Hi folks,
Does anyone know anything about this new? TSR2 book:
TSR.2 by Tim McLelland
Classic Publications (February 9, 2010)
See here (http://www.amazon.com/TSR-2-Tim-McLelland/dp/1906537194/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2) for more details.
Can't seem to find a picture of the cover anywhere.
Regards,
Greg
If the author is who I think he is, I wouldn't want one even if you paid me.
Would this be by the same author who's supposedly an expert on the Buccaneer and who has caused more flame wars than Red Adair's put out?
Quote from: Barry Krell on March 16, 2010, 05:06:44 PM
Would this be by the same author who's supposedly an expert on the Buccaneer and who has caused more flame wars than Red Adair's put out?
And being a Bucc expert is likely to be as favourable to TSR2 as Mountbatten. Yes it will be sold as an honest appraisal but whats the betting it will come to the conclusion TSR2 big bad idea, should have tated up Bucc for role instead !!.
G
Quote from: Barry Krell on March 16, 2010, 05:06:44 PM
Would this be by the same author who's supposedly an expert on the Buccaneer and who has caused more flame wars than Red Adair's put out?
I believe so. Banned from ARC (at least twice), Britmodeller (at least 3 times), UKAR, PPRUNE - and those are just the ones I know about! Also received a delightful PM from him once. A thoroughly loathsome individual.
The funny thing is, he keeps going back to the forums he's been banned from under a different username, but his odious posting style is so obvious he instantly gets rumbled and banned again! :D Rather like his books, which he used to publish under the name Tim Laming, but felt the need to change that too....
There'll be another TSR2 book out later in the year too. Save your money for that one :thumbsup:
I remember sounding out for books on the Bucc & found on Thunder & Lightnings that the book by Tim Laming is not recommended. They actually state that they do not advise purchase of that volume, rather than just leaving the book out. I think I asked why on a thread here & the basic conclusion was that Mr Laming & that site had had a big falling out & that most here could understand why.
As owner of Thunder & Lightnings I can say there was no "big falling out" as I was never acquainted with the 'author' in question prior to his initial email contact, where he threatened to sue me for mentioning that his books contained some obvious errors. He has threatened to sue me at least 7 times more since then - all bluster and hot air of course. The 'non-recommendations' now on my site are, however, a direct result of said author's theft of pictures from various photographers in order to get himself a job doing a particular book. A job he lost not long after, which was probably related to his behaviour on forums where he slagged off the RAF aircrew involved in the air to air shoots they had laid on for him. A strange bloke. Nev's assessment is one shared by many. I find his books major missed opportunities for the most part, usually with utterly dire photographic reproduction, and would do so even if I didn't know something of his character.
Anyway, as soon as I know of some publication details on the other new TSR2 book coming out later this year I'll post them on here.
I didnt know you were the owner of "thunder and lightnings" Daimien... Id just like to say thanks, while old the site is probably the best starting point ive had for many a project.... Im a fan.. lol
Thanks for clearing that up Damien. I didn't realise you were the owner of Thunder & Lightnings either, congratulations on a very interesting & useful site, like with Chris, I've used the info of some projects of my own, as well some background for whiffs & ideas on here.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: DamienB on March 18, 2010, 07:21:52 AM
There'll be another TSR2 book out later in the year too. Save your money for that one :thumbsup:
Tease!!! Details please.
Regards,
Greg
Well it'll be printed on paper, with lots of words and pictures, and you'll find out a few things you never knew about the TSR2... and the versions they never built... there's a fair bit of material in it that will be of great interest to whiffers...
Quote from: DamienB on March 20, 2010, 02:00:31 PM
Well it'll be printed on paper, with lots of words and pictures, and you'll find out a few things you never knew about the TSR2... and the versions they never built... there's a fair bit of material in it that will be of great interest to whiffers...
Arrggghhh...
TEASE!!!!
Tim McLelland was supposed to be writing an Aerofax to replace Joe's stillborn Aerofax, but then it was dropped (as I heard). Probably this is the same book.
I don't expect too much as he said publicly on PPRune that there wasn't really any unpublished stuff about TSR2 to reveal. He's clearly never been to Joe's house ;) Hell, I even found some stuff on a fighter TSR2 project myself which I sent to Joe :)
hello chaps, just so you know, this book is now out... good/bad/indifferent, I know not... :huh:
There's an article in this month's Aircraft magazine about TSR.2 by Tim McLelland, obviously intended to promote his book. The conclusions are much as expected in this thread - it was all a big mistake, it was no one person's fault, there was no conspiracy, should have bought the Buccaneer.
I have to say that I pretty much agree with the article (whisper the heresy, but I'm not a TSR.2 fan :o) although I'm in no position to comment on the accuracy or otherwise of his research.
I actually tend to agree with you. I know that will mean I'll be drummed out of the site at dawn! Seriously, however I have this suspicion that while the TSR.2 was achievable as an aircraft, the systems which were supposed to make it work, weren't. The Buccaneer however, had quite a bit of stretch in the design and the RN had started out with considerably less of a technological requirement so it was able to fulfill that more easily (and in the end cheaply). If the RAF had been able to swallow is pride - or the MOD had, had the fortitude to decree a common requirement - both services would have gotten something whereas in the end the RAF ended up with having to adopt the RN's aeroplane. However, that of course is water under the bridge and what might have been, never happened.
I've been for sometime trying to figure out how to make a Blackburn P.150 but have yet to get very far. My experience with the Sea Dingo build has built up my confidence considerably and so I'm more willing to give it a go but I still think its a bit beyond my skills yet.
I would wait on Damien's book to be honest, a 96 page pamplet knocked up in 18mths by a Buccaneer fan is hardly going to be the bible on the TSR2.
Rick the TSR2 requirement did actually produce the systems, when asked British Industry did achieve all of its goals and in fact many of the systems then evolved for use on later aircraft. The only factor which worked against them was like the F-22. yes we industry could meet the expectation of the customer but not at an acceptable price :banghead:
Hmmm there'san article posted or linked to over on Secret Projects written by somebody who was involved with TSR.2 avionics development. Reading it, it seems very clear that they were running right on the ragged edge of what was possible, fighting hugely and expensively to wring every last 0.5% of performance out of the components just to meet the basic requirements. There would have been NO stretch in it: any update would have required a complete re-engineering of the avionics at even more expense.
Looking at what was possible even just by the end of the decade for less money/size/weight/risk, I can't help but conclude that the requirement was too far ahead of it's time. Had the whole project been ten years later, it would have worked (technically, politics is a different matter) as the Tornado demonstrated.
Quote from: Weaver on September 25, 2010, 04:13:03 AMHad the whole project been ten years later, it would have worked (technically, politics is a different matter) as the Tornado demonstrated.
Or indeed had the avionics been less ambitious initially, with a view to upgrading within a couple of years - although that would require decent project management and the foresight to realise that the full specification couldn't be met at first, and that the electronics were progressing quickly enough for that to be a viable strategy.