Found this Imperial War Museum photo of a Humber Light Reconnaissance Car in Hamburg ca. 1945.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi459.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq311%2FGPlachy%2FIWM-BU-5254-Humber-LRC-Hamburg-19450504.jpg&hash=76033051cb7f62d461e294a1c8f47ab7a28d9f0b)
This is a real vehicle but.... note the MG in the cupola.... does that look slightly like a German MG42 to anyone else? ;)
Now..... What if more captured German weapons were used to arm Allied vehicles due to critical shortages of materials & to utilise large caches of captured weapons & munitions? :blink:
For example; German 7.5cm KwK 40's being fitted to Churchill's or Sherman's? ;D
Or; "Bren carriers" (Universal Carriers) fitted with MG42's?
For all I know the latter may be Real World, I haven't looked that far into it. After all, the Humber LRC is!
Definitely looks like an MG42 to me....
Helluva surprise you found there!!
I wonder if it's mounted with Whitworth bolts or Metric ones? ;D
I note the guy standing next to the hatch is, also, wearing a pair of purloined jackboots, too! :smiley:
the old saying " if it aint on fire or nailed down its mine! and if i can pry it loose and put it out its mine too" springs to mind.
At first glance, I thought the kiosk was installed on the back of the armoured car.
I think it's a bloody good idea to use a captured MG42 instead of the Bren. As much as I love the old Bren, I still cannot understand WHY anyone would fit a 30rng box mad to a LMG..
Kit - Only an engineer would ask a question like that wouldn't you????
Is it me or does that entire turret look like it's off of german armoured car????
Quote from: lancer on April 02, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Kit - Only an engineer would ask a question like that wouldn't you????
Yes, especially one who's lived in Berlin for while, and working for the German branch of a US company. We had test systems with all THREE thread standards on the same rig, so nothing would surprise me about an ex-Wehrmacht machine gun mounted in a Brit armoured car!
Quote from: lancer on April 02, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Is it me or does that entire turret look like it's off of german armoured car????
There is something odd with that turret, it dosen't appear to be part of the origional photograph. Looks to have a slightly different perspective or slightly out of focus ? Or do I need new specs ?
Quote from: Old Wombat on April 01, 2012, 06:41:22 PM
Now..... What if more captured German weapons were used to arm Allied vehicles due to critical shortages of materials & to utilise large caches of captured weapons & munitions? :blink:
Happened all the time in the Med and N Africa. My dad's destroyer mounted some light Italian AA guns which had been exchanged with some Aussies for various stores (including rum :drink:). Then when they went out East they managed to get hold of some US stuff via the we have alcohol you have something we'd like barter system :blink:
318 Sqn in Italy bought their ex-Croation Bf-109G10 from an American Sergeant for bottles of whisky :drink: Superb photo though.
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 03, 2012, 06:28:43 AM
Quote from: lancer on April 02, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Is it me or does that entire turret look like it's off of german armoured car????
There is something odd with that turret, it dosen't appear to be part of the origional photograph. Looks to have a slightly different perspective or slightly out of focus ? Or do I need new specs ?
No, it might be your specs ;) it definitely looks like a standard turret.
Quote from: grumpybadger on April 06, 2012, 11:08:54 AM
Quote from: NARSES2 on April 03, 2012, 06:28:43 AM
Quote from: lancer on April 02, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Is it me or does that entire turret look like it's off of german armoured car????
There is something odd with that turret, it dosen't appear to be part of the origional photograph. Looks to have a slightly different perspective or slightly out of focus ? Or do I need new specs ?
No, it might be your specs ;) it definitely looks like a standard turret.
Cheers mate :thumbsup: Some of the lads know just how thick my specs are :banghead:
I was thinking as more of a factory-fit job (as this pic seems to show) rather than a field mod but.....
And, Narses2, as it's an Imperial War Museum photo I doubt it's been photo-shopped.... Still, one never knows, I guess.
(Something like being picked on by grumpy badgers & old wombats..... ;) )
I immediately saw the MG42 before I read the text, but if this is a Brit vehicle, with what looks like Brit crew members, why does it have a US Army star on the side ?
Quote from: kitnut617 on April 08, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
I immediately saw the MG42 before I read the text, but if this is a Brit vehicle, with what looks like Brit crew members, why does it have a US Army star on the side ?
Because Americans had a tendency to shoot anything that didn't have an American star on it :rolleyes: , so the rest of us decided it was safer if we just pretended to be Yanks. ;D
Quote from: Old Wombat on April 08, 2012, 09:30:08 AM
Because Americans had a tendency to shoot anything that didn't have an American star on it
Still do from time to time
Quote from: kitnut617 on April 08, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
but if this is a Brit vehicle, with what looks like Brit crew members, why does it have a US Army star on the side ?
As much as I like Old Wombats tongue in cheek reply. :D It was the agreed ID marking for all Allied vehicles in Europe.
Quote from: Martin H on April 08, 2012, 11:06:05 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on April 08, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
but if this is a Brit vehicle, with what looks like Brit crew members, why does it have a US Army star on the side ?
As much as I like Old Wombats tongue in cheek reply. :D It was the agreed ID marking for all Allied vehicles in Europe.
Yup, it was used earlier but as from D-Day it was the standard Allied recognition marking, especially to be displayed so aircraft could see it :wacko:
This is how I'm building my Patchwork World armor - mix and match various parts. I just wish I'd bought a bunch more models to mix up so the end results are less recognizable. ;D
I do enjoy portraying captured Axis equipment in Allied markings or later usage.
Quote from: lancer on April 02, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
I think it's a bloody good idea to use a captured MG42 instead of the Bren. As much as I love the old Bren, I still cannot understand WHY anyone would fit a 30rng box mad to a LMG..
Would you really like to know why?
The truth is, the British Army had turned its back, by and large on fighting a large, general European war again after the end of World War I. They had largely perceived WWI as an aberration. They had been dedicated for so long to the role of Imperial Policing that they had come to see that as their main raison de entre'. This had usually entailed long route marches into the back of beyond, chasing rebellious natives and meant that small columns were often at the end of tenuous supply lines, which meant they could not carry much ammunition, so therefore fire discipline and not wasting ammunition were extremely important. This was also forced upon the because of the parsimonious nature of the treasury meant that they were often starved of funds to spend on logistics. This meant that the Bren, with its box magazine was ideal for the British Army's needs, as they were perceived in the early 1930s.
The funny thing is that after the Boer War, the British Army had decided that the battle winning factor was firepower. They nearly adopted the Mondragon semi-automatic rifle, just before WWI, along with a smaller calibre, high-velocity round. This lesson had been largely reinforced by the lessons of WWI, where the belt-fed machine gun had been one of the major killers on the battlefield. The introduction of the Lewis into the infantry section had come about because of the realisation that a solely rifle equipped section could not hope to win the firefight when faced with the same firepower from the enemy. So, the need was felt for a light, easily handled light machine gun and preferably one which wouldn't waste ammunition. So, that is why the Bren was adopted and why it is designed the way it is.
Unfortunately, large-scale general European wars weren't an aberration and so the Bren, while an excellent LMG was inadequate for use on the European battlefield, particularly when faced with belt-fed weapons such as the MG34 and MG42. Which is why after the war, when the EM2 rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM-2_rifle) was being adopted, in the new calibre of 7mm, it was obvious an LMG would be required to fire the same round and the Taden was born (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taden_gun), which was belt-fed and like the German guns, a GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun) which could fulfil both the role of the LMG and the MMG.
The Bren was an excellent weapon and remains one of my all time favourites to fire but it wasn't the weapon the British needed in 1939, for the threat they were facing. Just as in 1914, when the Army was poised to fully absorb the lessons of the Boer War and re-equip itself with new weapons, the same thing happened in 1939 and so the British army essentially went to war with the same rifle, the same MMG and the same sort of LMG that it had finished WWI with.
Quote from: Old Wombat on April 08, 2012, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: kitnut617 on April 08, 2012, 09:25:32 AM
I immediately saw the MG42 before I read the text, but if this is a Brit vehicle, with what looks like Brit crew members, why does it have a US Army star on the side ?
Because Americans had a tendency to shoot anything that didn't have an American star on it :rolleyes: , so the rest of us decided it was safer if we just pretended to be Yanks. ;D
"If it's enemy shoot it. If it's friendly don't. If in doubt shoot first then ask questions after". I think it's in the U.S. Army manual somewhere. :blink: