What if

Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: Archibald on December 07, 2006, 06:12:26 am

Title: SE 2410 Grognard (french lightning)
Post by: Archibald on December 07, 2006, 06:12:26 am
Long before the Mirage IV was the Vautour. But the Vautour itself had a rival : the SE-2410 Grognard (Grognards were old Napoleon soldiers).
This plane was a heavy strike fighter full of inovative solutions
- stacked engines (just like the Lightning :) )
- dorsal air intake
- 47 swept wing
- belly launch rocket ala F-86D Sabre Dog
It performed quite as well as the Vautour, and flew 30 months before it, in april 1950. Sadly, it was abandoned as too costly (and because requirements had changed in favor of conventional strike fighters such as the F-84G and F)

Here's a pic (from Jean Cuny, les avions de combats Francais 1945-1960)

I really want to have this aircraft in 1/72 scale, but none model is available (it is even less known than the Vautour <_< ) .
There's a cool article on the plane in Le Fana de l'Aviation (November and December).

Two ideas come to my mind
-1 GTX nicely reminded me that there's a 1/48 scale model by Fonderie miniature.
1/48 mean 1/3 bigger than 1/72.
The Grognard was 15 m long for 14m span in real world... if we say "1/3 bigger" (Ie from 1/72 to 1/48) this would mean 20m in both dimensions... nearly the size of a Mirage IV!

From this statement, ideas are coming : a scalorama, 1/48 Grognard would become...a Mirage IVA competitor!

More to follow...
Title: SE 2410 Grognard (french lightning)
Post by: Gervasius on December 07, 2006, 07:13:47 am
This is just SCREAMING for a 1967 IDF/AF version, instead of Vautours. I want one!

Title: SE 2410 Grognard (french lightning)
Post by: Archibald on December 07, 2006, 07:32:36 am
I thought about that, too! Even better, considering that the plane flew in april  1950 and prove excellent, we can have...


Here's how I see a Grognard scalorama

Need to change three parts : canopy (most difficult thing) wheels and... engines. Hmm I still have Atar-9 left by my SO-4060... this would vastly iprove performances, considering that standard Grognard was powered by... RR Nene!

I have an another idea for a 1/72 scale grognard...

Yesterday evening, I was looking at my Lightning F6, thinking that it could be use as basis for a grognard (stacked engines!). Of course, there's problems with the cockpit and... air intakes.
Suddendly, I turned the Lightning upside down, and watched the big belly tank... idea come suddendly... this could be the basis of the dorsal intake!!!!!!
Title: SE 2410 Grognard (french lightning)
Post by: Archibald on December 07, 2006, 11:21:06 am
I think about a scaled-up, supersonic Grognard to compete with the Mirage IV. It will based on the 1/48 Fonderie Miniature model.
Square dorsal air intake (made of styren) two atar-9 exhausts, pointed nose (from a TSR-2, with a Mirage IV refueling probe) P-47 bubble canopy, 1/72 scale wheels...
don't know exactly if it s viable or not (never atempted scalorama before, I NEED HELP !!)