What if

Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: Matt_S on October 26, 2002, 06:43:01 pm

Title: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Matt_S on October 26, 2002, 06:43:01 pm
Recently, I came up with the idea of an Mi-24 modified for Special Operations support (like an MH-60).  What do you think of this?

 :dr

Matt :TT
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Aircav on October 27, 2002, 01:59:40 am
Hi' Matt_S,
The Hind looks mean as it is but converted to a \"MH\" type it would look even more so.
You could fit a flight refueling probe, FLIR turret, long range drop tanks, some sort of radar, a large search light and maybe change the gun for a Hughes chain-drive 30mm cannon.
As for colours, Eastern Europe or the West ?, Polish, Hungarian,Russian,Czech,German,Finnish,French,Italian,Danish,Norwegian ?
A wrap-round scheme would look good I think.
Or you could even do it as a para-military police helicopter, Moscow police or Bundesgrunschutz.

All the best
Steve

 :zz



[!--EDIT|aircavpinkteam|Oct. 26 2002,04:00--]
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Radish on October 27, 2002, 12:21:14 pm
:t Rear cabin gunners....try it bristling with hardware. You can always argue that the engines have been uprated. Extra fuel, of course and some more lumps/bumps for new equipment.
Camo.....a splinter would look cool, as would one of those Russian Special Forces camos in blues/white/black?
Or The Republic Of south Derbyshire? I wanted to declare UDI a couple of years ago when my village was cut off from floods. We had an oil-based economy....well, neighbour paul said he had some in his garage!,  and Mi-24s would do very nicely operating from The White Swan's carpark. :ta
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Matt_S on October 27, 2002, 04:00:54 pm
Quote
Camo.....a splinter would look cool, as would one of those Russian Special Forces camos in blues/white/black?
Do you know where I can find pictures of these camo schemes? :-/

Thanks,
Matt :TT
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on February 01, 2008, 09:03:15 pm
I have in mind something that could be interesting (you be the judge).

It all began when I revisited the website of an old computer game "Force 21".

In the game, PLA has a reverse-engineered version of Hind.

Then I stumbled across the info that Americans converted some S-55 into Hind-surrogate for training.

So how could the PLA Hind, which was refered to in the game as Cheetah Heavy Attack Helicopter, have happened in the alternate history?

Could they have obtained a few examples from various sources and reverse-engineer the chopper?  They have done it with BMP-1 and features of MiG-23, so Mi-24 ought to have been possible.

Or they might have decided to breath a new lease of live into the Harbin Z-5 or even the abortive Z-6 (which was based on an enlarged Z-5) helicopters, (in Z-5) switched around cockpit and engine arrangement, and give them the kind of visual modifications of S-55 Hind-surrogate except that all features- forward fuselage, cockpit, new rotors, stub wings, and hardpoints- are very much functional.  The helicopters have the obligatory improved protection and a (or even two like real Hinds) more powerful turboshaft engine.

Reversed-engineered Hind should have most of the original features and the built-in armament (12.7mm gatling gun or twin 30mm cannon) although I'm tempted to imagine an early Z-5/Z-6 conversion with a single-barrelled 12.7mm MG in the nose.  Other armaments included rocket pods and HJ-73 ATGM, later joined by HJ-8 ATGM, TY-90 AAM, and HJ-10 ATGM as they became available.

Below are "Cheetah" as seen in the game "Force 21" and pics of S-55 Hind surrogate.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on June 21, 2008, 12:17:37 pm
What if the Hind was actually a Kamov co-axial rotor design - I give you the Ka-24D:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/Ka-24D.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on June 21, 2008, 12:29:01 pm
Hi folks,

Revisiting old threads here - what about a Hind with a pusher tail like the X-49A "Speedhawk" .  Make a Hind go even faster!

