Sort of like the past proposed "Swords into Plowshares" GB proposal, but more open while at the same time more strictly defined.
The idea is that the resulting model must be pure civilian with no armament whatsoever; no military or paramilitary applications (includes police and USCG) allowed. Open to all genres of modeling: armour, aircraft, SF, seaborne.
Examples off the top of my head:
--A Trumpeter LCAC converted to a car ferry
--An M2 Bradley as a firefighting vehicle (sort of like the NASA M113s)
--An A-10 crop duster
And so forth. The only other rule, and this is the tricky one, is that whatever model is done must be repurposed in the true What-If spirit. So no simple things like OV-10 waterbombing bird-dogs, 'cause they exist IRL.
Whaddya think?
Could be a good change of theme from the usual - I support it. :thumbsup:
Regards,
Greg
I like it!
Quote from: rallymodeller on April 10, 2011, 12:41:18 AM
--A Trumpeter LCAC converted to a car ferry
Hm, I have one of those too, it'd look good a more colourful scheme than normal..............
Should be interesting. Couple of questions:
1: not all coastguards are "paramilitary". The UK's isn't, and the RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institute) is not only civilian but volunteer! These folk never use weapons under any circumstances and have almost nothing to do with law enforcement; all they do is SAR. Would these be acceptably "civilian"?
2: does it have to be re-purposed from military to civilian, or is civilian to different civilian allowed?
My FireKing (S-3 firebomber) would work for this.
Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2011, 04:00:44 PM
Should be interesting. Couple of questions:
1: not all coastguards are "paramilitary". The UK's isn't, and the RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institute) is not only civilian but volunteer! These folk never use weapons under any circumstances and have almost nothing to do with law enforcement; all they do is SAR. Would these be acceptably "civilian"?
That's why I specified USCG. The Canadian Coast Guard is the same as the UK's and Japan's -- ours is a department of the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans. Basically I figured that the over-arching theme for this GB should be "unarmed".
Quote2: does it have to be re-purposed from military to civilian, or is civilian to different civilian allowed?
Nope, civvy to different civvy is fine, as I see it.
Actually, the idea came to me as I was doing a reskin for the FS9 Alphasim Lockheed C-141A; the Starlifter was built from the get-go to civilian flight standards and Lockheed actually offered a civilian variant called the L-300. Then I started to think about what other military equipment could have a non-aggressive role...
Good! :thumbsup:
What made me think of those questions was wondering what to do with all the leftover bits and decals once an RNLI lifeboat has been converted into a KGB Border Guard vessel and then looking thoughtfully at one of those Revell Sunseeker luxury yachts...... :wacko:
OK, just had a really wacky idea -- gives one an insight as to how I'm thinking when it comes to this:
FedEx (or UPS, or Flying Tigers) Boeing B-52.
Stay with me. A B-52 can carry an enormous payload a really long way at relatively high speeds, right? Problem is the payload area is kind of restricted.
So since the bomb bay isn't needed anymore, convert it to a standard cargo bay. Same goes for the lower deck, formerly reserved for ESOs. Remove unnecessary ECM and ESM, relocate the avionics to the lower deck.
But that still leaves a lot of payload available in a fuselage that really can't take it. Solution?
Cargo pods. The wing pylons can carry 25,000lbs or more each. Construct an airworthy, pressurized (the hookups are already there) pod that fits on the wing pylon. The entire pod can be removed and swapped at the destination, sort of like an ISO cargo container. Suddenly the BUFF becomes an airborne intermodal transport...
Neat idea! :thumbsup:
Couple of others that have occured to me:
Podded crop spraying system. A drop tank with an internal pump that can be linked to externally fitted spray bars, thus allowing you to convert any military type into a crop sprayer. Doesn't matter if it's a bit draggy - speed isn't an issue. Obviously, things like the A-10 are favorite, and I can also see an Su-25 with a similar system. Model it by putting a mini propellor on the nose of a standard drop tank (to run the pump), attach mounting frames to all the other wing pylons, then link them all up with Evergreen/Brass Rod spray bars and fuse wire pipes.
Disaster Relief Ship. Something I've seriously proposed: use Arapaho principles to turn old container ships into civilian helo carriers for disaster relief, using mothballed helos from Davis Monthan. The fact that it's civilian immediately overcomes lots of problems that have restricted conversions like this: it doesn't have to befast or defend itself and the less-than-state-of-the-art performance of old Hueys is irrelevent. Model it just like a military Arapaho, but leave off the CIWS/PDMS/radar suite.
Quote from: rallymodeller on April 11, 2011, 01:54:42 PMFedEx Boeing B-52.
Don't mean to pee on your idea, and there's no good reason to not do it again, but it's already been done -
link. (http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal3/2001-2100/Gal2005_B-52_Horn/00.shtm) Sorry... But maybe a B-1?
Or maybe a Fedex/UPS etc B-58 or B-70? For those raid deliveries.
Regards,
Greg
Couple of years ago I wrote up the back story for a UPS idea, just need to find the right sized... Nah, that would give it away!
Thinking a bit more, the B-58 would have that nice air drop-able external store...
Would a civilianised Meteor PR 19 in Ordnance Survey colours be acceptable here? ...........even if only to bamboozle the men in black.
what about using a B-47 for fighting Forest Fires? would that work? that was something i've often wondered about. Dan
Quote from: Rheged on April 12, 2011, 12:55:36 AM
Would a civilianised Meteor PR 19 in Ordnance Survey colours be acceptable here? ...........even if only to bamboozle the men in black.
ROTFL! ;D
I love that idea, they'd have to get the only one left out of the Cosford Museum of course....... <_<
Quote from: The Rat on April 11, 2011, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: rallymodeller on April 11, 2011, 01:54:42 PMFedEx Boeing B-52.
Don't mean to pee on your idea, and there's no good reason to not do it again, but it's already been done - link. (http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal3/2001-2100/Gal2005_B-52_Horn/00.shtm) Sorry... But maybe a B-1?
Obviously needs some competition then: UPS Bear? DHL Victor? ;D
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 12, 2011, 01:47:32 AM
Quote from: Rheged on April 12, 2011, 12:55:36 AM
Would a civilianised Meteor PR 19 in Ordnance Survey colours be acceptable here? ...........even if only to bamboozle the men in black.
ROTFL! ;D
I love that idea, they'd have to get the only one left out of the Cosford Museum of course....... <_<
Sorry, couldn't resist another PR 19 appearance. But seriously, any Photo Recon machine from the Bristol Fighter onwards in Ordnance Survey livery might be interesting. Now there's a challenge for the CGI people!
How about some other platform converted for weather recon, along the lines of the "snoopy" C-130? The real life BAE-146-based ARA that replaced it is a looker*, but it's sensors are much less conspicuous, so how about the full "barber's pole" and podded radar?
Possibilities (all with full Snoopy conversion):
Avro RJ
Nimrod
BAC 111
Trident
Canberra (automated avionics with big datalink pod on one wingtip, radar on other and "barber's pole" on nose)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fg3tso%2Fimages%2FAviation%2FSnoopy.jpg&hash=f79b9a6e4a67b47d734426ccee3e2ec8c67293ad)
*The ARA was known as the "Scapheap Challenge" at Woodford, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because it had no BOM (Bill Of Materials) of it's own, so the team building it were always scrounging bits from the regular production line, like contestants in the TV show.
Quote from: Weaver on April 12, 2011, 04:25:26 AM
How about some other platform converted for weather recon, along the lines of the "snoopy" C-130? (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.qsl.net%2Fg3tso%2Fimages%2FAviation%2FSnoopy.jpg&hash=f79b9a6e4a67b47d734426ccee3e2ec8c67293ad)
That reminds me I have a vacform conversion kit for The Schnoz C-130 somewhere. Might be worth getting it out and seeing what else it will fit. The forthcoming A-400M perhaps? ;D
It'll give me an excuse to finish my old Arc en Ciel...I like the idea.
Jet fighters converted to Air Racers, or just painted like Cessna 182s would be acceptable too yes?
Am I allowed to suggest a POLAR BEAR Soviet Arctic research aircraft? Or any flying boat as oceanographic research? I'm vastly impressed with Weaver's thoughts on Met flights.
All are acceptable -- but, for example, a US weather-recon bird would have to be NOAA or NASA instead of USAF or USN (I don't know the UK equivalent of that, sorry), 'cause they can't be military.
Further to the "no armament" provision: Doing fighters and so forth as air racers or fast couriers would be fine (CF-100s and Canberras were actually used like this during the Coronation in '53) but all evidence of guns and so forth must be removed. I'm not going all peacenik here, I just want the rules to be strictly defined.
As to the Ordnance Survey PR aircraft -- that's more than OK. Spartan Air Services out of Ottawa basically made themselves as a company using demobbed PR Mossies and Lockheed F-5 Lightnings so there is a real-world example to go with.
I seem to remember someone in another thread mentioning an R N L I Shackleton........or was it a Nimrod? Either would look interesting in high visibility orange upperworks and a prussian blue underside........or would it be better the other way round?
Quote from: Rheged on April 12, 2011, 08:02:03 AM
I seem to remember someone in another thread mentioning an R N L I Shackleton........or was it a Nimrod? Either would look interesting in high visibility orange upperworks and a prussian blue underside........or would it be better the other way round?
Depends on which way up it is.... and that makes me think....... would RNLI aircraft have to have the same self righting capability as their boats ? :blink:
Gondor
Quote from: rallymodeller on April 12, 2011, 07:56:15 AM
All are acceptable -- but, for example, a US weather-recon bird would have to be NOAA or NASA instead of USAF or USN (I don't know the UK equivalent of that, sorry), 'cause they can't be military.
Snoopy technically still belonged to the RAF, but the ARA is civilian, under contract to the Met Office and a couple of universities IIRC.
Quote
Further to the "no armament" provision: Doing fighters and so forth as air racers or fast couriers would be fine (CF-100s and Canberras were actually used like this during the Coronation in '53) but all evidence of guns and so forth must be removed. I'm not going all peacenik here, I just want the rules to be strictly defined.
They'd probably have to do that IRL: gun ports are pretty draggy. A civvie-owned MiG-27 would make an interesting racer: leave off the GSh-23 fairing and the combination of it's whopping engine and it's swing wings should make it very competitive, if the race is a form of giant pylon racing. The wings would help it turn tightly around the pylons at low speed, the big engine would help it regain speed quickly, and a -27 has better vision and (de-militarised) lower weight. I'm presuming the straights arn't long enough to get supersonic: if they are, then the the MiG-23BN's variable intakes might show to advantage (hybrid?).
Visions of it being cut up by a cheeky VIFFing Harrier in the corners then blasting past it on the straights..... :wacko:
MiG-27 in a modified Red Bull scheme with stars instead of Bulls, white Harrier with red "Virgin Vertical" livery... ;D
Jet Racing as it exists today:
http://www.racingjets.com/about.html
Less than 15 degrees sweep and no afterburner are the basic requirements.
The Reno course:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airrace.org%2Fimages%2Fattheraces_course_photo.gif&hash=87e01e9b507fe29ba6a2d22ad577800397a5cfa2)
http://www.airrace.org/at_the_races/course.php
A much longer course would be required for anything along the lines of a MiG 27. ;D
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on April 12, 2011, 01:17:51 PMA much longer course would be required for anything along the lines of a MiG 27. ;D
Yeah, I think it would be called 'Nevada'. ;D
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on April 12, 2011, 01:17:51 PM
A much longer course would be required for anything along the lines of a MiG 27. ;D
Absolutely! ;D
I was thinking in terms of L or U shaped "pylon farms" at widely separated locations, linked by cross-country stages. It would DEFINATELY be a rich man's game, but then there
are plenty of private warbirds and bored rich men.... ;D
Races for fast jets would definitely be more Bendix than Thompson. :thumbsup:
I really like this idea. I've been in civilian mode for a while now.
:cheers:
Brian da Basher
Hmmm, I've had some ideas for water bombers that I need a kick up teh backside to get going, this might be it.
i do have plans for a Sabena or Buffalo airways Do28 :mellow:
or even an airline converted Bristol Blenheim.
....wait a sec., i remember proposing a GB like this some time ago, called the "demilitarise it GB".