After seeing Spinners Tunnans on his Strike Fighters thread, it seemed like Divine Providence when I saw some on the shelf in my LMS. So I came away with one of the Airfix 1/72 kit (nearly got two) & got it started. It's ended a lull of a few months & I've been hitting in fits & starts.
It's not a bad little kit at all, one of Hellers when they were at their best. Raised panel lines & not much internal detail, but it looks every part a Tunnan. It goes together well, that is until you get to the nose area! There are two options, a J 29F fighter & S 29C recce bird. Both have quite different noses & these are supplied as an insert on the lower fuse. These kind of parts never seem to fit too well on the best of kits & that's definately the case here. I've ended up destroying a lot of the surface detail in the process, I might get into rescribing one day!
Puttied up:
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What's this for??? You can see some of the PSR around the nose ring.
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More to follow.
Simon.
Dangit, I hate when a nice kit turns into a putty monster. I mean I make mine that way on purpose :rolleyes: :blink:
I'm having the same issue with mine. That nose part does not fit well at all...
What will she be wearing, Mossie?
Looking forward to further progress. This sort of fit problem does make a model-builder wonder: How do such flaws happen in the first place and don't the model manufacturers know that their molded product simply doesn't fit (or do they not care)? Realizing that mold tooling costs are their highest expense, I can understand why they might not be inclined to re-tool a flawed mold but wouldn't this make them want to get it right the first time?
And I'm not picking on Heller, either. I think most (if not all) the model manufacturers out there have essential parts that simply do not fit.
Baz, I've always thought that something strange goes on when you get large over & under fitting parts as opposed to side by side parts. They rarely seem to fit properly for some reason. This is a late seventies kit so you expect a few eccentricities, but the rest of the kit goes together fine. The strange thing is, the recce nose has a slightly worse fit. Part of the problem is it's a simple butt join, no location pins to help. I seem to have problems with this kind of join. I've abandoned two helicopter kits recentley & been put off starting a third because the large glazed areas tend to have just this kind of join.
Quote from: pyro-manic on January 30, 2009, 09:13:48 AM
I'm having the same issue with mine. That nose part does not fit well at all...
What will she be wearing, Mossie?
Paint! ;) All will be revealed in due time! She's going to be a J 29R, a proposed radar equipped version that was never built. I've found a description saying the radar would have fitted in the top lip, along with this plan view off Air Vectors. I've seen some pics of Soviet aircraft with a similar set up & the radar would generally sit as high as possible so it restricted the intake minimally. Without a three view, I'm going for the same approach.
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The piece of Milliput was there to act as a surface to drill the nose, I would have caused problems for myself trying to drill at an angle. I started with a very tiny drill bit, then gradually increased it to a 4mm bit. Trouble is, the Milliput split when I got 1.5mm (I'll use a bit of styrene instead next time) & the bits tended to ride up slightly after that, which caused the drill to bite higher than I would have liked, damaging the coaming. Milliput will be my freind once again!
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For the radar, I found a Rockeye cluster bomb in the stash that scaled to pretty much the right diameter when I compared it to a scaled up plan view. With a little bit of sanding, I got the end to the right shape. I glued it in & left it in over night. In the morning it had settled slightly lower than I would have liked, but I can live with it.
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As a spectator, the location looks pretty decent from this end. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Daryl J.
Well, I'm happy enough, but it's about 1mm lower than I planned. Not much I know, but enough for me to realise it's a little lower than my reasoning above! Also, the amount of sanding I've needed to do has thinned the radar a little & that adds to the effect. I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, it was meant to be a quick & dirty build to pick me out of a lull. I'm taking more time at it then I meant to, somethings never change!
In my world that is exactly how the engineers designed it. ;D :lol: :rolleyes: :thumbsup: :wub:
Gap Milliputtied up:
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Coaming re-instated with more Milliput, canopy on primer on:
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Next stage is to paint it. I'm going to attempt to airbrush it, although my efforts haven't been great up until now. I'll report back soon!
