What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2006 and Older Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => Group Build: Tophe Twin Tail Tribute => Topic started by: Tophe on June 18, 2006, 09:53:20 PM

Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 18, 2006, 09:53:20 PM
If you look :wacko:  at the number 141 (in base 10, not the corresponding 10001101 in base 2 :wacko: ), it seems obvious that it means for an airplane: 1-fuselage + 4-engines + 1 other fuselage... :angry:
The standard Lockheed Starlifter C-141 did not meet this mandatory :angry:  requirement (of mine :wacko: ), while... the C-141Z TwinStar reached that goal... :D
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_c-141z.jpg&hash=05c746a169df8945ffa6174a5f8e2c2fe878418e)
( from http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-141.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-141.htm) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 18, 2006, 09:55:03 PM
BUT the asymmetrical part of myself :wacko:  (the heart at the left of my chest :) ), argued  :(  : "the leading 141 was Blohm und Voss wonder of the early 1940s, after which every 141-named airplane must feature asymmetry :wacko:  or pay $ billions as punishment :angry: , according to the law on trademarks!"
So the 4-engined C-141B Starlifter :angry:  became the 3-engined C-141Bv Asymlifter... :D  
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_C-141Bv.jpg&hash=13e5548b3bc7db43f040c7259ef483fc028588e8)
( from http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-141.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-141.htm) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 18, 2006, 09:56:50 PM
AS WELL, when the Soviet Union ignoring commercial laws :(  became Russia market :) , the Yakovlev team had to adapt their Yak-141 Freestyle in order to respect the asymmetry rule :angry: . This created the single-tailed Yabv-141 FreeAsym (or Free-of-Copyright)...  :D
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_yak141-af.jpg&hash=faf61ac8ae9df1e2005f8e101e9b02136e716620)
(from http://www.machtres.com/yak%20141-1.jpg (http://www.machtres.com/yak%20141-1.jpg) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 18, 2006, 09:58:44 PM
And as I had become leader of the World (at least of the whole asylum, and probably outside), I required the twin-tail to be restored without discarding asymmetry: Yabv-141Dv. :wacko:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Yak141fd.jpg&hash=4c0cad161020c8cfe747e7b3b08b453328540ca7)
(from http://www.tayyareci.com/rus-ucaklari/imag...ges/yak141f.jpg (http://www.tayyareci.com/rus-ucaklari/images/rus-images/yak141f.jpg) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on June 19, 2006, 06:22:24 AM
QuoteAnd as I had become leader of the World
Put all the whiffers in your govermant!
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 19, 2006, 10:19:30 AM
Dear, you are nominated Prime Minister (of the asylum...) despite your young age... :)
First mission: finding other 141 codes in the aviation World, apart of the Bv141, C-141, Yak-141, the poorly known Marcel Bloch MB.141 (whose search was the reason of this topic, but the thumbnail at http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/g.../index.cfm?ta=3 (http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/gb/dassault_a_a_z/avions/index.cfm?ta=3) was uneasy to handle). Which else? Has there been a Japanese Ki-141, Soviet Tu-141 or I-141, or else?
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 19, 2006, 10:46:56 AM
Next one: the North-American NA-141 Fury FJ-1 had also to be turned asymmetric (and twin-tail if possible): FJ-11 Furasy.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_FJ-11c.jpg&hash=2318d1bb4d104fdae759741993c207d51d9180fe)
(see http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribution...hedijk/4744.htm (http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/4744.htm) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 20, 2006, 12:00:58 PM
QuoteSoviet Tu-141
Google found this Tupolev Tu-141 Strizh missile, and I had just to twin it into an actual airplane, scale 5:1 or something, with asymmetry on 2 canard tails... -_-
Tu-141Dv:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FTu_141Bv.gif&hash=94a5b13471080b848c0cd697a396022f50a8af4f)
thanks to http://www.fas.org/irp/world/russia/program/dr-3.htm (http://www.fas.org/irp/world/russia/program/dr-3.htm)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on June 20, 2006, 12:20:19 PM
Dont know if this one counts, a Mig-1.41?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe123%2FB777LR%2Fmig_141_001.jpg&hash=135bb5e4edea9dffc63de9084b4f2fe80b605a7d)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 20, 2006, 09:06:03 PM
Good! They tried to fool the inspection squad, but you find them anyway! Not to go to jail or punishment-camp Siberia, the MiG design bureau had to design an actual MiG 141 (or MiG 141Bv, asymmetric twin-tail) to complete this "1.41". Good work, inspector!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Mig_141Bv.jpg&hash=0d75785ea1a61f2175460b1b1ce498fa234d50ed)
PS. In Cyrillic, B is pronounced V, so the considered code was simply 141B pronounced 141B in English and 141V in Russian, and B+V=BV, MiG-BV-141, that's it!
