My current work in progress has involved mixing a Matchbox Phantom with Fujimi details fot cockpit, nose gear bay and engines and converting it to the FVS Phantom by building a wing box and gloves from plastic card and adaping kitech F-14 wings.
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I used the Matchbox kit as it has separate wings and fuselage belly making the conversion somewhat easier to manage, plus the plastic is somewhat softer and easier to work than the harder more brittle plastic form the Japanese kits. The Matchbox panel lines actually help the build as it easier too as its easier to establish where the cuts should go.
However the down side of the kit is the simpler details in the cockpit and canopy along with engines and wheel wells, here I struck lucky as I had a damaged Fujimi Fg1 kit I got cheap off eBay for spares, so I was able to rob the cockpit, nose gear bay and engines from that kit. However all of these parts are available as aftermarket Resin items, so the conversion could be done using those parts instead. The other flaw with the Matchbox kit is the canopy as they moulded as just the glass parts with the frame moulded onto the fuselage which doesn't give it the right look, therefore as you get the choice of both a one piece and a multipart open canopy in the Fujimi kit I elected to carefully cut out the frame on the matchbox kit and replace with the Fujimi one.
With the VG conversion the fuselage has a similar plug in it as per the HL just aft of the Intakes. Therefore I cut the fuselage in half at this point allowing me to work the front half and fit the Fujimi parts. The rear upper fuselage was assembled and new main undercarriage bays were created on the lower fuselage pan by cutting out the hole and building up a plastic card box around them. The belly pan was then slightly bent upwards for and aft of this bay as its a bit deeper than the normal F-4 and wedges were added to keep this shape when its joined to the upper fuselage sides.
The wing box was created by cutting out the template of the shape in two sheets of plastic card and using strip styrene to build up an internal structure to create the gap for the wings, the gloves were built up from solid plastic and putty so they could then be sanded and filed down to shape. I set mine up with the wings set swept back, but I did create the wing pivot point in case I wanted to do them movable. For ease of use I actually cut out a notch from the wing pivot hole to allow the wings to be swap fitted to test the look and separate painting although I will probably fix these in place when the model is finished.
Once the wing box was finished it was a simple case of cutting out a slot in the upper fuselage and sliding in the wing box and securing it in place. The fuselage plug was than built up and the forward fuselage was slid into place and then blended together with lots of PSR.
Still a bit of PSR to do following a test prime but thought I would show that a VG toom is quite viable :thumbsup:
Lovely piece of work on a fascinating project - nice one! :thumbsup:
Interesting build. Going to watch this with interest.
That's good :thumbsup:
Still doesn't do anything to a phantoms looks though ;D
Regards
Keith
Terrific work there. :thumbsup:
To my eye the shoulder wing just does not look right, makes the beast look rather like a Mig-23.
However that is not your fault it is some RW's idiot designer's fault. :rolleyes:
Jim
Nice surgery- keep it up :thumbsup:
Quote from: JayBee on May 19, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
Terrific work there. :thumbsup:
To my eye the shoulder wing just does not look right, makes the beast look rather like a Mig-23.
However that is not your fault it is some RW's idiot designer's fault. :rolleyes:
Jim
Its mostly due to the less than ideal wing design on the Phantom, it followed on from the HL to give better lift and slower approach speeds. The structural layout of the phantom with the intakes and engine location meant that only a shoulder mounted wing was viable as it had to sit above the engines. If you look at the McDD design for the Tomcat competition that actually had a low mounted VG wing and a Phantomish style nose and that doesn't look right either !
This is cool. I have read about the VG Phantom proposal (yes, the wing postion is correct, and ugly, too!), and it is nice (if not great) to see that it enters the hardware stage. :bow: :thumbsup:
Nice one Geoff ! This is going to be awesome.
:cheers:
Quote from: JayBee on May 19, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
To my eye the shoulder wing just does not look right, makes the beast look rather like a Mig-23.
I knew it reminded me of something :thumbsup:
Very interesting build Geoff, looking forward to the finished product.
Nice to see this being built Thorvic.
Don't hold your breath waiting for me to build anything similar of F-111 based.
Gondor
Quote from: Thorvic on May 19, 2014, 05:32:59 AM
Quote from: JayBee on May 19, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
Terrific work there. :thumbsup:
To my eye the shoulder wing just does not look right, makes the beast look rather like a Mig-23.
However that is not your fault it is some RW's idiot designer's fault. :rolleyes:
Jim
Its mostly due to the less than ideal wing design on the Phantom, it followed on from the HL to give better lift and slower approach speeds. The structural layout of the phantom with the intakes and engine location meant that only a shoulder mounted wing was viable as it had to sit above the engines. If you look at the McDD design for the Tomcat competition that actually had a low mounted VG wing and a Phantomish style nose and that doesn't look right either !
By and large, swing wings only really work in the high position since it lets the pivot be as far inboard as possible, thus gaining the maximum amount of swinging wing for the weight penalty, without the wing having to store the undercarriage. The only exception is the Su-17/22, who's wing is mid-set and still holds the u/c, but in that case, much less of the wing moves, thus giving much less advantage. It was probably only considered viable because of how limited the Su-7 it was derived from was, i.e. a modest improvement looks okay when you're starting from a low baseline.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,229.60.html (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,229.60.html)
Have a look at the McDD 225 for VFX requirement, for a low wing VG
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That's an interesting one - cheers. :thumbsup:
Looking at the structural drawing, it seems to have avoided the classic solid wing box associated with VG. Instead, it had a pair of triangular frames inside the gloves, linking the pivots to a pair of heavy but separate frames, which allowed the undercarriage to retract between them.
I've always wanted to build this, but never had the know how to do it.
The build without the swing wings looked as though it had F-22 wings.
Looking good.
I might go for the Su-22 wings instead.
Finally managed to get this build painted and decaled and got it finished last night. Looks a bit different to the standard phantom but it appears to work. Will try and get photos done tonight if the lights OK, as typically the bright summer evenings are switching over to overcast darker ones just as you want to make use of the daylight ! :banghead:
One thing that has worked and I will use again is using Fujimi parts to improve the look of the Matchbox Phantom, most of the stuff can be replaced by after market resin, and as the Fujimi kits have two sets of Canopies (open or closed) the spare can be used to resolve the questionable shape of the Matchbox canopy.
Why bother with a Matchbox when you can get a Fujimi you might ask, well for a standard F-4K/M you wouldn't bother but the parts breakdown along with the type of plastic used makes the Matchbox easier to work with when doing the FVS conversion as I did or perhaps the F-4HL design with the larger span and sweep wings. I might see about doing another HL build at some stage when the work bench is cleared again.
That little used shop I go to in Hamilton had a half dozen or so Fujimi Phantoms for under 10 bucks, but they are all the E type nose....might snag a few anyway.
A Royal Navy F-4K(FVS) Phantom FG-3 XX988, circa 1979 of 899 Squadron on board CVA-02 HMS Duke of Edinburgh, replacing HMS Eagle and the conventional F-4K Phantom FG1.The VG Toom offering better low speed handling for Carrier ops and a longer loiter time for Combat Air Patrols.
In reality the F-4M(FVS) was the version propossed for the UK to swap out its F-4K/M, by the time it was designed in 1967 the UK Carrier fleet had got its days numbered, the the Phantom FG1 would be its last conventional Carrier aircraft. However had the death bell not been sounded in 1966 with the cancellation of the first CVA-01 carrier which was about to be ordered, then their would have been quite an interest in the VG Phantom as the limitaions of the standard phantom design were being discovered and operations from the Ark Royal and Eagle would be somewhat restricted. Plans to switch Hermes to the Phantom had to be abandoned as a result. The F-4M(FVS) offered to the RAF didn't really warrant the swap over as the RAF were more keem to use them as Hunter replacements than Javelins.
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(Sorry about the photos, the lighting not brill at the moment and i suspect my camwea was still in scenic mode as not as crisp as they usually are)
That looks very nice Geoff, well done :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Ahah, now I see what you did with the gear etc. Ignore my post on your other thread in that case.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on July 30, 2014, 12:29:21 PM
Ahah, now I see what you did with the gear etc. Ignore my post on your other thread in that case.
I was thinking along the same lines Kit.
Great build Thorvic :thumbsup:
Gondor
It's OK, he's got posted more pics in the other thread, including underside ones.
ohh that's shiney!
and for a moment in the 1st/2nd pic I thought it was a scaled-o-ramaed B1
Woah....what a beauty ! Nice job Geoff. I love the look...all around. Love the underside shot, the tanks are huge !
:cheers:
Quote from: Captain Canada on July 30, 2014, 03:41:06 PM
Woah....what a beauty ! Nice job Geoff. I love the look...all around. Love the underside shot, the tanks are huge !
:cheers:
Yeap the APR volume with the FVS gives a load by pylon breakdown and I was surprised to see it was two 600 gallon tanks rather than 300, one of the problems with the data is that most of the drawings and artwork and models show it clean to show off the lines, but I needed to show it could match its fixed wing older brother and exceed it.
Overall I found it an enjoyable build, there is some trial and error as per most scratch builds and there are things I would probably do different in hindsight, but overall it wasn't too bad.
The Matchbox kit refitted with some decent interior bits and canopy address the look issues with that kit and the butt jointed wings make it a easier kit to adapt to the shoulder mounted wing than most of the other kits with a common lower wing and fuselage piece. The plastic is easier to work and the infamous panel lines make excellent cutting guides.
There are other FVS versions the original concept was a USN F-4B which could have allowed the Phantom to replace the Crusaders on the smaller modernised Essex class carriers, that could then have led to the French adopting it for their Foch class and maybe other navies looking to replace their smaller Colossus/Majestic class carriers with either Modernised Essex class or some of the RN left overs.
Tony Buttler's US Secret Projects:-Fighters has a drawing that appears to be the F-4E nose on a VG toom and I have drawings for longer versions including ones with fixed wings.
Interestingly the APR article has the FVS evolving into the MCD/D model 225with the low set VG wing and phantom style features.
Come out really well Geoff
Personally I think she's a better looker then your average Phantom but then that's not to difficult.
F4 - Effective ? brutish ? Yes. A looker ? Not really
Great result! The Fist of the Fleet has to be one of the greatest emblems out there.
Really great execution :thumbsup:
That's outstanding: terrific piece of work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Can't wait for some numpty to come up to the stand at a show and declare it a ridiculous and unrealistic idea (like someone did with the VG Lightning).... :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
Wonderful work Sir
Quote from: Thorvic on July 30, 2014, 11:54:28 PM
Yeap the APR volume with the FVS gives a load by pylon breakdown and I was surprised to see it was two 600 gallon tanks rather than 300, one of the problems with the data is that most of the drawings and artwork and models show it clean to show off the lines, but I needed to show it could match its fixed wing older brother and exceed it.
Larger tanks to make up for less internal volume for fuel due to the wing being in the fuselage rather than under it perhaps?
What did you use for the main undercarriage bays and legs?
Gondor
I'm not all that sure about less internal fuel as there is a fuselage plug and the wings were wet. The performance figures show a greatly improved CAP endurance although part of that is due to the more efficient loiter time by sweeping the wings forward.
The main bays were scratch built from plastic card as I built them onto the floor pan and slid them into the fuselage, as for the legs I think I eventually cut down the F-14 ones that I had robbed the wings from. Its was more trial and error once the painting was done, in hindsight I probably should have worked out and refined the main gear bay and legs during build but the focus was more on if the build concept would work or not !.
Now I know it can be done and how to do it so I know how to do another one at some stage.