book being signed and sold at The Aviation Bookshop stall from 1130hrs. If you fancy a copy, come along and grab one before they sell out.  Get it signed while you're at it. Paul and I will be around for a blah most of Saturday.

It will be available for ordering from Blue Envoy Press from Monday (9th Nov), priced at £11.95. Details to follow.

UK postage will be £1.75
EU Postage will be £5.30
USA Postage will be £7.60
Aus/NZ postage from UK will be £8.00.

I will of course combine postage and try to minimise the postage costs where possible.


Thanks

Chris
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on November 06, 2015, 10:14:23 PM
Woohoo!

If you see me at the show come up and say hi.
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Kelly Bushings on November 08, 2015, 11:24:07 PM
To order a copy of Hawker P.1103 and P.1121 - Camms' Last Fighter Projects, please send your Paypal payments to:

blue.envoy.services@googlemail.com

Any queries, please drop me a line at the same email address.

Costs:

Single copies are £11.95 each

UK postage will be £1.75 (total = £13.70)
EU Postage will be £5.30 (total  = £17.25)
USA Postage will be £7.60 (total = £19.55)
Aus/NZ postage from UK will be £8.00. (£19.95)

I will, of course, combine postage and try to minimise the postage costs where possible.

Copies of Air Staff and AEW, Admiralty and AEW and Vickers VC10 - AEW, Pofflers and Other Unbuilt Variants are also available at £9.95 each plus postage.

I aim for same day posting when I'm at home.

Many thnaks

Chris
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Weaver on November 12, 2015, 04:12:39 PM
Just finished reading the book, which I bought at Telford. Excellent job: highly interesting and full of information, but also very readable. I particularly appreciated the insights into the atmosphere and working relationships within Hawker in the 1950s. That sort of thing is hugely important in how things turn out, but tends to be missed by the 'lists of facts and events' style of writing that forms a huge chunk of aviation history. The artwork is good and the drawings are models of clarity. There's certainly a huge amout of raw whiffing material here to think about.

I pretty much agree with the conclusion, although I have to say that I think Derek Wood's comment about it being a 'British Phantom' has been generally misunderstood by being taken too literally. He was referring purely to the P.1121's export prospects, not making a direct technical comparison between the two types.

I only noticed one error: Page 30, middle column, last paragraph starts in the middle of a sentence with a comma. At a guess I'd say the missing words are something like "De Havilland were". That's a splendid strike rate (much better than some big publishers' efforts) and in no way detracts from the value of the work.

Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Thorvic on November 12, 2015, 11:48:32 PM
Quote from: Weaver on November 12, 2015, 04:12:39 PM
Just finished reading the book, which I bought at Telford. Excellent job: highly interesting and full of information, but also very readable. I particularly appreciated the insights into the atmosphere and working relationships within Hawker in the 1950s. That sort of thing is hugely important in how things turn out, but tends to be missed by the 'lists of facts and events' style of writing that forms a huge chunk of aviation history. The artwork is good and the drawings are models of clarity. There's certainly a huge amout of raw whiffing material here to think about.

I pretty much agree with the conclusion, although I have to say that I think Derek Wood's comment about it being a 'British Phantom' has been generally misunderstood by being taken too literally. He was referring purely to the P.1121's export prospects, not making a direct technical comparison between the two types.

I only noticed one error: Page 30, middle column, last paragraph starts in the middle of a sentence with a comma. At a guess I'd say the missing words are something like "De Havilland were". That's a splendid strike rate (much better than some big publishers' efforts) and in no way detracts from the value of the work.



Nice Review H, although Chris & Paul may draft you in as a proof reader on the next one  ;)

Paul has a separate section on the secret Projects site where some of the material that had to pulled to reduce the volume to the agreed page count will be made available to those owners of the book who are interested.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=56.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=56.0)

A note on the drawings, if you do find yourself inspired you may find the drawings are available to download in the above section or if not you could always contact Paul and he may provided them if he can for personal use only.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on November 13, 2015, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Weaver on November 12, 2015, 04:12:39 PM
Just finished reading the book, which I bought at Telford. Excellent job: highly interesting and full of information, but also very readable. I particularly appreciated the insights into the atmosphere and working relationships within Hawker in the 1950s. That sort of thing is hugely important in how things turn out, but tends to be missed by the 'lists of facts and events' style of writing that forms a huge chunk of aviation history. The artwork is good and the drawings are models of clarity. There's certainly a huge amout of raw whiffing material here to think about.

I pretty much agree with the conclusion, although I have to say that I think Derek Wood's comment about it being a 'British Phantom' has been generally misunderstood by being taken too literally. He was referring purely to the P.1121's export prospects, not making a direct technical comparison between the two types.

I only noticed one error: Page 30, middle column, last paragraph starts in the middle of a sentence with a comma. At a guess I'd say the missing words are something like "De Havilland were". That's a splendid strike rate (much better than some big publishers' efforts) and in no way detracts from the value of the work.


Apologies for the mistake, this is my fault, not Chris or Neil who proofread it. There are 3 minor layout errors I noticed as well. I did all the design/layout for the book due to Adrian Mann being unavailable at the last minute, and due to the hard deadline of Telford had to make some last minute edits after proofing based on feedback provided but did not have time to print and proofread last time before it was printed and introduced a few errors.

Next time I will aim to have the book completed earlier....
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on November 14, 2015, 02:06:34 AM
Quote from: overscan on November 13, 2015, 03:38:32 PM

Next time I will aim to have the book completed earlier....


That's what every writer says and every model builder says that they will have a certain model ready for a certain date/show. Saying that, this time I did manage to get a model ready for the show. Hope you liked my 4 Squadron P.1121.

Gondor
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Weaver on November 14, 2015, 03:22:16 AM
Quote from: Gondor on November 14, 2015, 02:06:34 AM
Quote from: overscan on November 13, 2015, 03:38:32 PM

Next time I will aim to have the book completed earlier....


That's what every writer says and every model builder says that they will have a certain model ready for a certain date/show. Saying that, this time I did manage to get a model ready for the show. Hope you liked my 4 Squadron P.1121.

Gondor

What do you mean? I never spend the last half hour before a competition deadline swearing at Photobucket for not uploading the photos while the decals are still drying......

<walks away whistling>
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Thorvic on November 14, 2015, 04:05:24 AM
BTW Did anyone get shots of the P1121 models on the Project Cancelled SIG stand, i actually completed the S&M resin kit on the Friday, packed it and displayed it with the original Whirlybirds one i built years ago. However like a prat i never photographed the stand and i gave Paul both models in thanks as he's not been a modeller for some many years and thought hw would appeciate a model of the aircraft he's spent so much time and effort researching (plus it gives him a chance to show his family and friends what his book is alll about  ;D)
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: Gondor on November 14, 2015, 06:35:24 AM
Quote from: Thorvic on November 14, 2015, 04:05:24 AM
BTW Did anyone get shots of the P1121 models on the Project Cancelled SIG stand, i actually completed the S&M resin kit on the Friday, packed it and displayed it with the original Whirlybirds one i built years ago. However like a prat i never photographed the stand and i gave Paul both models in thanks as he's not been a modeller for some many years and thought how would appreciate a model of the aircraft he's spent so much time and effort researching (plus it gives him a chance to show his family and friends what his book is all about  ;D)

There's this -> http://s652.photobucket.com/user/JBricknell/media/SMW%202015%20WhatIf%20SIG%20and%20Project%20Cancelled/SMW%20222.jpg.html?sort=3&o=20

Gondor



Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: TsrJoe on November 14, 2015, 09:36:29 AM
yip I took individual snaps of the models on the table, im not sure how to post them up on here but iv added them to the 'East of Suez' Project Cancelled SIG. FB. page :)

cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 14, 2015, 10:21:55 AM
Quote from: TsrJoe on November 14, 2015, 09:36:29 AM
yip I took individual snaps of the models on the table, im not sure how to post them up on here.......

HOW long have you been on here Joe?  ;D :lol:
Title: Re: Hawker P.1103 and P.1121: Camm's Last Fighter Projects
Post by: overscan on November 29, 2015, 10:10:54 PM
Just in case you didn't see these yet - a couple of preview pages.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn45%2Foverscanpaul%2FP1121_Cover.png&hash=fe2b22fe6ac7d6326235ab3ec141d6350d7bd305)(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn45%2Foverscanpaul%2FP1121_Example1.png&hash=8e216dc9a1ae53a7d76e01c0ae17299bd6396db5)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn45%2Foverscanpaul%2FP1121_Example2.png&hash=b6a31fa8ab165d49c7afcdcf240537219eff002e)

Feedback has been very positive, for which I am very grateful. Thanks to everyone who has bought it so far!

Christmas isn't far away - why not buy a copy? You deserve it :) :party: