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General Modelling Forum => General Modeling topics => Topic started by: PanzerWulff on June 12, 2008, 08:41:53 PM

Title: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: PanzerWulff on June 12, 2008, 08:41:53 PM
I'm starting my reverse delta F-16 and was wondering on ideas for arming the forward canard rails
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi15.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa351%2FPanzerWulff%2FF16delta.jpg&hash=67c042153b648f3bca15ecebb4bf07f4b28b744c)
I was thinking of AMRAAM's on the main wings and some Sidewinder variant on the canards
any ideas opinions etc???
"Panzer"
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on June 12, 2008, 09:05:13 PM
There would be an awful lot of stress on weapons mounted on a moving control surface, especially in hard maneuvering.

Love the layout though.
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Hobbes on June 13, 2008, 12:24:12 AM
Sidewinders are boring. I'd go for ASRAAMs, but any modern short-range missile would do.
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: PanzerWulff on June 13, 2008, 04:31:45 AM
Quote from: r16 on June 13, 2008, 12:05:56 AM
ı am not into engineering that seriously , but I think the main wingd are too back for carrying stores and You would have to use many pylons on the fuselage itself .
With the kit I have available (The Italeri F-16C/D in 1/72 ) the main wings will be a bit farther forward than in the concept drawing,and the forward canard weapons are for use in a close range dogfight primarily. where the ability to track the target in a tight turn would allow the pilot to put weapons on target ehile pulling slightly less Gees than his adversary.Besides I think it would just look cool ;D
"Panzer
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Weaver on June 13, 2008, 05:00:13 AM
Do the canards have to be all-moving? You could say they were like mini-F16 wings, with a fixed core and BIG leading and trailing edge surfaces. That would them make it feasible to mount small missilies on the tips.

As to the missiles themselves, why not "engineer" a Western equivalent of the R-60 (AA-8 Aphid) by shortening a Sidewinder and sticking extra fins on it?
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: sotoolslinger on June 13, 2008, 05:28:54 AM
If your just looking for cool and the canards are going to be moving so you can sort of aim how about a pod full of mini rockets :wacko:
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Mossie on June 13, 2008, 05:41:59 AM
Quote from: Weaver on June 13, 2008, 05:00:13 AM
Do the canards have to be all-moving? You could say they were like mini-F16 wings, with a fixed core and BIG leading and trailing edge surfaces. That would them make it feasible to mount small missilies on the tips.

As to the missiles themselves, why not "engineer" a Western equivalent of the R-60 (AA-8 Aphid) by shortening a Sidewinder and sticking extra fins on it?

I think you'd get a lot of aerodynamic interference from a weapon mounted on such a small flying surface, even if they weren't all moving.  I think you'd need more of a tandem wing if you were going to go with that approach.

I like the idea of modified missiles.  I'll chuck a more modern version of Red Top (or Blue Dolphin, the proposed radar variant) in to the mix, just because it looks different.  Smaller seaker head, small changes to fin shape, maybe a third set of fins near the nose?
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Hobbes on June 13, 2008, 06:46:33 AM
If you're going for an extremely maneuverable missile for use at close range in dogfights, have a look at the Taildog/SRAAM.
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Shasper on June 13, 2008, 11:39:51 AM
AIM-9X wouldnt hurt. . . but I'd saw the canard tips to get rid of the trailing edge "notch" & I'd move the wings fwd a tad so you wouldnt have any clearence issues w/t externals on rotation.

Shas 8)
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Brian da Basher on June 13, 2008, 12:28:07 PM
I'd put the rocket tubes from a P-47 on the wintip rails.

Brian da Basher
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: B777LR on June 14, 2008, 01:11:20 AM
How about fitting something else than things that go whooosh on the wingtips? Such as LGBs? :drink: Would need something that can shove it away from the wing, when it is dropped though...
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Hobbes on June 14, 2008, 03:31:05 AM
LGBs would be different, but wingtip pylons can rarely carry more than ~250 kg (or the weight of an AMRAAM). So anything more than an SDB is out of the question.
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: PanzerWulff on June 14, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
Hmmmmm maybe an advanced longer range stinger variant,I mean the Apache can haul em???
"Panzer"
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: B777LR on June 14, 2008, 09:37:24 AM
Quote from: PanzerWulff on June 14, 2008, 09:25:33 AM
Hmmmmm maybe an advanced longer range stinger variant,I mean the Apache can haul em???
"Panzer"

Stingers are tiny, and really only look like a peice of sprue, when in the launch tube. How about Hellfires?
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Shasper on June 16, 2008, 08:46:52 PM
Too heavy again. . . IR guided ZUNIs perhaps? the Army/USMC is working on a laser-guided version at the moment.

Shas 8)
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: AeroplaneDriver on June 16, 2008, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Shasper on June 16, 2008, 08:46:52 PM
IR guided ZUNIs perhaps?
Shas 8)

You mean AIM-9As..?   ;D


Anyhoo fellas...anyone notice that in 50+ years of rocket and missile development nobody had mounted one on a moving control surface...? 

Hint, hint...   ;D


How about reviving the AIM-7 mount on the main gear doors that they were working with in the 80s?  That would be a nice way to add some firepower.  Perhaps AMRAAMs on the gear door pylons and AIM-9X on the wingtips?  If you want a third layer of missile capability with a small, lightweight close-in missile like Stinger, how about Stingers on the intake, where the LANTIRN pods are normally mounted these days?  That would give 4 air-to-air options; AMRAAM closing to AIM-9X, closing to AIM-92, closing to gun.  The stinger would give a cheaper way to kill a maneuvering helo than the Sidewinder without the aggerssive maneuvering for a close gun kill.
Title: Re: canard delta F-16 weapon suggestions plz
Post by: Rafael on June 17, 2008, 03:08:33 PM
Not so crazy idea.....Tu-138 project

Rafa