Nice rhinoplasty! Watching your work gives me hope for a couple of my projects.;D
Nice nose-job Simon, now for G*d's sake, dont let this one end-up in the 'pending' corner...... come-on get one finished, bud :thumbsup:
Ian
Very slick work on that shnozz ;D :wub: :thumbsup:
Nice nose. It looks like some of the Russian early jets that had similar radomes stuck on the nose.
Ed
Nicely done, Mossie----keep it coming. :thumbsup:
Thanks guys! I was hoping to spray the undersurfaces today, but I didn't get around to it. I'm out tonight & tomorrow daytime, so hopefully I can do something on the evening.
That Sabre-Dog look on the nose is terrific Simon. Your skills and confidence are really coming along.
Thanks Nev, but I've got to airbrush it yet! :o I'm going to use Tamiya paints, these will hopefully give me a better result than I've had with the Humbrol Acryllics. I've had a little trouble sourcing the underside colour, but I've found one that'll be roughly right.
An interesting build, a backup if the A/J-32 program runs into trouble?
Could have been, the J 29R was proposed in 1950, at a time when the Lansen was still in development & still seen as pretty much a strike aircraft. I think the main reason the R variant was not proceeded with was because Saab was very busy building the Tunnan & designing the Lansen. There may have been some early thoughts of developing the Lansen into a fighter at that stage, this may have been a factor too.
I really like the look of your Tunnan and your modifications are a real treat! That new radar nose reminds me of "Kilroy was here" graffiti.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Brian da Basher
Like your project, really! :wub: :wub: :thumbsup:
Thanks guys! Never thought of that Bri, it does doesn't it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hopefully should get some paint on tonight, real life has got in the way slightly, but I haven't abandoned it!
Got the underside on last night & the results were lackluster. The first coat went on well & I was pleased at how well the Tamiya paints sprayed. The second coat, not so good.
A few things consipred against me, the weather was terrible (worst snow for twenty odd years here) & the garage had flooded slightly & it was bloody cold. A wind was whipping under the door blowing the paper I had down & threatened to blow it onto the model. Add to that I wasn't feeling too well. So I kind of rushed it a bit & ended up with over-runs. Another problem is I haven't quite worked out how to control my compressor yet, it tends to easily creep up to 30psi. I'll use a lower pressure next time.
I had a look at it this morning & it's not too bad. No need to hit with the power spray, I can sand the worst bits. I'll get onto that tomorrow evening, as the missus is taking me out for my birthday tonight.
Can't wait to see it. Happy birthday! :cheers:
Many happy returns on your special day, Mossie!
:party: :cheers: :drink: :party: :cheers: :drink: :party:
Brian da Basher
Quote from: Brian da Basher on February 03, 2009, 01:31:19 PM
Many happy returns on your special day, Mossie!
:party: :cheers: :drink: :party: :cheers: :drink: :party:
Brian da Basher
Wot they said ;D
Thanks guys! :cheers:
Here's where I'm up to, first & second attempts at airbrushing using Tamiya paints. The first pic is after a sanding down, but shows the variation in tone I got much better. The second attempt looks better than it is, but you can see definate differences in tone. I'm probably going back to a hairy stick for now, although I don't intened to the ditch the airbrush entirely, I'll pick it up again at some stage.
What's barely visible in the pics, is a 'swirly' type effect, not quite the orange peel you sometimes see, but I think it's to do with having too high a pressure. Part of the problem is that I can't seem to maintain a pressure with my compressor. Keep it on & it quickly gets up to 30psi, turn it off & it drops too low. Not sure what to do about that.
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Keep the faith, Simon and practice thismantra as if your modelling life depended upon it - which it does......
.......Low pressure, two or three thin coats are always better than one thick, Low pressure, two or three thin coats are always better than one thick, Low pressure, two or three thin coats are always better than one thick, Low pressure, two or three thin coats are always better than one thick,
Etc
Ian
What kind of regulator do you have on your compressor?
Ian, Low pressure, gotcha. What would you call low? 10-15psi is about the range I've read.
Baz, ah, you've got me there. It's an old Holding compressor, noisy & large but bombproof. It seems not to have a regulator, I thought it did. Which give some kind of answer to why I'm fairing so badly, I haven't got a bloody clue! I'd like to join a club so I can pick up tips, but the closest one is well over an hours drive away.
I got the same compressor.... regulator works when it feels like - usually in the summer months - learnt to work without by simple trial and error, and there have been so many errors :blink:
Ian
They say that nothing is better controlled than a breathing air cylinder. And they're silent vs compressor's noise. Only drawback is having to refill it.
I've heard of people using tyres too, just pumping them back up when they're deflated. No idea how well they work.
Ditched the airbrush for now, as I just want to get this finished. I've painted the undersides in Humbrol H.166 Light Aircraft Grey/Light Ghost Grey. I think the underside should be a little paler & less of a beige-grey, but it'll do.
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I'll be pushing to get this done in time for Huddersfield on Sunday, deja vu is creeping in a bit!
D O N ' T R U S H I T, that way lies insanity and frustration - take your time and finish it well. You've come a h*ll of a long way in this project and in your modelling generally. Simon, relax ain't nobody going to give you any greif at Huddie for not finishing it.
Chill, enjoy the project and finish it when you're ready..... OK ?
Ian
(Been there, done that, will NEVER do it again !)
Must agree you put so much effort into doing the mods well. If you rush through the finish work you'll just end up unsatified and redo it later anyway. ;D
Don't worry guys! It was always intended as a quick-ish build to help pick me out of a lull since before Telford. The PSR & airbrush problems slowed it a little, but now I'm back with my old hairy sticks it should be plain sailing (he says with fingers crossed).
I'm fairly confident I can finish it for Sunday without messing it up. There's enough time. The question with me always, is if I can keep my motivation up. With one eye on Huddersfield, that should help, as it did last year with my F11F. Then hopefully I can get on with some projects for Telford.
Cool :thumbsup:If your happy we're happy ;D
Mmmmm, chocolate.....
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First colour on. Don't think I'll get it finished for Huddersfield, events have conspired against me. Masking took me longer than I anticipated & it took 31/2 hours to get home tonight due to the snow (a journey that normally takes 11/2). Still, we'll see.
Nifty looking forward to the rest of the paint work :thumbsup: :wub:
Hi Mossie,
Keep it up, don`t fall at the last pub post.
As an aside to your air problems heres a cheap solution to see if regulating works better. Find a pet shop, aquarium shop, somewhere that sell fish, but not a fishmonger or a chip shop, and ask for an airline regulator. Its a small usually plastic tube with a screw in it basically, that fits into the airline from airpumps. Fix it into your airbrush airline as near to the compressor as possible and tighten down for low pressure and unscrew for more air. Shouldn`t cost more than a quid or two. I know it sounds a bit Heath Robinson, but it does work.
Cheers :drink:
Gary
Tex, the second colour'll be slightly unusual (but real world).
Gary, might not be able to do it in the time I've got left, unless I can get out of the wedding of one the Missus's freinds. Although given that only other option would be to loose body parts..... :o Thanks for the tip with the regulator, I might give that a go.
The brown was hand brushed? Really? So why do you need an airbrush again? If I could hand brush like you (or like JHM) I wouldn't use an airbrush as much.
It's not as good close up! The brown was ever so slightly patchy & brush marks are visible. The new Humbrol acrylic paint is okay, but I've heard good things about Valejo & Xtracrylix so I'll be on the hunt for those at Huddersfield.
Bit of a disaster this morning. I put the second colour on last night & removed a small amount of masking before I went to work. The masking has taken large chunks of paint with it. Trouble is, the brown coat was hand mixed, so I'm probably going to have to re-mask it all. Pictures later.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Mossie I have been there an done that. Arcrylics have a hard time sticking to oil based primer if that is what you used. Regular masking tape is very hard on paint. You really need to get some painters blue masking tape. Buy 3M brand .
Thanks Ron, I'll have a look for it. I used the bog standard white decorators masking tape. I've had this reel a few years, & I find it can get more aggressive with time. I deliberately de-tacked it before hand as well. I'm finding the to acrylics quite 'challenging', they have a few problems that enamels don't have. The only benefit for me is the improved drying time.
These things are sent to test us!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Bloody hell Simon, no wonder you pulled up your paint with industrial strength masking tape!!
When you're getting your udders feeled, pick up a roll of Tamiya masking tape, it IS pricey, but by jove it has a razor straight edge, doesn't bleed underneath, and is less likely to lift*. I got some at Cov last year and I can't believe I was stupid enough to try and get by with cheap masking tape all these years
* you may still get lift with acrylics over enamel, paint that hasn't been left to dry long enough, or paint over a metallic colour.
I will second that, Tamiya making tape rules!!!!
AND, many thanks to my wife, AKA Mrs. Santa, who got me my first roll of the stuff. I now have all three widths available.
JayBee
I've got three different sizes of Tamiya tape! I use Tamiya tape for the edges & fill in the middle with decorators tape to save on cost as your both right, it's pricey. Trouble was, when I took the rest off, it peeled in places where both type were used. It's only peeled where I used it on the brown coat, the grey undersides are fine except for a tiny patch which can be quickly sorted out. I should have thought about this & left some of the mixed brown, I knew I'd have to touch up bleed-throughs.
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This leaves me with a three-pronged dilemma. I can mask off the blue areas & repaint, but they're painted over the brown & might suffer the same fate. Instead, I can re-mix the brown, paint over the peeled patches then attempt weathering it, something I've never done before. Or, I can strip the lot & start again, although I've found that Humbrol Acrylics don't react well to Fairy Power Spray. Decisions, decisions, but I'll be ditching the Humbrol Acrylics for the next project. I'm leaning towards the weathering, it'll be the most fun to try at least!
Oh, (in best Rolf Harris impersonation), can you guess what it is yet?
I know photos can be deceiving but your primer looks awfully smooth, bordering on semi-gloss for "primer."
It looks like bare plastic, almost has a sheen back in your first head-on pic of the primer. Should be a dead-dull surface, giving the
paint more "tooth" to grab onto.
Did your paint pull off leaving the primer intact or did it pull up the primer as well----looks like bare plastic where the paint is missing.
Can you obtain Krylon sandable grey (aerosol) primer in your area? It has never let me down yet!
If Krylon is unavailable check into Duplicolor (at auto parts stores) almost as good ,and make sure you get the sandable kind. With the enamel paints if you use Lacquer Thinner instead of regular paint thinner it reduces drying time.
Halfords Grey or White acryic primer straight from the rattle-can..... I swear by it. And next time use the Tamiya tape, Simon, for something as small as a 1:72 Tunnan, it isn't going to eat into your budget in any noticeable way.... trust me :thumbsup:
Ian
It's Halfords (Britains largeset auto store) primer & it's intact, except for a tiny bit that might be due to a light sanding I gave it. I'm not sure if you can get Krylon or Duplicolor here, I'll check some of the smaller car shops.
Halfords is pretty much worshipped by modellers here & settles very smooth, part of it's appeal. I've got a feeling the Humbrol Acrylic isn't bonding to it. I've used this brand before over Halfords primer, both with Tamiya tape & blue tack & not had a problem. The underside colour is Humbrol too (although over the earlier Tamiya coat) & that hasn't lifted. Just one of those things I guess.
I think I will use Tamiya tape on it's own in the future, I started using the decorators tape at a time when funds were much tighter. Saying that, the Tamiya tape lifted it too so wouldn't have helped me here. I should really have kept back some of the mixed brown rather than rinsing it away....
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Sans Primer:
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Mit Primer:
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With no experience with that brand and just going by the pics I would say it does look too glossy . Is it labeled as sandable?
I love it. The radar makes your Tunan look like Jimmy Durante or a proboscis monkey :lol:
http://www.arkive.org/media/92860425-6611-4D78-9FEA-1B4EFF8C9123/Presentation.Large/photo.jpg
Hadn't thought of it like that, it does doesn't it!?! :lol:
Ron, I'm not sure if it says so on the can, but experience says it is. It normally takes paint pretty well. One possibility is that I got my greasy mitts on it, although I usually wash my hands before handling a model. Just before masking I'd washed some very greasy pots, that's quite probably the problem, at least it's the only one I can think of.
Quote from: JayBee on February 13, 2009, 10:20:43 AM
I will second that, Tamiya making tape rules!!!!
AND, many thanks to my wife, AKA Mrs. Santa, who got me my first roll of the stuff. I now have all three widths available.
JayBee
To right!! I never use anything else.
Simon, have you tried doing your filling in with maskol or something like that?? It's something that I do so that I keep theuse of the Tamia tape to the edges areas that need a hard mask. It usually does the job pretty well, so long as you don't make the layer of maskol too thin.
>:( Too bad about the peeling!!! Keep us posted about your 'revised opportunity'.
Daryl J.
Maskols a possibility, I've got some of that. No progress over the weekend, at a wedding yesterday, Huddersfield show today. I'll probably have something to post tomorrow.
Quote from: Mossie on February 15, 2009, 02:15:35 PM
Maskols a possibility, I've got some of that. No progress over the weekend, at a wedding yesterday, Huddersfield show today. I'll probably have something to post tomorrow.
Excuses excuses!!!!.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
Well, I've got a real one now. My brother just announced to me today that he's coming over tomorrow & will be staying with his kids for the next three nights! No chance to get any modelling done in between the 10 year old turning the place upside down & the teenager being bored, but still expecting to be kept entertained!
Decided to risk it & strip the lot. I realised I cocked up a demarkation line on the lower fuse, so I thought, what the hell! Hit it with the Fairy Power Spray & realised the problem I've had before. It was coming away fine, until I partially rinsed the model to see where I was going. Then suddenly the paint clung like crazy, wouldn't come off. I dried it off complelety, hit it again, it came off again, but when I rinsed the gunk out of the old toothbrush, I got a pebbly effect. I assume this problem is unique to Humbrol acrylics, as I guess someone else would have had the problem by now.
Anyway, it's largely stripped & I'll give it a rub down with a green scouring pad to get rid of the worst. I'll start again closer to the weekend. Wish me luck!
Dang Mossie you can't get a break on this one. Better luck my brother. :thumbsup: ;D
Yeah, it's driving me nuts. I'm determined to get it finished, but at the same time I just want to move on to the next project. I'll just slog it out I guess.
Yep it's too cool to give up :thumbsup:
Ron, I hate to say I'm just about at the giving up stage. After the stripping problems & shipping the kids off (did actually manage to get some modelling in, with some Star Wars Easy Kits I bought for them (me???) ;D) I attacked it again yesterday. Thought I'd take a little bit better care of the PSR since I was back to plastic & thought I'd try superglue....
F**k me, it's awful. I've sanded superglue before & it's not my favourite filling medium but never had problems like this, it's set like concrete. I've hacked at it with a scalpel to remove the worst, but it's still hardly responsive to sanding. Unless anyones got any good suggestions for getting it off, this ones going in the spares bin. It would be easier to start another Tunnan kit, which I'm considering, but I've got another project on the go already.
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PM inbound, Simon
Ian
Moss here is your chance to practice some filing......use real files......WRAP them with aggressive sandpaper . When you get the superglue down CLOSE to but not INTO the plastic then go back to your favored sanding medium. :blink:
I've used 180 grit sandpaper which is the most aggressive I've got. I might be able to find some stronger decorating stuff in the toolbox, but it's a hell of a job. I'm slightly annoyed because I asked in the shop specifically for superglue for filling, I didn't expect it to set quite so hard. The rate I've been going with the 180 grit, it'll take days to sort it.
I'm pretty sure it will be esier to buy another Tunnan & start again. I'm ditiching this for now, it's well past the 'quick build' it was supposed to be. The intention was to pop it together to get me out of lull so I could concentrate on some longer projects. It's actually made me look to another quick build!
Bad luck, Mossie. It's a shame you've had so many problems with this - I was looking forward to seeing it finished!
They had a three in my LMS when I picked it up. I might get another if they've still got any when I next go in.
,,,,and it will be finished.
I have inheritted this piece of sh..................adly rejected model from Mossie at SMW 2009 :rolleyes:
It will be finished, the challenge has been accepted.
JayBee has spoken ( and may come to regret it, but I do not think so!)
Mossie has done a damn good job so far, and while it may require some drastic action to be taken, I am confident.
Thanks for passing it on Mossie.
JimB
No problem mate, glad you can use it! I'll have a dig around in the box, see if I can find the other bits & bobs. Have fun! :thumbsup: