Hi folks,
I've previously said that the Catalina is one aircraft I don't think I coul d bring myself to whiff, however I'm brave (or silly) enough to see what you could do. I'll start off with an idea:
New engines - say a RR Griffon as in theSupermarine Seagull:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2F4178L-1SSeagull.jpg&hash=036732f4b876d744af4583df7db8ddabb9719454)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FPA143wingfold.jpg&hash=8adf2b0b40a564ae838fb5e894470bf4cc1f4998)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2Fsupermarine_seagull.gif&hash=ba183c331b8ae11344e2d16d7621499b9998107e)
(Link To Image) (http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/3/5/2/3/9/a728710-5-Seagull.jpg)
What else can you come up with - I'm afraid to look!!!
Regards,
Greg
I can tell you're afraid to look because instad of a pic, your post contained the dreaded red X.
:redx:
How about a Catalina with jets like a DH Comet?
Brian da Basher
I'm workimg on one with turboprops off of a C-130 and replacing the .50 cals with miniguns I'm not sure what else I'm going to add to it it will be a rebel/pirate buster named.......(oh they're gonna hurt me for this one).........."The TURBO CAT"!!!
(Grabs coat and RUNS FOR COVER!!!)
"Panzer"
Don't feel bad gents, my Dad flew PBYs with the U.S. Navy and I'm not offended. WHIFF ON! :thumbsup:
QuoteCatalina with jets
Maybe if they are mounted Tu-72/74 style (got to keep that big radial engined look!):
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2Fan-72-roycoch-2.jpg&hash=ca23b6bfefea5cbc5ee12c4d6e50423fe3c0d7fc)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2Fan72_schem_01.gif&hash=445315864a44da5e1b5f3b66e80b870cf10df999)
Regards,
Greg
Remove the hull for a conventional cargo aircraft.
It's a "Cat" right? Paint it up in tortoiseshell, tigerstripes etc!
Zwilling version. Cat-amaran-alina.... I'll get me coat! :dum:
Manx Cat. Tailless variant.... Umm, where was me coat again??? :dum: :dum: :dum:
QuoteZwilling version. Cat-amaran-alina.... I
Like these:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatifmodelers.com%2Fforum%2Fuploads%2Fpost-2-1103972051.gif&hash=944adf57b227b918ef0df320ea07455ae9239bb4)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatifmodelers.com%2Fforum%2Fuploads%2Fpost-2-1103987770.gif&hash=c3760248185b602d4edd8dda08b988df4bfc4e4a)
Don't like it!
Regards,
Greg
Of course, one could stick to the real world upgrades and simply give the Cat sharper claws:
Four fixed .50-caliber machine guns bolted to the keel proved lethal to enemy barges and other vessels:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2Fquadguns.gif&hash=352998e0fd759b8c23fc366b32951ba03e94b298)
A pair of fixed 20mm cannons mounted in the bow:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2Fdual_20mm_nose-cannon.jpg&hash=8253b83bde302d777bf4ba2fac4a374beb93dbe4)
Regards,
Greg
Civilian operators added a pair of turbo props to the wings so I don';t see why a military version couldn't have them.
QuoteCivilian operators added a pair of turbo props to the wings so I don';t see why a military version couldn't have them.
ah yes the Bird Innovator - the creator should have been strangled for such vandalism. At least only one was created and it was converted back! It wouldn't have been so bad if he kep to radials!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FBird-1a.jpg&hash=6bc3df1ab5dad2a7edfb3f81b758ca40b557e7ca)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FBird_small.jpg&hash=fe1c5e7e75857f28ba9d83cd32e3f31d1f92e8f3)
Regards,
Greg
Wouldn't be bad if he converted them all to turbines. Keeping radials AND turboprops just doesnt seem right.
Thought I'd mess about with a cargo version. Kind of looks like a Caribou or Buffalo.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FConsolidatedPBYCatalinaCargo.jpg&hash=68c68091a5ab9ef73897db3e20d1c5b0e8526092)
QuoteQuoteZwilling version. Cat-amaran-alina.... I
Don't like it!
That's unfortunate - I've got one of these on the go as we speak :ar: However, it keeps getting put on the back burner by other projects :( and so far all that I've done is to build the wing. Maybe a candidate for Phoenix Build II ;)
It'll actually be a Soviet Twin-GST and it'll be quite close to the four engined machine in your post but the tailplane will be at the normal height (and may be left in two sections as on the He-111Z) and the hulls will be connected directly by additional struts. Well, eventually they will - - - :dum:
QuoteQuoteCivilian operators added a pair of turbo props to the wings so I don';t see why a military version couldn't have them.
ah yes the Bird Innovator - ...
Weren't t-props though. GSO-480 Lycomings.
Say 4x Turboprops and ASW gear,reprofile the nose,like the Grumman Albaross to contain a search radar and put a MAD in the tail.you could also possibly do away with the waist blister for post war ops,but these are good for more then just gun stations(like in the maritime recon and SAR roles) so keeping them might not be a bad thing.
Quoteyou could also possibly do away with the waist blister for post war ops,but these are good for more then just gun stations(like in the maritime recon and SAR roles) so keeping them might not be a bad thing.
On that note, didn't the Soviet built ones have the blisters deleted? I suppose you could replace them with somewhat less draggy domes.
I fixed your image links and put them back in your first post to cut down on the confusion factor.
Looking at that Supermarine Seagull makes me want to find those 1/24th scale floats from the Trumpeter Spitfire Float Plane kit. The floats have the right shape and size, all they need are some wings and and engine.
QuoteI fixed your image links and put them back in your first post to cut down on the confusion factor.
Looking at that Supermarine Seagull makes me want to find those 1/24th scale floats from the Trumpeter Spitfire Float Plane kit. The floats have the right shape and size, all they need are some wings and and engine.
Yes the 1/24 float would work, just needs the forward section shortening a bit though. Have a look at the photo I have in my Avro Nottingham thread and you'll see what I mean. I believe Rareplane made a vacuform of it in 1/72 scale, I've been after one for ages.
Robert
Quote
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FBird-1a.jpg&hash=6bc3df1ab5dad2a7edfb3f81b758ca40b557e7ca)
Regards,
Greg
At least they were all air cooled engines LOL
I've always wanted to turn a Cat into a flying houseboat. Throw a couple of dual purpose motorbikes and a zodiac type boat in the back, some bunks and a kitchen. . . Oh yeah. I just have this vision of sitting on the wing with a fishing pole out on a big lake someplace.
This was almost exactly how Jacque Cousteaus PBY-6A 'Calypso' was used. They used to go from location to location with the diving & film gear packed in the Cat, along with a Zoidac. They used to sleep in it & even had a dinner table in the hull! Revell did a kit of it, with a zodiac & diver figures & from what I can gather it's hard to get hold of & is the only correct kit of a PBY-6A.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FPBYCatalinaJacquesCousteauCalypso.jpg&hash=242b696d2acf9feadd12afa9ff9479f99ae1f55e)
Quote(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi176%2FMossie105%2FAircraft%2FPBYCatalinaJacquesCousteauCalypso.jpg&hash=242b696d2acf9feadd12afa9ff9479f99ae1f55e)
It's available
here (http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=6838&searchtext=cousteau)... for $85! :o
If you have never seen the inside of a PBY Catalina, you are invited to check out the PBY Catalina International Association, Cutaway PBY Project (http://www.pbycia.org/pbycia.nsf/CutawayPBYProject/000a). This may help clarify what was inside of the actual aircraft since some of you appear to not be aware of the fact that the Catalina was fitted with bunks, kitchen, and other accomodations to allow some of the crew to live aboard the aircraft when it was moored next to the tender. This was necessary to keep the radios manned as well as to have a damage control party on hand if the aircraft stated to take on water. The bunks and kitchen accomodations were also necessary for the long patrols which required additional personnel for the long endurance missions and a needed place to allow some of the to sleep while others were on watch.
As far as desecrating the PBY, I doubt you could do any worse than the guy that bought a war surplus PBY and removed the wings and tail surfaces and turned it into a boat. There was a picture of this in an old Popular Mechanics or Popular Science that I had at one time. Now that would really get some second glances at the model contest. What would you put it under? Aircraft or Boat?
QuoteI'm workimg on one with turboprops off of a C-130 and replacing the .50 cals with miniguns I'm not sure what else I'm going to add to it it will be a rebel/pirate buster named.......(oh they're gonna hurt me for this one).........."The TURBO CAT"!!!
(Grabs coat and RUNS FOR COVER!!!)
"Panzer"
The Canadian fire-bomber company Avalon Aviation proposed a Turbo Canso/Turbo Cat powered by a pair of R-R Darts.
I'll scan and post their artist's impression later.
Jon
QuoteQuoteyou could also possibly do away with the waist blister for post war ops,but these are good for more then just gun stations(like in the maritime recon and SAR roles) so keeping them might not be a bad thing.
On that note, didn't the Soviet built ones have the blisters deleted? I suppose you could replace them with somewhat less draggy domes.
The pattern aircraft for the Soviet-built version, the GST - Gidro Samolyet Transportnyi or seaplane transport, were a Consolidated Model 28-1(c/n C-1, NC777,
Guba ) and three Model 28-2 (c/n C-2 and two aircraft in "kit" form). The aircraft were a commercial variant of the PBY-1 series and as such never had the side blisters. The 28-2 aircraft were powered by close cowled Wright Cylone R-1820-G3 engines rather than the usual P&W R-1830, the reason for this was that the Soviets were already producing the Cyclone under license as the M-62. The exact number of Soviet produced Model 28s is unknown, most agree that it was less than thirty.
The first aircraft had an interesting history:
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/arti...les/commandeur/ (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/commandeur/)
The Soviets later received 137 of the Naval Aircraft Factory produced PBN-1 Nomad and 48 PBY-6A.
Soviet designation of the Nomad was KM-1, some aircraft were later re-engined with 1,850hp Ash 82FN engines and were redesignated as KM-2.
Removal of the blisters is a common post-war modification.
Jon
A number of years ago I was part of a 'consortium' that was going to try to buy one of the Soviet KM-1's as a restoration project. Unfortunately, the whole deal fell through so we didn't get anything. Still, it's was the closest I came to being a part (all-be-it a small part) owner of a 'Catalina' - sigh!!!! :( .
Regards,
Greg
Just found this over on HS
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe362%2Fstratofortress%2FAC_PBYOY_V189overSanDiego_300.jpg&hash=44491c82b2da8755be0767192e9b9e99f5e357c1)
Turbo-Canso
Skybarge, proposed cargo mod, the entire blister area became a large sliding hatch.
BTW the Bird Innovator and few other Cats/Cansos actually were used as 'flying motorhomes'.
One semi-popular modification was a pair of dinghies slung under the wings.
Jon
Me and tophe did a whole bunch of them over here:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...?showtopic=4626 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=4626)
Ok, I don't mind the R-R Dart powered Turbo Cat.
Regards,
Greg
Quote from: kitnut617 on December 29, 2007, 06:57:35 PM
Quote
Looking at that Supermarine Seagull makes me want to find those 1/24th scale floats from the Trumpeter Spitfire Float Plane kit. The floats have the right shape and size, all they need are some wings and and engine.
I believe Rareplane made a vacuform of it in 1/72 scale, I've been after one for ages.
Robert
A few months ago I manage to get one, very nice little kit it is too.
Has anyone been keeping up with Jorge Wolf's 1/48th scale PBY Catalina (http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Flugzeuge/Gaeste/Wolf_Catalina.html) WIP? The quality of his work is enough to make one consider seriously taking up knitting.
Quote from: Jeffry Fontaine on July 05, 2009, 04:26:35 PM
Has anyone been keeping up with Jorge Wolf's 1/48th scale PBY Catalina (http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Flugzeuge/Gaeste/Wolf_Catalina.html) WIP? The quality of his work is enough to make one consider seriously taking up knitting.
Whoa!!!
Regards,
Greg
would a catalina with two RR dart turboprops work ok?
I don't see why not. A turbo Cat might give some the old girls a new lease of life.
'specially as mossie i was intending to use some RAF neptune MR.1 markings and an all-over dark blue finish. :wacko:
the darts would come from the airfix friendship kit.
the one problem i do have is ideas for a suitable radar fit. i want something less ugly than the catalina with the radar pod behind the cockpit and wing
mounted ASV aerials would not be appropriate for early 1950's i think.
How about a radome mounted on the front like the Albatross? Could use the thimble nose or the later Jimmy Durante style. Nose turret would probably have to go but maybe not.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warbirdalley.com%2Fimages%2Fhu16.jpg&hash=5f365f1110f568ee56e69e89cc8177547d9f5699)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acig.org%2Fartman%2Fuploads%2Fcy11.jpg&hash=d8d8f12dffa8bb511f4473b30593a2944f1d6adc)
Aerials probaly wouldn't be, but pods, as seen on some Skyraiders, probably would.
Quote from: Howard of Effingham on December 03, 2010, 04:07:33 AM
'specially as mossie i was intending to use some RAF neptune MR.1 markings and an all-over dark blue finish. :wacko:
the darts would come from the airfix friendship kit.
the one problem i do have is ideas for a suitable radar fit. i want something less ugly than the catalina with the radar pod behind the cockpit and wing
mounted ASV aerials would not be appropriate for early 1950's i think.
How are these:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2FCats.jpg&hash=f23b889017dc3010085baceee090ff0f2b9cc90d)
Regards,
Greg
I wonder how many people even remember who Jimmy Durante was?
Ah cha cha cha... :lol:
Hi all,
Interesting topic that led me to register... I've been working for several months on a concept of turbine-powered PBY inspired by the Basler conversion.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freylia.net%2Fpf%2Fdesigns%2FPBY-7AT_base_no_marks_s.png&hash=114ce5cc33e0cb80c43df48cbd94f58b876a3f89)
I'm trying to model it digitally but feel free to take a shot if that inspires you :) you'd probably have to redesign the steps a bit, like the Nomad, that's my focus at the moment...
More info and drawings at http://www.freylia.net/pby7at.html
Feedback welcome!
Quote from: GTX on December 03, 2010, 12:19:12 PM
How are these:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2FCats.jpg&hash=f23b889017dc3010085baceee090ff0f2b9cc90d)
Regards,
Greg
I like it. A few real world worries with a DART however, that proposed drawing puts the blade arcs nearly directly in the path of the pilots-noise, spray, debris and throwing a blade would be of concern :-\ Perhaps mount them a little further back. Weight is not much of an issue-pretty close to the original engines. Also worried that the DART might be too much power for such a high thrust line. Changes in thrust would cause massive trim changes, and engine out performance might overwhelm the flight controls. Perhaps throw some additional vertical surfaces on the tail like the CL-415. Another high thrust, high thrust line aircraft, the AN-32, seems to be quite a handfull and has done poorly in engine out scenarios.
But this being WHIF, DARTS on anything look great- go for it. :thumbsup:
Personally, I think the nacelles shape from the Turbo-Dak would suit it better, like how I'm doing this Sunderland
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa263%2Fkitnut617%2FShort%2520Sunderland%2520Turboprop%2520Amphibian%2FSunderlandnacelles009_zpsacf19368.jpg&hash=98460ccc18c405b9c8f67fca57c2ab2d52ae1334) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/kitnut617/media/Short%20Sunderland%20Turboprop%20Amphibian/Sunderlandnacelles009_zpsacf19368.jpg.html)
I'm having the exhaust go up & over the wing
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa263%2Fkitnut617%2FShort%2520Sunderland%2520Turboprop%2520Amphibian%2FDartNacelles005_zps77f96418.jpg&hash=40e9f957b9369f7c7d473b27ddf095aca720b581) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/kitnut617/media/Short%20Sunderland%20Turboprop%20Amphibian/DartNacelles005_zps77f96418.jpg.html)
Quote from: sandiego89 on July 07, 2014, 11:55:09 AM
I like it. A few real world worries with a DART however, that proposed drawing puts the blade arcs nearly directly in the path of the pilots-noise, spray, debris and throwing a blade would be of concern :-\ Perhaps mount them a little further back. Weight is not much of an issue-pretty close to the original engines. Also worried that the DART might be too much power for such a high thrust line. Changes in thrust would cause massive trim changes, and engine out performance might overwhelm the flight controls. Perhaps throw some additional vertical surfaces on the tail like the CL-415. Another high thrust, high thrust line aircraft, the AN-32, seems to be quite a handfull and has done poorly in engine out scenarios.
But this being WHIF, DARTS on anything look great- go for it. :thumbsup:
I think the DART engines in that profile are actually taken from a Grumman Albatross that was really converted with DARTs in the real world
The Conroy Albatross
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rob.clubkawasaki.com%2Fjas4443.jpg&hash=4687bd5f19aec3e00307f89ab89269bb1b964897)
close enough for a shave!
I wonder if you could gain a few inches by mounting them a bit further aft on the wing. Though eventually the spar would be in the way of course...
Those nacelles come straight off an Andover but the engine could go backwards as it sits mostly over the spar. There'd be a problem with cg though which is why they are so far forward.
Quote from: sandiego89 on July 07, 2014, 11:55:09 AM
Quote from: GTX on December 03, 2010, 12:19:12 PM
How are these:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe68%2FGTwiner%2FMore%2520Creations%2FCats.jpg&hash=f23b889017dc3010085baceee090ff0f2b9cc90d)
Regards,
Greg
I like it. A few real world worries with a DART however, that proposed drawing puts the blade arcs nearly directly in the path of the pilots-noise, spray, debris and throwing a blade would be of concern :-\ Perhaps mount them a little further back. Weight is not much of an issue-pretty close to the original engines. Also worried that the DART might be too much power for such a high thrust line. Changes in thrust would cause massive trim changes, and engine out performance might overwhelm the flight controls. Perhaps throw some additional vertical surfaces on the tail like the CL-415. Another high thrust, high thrust line aircraft, the AN-32, seems to be quite a handfull and has done poorly in engine out scenarios.
But this being WHIF, DARTS on anything look great- go for it. :thumbsup:
All of which are probably why the Avalon proposal mounted the Darts
below the wing. ;)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FTURBO-CAT_01.jpg&hash=2bc6e81968db19edbfdbb85cbb9f650424885173)
[/quote]
All of which are probably why the Avalon proposal mounted the Darts below the wing. ;)
[/quote]
Below the wing does look good.
Hi team,
Here's another artist's rendition from "PBY: The Catalina Flying Boat" by Roscoe Creed of the Avalon Turbo Cat.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh455%2Fharrysone%2Fartists_zpsea6049eb.jpg&hash=38d2bb1dbad35020c1b0f37372f48a57860cade7)
Info from that book: "For some Cansos the future may hold a different look and a different sound. Avalon Aviation is considering planes to replace the reciprocating engines of its Cansos with Rolls Royce Dart turboprop engines, creating a "Turbo Cat" that would outperform even the Super Cats. Because the planes are based on land and scoop their loads from fresh water lakes and rivers, none of the corrosion problems attendant on turbine-powered seaplanes which operated on salt water after the war would be likely."
And a 1/144 build of it at another forum I frequent, where I first saw the pic: http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/22460/turbine-dart-engined-canso-catalina (http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/22460/turbine-dart-engined-canso-catalina)
A turbine Cat would be a good way to combat lack of P&W/Wright engine spares but - like the unflown Dart Mustang in Australia - perhaps extra (drop?) fuel tanks would be needed? Or would the Cat already have enough capacity to make it feasible? Military variants upgraded? It certainly has my mind working!
Hi,
I'm using the engines from the CL415 to create a turboprop variant of the Catalina.