Using Trumpeters FGA.6 (is that the designation??....the one with the shorter tail anyways), make a prototype Seahawk that never existed but make it credible enough that the Intelligensia will do a double take :thumbsup: and doubt their knowledge base: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Rounded wing tips, option of ogival curved wing tips
Reduce the tail height a bit making it more rounded as well as curve the back of the rudder.
Eliminate or reduce the bullet fairing in front of the horizontal stabs.
Revised underwing tanks.
Add canopy framing a bit
EDSG/White(?Sky) Was there ever a RAF option? If not, DG/OG over MSG.
She's a pretty bird to begin with and this should escape 'uglifying' it. B)
:party: :party: :party: ,
Daryl J.
[edit]---What if the machine had a career length similar to the Hunter or the similarly engined Lockheed T-33?
Could alter the gun ports and bulge associated areas, say giving at a pair of 30mm ADEN?
QuoteAs for the bullet fairing on the tail, you can't take it off because it's there for a reason, an aerodynamic one, something to do with airflow and buffeting. Can't quite remember which.
Without it, the interferences between the airflow over the horizontal tails and around the vertical tail interfere at speed and create severe buffet. Same reason there's a similar bullet on most Meteors.
So that's what the bullet is for. I'd wondered ever since building the AMT Meteor as a kid back when the dinosaurs were just dying out. Thanks!
The Meteor is another whiffer too, or Venom, or Sea Vixen, or Victor, or Vulcan, or Nimrod, or Javelin, or Canberra, Buccaneer, or....well, as it stands, this Yank just loves things English. :thumbsup:
Who is/are GAF?
How was the machine's performance compared to a F9F-x Panther? Perhaps the USMC used a Seahawk variant as a strike machine. GSB overall....mmmmm....
Daryl J.
I'm sure someone from Australia could answer with more assurance, but I believe GAF=Government Aircraft Factory or something close to that.
QuoteUsing Trumpeters FGA.6 (is that the designation??....the one with the shorter tail anyways), make a prototype Seahawk that never existed but make it credible enough that the Intelligensia will do a double take :thumbsup: and doubt their knowledge base: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Rounded wing tips, option of ogival curved wing tips
Reduce the tail height a bit making it more rounded as well as curve the back of the rudder.
Eliminate or reduce the bullet fairing in front of the horizontal stabs.
Revised underwing tanks.
Add canopy framing a bit
EDSG/White(?Sky) Was there ever a RAF option? If not, DG/OG over MSG.
She's a pretty bird to begin with and this should escape 'uglifying' it. B)
:party: :party: :party: ,
Daryl J.
[edit]---What if the machine had a career length similar to the Hunter or the similarly engined Lockheed T-33?
What you are proposing is close to the P.1040:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abpic.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fimages%2F1065463F.jpg&hash=dd48da664d4a959e5614175e7cd016607e751f97)
The P.1040 was originally tendered to the RAF, they weren't interested, however, the Admiralty saw some potential and the design was developed into the Sea Hawk.
The P.1040, VP401, was used in the National Air Races and on August 1, 1949 won the SBAC Challenge Cup at an average speed of 510mph.
The aircraft later had an Armstrong-Siddeley Snarler rocket motor fitted in the rear and was renumbered the P.1072.
The P.1040 originated from the P.1035 project, which was a jet conversion of the Fury.
Cheers, Jon
Jon,
That definately gives ideas as to where to go. The P.1040 was previously unknown to me until tonight. Visualise removing about a hand-width off the top and adding the same hand-width to the rudder immediately aft the horizontal stabs and 'smooth the curve' to get the idea of a new fin. Bullet remains I guess albeit in modified form. And it looks as though rounded wing tips better be added to further separate the kit from the real P.1040.
Thanks for the photo. I about dropped my jaw when it looked like that. :o
Daryl J., up far too late doing laundry for the dogs
PS: The Aden idea is great! Would it fit?
The Hawker projects that were contemporaries of, and related to, the Sea Hawk.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FBTS%2FP1040_01.jpg&hash=d6b4bdca6015b2072c29b798a09ecbf75b70e469)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FBTS%2FP1072_01.jpg&hash=2e7e6e99e5b33df55213754681945af645a49992)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FBTS%2FP1052_01.jpg&hash=5afbaaacba01e9fe4931c5046bfdd63510883b93)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi729.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww291%2Fjoncarrfarrelly%2FBTS%2FP1081_01.jpg&hash=5353ec36ef764c3dc9a0194a809a733223de22aa)
Cheers, Jon
For the longest time, Hannants had a Maintrack 1/72 Hawker P.1040 on sale. I bought a couple of them as there were parts in the kit to do the P.1072 as well, which had the Snarler tail.
But as always happens, when you go to look again to post a link, it's gone.
Sorry
Robert
Edited
Wow! So it looks like a P.1040-meets-Seahawk-meets whiffer is a reasonable option. Also, it looks like the P.1052 wing could get added to the Mk.101 and be reasonable as well. That might look good in Danish overall dk. green and heavily weathered.
Thanks again guys!!!!
Daryl J.
QuoteThere's a load of other Hawker projects based on that airframe but I don't have the references to hand at the moment. P.1062 and P.1068 ring a bell though, and there's a variant of the P.1052 that has a rocket up the back too.
From 'Hawker Aircraft since 1920' by Mason.
P.1040: P.1035 with one R.R. B.41 in fuselage, became Sea Hawk.
P.1042: Variation of P.1040, schemed only.
P.1043: P.1040 without undercarriage, led to trials.
P.1045: Naval version of P.1040, schemed only.
P.1046: Naval version of P.1040 with rocket boost, schemed only.
P.1047: P.1046 with extreme sweep-back, schemed only.
P.1052: P.1040 with swept wings to Spec. E.38/46, two built VX272 & VX279.
P.1062: P.1052 with AS65 engine, schemed only.
P.1068: P.1040 with R-R R.B.66 engine, project design only.
P.1072: P.1040 with Snarler, conversion of VP401.
P.1075: P.1062 with Nene engine, schemed only.
P.1078: P.1052 with rocket, schemed only.
P.1080: P.1052 to Australian requirements, later embodied in P.1081.
P.1081: Development of P.1052 with Nene or Tay, Australian requirements investigated.
P.1087: Naval version of P.1081, project design only.
P.1094: P.1072 with thin wings, schemed only.
Lots of possibilities. :)
Jon
QuoteThe Meteor is another whiffer too, or Venom, or Sea Vixen, or Victor, or Vulcan, or Nimrod, or Javelin, or Canberra, Buccaneer, or....well, as it stands, this Yank just loves things English.
British?
QuoteBritish?
Boy oh boy is that a leftover from my early days of school. :huh: We were actually taught that England and Great Britain were the very same thing. Sorry.
At least I didn't refer to it as a former French Territory as do some people I know..... :o :o :o
...........back to regular programming.......
Daryl J.
Do I understand correctly this is a factory color for the Seahawk, odd markings excepted?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk%2Fseahawk%2Fgraphics%2Fshawk2.jpg&hash=c8e0d4203548a95c48a2fcf8e075c6c725571d99)
Post Office Red had been on the whifflist but if it is real...............
TIA,
Daryl J.
PS: Note Trumpex' deformed canofpeas--->not that it's any news
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipmsdeutschland.de%2FAusstellungen%2FNuernberg2007%2FBilder%2FTrumpeter_Seahawk_Marine.jpg&hash=5bef23c32cba818cefbc622d2e7241ec299af9c6)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipmsdeutschland.de%2FAusstellungen%2FNuernberg2007%2FBilder%2FTrumpeter_Seahawk_Suez.jpg&hash=594dad201fdbec6cc57c37a226cfa7ce609a255f)
:banghead:
I'm itching to put Hawker's signature tail right here:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cybermodeler.com%2Fhobby%2Fkits%2Ftru%2Fimages%2Ftru_2827_parts3.jpg&hash=3765b2d3542da75a07088905013afd45972d4359)
and hoping to put on it the two RAF Harrier RAF greens.
Daryl J.
Hobby Boss's 1/72 Sea Hawk FGA.6 is nearly with us, so holy thread revival.
The main question I've got is what would it take to backdate the FGA.6 to earlier variants? As far as I'm aware, the Sea Hawk didn't differ much externally through the marks, except for the tail on the German Mk.100 & radar pod on the Mk.101. Anybody who actually has some attention to detail willing to shed any light?
Shameless self promotion, profiles here for anybody wanting inspiration:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,19753.0/highlight,hawker+sea+hawk.html (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,19753.0/highlight,hawker+sea+hawk.html)
Two more questions:
Was a two seat Sea Hawk ever drawn up, tandem or side-by-side? I haven't been able to find reference to one on Secret Projects or in BSP Jet Fighters.
What was the reason for the taller tail on the German Mk.100/101's? Was it a general improvement, or a requirment specific to the Marineflieger? I ask beacause the last Sea Hawks to be built were short tailed aircraft for the Indian Navy.
I'm not aware of a two-seater and there isn't one mentioned in my Putnam's "Hawker Aircraft Since..."
I suspect the taller tail was there because of the radar drop tank. If they dropped the off-side one which contained fuel, they'd need the taller tail to counter the swing?
A side-by-side trainer would look good, could use the canopy off a Jet Provost Mk3 ;D
Been done - Gary did one ten years back from an Airfix kit and used a Venom canopy. IIRC, Terry did a tandem one with an Airfix kit and a Meteor spine.
Try finding an Airfix JP3! And the canopy is awful!
And yes, there were tandem and side by side two seaters drawn up. I was given some plans years back by Alan Ritson who ran the Hawker SIG.
Quote from: Mossie on February 22, 2011, 06:19:39 AM
The main question I've got is what would it take to backdate the FGA.6 to earlier variants? As far as I'm aware, the Sea Hawk didn't differ much externally through the marks, except for the tail on the German Mk.100 & radar pod on the Mk.101. Anybody who actually has some attention to detail willing to shed any light?
IIRC, it's mainly just differently placed vents for different marks of RR Nene.
Quote from: The Wooksta! on November 23, 2011, 04:47:29 AM
Been done - Gary did one ten years back from an Airfix kit and used a Venom canopy. IIRC, Terry did a tandem one with an Airfix kit and a Meteor spine.
Try finding an Airfix JP3! And the canopy is awful!
And yes, there were tandem and side by side two seaters drawn up. I was given some plans years back by Alan Ritson who ran the Hawker SIG.
Poo! I thought I'd come up with that idea and it's on my 2012 'to do' list. PLanning to use a Vampire T10 front end and canopy, plus the taller Mk 100 fin/rudder. Would be keen to see the plans you refer to Lee.
I'd have to remember where I put them. IIRC, Alan had done some research at Brooklands and redrew the plans himself.
Quote from: kitbasher on November 23, 2011, 05:16:55 AM
Poo! I thought I'd come up with that idea and it's on my 2012 'to do' list. PLanning to use a Vampire T10 front end and canopy, plus the taller Mk 100 fin/rudder. Would be keen to see the plans you refer to Lee.
Ditto, but mine was going to be tandem seating. :o
Quote from: JayBee on November 23, 2011, 06:02:59 AM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 23, 2011, 05:16:55 AM
Poo! I thought I'd come up with that idea and it's on my 2012 'to do' list. PLanning to use a Vampire T10 front end and canopy, plus the taller Mk 100 fin/rudder. Would be keen to see the plans you refer to Lee.
Ditto, but mine was going to be tandem seating. :o
Well we could still both do one each - mine side-by-side, yours tandem (the first 'duo build'!) , and we put them together when we're at the same show at whatever point next year. Will you be using the Airfix 'gift set' version?
Hobby Boss Mk100/101 that I just happened to pick up at Telford. :rolleyes:
Jim
I'd like to see a two seat P.1081, possibly using a Hunter T-bird front end.
Im actually building the 1-72 hobbyboss seahawk right now.. I do have some questions though... How is this kit for acuracy? As im building it as a replacement for an old Airfix Seahawk in a cabinet but ive noticed serious differences in shape, length ect.... And not just around the intakes/exhusts... :-\
Slightly surprised to find that there wasn't a thread for these.. (if there is, the mods, please merge).
Anyway, been thinking a lot about Sea Hawks lately, and there have been some interesting suggestions and models, so I thought I'd put them in one place.
Tandem two-seater.
Side-by-side trainer using either a Hunter T.7 (Glenn's recent model) or a Vampire T.11 front end.
Side-by-side night fighter using a Sea Venom front end.
Stretched version, analogous to the later Banshees, with fuselage plugs either side of engine. Could be a night fighter or a bomber.
V-tailed version.
Tip tanks.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,17860.0.html
;)
On the case.
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on May 08, 2015, 02:02:54 PM
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,17860.0.html
;)
Aw, crap... and I did a load of searches too... :unsure:
Can somebody merge the threads please?
The search engine on here does leave something to be desired. I've tried some pretty obvious searches in the past and it's steadfastly refused to 'see' the thread I was looking for, even though boiler-plate procedures finally found them.
Quote from: PR19_Kit on May 09, 2015, 03:53:05 AM
The search engine on here does leave something to be desired.
I think that's an understatement :banghead:
Gondor
Simple one, recce nose. The Sea Hawk had a pretty good ceiling but I'm sure longer wings wouldn't go amiss...
If the RAF ordered the P.1040, maybe itwould have been used for prone pilot studies like the Meteor. Take the MPM prone Meteor and add the nose on the Sea Hawk instead. It might be as easy to adapt a large drop tank.
October's Aeroplane magazine has an article on the P.1072 - the P.1040 prototype fitted with a 2000lb thrust AS Snarler rocket.
This goes with large, multi-article feature on the SR.53 and SR.177.
Upgraded Sea Hawk (with radar)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/j340/ysi_maniac/radarSeaHawk(1).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/ysi_maniac/a/caec78e4-057f-4fe9-82f4-083a43455765/p/9c951fd0-2d08-4ed8-a2bb-11816571b427)
Currently working on a Seahawk with meteor wings and engines....Lets burn some jetfuel!
David aka 63cpe
I like that :thumbsup: