I must have every Harrier book known to man in my library and since Telford I've been ploughing through them one by one. My target was to find a colour photo of the first two seat Harrier, the private venture Mk 52 G-VTOL in it's original red/white/blue colour scheme with its two big wing tanks. Can I find one? Can I THUMP! :banghead:
I've searched the Net as well but all that show up are the aircraft in its two later schemes, the 'Middle East' sand and dark earth scheme and the later grey/white 'Skyhook' scheme.
So does anyone have such a pic, or could tell me where to find one please?
I got the wonderful Vingtor decal sheet for G-VTOL in all of its colour schemes but I need to know how the big 330 gall tanks were painted and how big they were. I've got some of Colin Frieghtdog's 100 gallon en route from Big H and I'm hoping a 'cut and shut' job on them will produce some big tanks.
found these on a russain site
http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art3341.htm
I love harriers with the big ferry tanks. All kinds of WHIF possibilities. Sorry I do not have good pictures.
I worry that a 100 gallon tanks with a plug will look too skinny. Raiding a Phantom kit or somthing similar might be a better option.
For my 1/72 WHIF KGR-3 Harrier I used a 300ish gallon tank from another kit, and used a 1/48 gun pod from a bomb/weapons kit as the buddy fuel pod. This gave the fatter apperancve I was looking for.
Consider a small 1/48 tank.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,23478.0.html scroll down a bit to see the KGR-3 with the big tnak and the buddy pod.
Good luck. Dave
Mmmm....Harriers. Love that RWB scheme. And I'm also a big fan of arge drop tanks on them. I was just down at my LHS talking to the owner. I saw a pic today of some GR.3s with probes and 4 tanks, never seen them like that before. The caption said it was taken at Wide Awake, but judging by the camo on the accompanying Vulcan, and the extremely large hangar, and the snow....I'd say it was more like Goose Bay, Labrador.
So after having that talk, I decided my new GR.1 would have lots of tanks, be from the OCU, set up for a cross-country navigational excursion.
:tornado: :wub:.
I've got 2 photos that show G-VTOL (in one of its camo schemes) with some 230 gallon drop tanks. Are those the tanks you mean, or did they trial even bigger tanks?
What a BRILL set of pics on that Russian site Lenny, thanks so much! :thumbsup: :bow:
The top view showing the big tanks AND the ferry tips is a gem, I think I'll build it like that.
You may well be right about the 100 galls being too skinny Dave, the pic that Lenny found shows how fat the big tanks were. I've got LOTS of F-4 tanks to play with but this house is a '1/48 scale free zone'. ;D
AFAIK they flew the GR3s down to Wideawake with four tanks Cap'n, but then had to bring the tanks back to Wittering in a Herk as there wasn't enough to go round. ;D And snow at Wideawake at ANY time of year would seem unlikely, so you're probably right about the location.
I'd like the pics anyway please Harro, it seems they flew G-VTOL with all sorts of test loads as it was owned by Hawker-Siddley anyway.
Try this mate:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn117/ornithoptera/PICT0476.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26506-harrier-g-vtol/&h=768&w=1024&sz=136&tbnid=IwcQ_WZq8_GnYM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=144&zoom=1&usg=__T0j__EjmddGyvmZv-spkK8jwTCk=&docid=4Se1Yz8SJhlMTM&sa=X&ei=xVWOUqSOAcyBhAe6poGQCg&ved=0CDwQ9QEwBA (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn117/ornithoptera/PICT0476.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26506-harrier-g-vtol/&h=768&w=1024&sz=136&tbnid=IwcQ_WZq8_GnYM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=144&zoom=1&usg=__T0j__EjmddGyvmZv-spkK8jwTCk=&docid=4Se1Yz8SJhlMTM&sa=X&ei=xVWOUqSOAcyBhAe6poGQCg&ved=0CDwQ9QEwBA)
That's interesting, it's a model and he's built it with the SMALL tanks. I've not seen a pic of G-VTOL itself with small tanks, but loads of the RAF T2s and 4s used them often.
Lovely job though, I hope mine comes out as well as that.
I have a set of very old scale drawing which includes the larg tanks. I will scan and send them to you Kit.
Gondor
Why not stick GRIER pods on instead? Or maybe save that for another project.
Quote from: Hobbes on November 21, 2013, 10:41:29 AM
I've got 2 photos that show G-VTOL (in one of its camo schemes) with some 230 gallon drop tanks. Are those the tanks you mean, or did they trial even bigger tanks?
I think I agree with Harro, the top view photo of G-VTOL looks a lot like Hunter 230 Gal. tanks or even possibly Sea Vixen tanks, I could be wrong though ---
Didn't the old Airfix Harrier have the big tanks with it?
Excellent stuff guys, I'll take all the info I can get thanks.
I'm building it RW inkworm, thus the proper decal sheet, so the proper tanks are a must.
I have an old Frog GR1 - does that have the tanks you are after?
Afraid not, but thanks anyway.
AFAIK none of the Harrier kits, and I've got most of them even though I've only ever built one (!), have the larger size tanks, but most them have the standard 100 gallon ones.
Luckily the original Airfix kit has the extended ferry tips. :thumbsup:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 21, 2013, 03:21:59 PM
Afraid not, but thanks anyway.
AFAIK none of the Harrier kits, and I've got most of them even though I've only ever built one (!), have the larger size tanks, but most them have the standard 100 gallon ones.
Luckily the original Airfix kit has the extended ferry tips. :thumbsup:
The Airfix Sea Harrier FA2 has the 190 ltr tanks and the old GR3 kit had larger ferry tanks although never sure if they were fact or fiction
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 21, 2013, 03:21:59 PM
Afraid not, but thanks anyway.
AFAIK none of the Harrier kits, and I've got most of them even though I've only ever built one (!), have the larger size tanks, but most them have the standard 100 gallon ones.
Luckily the original Airfix kit has the extended ferry tips. :thumbsup:
Or you could use the Heller Bobkit T.2/4 which has the ferry tips already moulded in.
Out of interest, large Hunter tank under Harrier T.2 wing
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa263%2Fkitnut617%2FHarrier%2520and%2520Sea%2520Harrier%2FHunterTanks_zpseffcfdbd.jpg&hash=8daca3361f40a21e1311b8bdb09050fac661d854) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/kitnut617/media/Harrier%20and%20Sea%20Harrier/HunterTanks_zpseffcfdbd.jpg.html)
Was there ever any talk of making conformal type tanks from the gun pods ? Seems to me it would be fairly straight forward. And what about the centerline pylon ? Wasn't it plumbed for fuel ? Before you laugh at me, even tho I'm a huge Harrier fan, today was the first time I've heard of fuel tanks on the outboard pylons !
:thumbsup:
190 litres? That's only 50 gallons, I'm not sure I've seen tanks that small on a Harrier. I'll have to check that older GR3 kit, it's been some years since I've run across it. ;D
And I have two of the Bobcat kits as well, I'd forgotten that had the ferry tips. I rather like the look of the Hunter tanks as well, they can't be far off the right size, looking at the top view that lenny found.
There's all sorts of unexpected problems about doing things to the centre underside with Harriers due to the exhaust flow during vertical and short take-offs and landings. That's one reason by GR1s and 3s always fly with either the guns or the strakes in place, so making conformal thanmks in that area may have had undesirable consequences.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2013, 12:04:03 AM
190 litres? That's only 50 gallons, I'm not sure I've seen tanks that small on a Harrier. I'll have to check that older GR3 kit, it's been some years since I've run across it. ;D
And I have two of the Bobcat kits as well, I'd forgotten that had the ferry tips. I rather like the look of the Hunter tanks as well, they can't be far off the right size, looking at the top view that lenny found.
There's all sorts of unexpected problems about doing things to the centre underside with Harriers due to the exhaust flow during vertical and short take-offs and landings. That's one reason by GR1s and 3s always fly with either the guns or the strakes in place, so making conformal thanmks in that area may have had undesirable consequences.
My bad that's 190 gallons, should check the facts before posting late at night :banghead:
As to the belly they have used the gun pods for ECM in the past and Harrier IIs have had strakes modified to carry sensor pods, but as Kit says its probably not a good place for fuel. The new GR3 kit has the Vinten recon pod and the older kit had a baggage pod for the centre pylon which some may have confused as a drop tank.
Anyway Kit have you managed to find any photographs yet of G-VTOL in its early scheme ?
Quote from: Thorvic on November 22, 2013, 12:38:19 AM
My bad that's 190 gallons, should check the facts before posting late at night :banghead:
As to the belly they have used the gun pods for ECM in the past and Harrier IIs have had strakes modified to carry sensor pods, but as Kit says its probably not a good place for fuel. The new GR3 kit has the Vinten recon pod and the older kit had a baggage pod for the centre pylon which some may have confused as a drop tank.
Anyway Kit have you managed to find any photographs yet of G-VTOL in its early scheme ?
In the hydraulic world, which I inhabited for 40 odd years, doing the litres/gallons conversion comes as almost second nature, complicated only by the fact that that world uses the puny US Gallon as opposed to the mighty Imperial Gallon. [Incoming warning] ;D
Yes, lenny's link to that amazing Russian site gave me enough info to build the model, all I need now is to clone myself three or four times so I have enough time to BUILD it!
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2013, 04:58:53 AM
the fact that that world uses the puny US Gallon as opposed to the mighty Imperial Gallon. [Incoming warning] ;D
Now that's funny ! I'm going to have to remember that one.
:cheers:
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2013, 04:58:53 AM
all I need now is to clone myself three or four times so I have enough time to BUILD it!
Careful : I've heard that the first clone almost invariably comes out as a JMN, and so much bickering ensues that all further clones simply refuse to work ! And then there's the matter of the bar bill down at the pub.....
:thumbsup:
I've just spent some time measuring bits of plastic and photos of G-VTOL and it looks like the big tanks ARE 300 gall ones, which makes them unique AFAIK.
The tanks from the Revell Hunter kit are 230 galls and are around 69 mm long. Scaled to the size on the two photos and the plans that have been sent to me the 300 gall tanks should be around 87 mm long, and if you calculate the volume from that data it comes to 290 galls. :thumbsup:
So it looks like I'll need two sets of Hunter tanks, but with the four cruciform fins added to the back end, should do the job. Luckily I have maybe 4-5 Hunters kits. ;D
Quote from: Captain Canada on November 21, 2013, 06:10:51 PM
And what about the centerline pylon ? Wasn't it plumbed for fuel ?
The centerline pylon on the harrier family was not plumbed for fuel. Agree the belly is a bad place for more fuel.
Interestingly the 300 gallon tanks slighty impinged on the harrier flap when the flap was full down (the flap barely hit the tank). For emergency Falklands deployments I believe they agreed to live with this for the Gr3 and Sea Harrier. Handling was tricky with the big tanks.
Those Hunter tanks look like they will work well.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 24, 2013, 09:30:14 AM
I've just spent some time measuring bits of plastic and photos of G-VTOL and it looks like the big tanks ARE 300 gall ones, which makes them unique AFAIK.
The tanks from the Revell Hunter kit are 230 galls and are around 69 mm long. Scaled to the size on the two photos and the plans that have been sent to me the 300 gall tanks should be around 87 mm long, and if you calculate the volume from that data it comes to 290 galls. :thumbsup:
So it looks like I'll need two sets of Hunter tanks, but with the four cruciform fins added to the back end, should do the job. Luckily I have maybe 4-5 Hunters kits. ;D
What about the tanks in the old Airfix Harrier GR3 tooling their 76mm long ?
Not quite lomg enough Geoff, so I'd still have to 'cut and shut' them. I've had a look and that's one Harrier kit I don't have, odd........
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 24, 2013, 01:54:52 PM
Not quite lomg enough Geoff, so I'd still have to 'cut and shut' them. I've had a look and that's one Harrier kit I don't have, odd........
I know but that was Airfix's attempt at the ferry tank back in the early 80s. The kits unusal because it has a baggage pod, ferry tanks and lepus flares or rather attempts at all 3 as not sure how accurate any are, but way oustripped by the new issue or the older Esci and hasegawa versions
No, they're not the large Hunter ferry tanks. The photo shows a fin on the tank and the ones on the Hunter never had them. Plus, they look bigger.
Kit, I can spare the tanks from my old Harrier if you want them.
Another option. A Hunter did fly with 300 gallon tanks, G-APUX, the company T.66 demonstrator. I think they were just the 230 gal tanks with a re-inforced stretch. Odds and Ordnance did a set, if you can find them, but you'll need to add fins.
http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Aircraft-Profiles/UK/Modern/Hawker-Hunter-2-seater-5view (http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Aircraft-Profiles/UK/Modern/Hawker-Hunter-2-seater-5view)
I'd come to the same conclusion Mossie, I reckon G-VTOL's big tanks WERE the ones from G-APUX! Adding the four fins wouldn't be all that difficult to a company the size of H-S
After all both aircraft were company owned and by the time H-S built G-VTOL G-APUX had long gone, sold to Chile I believe. Thanks for the offer but I have more tanks than I have socks at the moment. ;D
maybe one for Freightdog as Harriers did use the ferry tanks including the GR3's in Operation Corporate, so would be ideal for the new Airfix kits as well as the recent Sword ones
How big a tank though? Colin already does the 200 gall versions, I have two packs of them in my Harrier Project box.
I'll have to get some more of those myself Kit, I've got one set sometime ago but those are for another project. (light comes on) Mind you, I did buy an ExtaKit FA.2 the other week becuase 1. it was cheap 2. because I needed to get to the minimum order value :banghead: but it has a pair of 200 Gal tanks too --
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 25, 2013, 06:06:15 AM
I'll have to get some more of those myself Kit, I've got one set sometime ago but those are for another project. (light comes on) Mind you, I did buy an ExtaKit FA.2 the other week becuase 1. it was cheap 2. because I needed to get to the minimum order value :banghead: but it has a pair of 200 Gal tanks too --
Does that kit come from Sword originally too?
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 25, 2013, 06:10:37 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 25, 2013, 06:06:15 AM
I'll have to get some more of those myself Kit, I've got one set sometime ago but those are for another project. (light comes on) Mind you, I did buy an ExtaKit FA.2 the other week becuase 1. it was cheap 2. because I needed to get to the minimum order value :banghead: but it has a pair of 200 Gal tanks too --
Does that kit come from Sword originally too?
Box says manufactured by MPM Kit. I'll have a look at the sprues later and see if it looks the same layout of the T.2/4
It comes with an extra canopy as well, as apparently one of them is wrong. Which is fine by me...the more junk in the spares box, the merrier !
:cheers:
What this thread has brought home to me again is how unique each aircraft type actually is. I'd have thought a standardised set of drop tanks in various capacities would have been developed a long, long time ago. However it seems unique ones kept being developed for each and every aircraft. :banghead:
Didn't Douglas develop the Aero A1 tank shape for the Skyhawk, and it was made in various sizes for all sorts of USN types after that?
I've been spending an hour or so scaling photos and stuff and come to the conclusion that the Hunter tanks with an additional 7mm length, plus the four fins, will do the job for G-VTOL's big tanks. One of the plans is very misleading in that it says it shows 330 gallon tanks but I worked out the volume from the drawing and it's almost 400!
Perhaps the problem was a weight rather than a volume limitation on that pylon?
Yeah, the Aero Tank would be the way to go but I can't think of anything other than the Skyhawk that carried it. Mmm, perhaps the Skyraider? It had bit tanks which were a similar shape to the Skyhawk's...
Douglas used the aero series stores designs on numerous types and in all sorts of proposals,
like the F3D-3:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FF3D3_05.png&hash=cc47de7ead583a1eb27fe2656f13b145efaa1a53)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FF3D3_04.png&hash=0b382a62714bae913bea055f1914fc90e93aad0d)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FF3D3_03.png&hash=06521f4fa55d28a61099e635234813f9bc15581a)
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 25, 2013, 06:27:03 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 25, 2013, 06:10:37 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 25, 2013, 06:06:15 AM
I'll have to get some more of those myself Kit, I've got one set sometime ago but those are for another project. (light comes on) Mind you, I did buy an ExtaKit FA.2 the other week becuase 1. it was cheap 2. because I needed to get to the minimum order value :banghead: but it has a pair of 200 Gal tanks too --
Does that kit come from Sword originally too?
Box says manufactured by MPM Kit. I'll have a look at the sprues later and see if it looks the same layout of the T.2/4
Did a comparison last night, there's no resemblance between the parts in the two kits, XtraKit Sea Harrier has very soft details to the parts, while the two trainers are really quite good. The Trainers have a single piece top half to the wing, the XtraKit SHAR has separate wing halves and have the plug in tabs for connecting to the fuselage. Completely different.
The Sword kits have three different fins, one would solve the Airfix new tool GR.3 fin problem (sorry Colin), they have a variety on noses too.
I'll have to look in the Sword boxes tonite. I only recall 2 fins but three sounds nice !
:cheers:
Also have to keep an eye on the ferry tank talk that started all this. I want to do one of my GR.1s as an OCU type, in a cross country excercise with 4 tanks. That's why I was wondering about the centreline tank.
On that note, if you were going to operate your Harrier in strictly conventional flight, then would a centreline tank be feasible ?
:cheers:
The re-released Sword T4/4N has all three fins for sure, I just checked.
Carrying a centre-line fuel tank on any first generation Harrier is a big no-no, at least in the real world.
The centre-line rack is used for recce pods and baggage pods and rarely for bombs as well, but NEVER for fuel tanks. a) It's not plumbed for fuel and b) it'd be ruddy dangerous with all the ultra hot gas whizzing around it during VSTOL operations.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 25, 2013, 04:36:01 PM
Didn't Douglas develop the Aero A1 tank shape for the Skyhawk, and it was made in various sizes for all sorts of USN types after that?
. One of the plans is very misleading in that it says it shows 330 gallon tanks but I worked out the volume from the drawing and it's almost 400!
Be carfull about volume, as sometimes the whole shape may not hold fuel, especially the nose cone and tail area. So the 330 might be accurate.
Attacksquadron from Poland does a Douglas/A-4 300 gallon tank set, and yes I believe it was used by other airframes as well. Looks like a nice kit and available from white ensign. Looks like the the buddy kit in there as well?? https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/product-search/Attack+Squadron/1/
Dave
Good photo of a GR1 Harrier with the 330 gallon tanks. 4 fins.
http://www.fourfax.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3723
Not seen that one before, or indeed ANY GR1 with big tanks like that, thanks very much.
4 Sqdn too, one of my Dad's units, but he was on 4 in the mid 30s. ;D
Awesome shot ! Thanks ! There is another one on the Cold War Timeline of a GR.3 at Goose Bay with those exact tanks, same colours as well. But that shot is just gorgeous....wow.
So what is the bottom line for making these tanks ? I would like to make up a few for my Harrier project. Mind you, it's all whir to me so I guess I could pretty much use anything.....
:cheers:
I'm intending to lengthen a pair of Revell Hunter tanks, and add the fins from styrene for my G-VTOL model.
Sounds like a plan. Maybe another excuse to buy that Revell Hunter that I want, but don't want...... :banghead:
And I started looking thru the galleries from that link above.....awesome stuff ! Lots of Harrier pics I have never seen. Thanks !
:cheers:
I'll build the tanks soon and post the results on here.
Before the other laptop died I'd saved a pic on that showed a Revell tank compared to a scaled almost overhead view that lenny found and it's pretty darn close as regards diameter.
Thanks. Looking forward to it.
Looking at photos, I've seen a GR.3 in the green scheme that the GR.5 came out in. Was that a one-of ? What about the GR.3s in RN colours ? Did they fly or were they instructional airframes ?
Quote from: Captain Canada on November 29, 2013, 07:38:14 AM
Thanks. Looking forward to it.
Looking at photos, I've seen a GR.3 in the green scheme that the GR.5 came out in. Was that a one-of ? What about the GR.3s in RN colours ? Did they fly or were they instructional airframes ?
There were two GR-3 painted up to test scheme for the GR5, one in a Grey scheme and the other a Green scheme, with markings adjusted to match.
The ones shown in Sea Harrier Schemes were old airframes used by the school of aircraft handling for training crews in handling the harrier on on CVS class decks.
Thanks Geoff. All of my Harrier books are rather outdated....and it seems the web is a great place for harrier photos, but getting the straight facts is a little bit tougher !
:cheers:
When Mrs_PR19 and I were down in Cornwall last year the FAA painted GR3s were still at Culdrose. I wonder if they're using them for general handling training before the F-35s arrrive?
Quote from: Thorvic on November 29, 2013, 09:32:11 AM
Quote from: Captain Canada on November 29, 2013, 07:38:14 AM
Thanks. Looking forward to it.
Looking at photos, I've seen a GR.3 in the green scheme that the GR.5 came out in. Was that a one-of ? What about the GR.3s in RN colours ? Did they fly or were they instructional airframes ?
There were two GR-3 painted up to test scheme for the GR5, one in a Grey scheme and the other a Green scheme, with markings adjusted to match.
The ones shown in Sea Harrier Schemes were old airframes used by the school of aircraft handling for training crews in handling the harrier on on CVS class decks.
The two experimental schemes are available on Modeldecal 78 if your interested.
Regards
Keith
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 26, 2013, 11:06:46 PM
Not seen that one before, or indeed ANY GR1 with big tanks like that, thanks very much.
Didn't the Harrier used in the Daily Mail Trans Atlantic Air Race have the larger tanks?
Gondor
Not the largest tanks AFAIK, they look like the standard 100 gall ones to me.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg189.imageshack.us%2Fimg189%2F4484%2Fpiv4.jpg&hash=37003c4076af3fc0a832d7af25dbd013d7c2f971)
G-VTOL now resides in the http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/.
... and Mrs_PR19 and I are planning to go and see it before much longer. A pity it's still in the Skyhook scheme, I'd be WELL in favour of a repaint to the glorious original scheme.
Last time I was there, they had an 'open cockpit' day and I got to sit in G-VTOL. An interesting experience, you don't realize how tiny the cockpit is when you stand outside. I'm 1m80/6' and my eyes were level with the windshield frame, I doubt I'd have fit in the closed cockpit had I worn a helmet.
Green with envy mode on............ ;D
What are these pods here ?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39411748@N06/galleries/72157626999028999/#photo_5932723369
The top Harrier photo is G-VTOL in its 2nd 'Desert Scheme' carrying the standard 100 gall tanks.
The second pair are a trifle inscrutable but I suspect they show the VAAC Harrier, XW175, in an earlier scheme with a pod for its all-digital control system carried on the starboard gun pod position.
[Later] Just noticed that XW175 is also in the upper photo, the T2 next aft from G-VTOL, and a GR3 right aft which has had 'Royal Navy' zap applied to its tail. ;D
Cool. But what are the pods in the other photos ? First I've ever seen them.
:cheers:
Which pods where? I can only see three photos showing Harriers on that page.
In the 2 photos below the 4-ship you were talking about, the two seater has some bulbous pods where the lift strakes or gun pods go. Just wondering what they are. Doesn't look like the have doors on them.
Quote from: Captain Canada on December 01, 2013, 11:44:59 AM
In the 2 photos below the 4-ship you were talking about, the two seater has some bulbous pods where the lift strakes or gun pods go. Just wondering what they are. Doesn't look like the have doors on them.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 30, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
The top Harrier photo is G-VTOL in its 2nd 'Desert Scheme' carrying the standard 100 gall tanks.
The second pair are a trifle inscrutable but I suspect they show the VAAC Harrier, XW175, in an earlier scheme with a pod for its all-digital control system carried on the starboard gun pod position.
[Later] Just noticed that XW175 is also in the upper photo, the T2 next aft from G-VTOL, and a GR3 right aft which has had 'Royal Navy' zap applied to its tail. ;D
Kit had already answered your question before you asked which is probably why you confused him :thumbsup:
Correct, that's the instrumentation pod only carried on XW175, the VAAC Harrier. It was only carried on the starboard side at one time, but I've also seen photos of it carrying two pods at the same tiem, one on each side.
Incidentally it's the oldest 2 seat Harrier as it was #2 off the line and the prototype was written off in a crash very early on.
Holy smokes....I read that post three times and kept going back to the photos, looking to see the GR.3 etc....how on earth I missed that part of the comment is beyond me ! Sorry guys.....
At least Geoff has cleared up the confusion !
:thumbsup:
It almost looks like it is carrying two of the pods. It's hard to tell with the angle and with the gear doors etc, but it looks like it to me.
:cheers:
Thanks again guys
I think in both the lower two pics, the ones where it's ready for take-off, it's got a pod on the starboard side and a standard Harrier strake on the port side.
Actually seeing that pod on the starboard side like that gives credibility to my Sea Harrier F.13/14 project, I've got a pod in the same position only I've blended it into a converted gun-pod, it's supposed to be the Data-Transfer Pod in my backstory
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa263%2Fkitnut617%2FHarrier%2520and%2520Sea%2520Harrier%2FSeaHarrierF13011.jpg&hash=3c7a30528f39e57d0853c7fd63e66d318413fb71) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/kitnut617/media/Harrier%20and%20Sea%20Harrier/SeaHarrierF13011.jpg.html)
Pretty much what they used them for on the VAAC project.
They gathered TONS of data on each flight, and according to John Farley's Harrier 'Bible' they could simulate up to EIGHT different aircraft from the back seat in that one airframe!
Any word on the 300 gallon tanks ? I dug out my 'tank bag' from the spares boxes last night. Might go out and grab another 2-seater today. Damn Harriers....
:wub:
I'll be working on them this evening. Right now my priority is filling LARGE plastic boxes with surplus kits for a model sale here on Sunday.
I HATE doing that, sitting up there in The Loft figuring out what I don't want to build amongst the mountains of stuff there, when I really want to build them all!! :banghead:
I hear ya there....although I rarely get rid of kits, this plastic affliction we all suffer from seems to bare the same symptoms regardless of who/what/where you are !
Sometimes I look at the stash, the half builts, and the ever increasing pile of broken, dusty and otherwise decrepit* models and wonder to myself " what am I doing ?"
:thumbsup:
* I have kids and cats, and the model room happens to be close to the hobby room
At the last kit census, Feb 2012, Mrs_PR19 and I got up to 1000 unbult kits and could go no futher............ :banghead:
In addition I managed to reduce my un-finished projects count down to 60 last month. As I'll be 71 on Boxing Day there's NO way I can even build 1/3 of that little lot before I shuffle off this mortal coil, so off to other homes the surplus stuff must go. :-\
Amen Brother. It's no fun to think of it tho..... :thumbsup:
I made a list awhile back, of unfinished build threads I had started, it was almost two full pages of A4. Of course, I promptly lost that list.....and that doesn't count all the other stuff I have started down there. Ugh.
:banghead:
I shudder to think of how many I have stored away, we always want to buy more or the latest version of a particular aircraft.
Gondor
92 of my stock are Spitfires of various sorts, but that'd be a mere bagetelle beside The Wooksta's I expect.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2013, 01:57:38 PM
92 of my stock are Spitfires of various sorts, but that'd be a mere bagetelle beside The Wooksta's I expect.
I think I've got about 65 Kit, our total doesn't match Lee's pile ---
I wonder if Americans hoard Mustangs the way we do Spits ?
:wacko:
Quote from: Captain Canada on December 02, 2013, 02:04:56 PM
I wonder if Americans hoard Mustangs the way we do Spits ?
:wacko:
I've got maybe 20 of them of various sorts too! Lovely looking aeroplane but doesn't come in as many varieties as Spitfires do.
Doesn't evoke as much emotion either...if you ask me. Especially when you see a Spitfire roll....... :wub: :wub:
I got the prototype BIG tank glued up last night, but no fins as yet. Maybe get them on this evening as I've other things on my plate today.
Sounds good !
:cheers:
I am looking forward to the result of this build, page six and only now plastic has been cut! :blink:
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on December 03, 2013, 12:06:43 PM
I am looking forward to the result of this build, page six and only now plastic has been cut! :blink:
Gondor
Hehehe, I was thinkingh the same thing about a page ago too. ;D
And the thing's not even a Whiff either! :o
Just goes to show how much we love proper aeroplanes around here !
:thumbsup: :tornado: :wub:
FINALLY a build pic! ;D
Here's the prototype 300/330 gall tank (take your pick.....) alongside a 1/72 scaled top(-ish) view photo, and the same tank positioned under the Sword Harrier T2 wing. Fins are thin-(-ish) styrene glued on at 90 deg to each other and 45 deg to the vertical/horizontal.
I don't think it looks too bad and I'll have a go at the 2nd one tomorrow maybe.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg713.imageshack.us%2Fimg713%2F9343%2F8ggh.jpg&hash=7cf4992b938853dfab44f74f45a1c6a433e85142)
Quote from: kitnut617 on December 02, 2013, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 02, 2013, 01:57:38 PM
92 of my stock are Spitfires of various sorts, but that'd be a mere bagetelle beside The Wooksta's I expect.
I think I've got about 65 Kit, our total doesn't match Lee's pile ---
Bearing in mind that my total Plan acquisition for 2011 was 265 (which admittedly includes S.224, Spitfire, Seafire, Spiteful, Seafang and Attacker), I'd say that barely scratches the surface. IIRC, I finished over 65 Plan items in 2012... I haven't worked out how many I purchased in 2012.
Nice work Kit ! Thanks for posting it like that....perfect. I'll print that one off at work and save it in my ever increasing Harrier file !
:thumbsup: :tornado: :wub: :cheers:
I am not 100% sure Kit but the scaling looks a little off with the picture of G-VTOL and its enormous (ooo err misses) tanks!
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on December 05, 2013, 11:52:04 AM
I am not 100% sure Kit but the scaling looks a little off with the picture of G-VTOL and its enormous (ooo err misses) tanks!
The photo isn't a direct plan view, and the aircraft is rolling a little so any discrepancy would be in span. It's scaled to an exact 1/72 scale length so the tank bits should be exact. The piccie of the tank is cut out from the main pic so that should also be dead on.
I think that 3-View I sent would be a bit better to use Kit -- at least it has a scale on the dwg. I figure that the tanks are 17'-11" long (or 2.98" in 1/72 scale)
I scaled the photo to that drawing actually. The tanks may be tad slim but they're good enough for Government work. The 100 gall versions just look TOO silly under there.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on December 05, 2013, 12:57:42 PM
Quote from: Gondor on December 05, 2013, 11:52:04 AM
I am not 100% sure Kit but the scaling looks a little off with the picture of G-VTOL and its enormous (ooo err misses) tanks!
The photo isn't a direct plan view, and the aircraft is rolling a little so any discrepancy would be in span. It's called to an exact 1/72 scale length so the tank bits should be exact. The piccie of the tank is cut out from the main pic so that should also be dead on.
I did say that I was not sure. I also didn't think that an engineer of your standing would have messed things up so I am grateful for your explanation saying why I would think it looked wrong. Top work as usual from yourself Kit :thumbsup:
Gondor
I think they look perfect ! Can't wait to see this one done :wub:
What about casting resin ones for all your pals ?
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Captain Canada on December 05, 2013, 03:36:25 PM
I think they look perfect ! Can't wait to see this one done :wub:
What about casting resin ones for all your pals ?
:thumbsup:
My knowledge of resin casting could be filed inside a 1/144 scale Harrier tank I'm afraid.
A couple of my friends here are very adept at it but I'm not sure that the thin fins would be castable. Anyone care to comment on that?
Scratching up some fins would be easy enough, but it would be nice to have some easily accessible long range tanks to doll up the earlier Harriers.
:cheers:
I'll ask about then.
I can supply drawings for the fins and I have enough Hunters to make three sets of tanks too.
Not enough Harrier talk on the forum right now, so I have to ask...... :thumbsup:
The #2 tank is with a certain resin moulder as we speak. ;D
I'm building tank #3 to go on my model of G-VTOL itself but it's at a lower level of priority at the moment as I'm fighting my way through my B-35 and BEA 727 builds just now. And I DO mean 'fighting'. :banghead:
Definately one of the perils of having to many builds on the go at once. The ones you don't really want to do alway seem to drag you away from the ones you do !
:cheers:
If that makes any sense..... :thumbsup:
Been awhile since an update here....how's it going ?
:drink:
Quote from: Captain Canada on March 12, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
Been awhile since an update here....how's it going ?
:drink:
Glacially.............
LOL....in this weather it's be hard not to go that pace !
:thumbsup:
Well, over here anyway...it's only -16 with a windchill of -26. It's usually about +15 now !
:banghead:
I see that and raise it Todd, we had -39C, wind chill around -50C about 10 days ago. We've now have a hint of Spring, last Friday morning it was -20C but by the afternoon it was +2C, Saturday and Sunday up around +10 to +11C. This week has been around +6C and the big meltdown is happening, the snow piles we have around and about are diminishing rapidly, mostly it's all just evaporating. must be where you're getting all the snow right now ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on March 13, 2014, 04:48:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Canada on March 12, 2014, 05:59:48 PM
Been awhile since an update here....how's it going ?
:drink:
Glacially.............
The ice has started to move, a tad anyway. ;D
I got the G-VTOL kit off the Projects Shelf tonight and sourced a couple of resin intakes, the ones with the little square subsidiary intakes open at the top and closed at the bottom. I've started to figure out how to build the very complex M-B bang seats, and there's LOTS of PE stuff on them. I see lots of small tweezer work in my future....
Nice to hear !
:cheers:
Here's the initial build pics.
The basic Sword Harrier T4 kit plus the lovely Vingtor decals, which I've had for an entire YEAR by now :banghead: Below are the two new resin intakes with the improved blow-in doors and lastly the array of big tanks. My prototype is the top one with the fins and the others are OGL's wonderful 'production' mouldings.
The lower pic shows the Sword contents, including the packet of PE etch top left and the single resin air brake interior below the clear parts. In usual Sword fashion there are NO index pegs and holes at all, so the alignment of the parts is up to the modeller. Oddly the kit has all three fin heights trialled on the 2 seat Harriers, but only the medium height fin is mentioned in the instructions. For my model of G-VTOL I'll use the tallest one as that's the only height it used when painted in the red/white/blue scheme. Later on it reverted to the standard medium height fin when in the desert scheme or its last, and current, Skyhook scheme.
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Hey Kit, I see you went with the resin blow in doors, but what are the blow in doors like on the stock Sword kit? Are the top ones sucked in like a harrier parked at rest, engine idle?
Is the resin replacement the same way? top doors sucked in, bottom closed?
Blow in doors seem to be an issue with most harrier kits.
I love the first generation twin seat versions, but my Bobcat kit is showing it's age.
-Dave
The Sword kit only has markings for the blow in doors, none of them are open at all. :banghead:
The resin ones have the top ones fully open and the bottom ones closed, and the rest are phased between those two extremes. And I'd agree about the other kits, very few of them have the doors shown properly in an 'engine off' situation.
The latest Airfix kits, the GR3 kit no. AO4055 and Sea Harrier FA2 kit no. AO3079, both have a rather strange option that enables you to have either condition however. The doors themselves are arranged in a half-ring that fits into the back of the intake mouldings, and there's one set of fully closed doors for modelling in flight and one set with them open at the top and closed at the bottom for on the ground models. I've not built either of them as yet so I can't report how well they work though.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 19, 2014, 12:03:40 PM
The Sword kit only has markings for the blow in doors, none of them are open at all. :banghead:
Thank you, that is a real shame they left them all closed. Would look odd for your typical parked Harrier. Guess the resin is a must for that kit then- I tend to not model aircraft in flight. The rest of the Sword kit does look pretty good though.
I do like kits that give you the option of open (or really like you say, phased) or closed doors.
-Dave
On which subject....
Does anyone do resin intakes with the phased blow-on doors for the later Harriers? The GR5-9s and the T10s?
I seem to be on a Harrier 'thing' at the moment, goodness knows why as I've only ever built one before. ;D
I got one of each of the Sword T.2 & T.4 kits and they do look really good. Mind you the old Bobkit kits are not too shabby, just a lack of basic details is all that's wrong with them. Got three or four of those in the stash --- somewhere --- (that's not to mention the five or six T.10's I have) :banghead: Do you think those intake replacements would work on them Kit ? But what we could really do with is some replacement fan fronts and inner ducting for the various Harrier kits -- and canopies --
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 19, 2014, 01:17:09 PM
On which subject....
Does anyone do resin intakes with the phased blow-on doors for the later Harriers? The GR5-9s and the T10s?
Heritage Aviation does the drop door intakes too, it says on their website they're for 'any' Harrier. So are the early and late Harrier intakes different in any way ?
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 19, 2014, 02:04:15 PM
Heritage Aviation does the drop door intakes too, it says on their website they're for 'any' Harrier. So are the early and late Harrier intakes different in any way ?
Good question Robert, I've always assumed the later versions were larger to accommodate the increased airflow to the later Pegasus engines, but comparing them, from an Airfix GR3 and an Italeri T10 they look pretty much the same.
I've got two pairs of the resin intakes so I'll try them and report back.
Freightdog do resin intakes for the T2/T4 family of Harriers with the drooped upper auxiliary intake doors.
Gondor
Quote from: Gondor on November 19, 2014, 03:35:34 PM
Freightdog do resin intakes for the T2/T4 family of Harriers with the drooped upper auxiliary intake doors.
Gondor
Those are the ones I have Alastair, or I think they are anyway.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 19, 2014, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: Gondor on November 19, 2014, 03:35:34 PM
Freightdog do resin intakes for the T2/T4 family of Harriers with the drooped upper auxiliary intake doors.
Gondor
Those are the ones I have Alastair, or I think they are anyway.
Going by the picture you have above you don't have the Freightdog intakes. http://www.freightdogmodels.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=803&osCsid=c0467a1938684f45fdcb03768d7267f1 have part of the trunking as well as the intakes.
Gondor
Whatever, they have the 'phased blow in doors' anyway and the insides are the right shape as far as I can see. I'll see how they fit once I've spent a couple of days working on the mind blowing cockpit of the Sword kit.
I've built one of the Airfix FA.2 kits, and I liked the 2-part intakes. I'll see if I can put up some photos tonight.
Yeah, I can vouch for it's effectiveness too having built the FRS.1 kit. I made a mistake with mine, I managed to swap them over and fitted the doors upside down. :banghead: Didn't pay attention to part numbers and what I was doing.
I had another problem, the main intakes themselves didn't fit well at all. I seem to have had a lot of fit problems with my kit that I haven't seen mentioned on the web, in fact most say it was largely hassle free. I guess my kit was done on the Friday afternoon shift.
I'll open another thread on the G-VTOL build in the proper part of the Forum.