What if

I am pleased to announce that Freightdog Models next kit release will be the much requested Hawker P1154 'Supersonic Harrier'. Mastered and cast by Anigrand Craftsworks, the kit will represent the variant due to go into service with the RAF (that was replaced by the Phantom FGR.2), and will also include clear resin parts for transparencies along with screen printed 'what-if' decals for RAF options by Fantasy Printshop.
Plan is to release the kit at SMW in November, although it is hoped to be able to offer a few kits to what-if SIG members possibly one month earlier, all things going to plan!
Special thanks to Mike Pryce for access to his research to make the the most accurate kit of an aircraft that wasn't built, ever!
Will keep you posted.
Colin

Great news.   Nice one colin

Excellent news, even more so with having Mike Pryce (aka Harrier) on board with the project.

After building the vacform and discovering the various flaws in that one a proper kit to Anigrands standard its certainly one i'm going to be picking up more than one of  :D .

Cheers

Geoff

:party:  

Scale???

Regards,

Greg

Scale is 1/72.
Colin

:party: ok so that is five i want already for basing in coventry.  :cheers:

:thumbsup:  :salute: colin :bow:  :wub:  

Great news Colin

Chris

Alright!!   erm! what do I do with my Maintrack one now?

Robert

*rasp*  

*rasp*

*RASP*

QuoteAlright!!   erm! what do I do with my Maintrack one now?

Robert

You could always turn the vacform sheet upside down and use it as a paint tray? :dum: Colin    

Quote

QuoteAlright!!   erm! what do I do with my Maintrack one now?

Robert

You could always turn the vacform sheet upside down and use it as a paint tray? :dum: Colin

:lol:  :thumbsup:  nice one

YES !!!

:bow:  

I'll have one!!!  Or maybe two, or three, or.......

Now I'm just gonna sit around and hope that Colin'll do a P.1211 next (hint hint)

Alright!! erm! what do I do with my Maintrack one now?


Sell it to me?

Kim M

Well, if the demand is there for any of the F155T proposals or P.1121 I have the necessary research to make kickass models.

Paul.

QuoteWell, if the demand is there for any of the F155T proposals or P.1121 I have the necessary research to make kickass models.

Paul.

Noted Paul for future reference.....
Colin

QuoteAlright!!   erm! what do I do with my Maintrack one now?

i'll do yer a swap deal robert if yer like.  ^_^  :P  :ill:  :salute:

can we come to some arrangement, PM me if yer can.

trevor

Colin, are you planning on doing the RN version as well?  personally, that's my favorite out of the two version.

Robert

QuoteColin, are you planning on doing the RN version as well?  personally, that's my favorite out of the two version.

Robert

Hello Robert,
Not planning to at the moment, as its pretty much a different aircraft.
Colin

Quote

QuoteColin, are you planning on doing the RN version as well?  personally, that's my favorite out of the two version.

Robert

Hello Robert,
Not planning to at the moment, as its pretty much a different aircraft.

Then perhaps an option for the two-seat version of the RAF version?  I can see where that'd be necessary for some roles.

Don't forget lads that Colins commissioned the kit from Anigrand thus each additional bit adds to the unit cost. With the SR177 the difference was the format of the Rocket pipe a relatively simple part to change.

Colin will need to see how Arnold gets on with creating a prototype before he could consider whether any mods could be possible or cost effective. The naval variant would likely need to be completely new kit due to the differences.

However it does lead to some other possibilities, if the 1154 went into service instead of the 1127 as the harrier then wouldn't a Sea Harrier be a version of the 1154 with a raised cockpit and a large radar.  <_<  

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  

BTW The SHAR conversion might be one to consider with the Maintrack P1154RAF with alot of modifications.

Cant see many watning to kit bash the resin ones as its likely to be too nice and a tad costly to start butchering  :o

G

QuoteBTW The SHAR conversion might be one to consider with the Maintrack P1154RAF with alot of modifications.

Cant see many watning to kit bash the resin ones as its likely to be too nice and a tad costly to start butchering  :o

G

I don't think I need to go that far with the RAF one as I have the RN version too Geoff.  If Colin produces the RAF version I would probably buy it as the SR.177 I got is a very nice model.  I just think the RN version is the better looking version of the two and is the one I've started cutting out.  I've got hold of a Phantom cockpit set to put into it as the forward fuselage seems very similar.

Robert

Quote

QuoteBTW The SHAR conversion might be one to consider with the Maintrack P1154RAF with alot of modifications.

Cant see many watning to kit bash the resin ones as its likely to be too nice and a tad costly to start butchering  :o

G

I don't think I need to go that far with the RAF one as I have the RN version too Geoff.  If Colin produces the RAF version I would probably buy it as the SR.177 I got is a very nice model.  I just think the RN version is the better looking version of the two and is the one I've started cutting out.  I've got hold of a Phantom cockpit set to put into it as the forward fuselage seems very similar.

Robert

Hi Robert

I was actually teying to point out a use of the RAF version as this probably would have gone into service if not for the 1965 cull. The RN version had been cancelled earlier as it didn't meet requirements.

However if by the 70's the carriers had been culled then the they would likely have been looking for a Naval version of the inserive 1154 Harrier. This probably would have been along the same lines as the SHAR with a raised cockpit and an upgraded radar.

As for the 1154 RN Vacform, i think both were inspired by Roger the Cabinboy aka(Phil Cater)'s  kit bashes in the early 90's during his days from the harrier SIG. I recall that phil said he used Toom, hunter etc bits to create his 1154.

Freightdog are using the manufacturers drawings vis Mike so the 1154 RAF should be a great improvement over the maintrack ones in both accuracy and build  :D

G

QuoteThen perhaps an option for the two-seat version of the RAF version?  I can see where that'd be necessary for some roles.

The two seat will need a new fuselage, like Geoff said I've only commissioned the P1154RAF, but if demand (and funds!) is there then maybe the twin stick can follow.
Colin

Colin,

If you did the naval version then I would definitely be on for one (and would happily use my Maintrack jelly mould as a paint tray).  

I would also jump at an 1121 (even an RAF one - spit).

FredT

Some progress, below is for illustration only and by no means final but it show's you how we are doing...

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freightdogproductions.com%2F1154.jpg&hash=702e8b158ce7b8286ae156a73e26e827a2426c23)

Colin

Now that does look good, and you can already see the differences over the Maintrack production !.

G

(Interesting that some prefer the RN version yet the Navy hated it !!! - They would have much prfered their Vickers 583 instead as the Sea Vixen replacement)

*RASP-RASP-RASP*

so can we suggest a sqn for the decal sheet colin?

thorvic says that 54 sqn colors would look nice on this bird and i agree.  :P

the harrier OCU grasshopper motif would also look good as would 3, 4 and 20 sqn
markings and those of 233OCU.

I guess we'll see some Phantom squadron colours too?  With the P.1154 inteded to be truly multi-role like the Phantom, maybe some fighter sqaudrons & air defence colours?  Black & white checks & fighting cock of 43 Sqn, maybe???

Please, please PLEASE IV(AC) Sqn with the black/red/lighting bolt on the tail.  IF not, I'll do my own!  :P  

Colin

Just saw the profile. A note of caution on some points:

The nose shape is wrong, clearly from one of the side views that has the shape wrong, which I think I noted on one of the GA's (access panel one IIRC). Also, the front nozzles should have a fairing around them, which can be seen in the partial cutaway of the aircraft landing.

Also, I don't think it would have needed the slip-vane ahead of the cockpit as it had a much better autostab than the Harrier.

Finally, I think the light underside pattern would not extend up  the intake side, or on the inter-nozzle ramp (which would be the same colour as the nozzles.

My own effort, which might help a bit, is at:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...hl=p\.1154 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=13409&hl=p\.1154)

Other than that looks great, but will have a longer look when I have time.

Mike

QuoteColin

Just saw the profile. A note of caution on some points:

The nose shape is wrong, clearly from one of the side views that has the shape wrong, which I think I noted on one of the GA's (access panel one IIRC). Also, the front nozzles should have a fairing around them, which can be seen in the partial cutaway of the aircraft landing.

Also, I don't think it would have needed the slip-vane ahead of the cockpit as it had a much better autostab than the Harrier.

Finally, I think the light underside pattern would not extend up  the intake side, or on the inter-nozzle ramp (which would be the same colour as the nozzles.

My own effort, which might help a bit, is at:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...hl=p\.1154 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=13409&hl=p\.1154)

Other than that looks great, but will have a longer look when I have time.

Mike

Thanks Mike, will pass on comments to Jon Freeman so he can make the changes, don't worry Anigrand are not working from this drawing, it was just a rough to start with to show some progress is being made!

Colin

Its been quiet for a while now....but here is a sneaky preview of the P1154 masters so far, 80% done so far. Unfortunately Arnold didn't send me a picture of the top, so here's the bottom instead!

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freightdogproductions.com%2Fp1154preview.jpg&hash=ceb71e79efb47f0507de634ebb83c46630ed32fb)    

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freightdogproductions.com%2Fp1154preview2.jpg&hash=92b701f43a442eec21e287e74f9e258e5020b275)  

Put your Maintrack vacs in the bin, NOW!

Are you sure the shape of the nozzles is correct? I just saw the BS100 prototype at Yeovilton, and it doesn't look like that. I'll post a pic tomorrow.  

No your right, they are not the right shape. Please post the pics and I send on to Arnold. Still a bit of work to do before masters get producton approval!
Colin

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv666%2FThorvic%2FDuxford086.jpg&hash=c7ff7e1a87c217dfee42e7f90f888f5b9f516933)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv666%2FThorvic%2FDuxford085.jpg&hash=e6fbf5c8ee3ea9c7cc09db554fd2ecfc286947a6)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv666%2FThorvic%2FDuxford084.jpg&hash=fb35eeba1ca67bc7d1fcdef44adccc48fe8a8c67)

Some shots of the BS100 at Yeovilton if these help ?

Some more photos of the same engine:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acme-engineering.nl%2FBS100%2520back.jpg&hash=373887ee2b0f0de49bdb90dc8062a93e6413fdd5)

The engine is mounted upside down.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acme-engineering.nl%2FBS100%2520side.jpg&hash=772c4c15983b76d0f0b4483875cd8f5d0b6e8bd3)

BS100 on the right, Pegasus on the left. Notice that the rear nozzle on the BS100 is almost flush with the panel in front of it.
Also, unlike the Pegasus, the BS100 nozzles are way below the centerline of the engine.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.xmsnet.nl%2Fhdejong%2FBS100%2520front.jpg&hash=913c02a5029262ddeb9e2bc7ef9b7b32db40589f)

Colin

Hobbes pics show the 'right' nozzles - as does the one of the BS.100 at :

http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history_p1154.htm (http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history_p1154.htm)

The front nozzles were not circular, but almost rectangular, with rounded corners, and a vertical splitter down the middle, as Hobbes pics show.

In addition, the model pics seem  to (could be mistaken) show the nozzles emerging at too small an angle from the fuselage, as Hobbes also points out is not the case on the BS.100.

Finally, the front wheel well seems to extend too far aft - see this pic in the above article:

http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/images/54cut.jpg (http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/images/54cut.jpg)

Mike

A bigger version of the familiar shot of the BS100 in heat sensitive test paint.

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.braynededesigns.com%2FVSTOL%2FBS100_01.jpg&hash=b88621322feb22f3d29bffeefb4e7ee510acdc53)

Jon

Thanks for the info and pictures. I have passed it on to Arnold (along with some other comments from Mike who also got a look at the other master shots) and hope for feedback soon.
Colin
 

Hello Guys,  
I afraid the P1154 will not be ready for sale at Telford, but I will hopefully have a pre-production example on show. The problem is shape issues, as we do not have a single set of detailed drawing to work from, and no production aircraft to measure, interpretation along with the language barrier trying to explain what needs changing is causing delay. So I plan on getting a copy of the masters to date, which I can show at Telford, make minor adjustments then sent back to Anigrand for Arnold to adjust the masters after the show. It shouldn't take long, but I don't want to release a sub-standard product, sorry. Below is work to date, so very nearly ready!!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freightdogproductions.com%2FP1154progress.jpg&hash=84144cd10474d6ada911300b20674b4841e99a56)

My wish for Christmas 2008  !

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...hp?topic=3083.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3083.0)

Deino   :wub:  

Colin will probably give an update on the status of the kit soon as i know he's been rather busy. The test shots have been passed on to certain people but those are not likely to be the final version of the kit as there are some revisions and refinements currently being considered.

As for the Fairey Delta 3, Overscan finding the brochure at the PRO certainly helps but its a big aircraft and not sure if Colin would consider it. Beings its on the cover of BSP:F and being an interceptor it has plenty of decal options that Jon Freeman could play around with  ;)

(Doubt we'll ever see the Spot-on version from Joe  :( )

Quote...

As for the Fairey Delta 3, Overscan finding the brochure at the PRO certainly helps but its a big aircraft and not sure if Colin would consider it. Beings its on the cover of BSP:F and being an interceptor it has plenty of decal options that Jon Freeman could play around with  ;)

(Doubt we'll ever see the Spot-on version from Joe  :( )

That was exactly my idea ... regardless being a huge model I think it would perfectly fit to the F-108, CF-105, ...  

So, plaese give us that huge piece of resin !!!!

Deino    :wub:  

Maybe Anigrand could kit it instead, with Colins help?  I know Arnold mostly does US subjects, but he's now used to large kits.  Colin's just starting out, If I was him I'd be reluctant to produce such a large & expensive chunk of resin with only two kits under my belt.

QuoteMaybe Anigrand could kit it instead, with Colins help?  I know Arnold mostly does US subjects, but he's now used to large kits.  Colin's just starting out, If I was him I'd be reluctant to produce such a large & expensive chunk of resin with only two kits under my belt.

Eh ?, Anigrand prouduced the SR177 and P1154's for Colin. The trouble is finding a gap in in Arnolds production schedules and providing him with suitable sources to create an accurate model.

Cost wise a resin FD3 would be nearer the £40-50 price range if not more and Colin would need alot more interest before comissioning a kit. Whilst some will always be willing to pay for a subject they want many others interested will shy away from either the fact that its resin or the Price is just too far out of their league to justify.

I know some of us lot would be keen but apart from being on the cover of British Secret Projects: Fighters most modellers are unaware of the type as it was cancelled before it could be built.

Lets see the P1154 produced and selling well before pushing for more, any new kits rely on the previous kit selling well to provide the production funds for the new kit.

Cheers

Geoff

What I mean is, maybe Anigrand can market it rather than Colin?

Wonderful stuff!  I didn't know there was so much info out there on the FD3, I wouldn't rule out a Freightdog kit in the future (maybe SMW2008?), just need to get this bloody P1154 ready and on sale!!!
Apologies for delay, I've been a bit distracted of late,  family stuff, busy at the real job (don't you just hate that?), to top it all Fantasy printshop just delivered 300 1/32 P47D Thunderbolts decal sheets to me that I was expected for a couple of weeks, better sell some quick before I have to pay for them!!
By the way, SR177 are out of stock (well, about 4 left), more being cast now.    
Colin

Im currently putting togeather one of the 1154 test shots. It has a few detail problems that have been pointed out to colin by Thorvic and said probelms sould be corrected on the production kit. but to be honest it looks like an 1154 to me.  ;D
It fits togeather quite well, a little filler has been needed in places but nothing to shout about. One think i did find is that the locating holes for the fin need drilling out a little bit as the location pins are a touch to thick for the holes. Im hopeing to have it finished in time to appear on the SIG stand at the MK show. Thinking a falklands war bird for this one.  :wacko: