What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Topic started by: Spey_Phantom on April 30, 2007, 10:28:57 AM

Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Spey_Phantom on April 30, 2007, 10:28:57 AM
the idea came to me when i was visiting a hoobyshop in brugges earlier today.
with some of the people saying that the J-10 is similar to the typhoon, i decided to see for myself.
i bought an adittional eurofighter kit to specially convert into an J-10A.
its good to do some "Plastic Surgery" for once  :lol:

work done so far:

-cutting up the typhoons standard wing into the j-10 shaped wing (smaller and cornered)
-scratchbuilding of the new tailfin
-scratchbuilding the ventral fins
-taking a spare MIG-29 outlet
-taking 2 MIG-29 tailplanes for canards (the typhoons ones were to small)

still to do:

-scratchbuild intake
-constructionwork
-painting
-modify canopy
-finding or scratchbuild chinese or russian weapons
-find or build F-16 style landing gear

the kit itself makes a crappy typhoon, but it make hell of a J-10 conversion kit  B)
here a pic of how the kit looks now before i posted  :)  
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Mossie on April 30, 2007, 10:39:47 AM
I like this idea Nils, good luck!  It'll get the JMN's scratching their heads, maybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:  
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Spey_Phantom on April 30, 2007, 11:49:29 AM
update:

i decided to do a one-nighter for this one, but there will be no landing gear added since i got nothing usefull in my sparesbox. i pasted most parts together now and applied a layer of primer.

one things for sure, paint the nose black and she looks like a J-10 already.
i will post pics later if its ready. although the canards look a little to big, she really is a stunner up to now  B)
as for decals, im thinking a chinese one (real world alike)  <_<  
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Shasper on April 30, 2007, 12:17:48 PM
Quotemaybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:
That'll be a giant leap.

Shas B)
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Mossie on April 30, 2007, 12:29:37 PM
Or a smaller one.....

Just going on all this speculation that surrounds the J-10 Shas, some have said it's based heavilly on the Typhoon, some say the Lavi (someone posted about this recentley, can't remember who off the top of my head).  Yes, there are similarities & there might even have been some inspiration or even a little espionage at work but it's more a case of design convergance than copycatting if you ask me.
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Spey_Phantom on April 30, 2007, 12:33:19 PM
Time flies when your having fun, the kit was so easy to build, ive bearly begun and its already finished.
the result was remarkable, it really is looking like a J-10 to me  :wub:
im just gonna do some modifications tommorow, im to tired to do them right now  :zzz:
what do you think of the result :ph34r:

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maj.com%2Fgallery%2Fnils%2Fwhiff2%2FJ-10%2Fj10-1.jpg&hash=69199b9ba4926d1db194ac740a44776b020f673c)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maj.com%2Fgallery%2Fnils%2Fwhiff2%2FJ-10%2Fj10-2.jpg&hash=ac7fc81403609cac6d7e43e2ec56d4d0906e2d1b)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maj.com%2Fgallery%2Fnils%2Fwhiff2%2FJ-10%2Fj10-3.jpg&hash=1f6e35f06a112a5370e800c8d1e41ad7324154fd)

(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.maj.com%2Fgallery%2Fnils%2Fwhiff2%2FJ-10%2Fj10-4.jpg&hash=722a15a4990ad6278db2be1d7bf8493fab6e99ef)

(ps, i posted this before Mossie's reply, but i made a mistake by pressing delete instead of edit  :dum: , lucky i managed to re-post this message)
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: ysi_maniac on April 30, 2007, 12:40:19 PM
Hi Nils,
This is a really good job :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:

Hi Mossie,
What I read is that IAI just plainly sold key info from Lavi project, along with Python missile and I do not know more ... Of course, Chineses had to deal with additional problems, like engines and that is why it is bigger.
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Shasper on April 30, 2007, 02:33:07 PM
That may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).


Shas B)
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 05:33:54 AM
Quote
Quotemaybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:
That'll be a giant leap.

Shas B)


  Your best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.  
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 05:59:07 AM
Quote
Quote
Quotemaybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:
That'll be a giant leap.

Shas B)


  Your best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.

   Here's my 1/72 J-10 made from a Typhoon. As I was literally putting on the decals a couple of years ago, Squadron received Trumpeter's kit........
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 06:01:13 AM
Quote
Quote
Quotemaybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:
That'll be a giant leap.

Shas B)


  Your best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.


     My 1/72 Lavi made from an F-16. I had started it about the same time as my J-10 & as I was finishing the paint, you guessed it, Anigrand's kit was released.
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 06:03:49 AM
Quote
Quote
Quotemaybe the next step is to turn a J-10 kit into a Lavi!!! :lol:
That'll be a giant leap.

Shas B)


  Your best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.


    Lastly, the pair. The 2 a/c are no more copies of each other than the MiG-15 & F-86. If they were, wouldn't I have used an F-16 for the J-10 & the Typhoon for the Lavi just as easily?
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Mossie on May 01, 2007, 06:51:46 AM
QuoteThat may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).


Shas B)
QuoteYour best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.

Blimey guys, it was meant as a joke for the reason you've both mentioned, hence the :lol:!

Nils, nice job on the J-10, & your J-10 & Lavi look good too Famvburg!
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 07:06:04 AM
Quote
QuoteThat may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).


Shas B)
QuoteYour best bet is to use an F-16 as a basis for a Lavi.

Blimey guys, it was meant as a joke for the reason you've both mentioned, hence the :lol:!

Nils, nice job on the J-10, & your J-10 & Lavi look good too Famvburg!


     Thanks. My comment was just a suggestion. There was an article in a British model mag some time ago that showed the F-16 - Lavi conversion. It's posted 'somewhere' on the 'net, IIRC.
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: elmayerle on May 01, 2007, 11:36:09 AM
QuoteThat may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).
Actually, the original Lavi proposal had a F404 and not a PW1120.  That was the basis of some studies between IAI and Northrop about using portions of the F-5G/F-20 (depending on when the study was written) to reduce costs of the Lavi.  Ultimately, IAI decided to do it all themselves.
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: famvburg on May 01, 2007, 11:40:21 AM
Quote
QuoteThat may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).
Actually, the original Lavi proposal had a F404 and not a PW1120.  That was the basis of some studies between IAI and Northrop about using portions of the F-5G/F-20 (depending on when the study was written) to reduce costs of the Lavi.  Ultimately, IAI decided to do it all themselves.

    That's interesting about the F-20. Is there any other info about the F-20 based Lavi?  
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: elmayerle on May 01, 2007, 11:50:06 AM
Quote
Quote
QuoteThat may be Ysi & others, but if you check the specs, the J-10 is a hell of alot larger than the Lavi was ever intended to be (the original purpose of the Lavi was to be a 2-place advance LIFT to replace the Skyhawk, the single seater was also to replace the scooter and I think the Kfir as well). Heck, the engine dia. tell you alone how much bigger the sino is (AL-31 is roughly in the same class as the F100/F110, while the PW1120 was originally meant for an alt. to the J79, same class as the F404).
Actually, the original Lavi proposal had a F404 and not a PW1120.  That was the basis of some studies between IAI and Northrop about using portions of the F-5G/F-20 (depending on when the study was written) to reduce costs of the Lavi.  Ultimately, IAI decided to do it all themselves.

    That's interesting about the F-20. Is there any other info about the F-20 based Lavi?
Yes, two variants, one with F-20 style inlets and one with an underslung inlet (second one used far less F-20 structure than the first one).  I saw a copy of the final report when I worked there (last boss worked on that study).
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Spey_Phantom on May 01, 2007, 12:34:31 PM
can we stay on topic please, thank you.
Famvburg, your J-10 conversion looks really cool, same thing to be said about that Lavi  :wub:

a small update:

i did some finishing work this morning, i repainted the tail this morning and removed the red square decal on the tail.
a cant do some real finishing work yet, as the black paint on the nose and the engine are not dry yet (after nearly 24hrs  <_<, next time im using silk matt black  :unsure: )
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Rafael on May 02, 2007, 06:02:50 PM
I missed this one, Nils. This is a beautiful little gem. I like the way you improved/modified the canopy section

Great!!!

Rafa
Title: The Daring Conversion Attempt
Post by: Eddie M. on May 03, 2007, 07:02:01 PM
Good looking jets. I really like your camo work. B)
  Eddie