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Hot Research Topics => Camouflage, Colors, and Markings => Topic started by: nev on August 19, 2006, 03:20:47 AM

Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: nev on August 19, 2006, 03:20:47 AM
The numbers of the VF, VFA, VA squadrons etc, do they duplicate?  So there could e a VF-1, VA-1, VFA-1 etc.

Or can they change?  Eg, could VF-1 Wolfpack become VFA-1 Wolfpack?

Just I have some VMFA decals that I want to use on a potential VMA subject - can I just cut the F out and retain the same squadron identity?
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: Eddie M. on August 19, 2006, 04:17:14 AM
A lot of the VFs have transitioned to VFA because of the change from Tomcats to SuperHornets,VF-2 to VFA-2 is one I know of. Not sure about the rest. I personal can't remember ever seeing any duplicate #  for VMFAs VAs, VPs, VAWs, etc.......
   Eddie
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: anthonyp on August 19, 2006, 06:45:54 AM
In the past, each squadron classification ignored whatever squadrons of other classes had.  For example, there's an active VP-1 that was around when VF-1 was active.  

Here's a somewhat dubious list of active Navy squadrons for cross referencing (it's on Wikipedia, which isn't always accurate):

Wkipedia's US Navy units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_units_of_the_United_States_Navy)

And here's a Squadron Lineage PDF from the US Navy itself:

USN Squadron Lineage (http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-vol1/Appendx6.pdf)

Actually, I think you might find this entire directory interesting (they're missing Chapter 2 which is the VFA squadrons chapter):

Dictionary of American Naval Aviation Squadrons (http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-vol1/)

And the above two links are hosted at the Naval Historical Center (http://www.history.navy.mil/) home page.

Most VMFA squadrons were originally VMF squadrons up until the 50's and 60's.  Some of the Harrier VMA squadrons started out life as VMF's in WWII, so I guess you could just cut out the F and have the same thing.

EDIT:  Did some quick clicking at the Naval Historical Center page, and found these:

Dictionary of American Naval Aviation Squadrons Volume 1 The History of VA, VAH, VAK, VAL, VAP and VFA Squadrons (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/dictvol1.htm)
Dictionary of American Naval Aviation Squadrons Volume 2 The History of VP, VPB, VP(H) and VP(AM) Squadrons (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/dictvol2.htm)
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: elmayerle on August 20, 2006, 08:21:09 PM
Dare I presume everyone's familiar with the interpretation of USN/USMC squadron designations?

First letter: V - Heavier than air (supposedly another letter would show up here if they ever again operate lighter-than-air vehicles)
Secone letter (if present): M - Marines (obviously)
Third & subsequent letters: F-fighter, A-attack, Q-electronic warfare, P-patrol, U- utility, C- composite, etc.

So, obviously, you could have both a VF-1 and a VP-1 with no problem.
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: Son of Damian on August 20, 2006, 08:47:16 PM
Then what does O stand for as in VAO-138 Yellowjackets? Is it another version of electronic warfare, cuz that is what it is under on wikipedia.  
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: jcf on August 20, 2006, 09:36:04 PM
QuoteThen what does O stand for as in VAO-138 Yellowjackets? Is it another version of electronic warfare, cuz that is what it is under on wikipedia.
Its VAQ-138 and they are based out of Whidbey Island...just to north of where I am. Wikipedia has it wrong..surprise, surprise.

As Evan pointed out, the "Q" is for Electronic Countermeasures and is actually  a throwback to the pre-1962 aircraft nomenclature system when the "Q" was used as part of the aircraft designation as in AD-3Q.

Cheers, Jon
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on August 20, 2006, 10:39:18 PM
The Marines flew OV-10 Broncos with VMAO-???. Could the 'O' therefore be shorthand for 'Observation' ??

Ian
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: elmayerle on August 20, 2006, 11:11:16 PM
I would imagine so.
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: garys on August 22, 2006, 02:21:44 PM
QuoteThe numbers of the VF, VFA, VA squadrons etc, do they duplicate?  


Just I have some VMFA decals that I want to use on a potential VMA subject - can I just cut the F out and retain the same squadron identity?
As far as VF, VA, and VFA Navy squadrons go, there should be no duplication of squadron numbers in the post-Korea era, between these different, carrier based classes.

I also believe each Marine squadron number is unique and can be transferred if the squadron is reroled.  Ie, VMF-214 to VMA-214 but still the Black Sheep.  
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: Jschmus on August 22, 2006, 09:14:14 PM
QuoteThe Marines flew OV-10 Broncos with VMAO-???. Could the 'O' therefore be shorthand for 'Observation' ??

Ian
The Marine OV-10 units were all VMO.  The lone Navy unit was designated VAL.
Title: USN/USMC squadrons
Post by: Joe C-P on August 23, 2006, 11:46:25 AM
QuoteFirst letter: V - Heavier than air (supposedly another letter would show up here if they ever again operate lighter-than-air vehicles)
Z is lighter than air.