PS2. Investigation will go on in Russia: Bartini for the V VA-14-1 and Antonov for the An-14-1 may be condemned too... And if there has been in the US a XF-14-1 Tomcat...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 20, 2006, 09:39:27 PM
And the unbuilt project of twin-jet Hawker Siddeley HS-141 was also an asymmetric twin tail, here is the proof:
(from  )http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/h-s/ (http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/h-s/)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Hs_141b.jpg&hash=90d0ccc04723c270005a18a2c595e53779c661d4)
Next: the Folland 141 Gnat, that has to be twinned into a Gnat-Gnat...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 21, 2006, 09:38:06 AM
Thanks to http://mijnposter.nl/thumbs/601/089s.jpeg (http://mijnposter.nl/thumbs/601/089s.jpeg) here is the Folland Fo-141 Gnat following the FoBv-141 Gnat-Gnat... The Red Arrows refused the latter model, saying it was too easy to fly close to one another this way, not dangerous/thrilling enough...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FGnat.jpg&hash=9093243bf86f2fe64a77602f17a9a82499002667)
for the days to come: Vickers 141 Scout, Farman F.141, Vought V-141, Hanriot HD.141, Potez-CAMS 141, Piper 141 Warrior, Payen Pa 141, Boulton-Paul P.141 :)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on June 21, 2006, 02:44:40 PM
Good job on spotting those glorious dict... ehrm leader! Never would have thought about those myself!

PS, the crappy website called wikipedia, did no help whatever in my search to find traitors!
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 21, 2006, 09:09:31 PM
The glorious engineer Roland Payen was happy when WW2 ended: the time had come for his civil Pa.141 – and he may find time for solving the remaining issues: how to install a second engine increasing safety and provide a panoramic rear view (a P-61-like layout was considered). Then occured this 141-patent/property issue (from this Tophe Sr crazy lawyer :wacko: , for what remained of Blohm und Voss...)
Eng. Payen smiled: "let us do it all at once: providing asymmetry with the second engine and the rear canopy: Pa.141B – B like Blohm!"
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Pa141B_f.jpg&hash=dc505dc767abf2bd5e819bc72b570fc5f8e314d9)
Tophe Sr answer: "yes, but there is still no Pa.141 kit, scratchbuilding is uneasy..."
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 21, 2006, 09:53:10 PM
The first flight of the Blohm-und-Voss Bv 141 occurred in 1938, but the Vought V-141 first flew in 1936! So lawyers are fighting severely to know which design/product was the first... In case they would loose, Bv built a symmetric Bv 141Z (with Glenn's help, see http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index...?showtopic=9928 (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=9928) ) and Vought built a slightly asymmetric (twin-fuselage single-fin single-cockpit) V-141Z...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_V-141z.jpg&hash=c17d10dbe3a513fc0f98bba26ac5ccc7ca2faba9)
(thanks to http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/asset.../db_1422_18.jpg (http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/assets/images/db_images/db_1422_18.jpg) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on June 22, 2006, 12:58:41 AM
Time to look in our own forum for "traitors of the motherland"!

Off to school now, on th second last daybefore sommer holidays!
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 22, 2006, 08:26:40 AM
Close to the Vought/Bv match, the Potez-CAMS 141 Antares was designed in 1936 and first flew in 1938, thus the 7-engined temporary Double-Antares of 1939 and the final (4-engined again) Asymtares of 1940:
(thanks to http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/fr/potez/po141.htm (http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/fr/potez/po141.htm) )
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Po141Z.jpg&hash=7b978d5e792c15efba00d1b44cd4c6c238a6ffb6)
Well, as everything should be commercially justified by itself...:
- Double Antares: double load, and as the drag and weight is less than doubled (common central wing, no external floats), less than twice much engines is enough, 7.
- Asymtares: with a lower speed, the 4 original engines were enough, and to be repaired in flight without the mechanic crawling too long inside the wing, they are all on the same side...
...Happy holidays (and modelling) Thomas...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 22, 2006, 10:41:04 AM
I know I know you will tell me that the Vickers V.141 of 1926 and Farman F-141 of 1928 came before the Bv-141.
Well, yes and no: that is right for the first flight, but the design of the Blohm und Voss Bv-141 (as Hamburger Ha-141-V0) is dated 1925! As a biplane, of course.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr-Bv141_144_zd.jpg&hash=463174713c8aad2a216e1e6d42c35aa8001fee1b)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 22, 2006, 08:12:44 PM
– So your Farman F-141 was an illegal copy of the Ha-141, depicted by a future's teller?
– No! The F-141 Super-Goliath came from the previous F-140 that came from the previous F-40 of our very own!
– Hm... But why 141?
– Just after 140!
– So why did you build also a F-1,41?
– No relation! This was a derivative of the F-41!
– The Justice doesn't believe it. The sentence is 141 years of jail...
– No! Please, Your Honour...
– All right, the sentence is reduced to 135 years, till 2141.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_F-141z.jpg&hash=8eb576ff70e1d0ebe1c29bd0d68e779728601212)
(thanks to http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?...SION=0&MOTCLEF= (http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=1003&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=501&ANNEE=0&ID_MISSION=0&MOTCLEF=) and http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/body_farman_...er_goliath.html (http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/body_farman_f_40_super_goliath.html) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 22, 2006, 09:37:15 PM
The Vikers V.141 Scout photograph I found on the Web (at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribution.../Braas/4036.htm (http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Braas/4036.htm) ) is uneasy to twin, so I will just increase its speed transforming into a "half-monoplane", "sesquiplane in an unusual way", the ½ being not centered over the 1...
V-.141 Souct:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_VickersV141.jpg&hash=4405e9cdd77b48571b6f419c352714e57611ed2c)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 23, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Piper PA-141 T-Warrior:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Twarrior.jpg&hash=399704cff9f37f2422f8fa98d29b653b4e26d9f6)
– No... this is a fake! The source is the Piper PA-28-141 Cherokee Warrior of http://www.neastaviation.com/Aircraft.html (http://www.neastaviation.com/Aircraft.html)
– Why 141 without asymmetry?
– The PA-28 Cherokee family had versions with 150hp, 160hp, 180hp, thus PA-28-150, PA-28-160, PA-28-180.
– No relation with 141!
– Then came the cheap derivative PA-28-140, and versions PA-28-151, PA-28-161, PA-28-181, and... PA-28-141.
– That's a tale to avoid paying the Bv-141 patent...
– No, no asymmetry on the PA-28s, not even twin-tails...
– Yes: twin-tail and a single starboard fin, twin-nose and a single starboard nose-wheel...
– You are crazy!
– You are sad.
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 24, 2006, 04:51:22 AM
According to http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-141.html (http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-141.html) it seems an M-141 or IMI ADM-141 TALD (Tactical Air-Launched Decoy) has been flown asymmetric, with a half opening of its "flip out wings". Well, asymmetry for a 141-aircraft is right, but I need an eye, a canopy, thus the ADM-141E below, scale 48/1?...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fadm-141e.jpg&hash=8a0424769ef6dfb9b5b0f34678c868347d345491)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 24, 2006, 11:10:08 AM
Oh... a Monogram F-141 Tomcat kit ??? Where? It seems to have disappeared from the E-bay list alas... Asymmetric like the Superdahu (VG on starboard, fixed on port?)? :wacko:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Ff-141.jpg&hash=690a535c51a60ce16800f8ae85dbd5af007983e4)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 24, 2006, 11:17:45 AM
Thanks to The Rat and JHM :)  :) , I must immediately correct my guilt :(  :angry:  forgetting the Canadair CT-141 Tutor (and asymmetric Twin-Tutor, of course): :)
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fct141z.jpg&hash=fb3ccb32a8fc554600b6b7718b8d3e6daae06083)
(thanks to the 1/72 Hobbycraft kit at http://www.cahood.com/M6413.htm (http://www.cahood.com/M6413.htm)  )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 24, 2006, 11:03:26 PM
Little corrections:
1/ the Twin-Tutor code is of course different from the Tutor's
2/ as there is no jet on the port fuselage, no need of air-intakes...
3/ explaining why: mass training of 3 pupils per teacher, in a "side by side/side by side" layout...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fct_141z.jpg&hash=fd2d4a81e9d740cd51825854927e9a1acb5e956d)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on June 25, 2006, 01:54:19 AM
What would you do if it was a heli? Join the tips of the rotors?! :P

:cheers:  
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 07:06:40 AM
With intermeshing rotors, all is possible, side by side... :)  :wacko:  
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 08:14:48 AM
According to "Le Trait d'Union" magazine (French branch of Air Britain) #213, the Hanriot HD-141 was a 1929 conversion of 4 HD-14, 4 HD-32, 4 HD-321.
According to http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=5677 (http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=5677) this Hanriot HD-141 was built in 10 copies, including 8 from HD-321.
As it seems there is no HD-141 picture available anywhere, I am proud to present the very first one, the asymmetric HD-141HB Hémi-Biplan: half-biplane (biplane on starboard, no wing on port) but not monoplane. Why?! How?! Well, this was due to the incredibly powerful engine (130hp officially, maybe 180hp secretly!!!) providing a huge torque that needed counter-balance by lift on a single side.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Hd-141.jpg&hash=515272a73b6d37e1ce21281f4582d167576603e5)
(thanks to http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=707 (http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=707) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 10:57:35 AM
From the AN/ALQ-141 towed underwater system (kinda "submarine", Airborne Mine Counter Measures system), I may add... another what-if 141 airplane: A-141 Nalq, and its asymmetric twin: TA-141 Twinalq.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FA-141.gif&hash=28c8d954fe332c3c7aaf4e89b6d2895bd89022bd)
( thanks to http://members.aol.com/helmineron/analq141.htm (http://members.aol.com/helmineron/analq141.htm) )
You know what: I am a what-ifer...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 12:24:52 PM
Thanks to MartinH and to the Putnam book "Boulton-Paul aircraft since 1915", here is my P.141Z asymmetric-twin version of the VTOL Boulton-Paul P.141, dated 1960:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FP141z.jpg&hash=e97af0fd395a55ee1e2bc5b24eaab94cdbff62cc)
And at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/ (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/) , our dear Overscan mentioned a Blackburn P.141 looking like a Phantom...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 09:34:47 PM
QuoteAnd at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/ (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/) , our dear Overscan mentioned a Blackburn P.141
And Lark mentioned a Bristol 141 of 1934 (twin-engine mentioned but not illustrated in the book "The Turret Fighters")
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 25, 2006, 10:50:07 PM
The Lockheed L-141 project became the XP-80A Shooting Star, yes, but before the order came, Clarence Kelly Tophson required it to be a twin-plane (L-141Z) and the 141 code meant it shoud be assymmetric (L-141ZA), with something as a single fin and tiny port wing...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Ff-80za_.jpg&hash=34ac0fecac2dad21d9ee0d20443001314c7eafe7)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 26, 2006, 09:42:03 PM
In the VERY nice book "From Sea to Air – the Heritage of Sam Saunders" by A.E.Tagg, there is alas a gap between projects P.139 and P.142. Very obviously a P.141 has been designed between them, but it is not explained nor illustrated. Let what-if "Historians" like me fill this gap:
The P.139 was a double-deck airliner for 100 passengers and this was not enough. Thus the Saunders-Roe P.140 quadruple deck for 215 passengers. Then the Saunders-Roe P.141 with less drag and taking into account the asymmetrical huge torque of 8 engines rotating in the same direction... :blink:  :wacko:  :D
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_P139-141.jpg&hash=448ee25e8e8aa16b4e76d2bcf319d4e4082c7667)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 27, 2006, 09:15:16 PM
At http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=427.0) Lark found this:
"Vega V-141 : 1942 Proposal for a twin-engined torpedo scout bomber for the US.Navy."
Well, I do not know the Vega US Company but I know the very famous Lockheed Vega of Amelia Earheart, so... my what-if conclusion is that the Vega V-141 proposal of 1942 was a twin-engined twin-fuselage (and asymmetric, as coded 141) late version of the Lockheed Vega:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_V-141.jpg&hash=bcd0f0e2059c4ecb8aed7b7003a47b6891daee69)
Wrong? No matter, this is funny...
(thanks to http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-...pln2/TW007.html (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-pln2/TW007.html) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 28, 2006, 08:15:55 PM
QuoteWell, I do not know the Vega US Company but
I found Vega Airplane Div. of Lockheed Aircraft Co. (with actual airplanes 1941) at http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V (http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V) ...
Title: Differently 141
Post by: elmayerle on June 28, 2006, 09:01:35 PM
Quote
QuoteWell, I do not know the Vega US Company but
I found Vega Airplane Div. of Lockheed Aircraft Co. (with actual airplanes 1941) at http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V (http://aerofiles.com/_uv.html#_V) ...
Yep, that's why the Lockheed Ventura has the US Navy basic designation PV and the Neptune is the P2V.  Lockheed also had the "O" company designator for a while (Navy P-80's for transition experience were labelled "FO") but eventually the US Navy standardized on the "V".
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on June 29, 2006, 11:32:02 AM
Thanks Evan. You are right: the Lockheed Vega was maybe too old for 1942. And a Neptune is too recent. So, a torpedo version of the Vega Ventura is more probable. Thus the Vega (or Evag) V-141B below (twin-asymmetric Ventura), ordered as PV-11 Twin-AsVentura:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_Pv-11.jpg&hash=8bcf539fa83e34fe95df4f555505ebd17d9a1a07)
Asymmetry is light: only the tails - with 2 fuselages, there is enough lateral area, so no need of 3 fins, nor even 2...
(thanks to http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/lotnicze...ventura/07.html (http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/lotnicze/galeria/poniatowski/ventura/07.html) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 04, 2006, 10:57:52 AM
QuoteWhat would you do if it was a heli? Join the tips of the rotors?! :P
Do you know the Mil Mi-32 dear? Almost real... I am not more crazy than some professional engineers :blink: ... or not much more :wacko: ...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Favia.russian.ee%2Ffoto%2Fmi-32.jpg&hash=a10c32d6b7f19dc1f97f1e128edaacb770bb1f53)
with data at http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html (http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html)  :)  
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 08, 2006, 07:37:35 AM
from myself at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=427.0)
I have received the book "From Spitfire to Eurofighter"  by Roy Boot, Airlife Publishing, and it is a VERY nice book, even enriching Tony Buttler's books on the Blackburn projects subject: I am a happy purchaser. Of course, the best point for me was the Blackburn P.141 of 1965, that had to be slightly turned asymmetric, of course, because of its code 141... Thanks Overscan to have directed me to this book!
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_BlackP141Z.jpg&hash=20a2245cca76d67fc6abcf5d1420500aae01791c)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 15, 2006, 04:02:56 AM
From http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/inde...php?topic=427.0 (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=427.0) : the Martin 141 is described as a flying-boat project after the China-Clipper and before the Mariner, for the US Navy, cancelled.
So... in my dreams, the Martin 130 China-Clipper was turned into the Martin 141 for a different user, and with a second hull to increase room for tanks thus range, with less than a double drag as one fin was enough and lateral floats were discarded, and less than a double power, decreasing weight and drag, to increase fuel and range once more. The result, "surprisingly", is asymmetric...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FChinaclipper2.gif&hash=d50634be6b9bff2b3a2486c7062ea2c2997b510c)
(thanks to http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/...inaclipper.html (http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/chinaclipper.html) )
Title: Differently 141
Post by: nev on July 15, 2006, 04:54:10 AM
What a great thread  :lol:

President Tophe, based upon your 1-4-1 principle, how would a suitably modifed, er I mean, corrected,  F-101 look?
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 19, 2006, 10:23:28 AM
Well, let me try: turning a F-101 Voodoo into asymmetric twin-body F-141 AsTwoodoo was not easy, hiding the straight central wing (too uneasy for my level with PhotoPaint)...
Using http://www.flightheritage.com/images/F101/f101.jpg (http://www.flightheritage.com/images/F101/f101.jpg) I have tried a special layout, rather rare: twin-tail single-(port-)nose...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_F141.jpg&hash=924e95e73d748b7ca68f5ac9ecd884ab77d1e80a)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: B777LR on July 21, 2006, 12:00:18 PM
Quote
QuoteWhat would you do if it was a heli? Join the tips of the rotors?! :P
Do you know the Mil Mi-32 dear? Almost real... I am not more crazy than some professional engineers :blink: ... or not much more :wacko: ...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Favia.russian.ee%2Ffoto%2Fmi-32.jpg&hash=a10c32d6b7f19dc1f97f1e128edaacb770bb1f53)
with data at http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html (http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-32-r.html)  :)
:blink:  :o  :mellow:  :wacko:

Sorry dear, i didnt know about it, is it russian?
Sure is ugly.

Also, how is weather in france today? Seemed pretty bad when i flew over today.
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe123%2FB777LR%2FCloudsfrance.jpg&hash=0619b53ad55e618adf1a18135a1d94ad62b6dea0)

And why does this happen to this window?
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe123%2FB777LR%2FWindowice2.jpg&hash=b0eb289ac4d803d12df837c5b8931b286eedd8b6)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 28, 2006, 11:47:02 PM
Surprising window picture, but you stupid what-ifer :wacko:  must stop to dream :angry: : such a phenomenon simply DOES NOT EXIST outside your crazy mind! :wacko:  :angry:

Back to the 141 collection... I have checked the book "Aeroplani Caproni" by Rosario Abate, Pub. Museo Caproni: the Ca.140 & Ca.142 are mentioned but not the Ca.141... As the Ca.140 is not illustrated, I imagine the Caproni Ca.141Z may have been a Ca.135 bifusoliera with a touch of asymmetry...
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2FR_ca141z2.jpg&hash=d9fdff9dd132d00b3637852b74efaefc524c3438)
Title: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 30, 2006, 11:50:03 AM
Fokker Ontwerp-141 (Design 141): I have found the Ont.135 Super G.1 of 1936 and Ont.147 of 1937, so the Ont.141 may be another improved G.1 like this – in line engines, clear rear post:
(https://www.whatifmodellers.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv670%2FTophe2712%2FExtra1%2Fr_G1_zb.jpg&hash=37ed71a66432b5bd4ac85ff25147f218ad42b112)
Title: Re: Differently 141
Post by: Tophe on July 11, 2009, 04:04:21 AM
I have lately discovered the Marcel Bloch MB-141 (tourism single engine, symmetric alas), so here is the MB-141A (three engined, asymmetric)