What if

Hi folks, well I've given up on the Frogspawn, so I'm starting a new project for this build. What if the Soviets had formed US-style aggressor squadrons to train their pilots in dissimilar air combat? What might they have used to simulate large western aircraft such as the Phantom?

Well I'm going with this:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fsu-15box.jpg&hash=90a182794ac93c2a437c7b6c3ddda17b5ccf9c86) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/su-15box.jpg.html)

The idea is to make a Soviet aggressor squadron Su-15 with minor physical vismods and a paint job to enable it to play the part of an F-4E Phantom in wargames. The idea is to convey the general outline of the enemy aircraft, not reproduce it in every detail (an F-5 looks nothing like a MiG-21, but the USAF didn't do anything except paint them), so physical vismods will be limited to an an undernose "gun fairing", a deep spine, non-functional tanks on the outer pylons and fake underscale twin Sidewinders on the inners. The paint job will be approximately USAF SE Asia scheme, with tweaks to simulate the F-4's undercut engine nozzles, dihedral outer wing and Sparrows. The markings will be a big white bort number on the tail (simulating the USAF base code) and white triangles and bars to simulate the visual effect of the US stars'n'bars marking without actually copying it.

I had intended to use a PM two-seat Flagon for this, but then I managed to pick up a sensibly priced Trumpeter one at Huddersfield, so game on...

I'm calling it an SU-15UP because Google Translate tells me that the Russian for "simulated enemy" is Uslovnogo Protivnika", but I'm very dubious of these translation programs so if anyone knows better, please don't hesitate to suggest an alternative.

Just read a highly useful build up of the related Flagon-A kit here:

http://www.ratomodeling.com/finished/flagon72/

Noted with alarm the comment about long surface marks, apparently caused by the slide-moulding process, along the top and bottom corners of the fuselage, went and had a look at mine, and yep: I've got them. Still forewarned is forearmed: I can now fill them FIRST, rather than when I'm juggling a half-painted model, so cheers to Rato Marczak for the info!  :thumbsup:

Spent the evening dealing with the slide-moulding marks. Not terrible: the ones on the top surface, which you'd notice the most, don't cross that many panels, so you can sand them relatively efficiently. The ones on the bottom cross a lot more of the small rivetted panels, but that actually makes them easier to hide because they're more broken up anyway. For the latter, I've mostly scraped them off in between the panels with a small curved knife blade, then tidied them up with fine sanding sticks that don't threaten the detail.

Found my spine fairings, and with entertaining irony, they're gun pods halves from the same Airfix Phantom who's instructions I'm using as a paint guide..... ;D :thumbsup:

Started reading reviews and builds about this kit and it turns out there are about four times as many problems with it as I thought there were.... :rolleyes: Most of these I'm going to leave alone on the "looks like a Flagon to me" principle. I'm not even going to go for the two most popular upgrades, a resin nose and a resin cockpit, because the nose on mine is going to be non-standard anyway, and the cockpit glazings are so small that you can hardly see anything. I might have some canopy masks though.

However, there are a few things that are annoying and either need fixing or can be fixed without extra expense.


1. The cockpit deck.

The Trumpy kit has a seprate deck around the cockpit area so that single and two seat versions can be made. This deck is thin, bendy, barely touches the (bendy) fuselage sides and has hardly any support. Anyone who's nightmares are still haunted by a Matchbox Meteor NF.11 will find it distressingly familiar. The middle of the deck is quite well supported (I think) by the cockpit tub bulkheads, but the ends have to rest, for no apparent reason, on four 1mm square tabs, which would be poor if the deck fitted, but since it's at least 0.5mm too short... :rolleyes:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fsu-15cockpitdeckmods.jpg&hash=60261b503ca88273bb671c3285d8d4806ab4df53) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/su-15cockpitdeckmods.jpg.html)

Why Trumpeter couldn't put those white bits in is beyond me. Behind the fuselage, you can see the cockpit deck with a shim attached to it's front end, ready to be trimmed when it's dry. I'd have preferred the shim at the rear where it would be partially hidden by my spine mod, but unfortunately panel lines don't allow it.


2. The engine nozzles.

This one is just head-scratchingly barmpot.....

Exhibit A. Each nozzle is made from three tubes, there being (left to right), the afterburner flameholder (and blank), an intermediate tube, and the variable nozzle. These are suppose to be glued together in a stack and inserted into the tail fairing as you can see in the background.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FSu-15nozzles1.jpg&hash=3ad79db0c17f444998a4e2b2e9a9d66f329d96f0) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Su-15nozzles1.jpg.html)

So what's wrong with this? Well it puts the flameholder nearly six scale feet inside the aircraft, which is more than twice as far as it should be, as is readily apparent from any number of walkaround pics on the internet. This means that Trumpy havn't just got it wrong, they've actually put in two complete extra pieces that make it more wrong: you can leave out the intermediate tubes completely and what's left is STILL too long.  :rolleyes: It's a damn sight better though, easily fixable, and actually means that someone might see the flameholders after you've struggled to paint them. So I shall, be building it as per Exhibit B below, but with the lips sanded off:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FSu-15nozzles2.jpg&hash=cdd699117c101bac44640f59967014f1342f0715) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Su-15nozzles2.jpg.html)


Tomorrow I'm off to get some cockpit paint. I had thought it would be the usual lurid turquoise colour favoured by the Russians, so I went looking for mixing intructions. It turns out that there are a huge number of real life variations on this colour and everybody has a favorite shade or mix, but I then found out that Su-15s didn;t generally use it, and actually had a more muted blue-grey shade, which I reckon is a dead ringer for RLM 78 Himmelblau in the new Humbrol RLM range.

Good walkaround of a somewhat dilapidated Su-15 single-seater here: http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/avia/rus/sukhoi/su-15tm/index.htm

Cool project!  :thumbsup:

That is a cool project ! That's one aeroplane I love the look at....so nice yet so ugly !

And Holy ! Nice work by that Rato guy....and in 72nd scale ? Woah..... :banghead: :thumbsup:

Quote from: Captain Canada on May 13, 2014, 06:51:12 PM
That is a cool project ! That's one aeroplane I love the look at....so nice yet so ugly !

And Holy ! Nice work by that Rato guy....and in 72nd scale ? Woah..... :banghead: :thumbsup:

Indeed. I'm toying with the idea of copying his air intake mod, not so much for accuracy as ease. Using the standard "buckets" that go on the back of the intakes would mean you'd have to paint a black "bulkhead" at the bottom of a silver "tube", whereas having the end piece separate means you can paint it black separately before joinnig them up. And I have black plastic....

It was the Russians that came up with with the colour schemes used by the Americans worn by their Aggressor Units. The Russians used the Mig-21 through to the Su-27 on their Aggressor Units.
Interesting twist.

Didn't know they had one at all, but having just gone looking for it: yup!

http://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2013/08/12/soviet-aggressor-program/

Nice one McColm: looks like my "Phantomski" will fit right in!  :thumbsup:

I've seen drawings of what the Russians thought the F-4 Phantom looked like, you're not that far away with your build. Just wish I'd hasn't sold the magazine I saw it in.

Okay, well progress has been painfully slow here, but it is being made. This is the first Trumpeter kit I've actually made, and all I can say is that if I'd actually paid full price for this one, I'd be pretty hacked off by now....  Just about every pair of parts that look nicely engineered don't actually fit together when you try them, and locating pins and slots don't actually align things where they need to be aligned....  :banghead:

Anyway, first a reasonable success story: the intake boxes.

1. I cut the back off the closed intake trunk and stuck it on further back as a spacer:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FIntakebox1.jpg&hash=8026952292f40cd631f3db31614a11082240a922) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Intakebox1.jpg.html)


2. I added two pieces of black plasticard plus lots of spacers to the top and bottom surfaces, then glued an outer piece in at an angle, resting on the intake trunk back plate:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FIntakebox2.jpg&hash=15d5b7fefe5dc89cfccbaca5317d57d5aaa877aa) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Intakebox2.jpg.html)


3. When that was all dry, I added an oversize inner wall that covered the lot:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FIntakebox3.jpg&hash=3f09c9dfc2b6dd79bd999a4ca158a519b43f97cc) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Intakebox3.jpg.html)

The result is that the intakes "fade off into blackness" instead of stopping at a black wall too near the front.

BTW, yes, that's the remains of a Beatties price sticker on the black plastic. That means this piece must have been sat in my old modelling kit, then various junk boxes, then my new modelling kit, for over 25 years, 'cos Beatties are long gone, sadly.

Next up: wings.

They look good, with the trailing edge being moulded in one piece with the lower surfaces, and the upper surface meeting it at the "natural" panel/control surface line, which is pretty complicated. The only problem is: the upper and lower didn't meet at the line: the uppeer was oversize and needed fiddly filing down in order to fit.

Then when the upper and lower fitted along the line, the next problem cropped up. The very tip of the trailing edge is not moulded in one piece with the lower surface, it's split top and bottom, and the top is much too thick. You probably wouldn't notice this if the rest of the trailing edge wasn't so fine, of course.... :banghead:  So that needed lots of careful sanding too, which then revealed the next problem...

The mating face of the upper right wing surface was convex, so no matter how you fettled the joint line, it still wouldn't sit down onto the lower surface properly. Much more sanding and much clamping:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FWings1.jpg&hash=4b063ff33d50690d657751a133f6a841bc835a29) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Wings1.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FWings2.jpg&hash=e9b8c195bce351e9a74f47cdd3984270daef1f94) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Wings2.jpg.html)  

Cockpits:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FCockpitscomplete.jpg&hash=3447c74d5cc18198fd6e6fb9a2179b0f7695ce47) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Cockpitscomplete.jpg.html)

Doesn't look too bad now, but it's been a fiddle to say the least.

1. The seats are a decent shape, but lack both straps and cushions, so I made then out of masking tape and little squares of Evergreen respectively. Actually the lack of cushions worked out quite well, since the straps could be attached to their backs and then wrapped around the front, giving convincing routing.

2. The support pegs for the tubs are odd. The front one has vertical grooves on the tub which lock into ridges on the fuselage. This would be perfect if the tub had to be suspended catilever fashion, but since it sits on the nose gear bay, it's a bit redundant. The rear tub however, does hang catinlever-fashion between the air intakes, so it could really use the groove system, however what it actually gets is a pin underneath the floor and a "stop" in front of the bulkhead. No positive location and no support for the back end, which means there's a distinct risk it could come unglued and fall backwards after the fuselage halves are joined. To prevent this, I added the vertical bar you can see under the back of it from sprue.

3. Having glued the seats, dashboards and sticks in, I then put the cockpit "deck" on and discovered that the rear seat was crooked (my fault), the front seat was way too low (Trumpeter's fault) and both dashboards were at the wrong angle (Trumpeter's fault again: no positive location). so I had to pull both seat and the rear dash out again: luckily then came away from the glue without damage. I shimmed the front seat up by nearly 2mm to get the pilot's eye-line at least over the sill. It still looks wrong to me, but I don't want to go any higher due to canopy clearance.

Your'e getting there mate

Oooh! How did i miss this till now!
Had a similar thought last year, using the PM kit. Was going to do a North American A-5 Vigilante scheme.
Gray, white, colourful splashes. As usual, put on the long finger. Will be following this. :thumbsup:

Quote from: major on May 22, 2014, 09:46:08 AM
Oooh! How did i miss this till now!
Had a similar thought last year, using the PM kit. Was going to do a North American A-5 Vigilante scheme.
Gray, white, colourful splashes. As usual, put on the long finger. Will be following this. :thumbsup:

Ironically, I have several of the PM kits and was going to use one for this, then I saw the Trumpeter one going cheap at the Huddersfield show, and since it was the same money as I'd just sold the Flagon A kit for, it seemed a fair swap. Beginning to wish I'd stuck with the PM one now....

Have to say, i kinda like the PM kits, coz you know what you're getting into. Nothing a hacksaw, and angle grinder and a tub of auto filler wouldn't cure!
And, at the end, you know you've made somthing out of it! :lol:

Slow progress continues. I'm still trying to get the fuselage looking half-decent: the "deck" around the cockpits and the similar one around the nosewheel bay have very thin, bendy sides, and it's very easy to get them misaligned. The latter needed a shim under one edge as well.

I tried to use Humbrol polishable steel on the tail fairing, but it didn't stick properly without an undercoat, so I've sanded it back and undercoated it with rattle-can grey.

Wheel hubs have been masked with Eduard masks and painted green: probably need two coats. It's quite hard to get the masks on straight becuase they're so thin that they distort easily. I don't know why they don't make the outer diameter bigger so they're more stable: it's only the inner diameter than actually matters anyway.

Two sets of "Fakewinders" currently have their white paint drying. These are nominally 1/100th items from a Hobby Model Kits F-15: they're awful, but that's exactly what I need.... :wacko: In case you're wondering, the Su-15UP can't just carry a pair of AA-2 Atolls on the inner wing pylons, because the pylons are too close to the fuselage and you can't move them further outboard because the undercarriage bays come close to the leading edge. 

Okay, changed the name to Su-15MV (Modyeliruyemyiy Vrag = Simulated Enemy) on the advice of Old Wombat: thanks again!

STILL mucking about with the fuselage...

Not convinced that the nosewheel deck is blended in properly, but I'm sick of messing with it...

Intakes and splitters needed shimming out with a layer of plasticard to avoid a step in the outside line of the fuselage.

The fin is located with two pins, and Sod's Law, one of them is so far forward that it's in the bit I'm going to have to cut off to blend in the new spine. So I drilled the spine to take a new pin and drilled the fuselage to match... and the seam split.  :banghead: So it's back in clamps with more glue in it.....

Looking forward to seeing more of this - but...do you think that, now you've used so much glue on it, inside the fuselage is a perfectly formed replica of the kit made entirely from poly cement... :wacko:

Don't know about that, but I reckon if I took a pic of the inside of it I could get Evergreen to sponsor me...

Speaking of which: the lower rear fuselage seam cracked again while I was trying to sort other stuff out... :banghead: I think the problem is that there's a long, straight run with not enough location pegs in it, so it can bow between the pegs. Anyway, had a brainwave. I'm trying to build it with the nozzle fairing separate until the end so that I can give the latter a nice metallic finish, so looking down the back end at the inside of the split seam, I realised that I could actually coat a long, flat piece of evergreen with glue and put in in with tweezers to support the joint. Worked like a charm.... :thumbsup:

Good job I had that to cheer me up because the next problem was the fin:

1. It's own location lugs are such a slack fit in their hole that your could put it on with about 3 deg bias either way if you wern't careful. Not a major problem, but not impressive.

2. Although it doesn't show up well in pics, the rear fuselage actually has a very slight "figure 8" shape to it, so the fin sits in a slight "valley". Shouldn't have been a problem.... but then Trumpeter made the curvature of the two fuselage halves different.... :banghead: The result is that if you just glue the fin with it's base flat to the surface, it ends up leaning to the right at about 10 deg, and of course, the slack mounting pegs are no help at all. Cue much fettling of the fuselage and the fin..... :rolleyes:

The more I read of this build the more I worry about even opening the box of the only Trumpeter kit I have, their RA-5C Vigilante.....  :unsure:

Quote from: PR19_Kit on May 25, 2014, 04:55:44 AM
The more I read of this build the more I worry about even opening the box of the only Trumpeter kit I have, their RA-5C Vigilante.....  :unsure:

From what I read on the web, they're very variable. For instance, the Shenyang J-8II, which is a very similar aircraft, is apparently very good, while the FBC-1 Flying Leopard has the whole forward fuselage too deep by about 15% !!!

I think the trick is:

1. Do the research. The kit may be very accurate or it may be rubbish. Decide what you want to fix or leave and go from there. For instance, the size and shape of the radomes on all the Su-15 kits have been criticised and there are aftermarket resin ones to correct them. The only reason I'm not using one of those is that mine has a non-standard nose anyway.

2. Don't be fooled by the presentation. They look lovely in the box, and all the surface detail gives the impression of quality, but there's a fair chance it's flat wrong or badly researched, and that the actual engineering fails when you start putting the pieces together. As others have remarked, you can't avoid the impression sometimes that nobody ever tried to build a test shot before they put it into mass production.

TEST FIT EVERYTHING, and be prepared to put in extra bracing, extra location pegs/plates, and do a lot of filing and sanding to make things actually fit or be the right shape.


This build of the RA-5C looks hauntingly familiar  :rolleyes: : http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27739-trumpeter-172-ra-5c-vigilante/

Quote from: Weaver on May 25, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
2. Don't be fooled by the presentation. They look lovely in the box, and all the surface detail gives the impression of quality, but there's a fair chance it's flat wrong or badly researched,

Absolutely. I've a couple that are stunners until you look a little more deeply and try a test fit. Others on the other hand are good kits

Quote from: Weaver on May 25, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
This build of the RA-5C looks hauntingly familiar  :rolleyes: : http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27739-trumpeter-172-ra-5c-vigilante/

I'm starting to think that I should look out my long lost Airfix or Hasegawa Vigis now!

Y'know, you'd think that when you have a radome with a circular base, a lip and two tabs, you couldn't really go wrong, could you? Ah, but Trumpeter are smarter than that...... This radome clicks and "locks" in four different positions: way to far to one side, slightly to far to the other side, slightly high and spot on. Choosing which you want is complicated by the fact that the fuselage bulge leading up to the radome is too big on one side, so there's going to be a step no matter what you do.... Cue more fetting...... :rolleyes:

Still, apart from that, progress is being made. The base of the spine fairing is currently setting in the vice, I've made the chin fairing in an easier way than I'd anticpated, and I've found a perfect glass "pimple" to be the camera lens in it's nose.

Piccies in a bit.

Fuselage, spine base (long stepped piece), undernose fairing (tapered tube) and spine (folded rectangular sheet). The spine is now sat in the vice having the first section glued to the base: it's got to be glued in seactions and clamped because it's bent into a U-shape (so it's trying to spring back) and it has to change section halfway to go from "canopy section" to "fin section".

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FFuselagemods.jpg&hash=9fa3f483ae22e200e63713bfe638251bf9306ea8) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Fuselagemods.jpg.html)


Nose wheel bay. The white line is the fillet I had to add to get the thing to sit level with the surface.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fnosewheelbay.jpg&hash=1d270b543444870bce82169829673e8af7f7d546) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/nosewheelbay.jpg.html)


Underwing tanks. The idea is that the Su-15MV will carry empty tanks on the outboard wing pylons (empty because those pylons arn't plumbed for fuel) in order to simulate the outline of Phantom. However, the standard tanks have fins and would protrude behind the trailing edge, neither of which is true for Phantom tanks, so they're being "bob-tailed" by having their tail cones and fins removed. The blanking piece is a pivot pin from the Airfix Bloodhound. The story is that the protruding rod in the middle is a smoke can, triggered using the missile wiring, which is used to show when the aircraft has been hit.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FIMG_6455.jpg&hash=d6ceb52b03df6d4fcc647d7254436eec96005911) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/IMG_6455.jpg.html)

Quote from: NARSES2 on May 25, 2014, 08:41:13 AM

Quote from: Weaver on May 25, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
2. Don't be fooled by the presentation. They look lovely in the box, and all the surface detail gives the impression of quality, but there's a fair chance it's flat wrong or badly researched,

Absolutely. I've a couple that are stunners until you look a little more deeply and try a test fit. Others on the other hand are good kits

I've also gpt a Trumpeter Vigi to build. you lot are beginning to scare me... :o

Quote from: lancer on May 27, 2014, 11:27:30 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on May 25, 2014, 08:41:13 AM

Quote from: Weaver on May 25, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
2. Don't be fooled by the presentation. They look lovely in the box, and all the surface detail gives the impression of quality, but there's a fair chance it's flat wrong or badly researched,

Absolutely. I've a couple that are stunners until you look a little more deeply and try a test fit. Others on the other hand are good kits

I've also gpt a Trumpeter Vigi to build. you lot are beginning to scare me... :o

Have a look at that Britmodeller build I linked to. The Vigi is better than the Su-15 and gripes aside, it seems perfectly possible to make a decent model from it. I think, to be fair, that if these were 40-year old Airfix molds, everone would shrug their shoulder and put up with it. What's irritating is that the Trumpy ones were done in the last few years when, we keep being told, CAD/CAM and slide molds have made everything perfect. Trumpy however, (and DML in all fairness) seem to be on a mission to remind us of the CICO principle of computing: Crap In, Crap Out.

Well, you can't really fault them for their efforts...they seem to have tried really hard to mess it up!

Okay, some half-decent progress.... :thumbsup:

Fuselage mods:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FFusemods2.jpg&hash=d036dcf977d2f277bb108f380d962d0b59b0c32b) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Fusemods2.jpg.html)

Spine went on with much fettling. It's a strip of thin plasticard bent into an arch-section over a base of Evergreen strip that tapers halfway. Quite pleased with it now, although I thought at one point I'd screwed it up. I don't want it to fit too perfectly or look too smooth, because the real thing would be something knocked up by hand for half-a-dozen aircraft at most, and looking how rough some of the things were that were fitted to all the production aircraft.... :blink:

The usual gothic collection of air scoops have bene added too. You really do have to wonder how much faster these things could go without them... Most of them went on okay: I drilled out the holes in the little ones at the back, which seem to be a bit too prominent, comparing them with photographs. The big ones over the wing roots were a problem. They're made in two pieces: a wedge-shaped base and then the scoop itself. The scoop sits partly on the wedge and partly on the fuselage, so it's base needs to be at two angles, which Trumpeter got right. What they didn't get right was that it also needs a step in it to deal with the thickness of the wedge, so I had to put that in myself, which is a right fiddle given that these bits are barely big enough to hold.


Nose mods:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FNosemods.jpg&hash=c3d1e0d34990950bd7394566ed72340f9f5f2426) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Nosemods.jpg.html)

I was going to do a more elaborate structure than this, but when I test-fitted it, I realised it was too much. This partly tapered tube was originally made for a different version of the spine, so that was a nice bit of recycling. It will eventually have a window on the front of it for a camera that records the mock combats. The back end of it was an interesting design problem. On the Phantom, the nosewheel bay has a single-piece side-opening door, so they just stuck a half-cone fairing on the door. On the Su-15, the nosewheel bay has left and right doors, and they have irregular bulges in them for the twin-wheel nosegear (which was added in the Su-15TM version). I though there was too much chance of quarter-cone additions not meeting properly and fouling the operation of the doors, so my solution is to have a triangular "fin" attached to the edge of one door which gives the right profile when it's closed.

On the standard aircraft, this area also has a hockey-stick aerial and (according to Trumpeter, but I can't find a real-world pic of it) a small pod that looks like an IRST sensor. I've left the IRST pod off, since the F-4E that's being simulated didn't have one, and stuck the hockey-stick on off-centre in about the same place the pod would have been: pics on the web seem to show it in about this location anyway.

Wings on, canopy on (all four parts of it) canopy masks on, and it's now in paint:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fwingson.jpg&hash=97a6f5241cbecb1b3387a69368c0905edd381a3a) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/wingson.jpg.html)


I realised there was a problem with my plan to carry empty drop tanks on the wing pylons, namely that the tanks have holes to fit on the fuselage pylons' pegs, but the wing pylons have ridges to fit in grooves in the missile bodies. Solution: cut the ridges off the wing pylond and drill them for wires. The next problem was that the pylons are very thin, so the thickest wire I could fit into them was still way too small for the holes in the tanks. the solution to that was to glue solid Evergreen rod into the holes, let it dry properly, then drill it to the right size for the wires:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Ftankmods.jpg&hash=ca0661a30f9c3eee26d1df38264628b573849919) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/tankmods.jpg.html)

The spine looks good- keep it up!  Not much wing on her- must have been a ground gripper.....

-Dave

That looking rather tasty now its assembled  :thumbsup:, just had a thought you could do it an Aggressor in US Navy style scheme as the Soviets would have face USN types as well (opens the options for a sister build to go alongside the first  ;) )

Quote from: Thorvic on June 01, 2014, 02:16:37 AM
That looking rather tasty now its assembled  :thumbsup:, just had a thought you could do it an Aggressor in US Navy style scheme as the Soviets would have face USN types as well (opens the options for a sister build to go alongside the first  ;) )

Cheers!

That crossed my mind too: easier paint but more work in the decals. I'm working on the assumption that they wouldn't just copy actual markings and codes, but would go for "in the style of".

Quote from: sandiego89 on May 31, 2014, 07:02:20 PM
The spine looks good- keep it up!  Not much wing on her- must have been a ground gripper.....

-Dave

It's quite interesting when you look at the numbers:

Su-15:

Wing Area : 394 sq.ft
Empty Weight : 23,973 lb
Loaded Weight : 37,920 lb
Wing Loading : 61 - 97 lb/sq.ft


F-4E:

Wing Area : 530 sq.ft
Empty Weight : 30,328 lb
Loaded Weight : 41,500 lb
MTO Weight : 61,795 lb
Wing Loading : 58 - 117 lb/sq.ft


So the Su-15 is in the right ball park to simulate the F-4E. Of course, wing loading is not the whole story, but then no aircraft is a perfect simulator of any other. The Su-25 had a "hot ship" reputation, but my impression is that that was mostly down to it's landing and take-off performance, which is not surprising when you consider that it had roughly the same wing loading as the F-4 but no slats, much less flap area and no blowing.

First paint. Black on the nose and canopy, silver on the rear fuselage:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fpaint1.jpg&hash=fa0f6b2b3a86c0e10a2c1ae77b42bb1bb2bf72b1) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/paint1.jpg.html)


First masking. Nose cone, ventral fairing tip, part of the canopy frames (to make it look more like an F-4), anti-slip panels on the intakes, lower rear fuselage:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2Fmask1.jpg&hash=1fde7018531f1cc392c30ecd67bd852fdb56f85e) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/mask1.jpg.html)


Now got a coat of grey undercoat drying.

All over grey undercoat.

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This is a car paint undercoat, but it's pretty close to Hu.64, which the instructions for my old Airfix F-4 specify for the underside. I think it's way to dark, so I'm going to do the underside with Hu.147 which is much lighter.

Why did you paint the back and silver on before you did the grey primer?

I wanted to paint the black radome first and then mask it so that the mask was on the "narrow" end of the cone and got a better seal. I thought the grey primer might be okay as the underside colour and if that had been the case, then that would have been the right way round to do things. As it's turned out, I'm spraying a lighter shade on the underside, so I could have done all-primer first, then the black, then the mask.

The silver was just a case of exploiting the opportunity to get two colours on in the same session since they were at opposite ends of the plane.

Well that was an entertaining hour, and mostly my fault... :rolleyes:

Went to have a look at the first coat of Hu.147 on the parts, and it wasn't too good. I'd had the impression while I was spraying it that it wasn't covering too well, so I'd assumed it was because the undercoat was darker. However, thinking back over what I'd done, I suddenly realised that I'd made a mistake with the paint/thinner ratio and it was actually far too thin.

Jolly good, problem solved, got the bottle of too-thin grey and put a load more paint and thinners in it in much thicker proportions, picked up the can of cheap, nasty thinners to clean the syringe with, and dropped it....... right on the open jar of mixed paint, which went 50% on me, 50% on the floor..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

So now I have a fetching grey leg and no paint. Cleaned up, then checked the local small hobby shops, only to find that neither of them is open today (and one of them's closing.... ). Sat contemplating whether to spend fuel and parking money to go to Hobbycraft or wait 24 hours, when a thought struck me. When I did the Migina, I bought tins of just about every shade of grey, so maybe there was a tin of Hu.147 at the back of the drawer.

Success, there was a tin! Mind you, the five year old tin of Hu.147 wasn't exactly the same colour as the new tin of Hu.147, but it's good enough when you're mixing... :rolleyes: So I made up another batch of thicker paint, and started spraying. Doing the misc bits, it was fine, but when I started doing the actual undersides, it didn't seem to be covering again. Played about with pressure and paint flow, changed the angle I was holding the brush, and it suddenly decided to feed again (it hadn't been before, no idea why...) so now I have a lovely paint run under the right wing root..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Apart for the paint run (which is fixable) it's looking okay now, but sheesh.... :rolleyes:

(and no, I don't sell tickets.....)

If it was easy everyone would do it...........  ;D

Lower surfaces masked off and a coat of tan currently drying. Rather pleased with how it looks.

Basic cammo done, and I have to say, I'm rather pleased with this. No runs, very little touch-up needed, the only minor problem is that I've managed to snap off the pitot tube base on the left wing, but that may not have worked out anyway.


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(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FCammo2.jpg&hash=bf804b1cbfe33074648aaa0561fc24ecc67a8e7e) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Cammo2.jpg.html)


The silver bit on the rear fuselage is going to be a faux Phantom "scallop". More work to do on that yet.

The grey bits over the wing roots and the wing fences are designed to look like the underside of the Phantom's dihedral outer wings.

The grey tip to the fin will end up looking like a USAF-style stripe once the fin-tip aerial is painting the standard Russian green.

There is still some masking on the canopy because there are clear coats to come yet. The idea is that there are black-painted areas on the frame to make them look bigger and less framed when seen from above.

Just realised I've forgotten to paint the topsides of the drop tanks.... :rolleyes:

Wow thats looking really good now its painted, that shot looking from the aft qtr showing the tan side of the long nose also made me think of the Thunderchief as well as the Phantom  :thumbsup:.

Look forward to seeing this one finished and i guess it leaves it open to do a variety of Soviet Aggressors  ;D

Quote from: Thorvic on June 07, 2014, 02:04:31 AM
Wow thats looking really good now its painted, that shot looking from the aft qtr showing the tan side of the long nose also made me think of the Thunderchief as well as the Phantom  :thumbsup:.

Very much reminds me of a Thunderchief

Indeed, it looks very nice with the SEA camo (as most things do).

Cheers,

Logan

Quote from: Logan Hartke on June 07, 2014, 10:22:06 AM
Indeed, it looks very nice with the SEA camo (as most things do).

Cheers,

Logan

Indeed it is "one of those camo schemes" as is the RAF SEAC one and that was SE Asia as well. Must be the water ?  ;D

Progress is being made on this, but very slow. Serious case of stuck mojo last week. Got up full of resolution yesterday... then spent all day replacing a leaking tap. Today: toothache..... :banghead:

Nevertheless, touch-up painting has now been done. Gloss coat tomorrow, then decals.

Hmm - NEVER publish a schedule: freakin' fatal.......... :banghead: :rolleyes:

Decalling is now under way and going well. :thumbsup:

Oh wow...now this is something ! Always loved the look of that aeroplane....so tough yet somehow, elegant ? Well, maybe that's pushing it but there's just something about that shape. Looks awesome in your camo scheme. Can't wait to see what "more work" will bring !

:cheers:

Weeeell, the decalling was going well while I stuck firmly to the miscellaneous collection of aftermarket stuff and 10 year old leftover I was using. Then I started using the brand new ones that came with the kit.... :banghead:

1. most of the stencilling and warning notices are too big, and many don't fit where they're supposed to,

2. the red notices are a brilliant orangy bright red that outshines the low-vis red stars I was so pleased with myself for having found (MiG-37 Ferret),

3. the decals are very thin, but have very strong and fast-setting adhesive, which means they easily wrap around or tuck under and then can't be sorted out before they dry.

Nice to know that all the Trumpeter bits of this build are up to a consistent standard...... :rolleyes:

Still decalling......... I keep getting eye strain and having to stop and there are so many freakin' stencils....

Just found ANOTHER couple of errors:

1. There are seven identical small warning signs down each side of the lower fuselage. Guess how many there are on the decal sheet? Thirteen........ :banghead:

2. There's a similar but different warning sign on the underside that doesn't have a numbered arrow pointing to it on the paint/decal artwork. Since this artwork is too small and indistinct for placing these things and since the sign is yellow on silver, it's very easy to miss it.

Yay - decalling as done as it's ever going to be. :thumbsup:

Now some sleep and then time for the dangly bits (u/c and stores!!!!)

Quote from: Weaver on June 07, 2014, 01:54:41 AM
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FCammo1.jpg&hash=45721b57611237c290b8ed68ec499d876b65a43a) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Cammo1.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FCammo2.jpg&hash=bf804b1cbfe33074648aaa0561fc24ecc67a8e7e) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Cammo2.jpg.html)

Picture caught my eye as I noticed the F-4C instructions in the background.  I've the remnants of an old Airfix F-4 in the scrap box and I've been toying with the idea of grafting the front end of it into a cheapo PM Flagon.  Does anyone know how close the fuselage diameters of the real F-4 and the real Flagon are, please, so I can finally decide whether to take a Quixotic tilt at this particular modeling windmill or consign the idea to the dustbin of seemingly good but actually bad ideas?

Quote from: kitbasher on June 29, 2014, 03:19:09 AM
Does anyone know how close the fuselage diameters of the real F-4 and the real Flagon are, please, so I can finally decide whether to take a Quixotic tilt at this particular modeling windmill or consign the idea to the dustbin of seemingly good but actually bad ideas?

They don't match that well Dave. The PM Flagon measures 18 mm wide at the cockpit and 28 mm wide across the intakes, whereas a Fujimi Phantom F3 measures 21 mm across the cockpit and 37 mm across the intakes.

It could mean a LOT of styrene packing pieces and a mega PSR session.

I concur. The Trumpy Flagon is slightly different to the PM one, but if anything it's smaller and thereby even less helpful. The Flagon is actually a lot slimmer than it looks in the cockpit area: the nose cone is very heavily bulged, and I think that creates some kind of optical illusion.

Height-wise, the Phantom is also much deeper at the rear cockpit bulkhead becuase the seats are stepped whereas the Flagon's arn't. Comparing the PM Flagon and Airfix Phantom at the intake step (i.e. the one moulded into the fuselage), the Flagon is 19mm deep whereas the Phantom is 27mm.

Thank you gentlemen.  Idea consigned to the dustbin of seemingly good but actually bad ideas.

I think my Su-15 itch will have to be scratched by a take on Dizzyfugu's Hawker Harpy.

IT'S FREAKIN' FINISHED!!!!!

Well, to the point where I can photograph it tomorrow and write it up, anyway. Might do a few tweaks after that...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FLowrightfront.jpg&hash=9e322ec787a100648a76f6a2d6f4e28b5c6537e9) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Lowrightfront.jpg.html)

The Soviet aggressor program remains shrouded in mystery and little hard information has been released about it even since the end of the Cold War. What is known is that it started in the early 1970s, prompted by the poor performance of Soviet-supplied aircraft in Vietnam and the Middle East, and inspired by the equivalent American TOP GUN and RED FLAG programmes. There seem to have been several units engaged in this activity,  since published photographs of alleged "aggressor" aircraft don't all match up to the only semi-official account that's been published, that of the 1521st Airbase unit at Maryy-1 airbase in Turkmenistan.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FMidLeftFront.jpg&hash=8ac0d2fb28ac023564d5341b004433871956cc23) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/MidLeftFront.jpg.html)

The aircraft modelled here appeared briefly at the Central Air Force museum at Monino near Moscow in 1998, but was subsequently removed shortly after pictures of it were published in Western journals. According to the information plaque, it was designated Su-15MV, the MV standing for Modyeliruyemyiy Vrag which translates as "simulated enemy". No separate NATO ASCC reporting name was ever assigned to it. There is no mention of Su-15s of any kind in the history of the 1521st, and their modus operandi seems to have been to use standard Soviet aircraft with limited modifications even as regards paintwork,  let alone the elaborate modifications seen on this aircraft. It may be that it was used by the 1521st but not disclosed in their history, or that it was used by a different unit altogether, or that it was a prototype that didn't proceed any further. Both Sukhoi and the modern Russian Air Force remain tight-lipped on the matter.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FMidRightrear.jpg&hash=ec67791c0b9e0a0690c5a976e8f14ebf88875e76) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/MidRightrear.jpg.html)

The aircraft is based on a two-seat Su-15UM Flagon-G trainer. It has non-standard spine and chin fairings, under-sized fake Sidewinders on the inboard wing pylons, non-standard tanks on the (dry) outboard pylons and an elaborate paint job which not only replicates the USAF South East Asia camouflage scheme, but also attempts to create, at least from a distance, the impression of undercut engine nozzles and the corresponding rear fuselage shape. Most observers conclude from this that the Su-15 MV was a fairly sophisticated attempt to simulate the USAF's McDonnell-Douglas F-4E Phantom II, which saw extensive use in both Vietnam and the Yom Kippur war. The current whereabouts of this airframe, and any others that might have been built, remain unknown.


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The tail codes create the impression of a USAF aircraft from a distance, but actually consist of a number (presumably the "Bort" number, since this doesn't appear anywhere else on the aircraft) instead of a base code, and the letters CCCP. The latter may have been "compensation" for the lack of the customary red star. Interestingly, the 1521st Airbase Unit seem to have picked up on this USAF practice, but published pictures of their aircraft show a fake base code of AM ("Aviabaza Maryy") instead. Some observers have used this as evidence that the Su-15MV was never used by that unit.


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This spine fairing appears to have no purpose and is quite crudely made from a single sheet of aluminium. It was probably intended to replicate the silhouette of the F-4 Phantom.


(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FLowcamera.jpg&hash=448047c6fd4b47580b8f1e9ebdd27153ffac3623) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Lowcamera.jpg.html)
This tube under the chin is presumably also for silhouette purposes, in this case to simulate the gun fairing of an F-4E Phantom. A much smaller radome is painted onto the original Su-15 one, again aping the American aircraft. However the tube also has a glass lens at it's front end, which has lead to some speculation that it may have held the "Hollywood" camera referred to in passing by some Russian pilots. Apparently being "big in Hollywood" or a "Hollywood star" was a jibe used to tease pilots who appeared in gun camera film too often. The exact identity of this camera has never been established. Another possibility was that it held an IR sensor intended to simulate the lock-on of  a Sidewinder.


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The "Sidewinders" under the aircraft's wing are non-functional fakes, being about 30% under-sized and clearly made from fibreglass mouldings. This may have been done because of the very limited clearance around the Su-15's inboard pylon, which normally holds a single R-60 (AA-8 Aphid). The drop tanks are also presumed to be non-functional, since there has never been any indication that the Su-15's outer pylons were plumbed for fuel.


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The cockpit canopy of the standard Su-15UM has the heavy framing typical of Soviet aircraft of the period. On the Su-15MV, areas of this framing have been painted black, presumably to make the cockpit area more closely resemble the less obstructed canopies of the Phantom.  



The Model

Kit : Trumpeter 1/72nd scale Su-15UM
Fakewinders : from Model Hobby Kits 1/100th F-15 Eagle
Drop tanks : kit ones with tails cut off
Chin Fairing : Evergreen tube with camera lens from spare Sea Harrier (?) clear sprue
Spine : Folded Evergreen sheet over square and round rod formers
Paint : Humbrol enamels, sprayed and brushed.
Decals : tail codes from Fantasy Printshop sheets, Soviet "shields" from ICM Beriev Be-4, low-vis red stars from Italeri MiG-37 "Ferret", stars'n'bars cut up from Revellobox Meteor NF.11 Netherlands markings with Fantasy Printshop stars. All the rest from the Su-15 kit.

Best bits : airbrushed worked perfectly, tail codes look good, overall look is right, particularly from a distance (which is how it should be).

Worst bit : the disconnect between how good the Trumpter kit looks in the box and how bad it is to actually build. If it had been a cheap cr4p kit that I'd bought for £5 then it wouldn't have hurt so much....

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowall1.jpg&hash=bc7e49c0e620c9bdc28fd79a69ce722b5679985b) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Belowall1.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowtank.jpg&hash=da9f5a020e177a682c3f757407985dfabf3be81a) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Belowtank.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowMissiles.jpg&hash=a0b7aadca247f74d819ae67efc25db0be23dd07d) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/BelowMissiles.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowengines.jpg&hash=cb94dbd3fdd6b4bc2cc648c7428ccd13c17956b6) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Belowengines.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowcamera.jpg&hash=5b39cff0cac25a15e74999d299964a64c1c81e16) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Belowcamera.jpg.html)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FBelowall2.jpg&hash=606552d35c530ce04556612cab6a856b87ec6063) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/Belowall2.jpg.html)


Thanks to all for the help, support and encouragement.  :thumbsup: :bow:

I might do some more work on this one yet (matt coat, weathering) and I'm not best pleased with the photos either, but I wanted to get something posted before the deadline.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FSu-15%2520UP%2FHighLeftfront.jpg&hash=06b38baf3dd4c456a8177583ad9b493b24ffe196) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hws5mp/media/The%20Whiffery/Su-15%20UP/HighLeftfront.jpg.html)

I REALLY like that. Very nice, well done.

Cheers,

Logan

Very impressive :thumbsup:

When you started, I wasn't convinced that this would look much different from an Su-15 in Soviet tactical camouflage, but I was wrong - this really could be an aggressor Phantom look-a-like
:cheers:

Great build  :thumbsup:

Expect the unexpected which it was.

Gondor

That's the BUSINESS Weaver!  :thumbsup: :bow:

The backstory is great too, seriously believable.

That really does look good

Cheers folks - much appreciated.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 30, 2014, 03:11:47 PM
The backstory is great too, seriously believable.

A good mystery is always better than a bad explanation..... ;)

Love it, just have to remind myself it is a Whif  :thumbsup:

Cracking build H.......love it........ :thumbsup:

Quote from: PR19_Kit on June 30, 2014, 03:11:47 PM
That's the BUSINESS Weaver!  :thumbsup: :bow:

The backstory is great too, seriously believable.

What the gentleman in the hat said! :bow:

Love it.  :thumbsup:

Which gets me thinking of a group build for aggressor whifs.

That SEA scheme looks SO cool on the Su-15!  :thumbsup:

VERY nicely done, surprising, in a positive way!

Now I know what the theme is (Soviet Aggressor) and please don't take this the wrong way, but.............

......it makes me think of a Wild Weasel F-105F.  :thumbsup:

thats a cracking build :)
if i squint at the su15 it almost looks like a russian tsr2

Quote from: kitbasher on July 19, 2014, 07:34:01 AM
Now I know what the theme is (Soviet Aggressor) and please don't take this the wrong way, but.............

......it makes me think of a Wild Weasel F-105F.  :thumbsup:

Cheers!

You're quite right: an Su-15MV could play a Thud by just changing the paint scheme a bit. Lose the "undercut nozzles" stuff and use sky blue to try to make the wings look swept with Ferri intakes. My other candidate for that job, in terms of low-level performance and rough shape, would be an Su-7, but I don't know how you'd deal with the nose intake. orf course for this job, you're not trying to make an exact visual copy of the enemy plane, just soemthing that can play the part in air combat. The Su-15MV is probably about as far as anyone would go in real life: after all, real US and Soviet aggressors don't have ANY physical vismods, and an F-5 looks nothing like a MiG-21.

Cheers folks! As ever, photographs flatter to deceive, but I am please with the outcome and grateful that you approve.

Quote from: eatthis on July 19, 2014, 09:34:07 AM
thats a cracking build :)
if i squint at the su15 it almost looks like a russian tsr2

Indeed. IIRC, wasn't there an Su-24 prototype that had fixed delta wing and two lift jets behind the cockpit for STOL? That would look even more like a TSR-2.

Wow ! Nice work Weaver ! Sure looks the part with all the extra 'americanised' additions ! Lovely paintwork as well....very well done !

:cheers:

Cheers Cap'n!

I'm toying with the idea of modifying this slightly. When I did it, I was under the impression that Su-15s could only carry a single R-60 on each inboard pylon, so it'd need the "fakewinders" to get the right look. However, I've now discovered that Su-15s can, in fact carry two R-60s on each inboard pylon, using the T-shaped APU-60-II launch rail most often seen under MiG-23s. This looks so nearly right that it'd be madness not to use it, so the Fakewinders have lost credibility. Furthermore there's a finless acquisition round version of the Aphid, and R.V. do a set of four R-60s plus two APU-60-IIs which have separate PE fins, so it'd be easy to leave them off one missile and mark them up as three inerts (black stripes) plus one acquisition round (red stripes).

What do you think?

(Note: this won't happen immediately and shouldn't affect the Za Rodinu TB)

What do I think ? Go for it  :thumbsup: