I've started my Red Arrows G.91R for Cosford. Nothing worth photographing yet, just clean up of the dodgy bits of the Airfix moulding and filling of the sink marks in the gun panels, and the gun troughs themselves. I've got a Pavla seat for it, since the top of the seat is quite conspicuous when it's finished (and it can't have a pilot to hide it, of course), but I'm not doing the rest of the cockpit: it'd take too long and be demoralisingly invisible anyway.
Colour-wise, it will have a white stripe down each side and a red/white/blue fin, but the white stripe will NOT "swerve" up the fin as it does on the RA Hawks. They can do that on the Hawk because the tailplanes are well behind the fin, giving the stripe room for it's swerve, but it's the other way around on the Gina, so the tailplanes would block the stripe. Also, I've never liked the white-outline arrow on the bottom of the Hawks (it's too.... fussy), so I'm looking at something like this:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FRed%2520Arrows%2520Gina%2FG91RedArrows-fin.jpg&hash=7c03523aaa9a519b5907d72b1c04885e9414ff0c)
Opinions?
The Frecce Tricolori carried their smoke chemicals in underwing tanks but I'd like to eliminate that, so what I think I might do is put a bulge on the lower half of each gun bay door and a fairing over the muzzle (I'm presuming that RAF Ginas would have a 2 x 30mm fit like the German ones but with ADENs), the implication being that the smoke tanks are in the gun bays, but the guns can be re-fitted in wartime.
Backstory is that the Hunter production switched early to the P.1083, meaning the FGA.9 never happened. The "Super Hunter" wasn't particularly suitable for the ground-attack role, so that made the RAF interested in the NATO Light Fighter competition as a means of replacing the Venoms and provinding an advanced trainer. Buying a "foreign" aircraft wasn't particularly painful in this case, since the UK airframes were built under licence by Shorts and ALL the engines for ALL the airframes were built by Bristol. The UK acquired the single seater as a ground-attack aircraft and the G.91T as it's advanced trainer.
Any ideas about a name for the RAF version? It's very rare the RAF doesn't give something a "proper" name, even if it doesn't have one originally....
Oh, and it WILL have the camera nose, despite being a display version. The only reason the Frecci Tricolori PAN aircraft had pointy tin noses was because they were converted from the pre-production aircraft that were built before it was decided to make the camera fit standard on all aircraft. That would hardly apply to RAF aircraft, so mine will have the camera ports there, but blanked off and painted over.
Why not the Falcon? In Italian, "Falco" means "Hawk".
Quote from: Weaver on February 04, 2012, 06:31:28 PM
Colour-wise, it will have a white stripe down each side and a red/white/blue fin, but the white stripe will NOT "swerve" up the fin as it does on the RA Hawks. They can do that on the Hawk because the tailplanes are well behind the fin, giving the stripe room for it's swerve, but it's the other way around on the Gina, so the tailplanes would block the stripe. Also, I've never liked the white-outline arrow on the bottom of the Hawks (it's too.... fussy), so I'm looking at something like this:
Good idea - looking forward to seeing it in the flesh. As far as the fuselage strip sweep is concerned, have you considered starting the sweep to the fin from the point the dorsal fillet starts? By which I mean the line of the stripe would parallel the fillet edge and then transition into the fin ahead of the tailplane? ;D ;D
Rickshaw - good idea: Falcon it is - cheers! :thumbsup:
Kitbasher - looked at the "follow the fillet" idea, but I don't think it works: too much of the stripe ends up not parrallel to the aircraft axis, making it look "bent". Thanks anyway.
Some progress has been made.
1. Fuselage. Tailpipe opened out and an alloy tube and blanking plate fitted, cockpit front bulkheads fitted (so the intake isn't see-through) intake upper wall fitted behind nosecone, intake lips thins, balast added to nose sides and nosecone, cockpit floor pieces fitted. The idea of the stepped floor is that the seat base slots into it, locating it positively.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FRed%2520Arrows%2520Gina%2FFuselagework.jpg&hash=f21c92c350e970055896fbbf4ff01bdf43875962)
2. Ejection Seat. Painting's all done, just needs overhead handles making from wire now. I don't see why Pavla couldn't supply these, given that they've moulded the one on the front of the seat pan just fine... :unsure: I only cut half the moulding plug off, the intention being to mount it direct on the nosewheel bay, but I then realised it could go a bit higher, hence the built up cockpit floor.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FRed%2520Arrows%2520Gina%2FSeat.jpg&hash=39945ee17d58bce93e5eb19bad9f7f75c66e4e27)
Good start. :thumbsup:
Can't make my mind up about stripes and tail flashes and stuff, so here's some ideas to chew on. Opinons please folks!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FRed%2520Arrows%2520Gina%2FG91-SIDEOPTIONS-Copy.jpg&hash=262d7868f817e2498240e2448d09030e1c4a750a)
I like #4, though maybe with the white part of the tail flash curving into the white fuselage stripe. Looking good! :cheers:
Personally #2, but I do like the tail on #5. Maybe a bash of the two? :thumbsup:
#4 works for me too.
looking good, come in no.4 your time is up :ph34r: :tornado: :thumbsup:
No.2 is better because white stripe starts from "nose" and looks a bit like moustache.
I would only connect white stripe on fuselage with one on tail, like on real Red Arrows Hawk - it's not even so complicated to make masks although it looks it is!
Also, it would be good if white stripe would be much more thinner from the beginning at the nose area - like on No.3 and No.4.
Quote from: AeroplaneDriver on February 27, 2012, 08:09:03 PM
I like #4, though maybe with the white part of the tail flash curving into the white fuselage stripe. Looking good! :cheers:
Ditto. I like the idea of the stripe joining the tail flash. :thumbsup:
I like no.4 mate. :thumbsup:
#4 looks the best.
Regards
Keith
Cheers for the input folks! :thumbsup:
Couple of points that I should have made in the post really:
1. The problem with having the fuselage stripe "swerve" up the fin is that the tailplane is in the way. They get away with it on the Hawks because the tailplane is far enough back, relative to the fin, that the swerve is in front of it, but that doesn't apply on the Gina, whose taiplane is much further forwards. Kitbasher suggested having it follow the line of the dorsal fillet, but I think that makes too much of it non-parrallel to the fuselage.
2. A related problem is that there's no clearly defined base to the fin on the G.91. On the Gnat and the Hawk, the fins are just "stuck on" to the fuselage so there's a definate line where they end and the fuselage begins. On the Gina, the base of the fin is blended into the fuselage a bit like an F-16's wing roots, so there's no defined line.
#4 works for me, im sure itll be a head turner when its completed :thumbsup:
Loks like No.4 has it then!
I was going to say that's the most difficult to mask, but I've just has a sneaky idea on that score...... :wacko:
Quote from: Weaver on February 28, 2012, 09:30:00 AM
Loks like No.4 has it then!
I was going to say that's the most difficult to mask, but I've just has a sneaky idea on that score...... :wacko:
Yes, number 4. But what about an inverted flash? Same position, of course, but running to the top of the intake.
OK, Theme Build - variations on a Red Arrows G91!
;D ;D
number 4 for me also..
REALY like the look of this one... mainly because i love the little G-91 :thumbsup:
Quote from: kitbasher on February 28, 2012, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: Weaver on February 28, 2012, 09:30:00 AM
Loks like No.4 has it then!
I was going to say that's the most difficult to mask, but I've just has a sneaky idea on that score...... :wacko:
Yes, number 4. But what about an inverted flash? Same position, of course, but running to the top of the intake.
OK, Theme Build - variations on a Red Arrows G91!
;D ;D
The idea of having the flash the way around that I've done it is to reconcile the two different "natural" stripe positions, i.e. the high one centred on the nose and the low one centred on the jet pipe. The area immediately behind the intake on mine will be quite "bumpy" too, because there will be a fairing over the cannon port and a bump in the bottom part of the gun bay door too.
No 4 please.... ;) ;D
Airframe basically done:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd165%2Fhws5mp%2FThe%2520Whiffery%2FRed%2520Arrows%2520Gina%2FAirframecomplete.jpg&hash=756eacabd125bb21116fda0869533a9edb5af0a6)
What a pig! I'm beginning to wish I'd gone with the idea of grafting the nice Revell fuselage to the accurate Airfix wings, but it's too late to start again now...
The bulges on the side are supposed to be bulges in the gun-bay doors to accomodate smoke tanks, thereby avoiding the wing-mounted tanks seen on the Frecce Tricolori aircraft. Real Ginas except the pre-production/PAN aircraft (on which the Airfix mould is obviously based) have a small fairing just below the gun door on each side wihch appears to have an intake in the front end of it. I can't find out what it is and whether it's do-without-able or not yet though...
The intake is more than likely intended to remove exhaust gases from the guns firing. There have been many times when aircraft access doors have either blown off or been rather bulged after the aircraft fired their guns for the first time. Making a tight seal is a good idea from the aerodynamic viewpoint but a bad one from the armoury viewpoint. The build up of gases from weapons firing can be very rapid and it needs scavenging quickly.
Quite possibly so - would be nice to see it confirmed though, because the scoop fairings don't seem to be connected to the same compartment as the guns...
BUT
Man am I stupid! So stupid I even amaze myself sometimes. I've spent ages going through the spares box and various donor kits to find something to make the mystery fairings out of, and after looking at dozens of donor kits, I've finally found the perfect pieces: in the Matchbox G.91Y kit, where you might reasonably have expected me to start..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Small extra relief: I don't need two more little fairings to cover the cannon muzzles. I've found pictures of German Ginas with the cannons removed and the muzzle fairing covered by a flat blanking plate, which is quite logical really...
First undercoat of white revealed lots of remedial work to be done, so it's currently a patchwork of filler again...
Any more updates Weaver...? ;D
Funny you shoud say that.... ;D
Did the masking for the stripes last night. The arrow on the underside was easy enough, but the zig-zag side stripe was "interesting". My plan was to draw it out on paper, then use that as a template to cut it out of wide masking tape, flipping it over to ensure that the two stripes were mirror images. Trouble was that holding the fragile piece of paper still against the tape while cutting against it proved nearly impossible, so I thought I had a brainwave: stick it to the masking tape with double-sided tape.
Well it was good in theory, but the trouble was the double-sided tape was WAY too strong to get the paper template off again without breaking it! After much head-scratching, I used the "negative" template (i.e. the piece of paper I cut the template out of) to do the other one, but the result was that I now had one stripe that was very thick (because it had a layer of paper stuck to it) and one that wolud rather stick to my hands that the model because it had the double-sided tape on it.....interesting..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I got the stripes on eventually, then gave it another coat of white to ensure that the inevitable "creeps" didn't show up. Then, just as I was going to bed, I realised that I hadn't put circles in the back end of the stripes for the roundels to sit in.....putting those on will be "interesting", given that one of the stripes is now very thick.... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I realise this might be a bit late but I've some leftover (as of this afternoon) Matchbox Gnat markings - including Red Arrow lightning flashes - if it'll help your build. No fin flashes, I'm afraid.
;D ;D
Thanks for the offer, but they wouldn't help. I've got Gnat lightning flashes too, but they're the wrong proportions for the G.91: to get the main line centred on the exhaust and the front line centered on the nose, the zig-zag part has to be much wider than on the Gnat. :thumbsup:
No probs. Hope the build is going to plan and living up to your expectations - I'm looking forward to seeing the finished article.
Never built a G91.
I was gonna say 3 or 4 so it looks like I get to hang around with the cool kids !
:thumbsup:
Looks a beauty so far. The seat looks awesome !
:cheers: