Thanks to Pyro-Maniac and Green Dragon, I now have the necessary parts to progress with a build I've been daydreaming about for
years.
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I picked up the old Airfix He 177 about a year or two before the Revell Germany kit came out, and its been sitting in its box with some
reference material ever since. I'm going with either a missle carrier or a launch plane ( possible upper components: Huma DFS 346, RG FW
'Flitzer', EMW A-9*, a quartet of Rheinbote missiles. ) hence the blanking off of the upper turrets. Depending on how the sculpting
comes out, I'll be going with either a varient of the B-5 canopy, or just smash mold the original. We'll see. I will at least attempt the quad
turrets fore and aft.
* probably waaaaaaaaaay too heavy, but won't it look cool? ;D
Doc - looks like a fun conversion - good luck - Bernie
...I once had and gave up on :angry: .
Go for it!
The model is looking good. Best wishes on this build. That kit is tough.
Oh, yes, aren't you concerned about the rotting carcass behind the Heinkel on you workbench?
Ed
Looks like you have all the gatherings of a great start! I will be watching this one closely! ;D
Ambitious! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Ed S on April 22, 2011, 06:58:42 AM
Oh, yes, aren't you concerned about the rotting carcass behind the Heinkel on you workbench?
Ed
It's a mad scientist's lab. Best not to ask too many questions.
Cool....but it sure looks like alot of work !
:thumbsup:
I hate to be the thumb tack on your chair but Antares offers this as a resin conversion for the RoG kit, as well as the 274!
-N8
I've got that and I *REALLY* dislike the resin, plus the old Toad Resins conversion but sometimes, it's worth doing it for yourself - if you have the skills and the patience and clearly Doc has both. And sometimes, much vaunted conversion kits are a waste of time and money.
It depends on precisely which 277 Doc is doing as there's about 6 different versions, more if you have the Manfred Griehl book on the type. The conversion locks you into the B-5. The B7/R3 with the deeper fuselage is the one I'd love to have but never will for various reasons I won't go into here.
Thanks for all the positive comments, colleagues! Responses-
Bernie, Ranger- Thanks! I doubt it'll be as colorful of one of Sequoiaranger's builds, but we'll see.
Ed-Its a kit very much of its time. I'm aiming at build that will be state of the art for its period ( mid-seventies,
more or less? ) The "rotting corpse" is an on-again, off-again kitbash/sculpt of Nyarlathotep, from H. P.
Lovecraft. ( One interpretation, anyway. )
Jeremy-Mad? MAD?! I'm not MAD!!! I'm...just upset. ( The standard rejoinder since 1982 ;) )
Captain- Well, a fair amount of grinding, but I have a slight flaw in my character- I like sanding...
Madcatter, Wooksta- I knew about the conversions, but really don't spend that kind of money when I've
got the means on hand to DIY. I had a fair amount of good fortune amassing my collection over the
years, but afte marrying about ten years ago, I suddenly found a host of other things to spend my( and
by that I mean her, disposable income on. <_< ) Sorry to hear Antares resin is problematic-
I like to see companies doing this sort of thing, even if I can't afford to lend my support too often. I
borrowed the Griehl book via inter-library some years ago, and its a B-5, I think, with what might have been the next series windscreen.
Sorry for the second post-after a certain amount of text, the composistion box for the reply gets a bit difficult.
( Probelm with my computer. ) Anyway-this will be a varient on the early b-series, with no changes to the
fuselage or wings, just a new cockpit, tail fins, and of course the four seperate engines. Since I mean it as
a launch aircraft, I'm deleting the upper turrets, and replacing the single tail gun with the HDL MG 131 V
( deathtrap though it was ) and maybe, the MG 81 v under the nose, though that particular installation has
always been a puzzler to me. The only place I've seen it was in Green's book, and it doesn't look like it could
traverse at all... :unsure: The progress over the weekend was largely confined to shaping the canopy mold,
and tacking the inboard nacelles in place. A little Aves, a lot of grinding, a little more Aves...well, you know the
drill. Another picture or two tomorrow evening.
>Sorry for the second post-after a certain amount of text, the composistion box for the reply gets a bit difficult.
( Probelm with my computer. )<
Same with mine, though I had NO problems until my computer crashed a few months ago and something was compromised. So now, if I have a long post, I type it out in MS Word or something, then copy-and-paste it in instead.
>Ranger- Thanks! I doubt it'll be as colorful of one of Sequoiaranger's builds, but we'll see.<
I "see colors" when one of my attendants over-adjusts my meds! :rolleyes:
But seriously, the He-277 was "on my list" a long time ago, but I decided to concentrate on smaller subjects to take up less display space, and sold off my several He-177 kits. *MY* He-277, though, would have been an "He-477", a tad larger and would have had four of the coupled engines, and an "atomic bomb". I have an amazing scale piece of "ordnance" that I think is actually a 12-gauge shotgun police "rubber bullet" that I was going to use as an "atomic bomb"---if you want it for your Heinkel, (or a picture of it to help you decide), let me know!
I fished through my stuff, and came up with my "A-bomb" disguised as a 12-gauge shotgun "rubber bullet". Notice that the fins are canted slightly, to spin it in flight to stabilize it. Might work for a gravity bomb, too! I snapped a pic with a 1/72 figure next to it to give it size perspective. It might be too small for WW II applications, but I think it *LOOKS* really cool! Hmmm. Too bad I don't have TWO of them; one for each wing root, though sometimes the German rocket-bombs were assymetrically carried under only one wing root.
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I refuse to let "politics" dictate my modeling. After all, as an American how could I model an American warplane after how we treated the Indians in the Old West, etc....? I don't think ANY regime has ever considered ITSELF "evil", only OTHER PEOPLE did. I don't condone scurrilous behaviour of any regime, and don't feel that modeling an "instrument" possibly used for evil designs is itself evil or "supportive" of evil behaviour. To each their own.
Quote from: sequoiaranger on April 25, 2011, 01:58:42 PM
and don't feel that modeling an "instrument" possibly used for evil designs is itself evil or "supportive" of evil behaviour. To each their own.
Good point!
Regards,
Greg
Guys - let's not forget this is a hobby - lots of old men playing with plastic, paint on models which are not to scale (check out the fuselage wall thickness for a start) with engines that don't work and wheels that don't turn.
We could get into a discussion of what Adolf's original intentions were but maybe we could discuss the regimes which created the circumstances which allow these dictators to flourish. Should we not model topics from victors the first world war? Where does one draw the line?
Name one country that has not done dreadful things to minority groups for political or financial gain? Even my Australia has done some stuff in the past which we don't shout from the rooftops. Even what we are now doing to several of our country men is not great - but does it stop me from modelling Australian topics?
So let's not forget, this is just a hobby which entertains old men (there probably are some ladies but are a minority). What do we achieve? Apart from self entertainment, we create employment for manufacturers of plastic, resin, paint, magazines and similar. Will we change anything by our hobby - don't think so. But the hobby contributes to money exchange between countries to assist world trade.
Leave plastic to modellers and politics to politicians - its just a hobby.
Quote from: Doc Yo on April 25, 2011, 08:21:45 AM
A little Aves, a lot of grinding, a little more Aves...well, you know the
drill. Another picture or two tomorrow evening.
Doc,
are you doing any surface prep before applying the Aves?? I tried patching some mods on an Italeri JU-188 wing, and found that Aves would pop right off the plastic with a little torque applied, leaving no trace of application!
Believe me, I am not trying to sound alarmist, or undermine your project, I just want to know what I might have done wrong!! I love Aves epoxy, but the lack of adhesion has left me scratching my noggin.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Rotorhead- Re: Surface prep. I don't usually do a whole lot of surface prep, but I have encountered the problem you're talking about. If I'm
spreading a large flat patch over anything relatively smooth, I'l rough it up with a wire brush first. That'll help, but when I 've had this happen,
I can usually just set it back in place with a dash of zap and that sets it solid. The only other thing I can think might help would be washing the
styrene-some companies use a bit more mold release than others, I gather. :unsure:
Ranger- That is a terrific looking bomb! And honestly, it looks plenty large enough to be a proper nuke to me. I'd like to see it cast, as I could
see using it on any number of SF builds.
Some progress, far to go.
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new canopy mold gets close to finish
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Thanks Doc, I appreciate the ideas. I'll have to take another swing at that 188 project.
Doc, what references are you using for this build as I like the look of it and have an old Airfix He 177 in my stash somewhere.
Gondor
Tex- One other thing I might mention. In addition to water, Aves is semi-soluable in alcohol. Wetting the underside of the patch with either might help the adhesion.
Gondor- I'm mainly using William Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich, and a couple pages xeroxed from
the Mafred Griehl book ( He 177,He 277,He 274 ) which I enlarged to get me fairly close to 1/72 scale.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on April 25, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
I have an increasing dislike, now bordering on hatred, of Luftwaffe '46.
...Maybe not the best GB for you :lol:
:cheers: trying to lighten the mood a bit
Quote from: dumaniac on April 25, 2011, 06:23:18 PM
Guys - let's not forget this is a hobby - lots of old men playing with plastic, paint on models which are not to scale (check out the fuselage wall thickness for a start) with engines that don't work and wheels that don't turn.
Speak for yourself, I'm not old ;D
Quote
Leave plastic to modellers and politics to politicians - its just a hobby.
True! Model on!
How do you like this Aves stuff by the way? I hear "works in" better. I'm having a hard time with working Milliput into fine join lines like the fuselage-to-windscreen seams.
Tom- Since I started using it, I like Aves just fine. I still tend to use good old Squadron white putty for very fine
work, but Aves can be thinned to a near-paste consistancy that works well. The drawback is that since it isn't
a "hot" filler, it doesn't react with or bond to the styrene, which, as Rotorhead dicovered can be a bit problematic. I used A+B putty for years after reading about it in Fine Scale Modeler, but Aves has it all over
my old standard. It dries nicely hard, but remains carvable, in contrast to the A+B, which was like marble. Great
if you've done it right the first time, but otherwise... :banghead:
Regarding Wooksta's remarks, I don't begrudge him his opinion, and I don't regard his opinon as an attack on
my modeleing habits and tastes. Given that I was already aware of his disdain for Luft 46 generally, I was
rather impressed that he took the trouble to comment, and to pay me a rather high compliment in the bargin.
I've gone through similar emotions over the years, albeit on somewhat broader terms. In the main, what I
build are models of war machines. Engines of destruction, no more no less. In the meantime, I do what I can
to do some good in the world, and frequently recall a comment made by Stewart Brand in the old hippie classic,
The Whole Earth Catalog. He was writing about an entry on SPI games, one of the bigger war game companies of the 1980's. I'm paraphrasing. " ...a good look at whatever is going to replace war someday. Peace won't. Conflict is too interesting". I hope thats not too glib an answer, but I would like that to be the end of the public discussion.
The He 277 is a great subject to model and the best part is very few models of it are going to be built by other modelers.
About building models of machines used by the bad guys...I don't like the Nazi government for all the terrible things they did but not building models of the aircraft they used will not erase any of the crimes committed or bring anybody back to life so I will go ahead and build them because I like many of their designs and camouflage schemes and not because of the government that used them.
Yes the Nazis were evil but to be fair there is no government now or in the past that is totally innocent of crimes so does that mean we should stop making models of all machines used in wars?
Matrixone
No, it doesn't mean you or anyone else should stop building whatever you want but I for one find Luftwaffe now distasteful at least and I simply don't think I could build them again wth a clear conscience.
The Wooksta!
I am building three Me 262s right now and lately have done some reading about some of the problems the Germans had when trying to mass produce the Me 262, one area that held up production of finished Me 262s was a shortage of wings and the factory that built the wings were falling short of production goals and an investigation discovered that the factory used a lot of slave labor with the slaves actually being worked to death, many slaves died from starvation while at their work stations.
I know what you mean by not being able to build the German stuff with a clear conscience, at times I feel a little guilty for building models of the Luftwaffe machines especially after reading accounts of how some of those late war aircraft used forced labor in their construction, it takes some of the fun out of making models of them for sure but I still like the aircraft designs and the camouflage used on those aircraft are great subjects for modeling.
Sorry Doc Yo for hijacking your thread! :-X
Matrixone
Quote from: matrixone on April 28, 2011, 01:22:16 PM
The He 277 is a great subject to model and the best part is very few models of it are going to be built by other modelers.
Matrixone
I fully intend to build one, once I get the reference material and then gather some parts to help build it.
Gondor
i like the progress your making on your He277, cant wait to see it finished :mellow:
MOD NOTE:
i would kindly ask not to post anymore comments regarding to Nazi and Axis warcrimes.
i have recieved some moderator reports that some pople have a problem on this sensitive subject.
the purpose of the GB is to have fun, if you want to build Luftwaffe aircraft, go ahead.
luft'46 is a modeling subject based on intrest in german technology research at the time, NOT a tribute to facism.
remember, the war is over (see rule 4)
all posts regarding these refernces will now be edited or removed.
Great progress Doc, glad I could assist with the parts. Those sections of wing/cowling you had to remove look massive, didn't realise so much had to be cut out! Hope the rest of the build goes well!
Paul Harrison
Right. Pause for contemplation, aaaaaaand-
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Some progress on the whole, still a lot of psr ahead. Still uncertain about putting
a DFS 346 on top, or hanging a pair of awl-nosed Henschel rocket bombs below...
Besides,
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I got distracted. Big push this weekend, aand yard work, I expect.
I like the progress on the He 277
and the look of that other thing - maybe I could do a 109 with the wing attachments
cheers
The engine cowl/wing interface looks like it came out fine.
Coming right along!
Is that a P-47H (super-pointy nose V-16 types)? If so, that was yet another "dream" whif I had to let go. Are those wingtip pods rocket-bearing like the F-89, or are they jets?
RRRrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmjets! Somebody mentioned the post-war wingtip ramjet experiments, and I
thought if they looked good on a Mustang, they'd look pretty good on a Thunderbolt. The kit is the old MPM XP-47H, which I threw together
last weekend. The jets are cut down fishing bobbers/floats that looked the part. Its not a perfect kit-the wing at the root is maybe
5~10% larger than the corresponding fillet on the fuselage, but other than that, it goes together fairly nicely. If the weather co-operates, I'm going to try and get some Alclad on it this weekend.
Keeping the political side out of it, this looks like an interesting build. I look forward to seeing how it progresses and turns out. And if you are really worried about the political side, you can always paint (sloppily) over the marking and place decals from one of the allied powers to signify a craft captured at the end of the war. Personally, I view this as a hobby. Yes I build from both sides of the war, and yes I wonder "what if." I just like seeing what creative minds can come up with, both in physical form, and hypothetical (and/or reality based) back story.
Nice progress on your He 277, looks good!
Matrixone
Its still aways from completion, I'm afraid. More PSR than I originally expected, and distractions. I'll finish it eventually, but I don't think I'll get it in in time, even with an extension.
Quote from: Doc Yo on May 31, 2011, 08:10:09 PM
Its still aways from completion, I'm afraid. More PSR than I originally expected, and distractions. I'll finish it eventually, but I don't think I'll get it in in time, even with an extension.
I am in the same boat. :-\
Still a few odd details and decal shy of finishing, but I got fairly close by Sunday evening.
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The color is a bit off on this one, but its a nice angle.
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At some point in the coming months, I'm probably going to soak the canopy off and try again-The smash-molding process isn't ideal
for pieces this size, and I overestimated my ability to simulate the framing. Still, not awful for an early effort. This represents a
long range reccon team, the DFS 346 being taken to optimum range by the Heinkel, which then skedaddles back to base. Thanks
for looking, and the next time I enter a GB, I will remember to put some pictures in the 'finished builds' thread... :banghead:
( Blasted absent-mindedness )
Interesting configuration - l like the 4 engines and the camo - nicely done
I like this one! The bulgy glass nose makes it look like a Praying Mantis. I like the "cloud" camo, too!
Did you sprinkle paprika all over your driveway for that first picture? :lol:
I "photoshopped" the dark "blue" photo, took out the "blue", and here is the result:
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Great job Doc, that cockpit glazing looks a hell of a lot better than all of my attempts at crash moulding!
Paul Harrison
That's one fantastic whiff and my hat's off to you, Do Yo!
What you said about smash-forming and canopy framing echoes my challenges.
Still, I think you put together an excellent model that could fool a few "experten".
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
:thumbsup:
Craig, is that the Huma DFS-346? It was a great kit and mine went together in no time.
Did you paint the canopy framing? I don't know if you tried this, but I've made canopy frames by sanding the master smooth, then adding Tamiya tape to the master for the frames. It works well.
Frank
Frank's idea is good and certainly sanding the canopy flat is a good start to any improvement - then of course you have to polish off the sanding marks - no big deal.
Building on the same basic approach, I have also painted clear decal sheet with camo colours and then cut very thin strips and "decaled" the canopy to create canopy frames. If you want to get really particular, make internal green the first colour and then your exterior as the next colour. That way, you see the "internal" frame colour when looking through the canopy.
Both approaches are good - it just depends on your personal preferences. And how much patience you have. Thin decal does tear fairly easily so you need your wits about you.
Yours still looks very interesting