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Piasecki_X-49-3.jpg)

Regards,

Greg

Now rendered:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ca15/X24D.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Taiidantomcat on June 21, 2008, 01:45:56 pm
 :bow: Awesome i was just thinking of this the other day! Co-Ax rotors on non Kamov designs i was thinking Mi-18, 24, 26 and 10. You read my mind!! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on June 21, 2008, 11:23:49 pm
In 2008, Russia took the unprecedented step of modifying old Mi-24D Hinds into Autonomously Piloted Assault Transports:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/Q24D.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Maverick on June 22, 2008, 12:00:15 am
Interesting ideas Greg,

With the autonomous transport... what is it carrying??  UGVs? :blink:  Couldn't see humans being transported myself.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on June 22, 2008, 01:13:21 am
Interesting ideas Greg,

With the autonomous transport... what is it carrying??  UGVs? :blink:  Couldn't see humans being transported myself.

Regards,

Mav

It's carrying human troops - the autonomous piloting gets around the need to keep pilot hours up.  Of course when Skynet takes over, these become deadly...

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Geoff on June 22, 2008, 02:32:51 am
dy,
Perhaps when the PRC supplied F-6's to Egypt along with the Mig-23s part of the payment was a small number of Hinds?
The initial production batch could be standard Mi-24 "Hind D"'s, (Z-?). With progressive changes made to the design as time goes on in the same way the J-7I (Mig-21F) has been developed into the double delta F-7MG; with some of the intermediate developments virtually indistinguishable from the Soviet models?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Burncycle on June 27, 2008, 05:40:42 pm
How about a hind with the Isotov TV3-117 turbines replaced with T64-GE-100 turboshafts (from the MH-53)? You go from 2x 1,600 kW to 2x 3,230 kW and seven bladed composite rotors

FLIR / IFR probe / TFR / 30mm cannon (as mentioned in a previous post)

Distributed Sensor System and single piece gunner canopy with HMD (FLIR display projected on gunner's Helmet mounted HUD, can see through the floor, etc)

Maybe a MMW radar on the mast

Sounds expensive :)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on June 27, 2008, 06:31:53 pm
How about a hind with the Isotov TV3-117 turbines replaced with T64-GE-100 turboshafts (from the MH-53)? You go from 2x 1,600 kW to 2x 3,230 kW and seven bladed composite rotors

FLIR / IFR probe / TFR / 30mm cannon (as mentioned in a previous post)

Distributed Sensor System and single piece gunner canopy with HMD (FLIR display projected on gunner's Helmet mounted HUD, can see through the floor, etc)

Maybe a MMW radar on the mast

Sounds expensive :)
You could also dive into a bit of scale-o-rama and kit bashing by using the engine parts from a 1/32nd scale AH-64 on a 1/48th scale Hind.  The same could be with a 1/72nd scale Hind and some 1/48th scale AH-64 parts.  Also a great source for western weapons for your special operations Hind.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Jschmus on June 28, 2008, 01:19:36 pm
I was prowling around the Secret Projects forum this morning (mostly because the work computers filter this site) when I found the following.  These were apparently alternate configurations studied by Mil leading up to the more conventional Mi-28.  The first looks like it would be a fairly straightforward Mi-24 kitbash, while the second looks like a project and a half.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/jason_schmus/Prototypes/mi28mockup.jpg)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/jason_schmus/Prototypes/milthingy.jpg)

Look, Brian!  Helicopters with spats!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on June 28, 2008, 01:51:38 pm
I was about to suggest a dedicated gunship variant without the troop cabin, don't need to now! :thumbsup:  That twin rotor is great, good find Jason.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Bryan H. on July 01, 2008, 05:50:54 am
How about a hind with the Isotov TV3-117 turbines replaced with T64-GE-100 turboshafts (from the MH-53)? You go from 2x 1,600 kW to 2x 3,230 kW and seven bladed composite rotors

FLIR / IFR probe / TFR / 30mm cannon (as mentioned in a previous post)

Distributed Sensor System and single piece gunner canopy with HMD (FLIR display projected on gunner's Helmet mounted HUD, can see through the floor, etc)

Maybe a MMW radar on the mast

Sounds expensive :)

Definitely a "Westernized" Hind might find a market in certain markets - particularly if paired with a "Westernized" Mi-17 Hip.  You would get the best of both worlds Russian ruggedness and ease of maintenance with Western technology/weapons and engine reliability (at least in terms of time between overhaul).  There's a lot of variety of options with westernized Hinds & Hips.  Although, you have to be careful not to "tart" 'em up too much so you keep a certain level of simplicity.  The westernized Hind & Hip combination might be attractive to nations like Finland, Poland, Croatia, Slovenia, Brazil, Argentina, South Africa, Thailand, the Philippines, Australia, Mexico, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kenya...  I think the Texas War Department would be open to Westernized Hinds particularly for use in "colonial" settings.

 :cheers: Bryan   
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on July 01, 2008, 12:43:26 pm
Westernised fit would be good, the Ka-226 has done reasonably well from this approach.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on June 15, 2009, 08:25:29 pm
I summon this post back from the dead, in the honour of my latest project - Hind-o-mania.

I'm looking primarily for markings suggestions for the Four, yes Four, hinds I am building right now.  My four hinds to be are as follows:

Mi-24A - upgraded with improved optics and electronics from a dead 24V I have in stash.  Primarily loadout as a bomber of sorts, ideally carrying Napalm tanks and bombs on the wings, with AT-6's on the wings.  I see it serving in low-level ground support.

24V - AT-6 Wingtips, 80mm Rockets and UPK-23 pods, set up for hard-target strafing.

24P - AT-6 Wingtips, 57mm rockets, GUV-80 Gun Pods (12.7mm) - essentially, mass strafing of softer targets

24VM - no wingtips, KMGU-2 is an option - I might consider this one for an area-coverage unit of some form or another.

In essence, I'm doing all four of them in different roles, I have the Hobby Boss kit providing my weapons supply, thus the variety of options, so I'm open to suggestions for the -24VM fitting, and I'm seriously looking for paint scheme suggestions.  I'm considering doing Logan's Canadian Hind, and I do like Mossie's Overall Distemper scheme for winter, but the one I'm hung up on right now is the 24A Bomber-hind, and a good scheme for it.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on June 15, 2009, 09:34:18 pm
Alright, put heads together with Logan, he gave me a WICKED scheme for the 24A, which under my handiwork should come out pretty damn sexy - PLAAF Scaly Lizard.  24A under Vietnamese service, captured by the Chinese in a skirmish, or sold to the Chinese, reverse-engineered and upgraded, put into service for CAS with the PLAAF.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on December 21, 2009, 11:20:01 am
Tiltrotor trial - Mil V-24D:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/V24D.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on December 21, 2009, 12:36:35 pm
I think I need another Hind and another V-22!  :o

Awesome!  :bow:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: batmancustoms on December 21, 2009, 01:30:42 pm
I think I need another Hind and another V-22!  :o

Awesome!  :bow:

indeed sir!  freaking too cool!!!!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Taiidantomcat on December 21, 2009, 02:09:50 pm
I want to build that  :wub:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on December 21, 2009, 02:22:44 pm
I'm with you guys... damn, I gotta find the instruction sheets for a V-22... and see how much it would be to get the wings and engines and props for a V-22... Damn, that looks wicked.  A Tiltrotor with Teeth!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: arkon on December 21, 2009, 03:50:05 pm
hey gtx you got any other veiws to help clarify the wing to fusealoge , and are you intending to keep original hind engines?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on December 21, 2009, 07:10:47 pm
Looks like it, potentially as a redundant mounting I would imagine, or to generate additional torque on the rotors to increase thrust.

The Interesting part is the retention of the original stub wings as well, which I'm not sure how that would be applied well into place, but would be, agreeably, necessary.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 23, 2009, 02:14:50 am
Ooooh....like the sound of this......I had in mind a CSAR Hind....uprated engines wether hidden internal or using parts suggested....inboard pylons for fuel.....outboard for cannon pod/rocket pod/4 hellfire launcher...wing tip launchers would either have hellfire/stinger....all very mission dependant.....sliding doors puma style WITH a step of some sort as pointed out by someone to me.....winches above the doors....a trainable cannon in the nose like the Denel (?) South African super Hind (see film Blood Diamond)....dark colour wrap around scheme....was to be RAF bird and I had thought of KA50 Night Hunter as escorts.........damn the work/impending house move/sleep for getting in the way!!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Chris707 on December 24, 2009, 01:36:37 pm
The tilt-rotor idea is  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Comparable to the XV-15 gunship models I've seen but a LOT meaner!

I was thinking..and I still have that 1/48th scale Mi-24, to do something along the lines of the Sikorsky Rotor Systems Research Aircraft but using a Hind fuselage mated to A-10 engines and wings :-) They're both ugly as sin, so why not combine 'em?

(http://www.dataviewbooks.com/rsra.jpg)

Chris
-----------------------------------------------
A-10 walk-around (http://www.dataviewbooks.com/a-10closeup.html)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Hman on December 25, 2009, 04:13:25 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ22LDBb15Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ22LDBb15Q) - Mi-24 / Mi-35 promotional video.

Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 25, 2009, 06:35:41 pm
A question or two to the more mech minded..........I like the idea of the Kamov style twin rotor n H tail...my question's are.......Would the rotors be shorter in length and how many blades on each...........I know this is whiffing but I would like it to be plausible.......many thanks for any help.....H
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: elmayerle on December 25, 2009, 06:59:31 pm
A question or two to the more mech minded..........I like the idea of the Kamov style twin rotor n H tail...my question's are.......Would the rotors be shorter in length and how many blades on each...........I know this is whiffing but I would like it to be plausible.......many thanks for any help.....H

Stictly as a first approximation, I'd go with three blades per rotor and roughly two-thirds the "stock" length.  If you feel it approrpriate, a modest increase in blade chord, on both sides of the spar connecting it to the hub, would likely work well.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 25, 2009, 07:22:53 pm
Thanks.....the way I read it is the blades be shorter n wider.......
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: elmayerle on December 26, 2009, 09:46:05 am
Thanks.....the way I read it is the blades be shorter n wider.......

A succinct summary, 'cept not too short.  I wouldn't shorten them beyond two-thirds the length of the "stock" blades and would probably stop at three-quarters the stock length to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 26, 2009, 12:03:07 pm
Many thanks....just the answer I was after......it would also need an H type tail or fins on the rear tailplane (KA50/52 style) would it?.....H
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on December 26, 2009, 12:52:41 pm
I'm not sure the additional vertical stabilizers would be necessary, though you would have to modify the main vertical to lose the original fairing for the tail rotor.  The extra verticals would look interesting in Ka-50 style on the main tail though.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on December 27, 2009, 02:44:19 pm
Folks,

The V-24D was supposed to represent a trials bird.  In other words, the tilting pods would be simply attacked with something simple and the rotors removed.  I will try to do a front view shortly to explain better.  For a operational version, I would do something neater.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on December 28, 2009, 01:52:38 pm
Sea Hind - I don't know why either:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/SeaHind.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 28, 2009, 01:55:15 pm
Sea Hind - I don't know why either:


For the sheer hell of it! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on December 28, 2009, 01:56:23 pm
I think it needs pontoons on the wingtips as well, or else it's going to be unbalanced really.

It's a rather interesting idea, really, if you think about it.  Not sure what purpose it would serve.  Could use the 24P's 30mm side-mount though.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Just call me Ray on December 29, 2009, 12:32:03 am
I don't know why either:

You shouldn't ask those questions here :)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 16, 2010, 04:57:38 am
....as to what the little tube under the two larger ones is please? I been Google'ing n Jeeves'ing it....found a few pics but no info.....I'm wondering if it is some sort of SA7 field modification...?.....many thanks for any help.....H

(http://www.asiatradingonline.com/Mi24-Hind.jpg)

(http://www.allbestwallpapers.com/wallpaper/military/image/mi-24_hind_military_aviation_helicopter.jpg)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Maverick on September 16, 2010, 05:12:08 am
G'day AoO,

I'd have to concur with the SA-7 idea.  It seems the most logical store to be there given it's small dimensions and general shape.

Had a look webwise thru a few English language sites and found nothing mentioning it.  Perhaps if we have any Russian speakers in the crew, they might be able to shed more light as I'm sure Cryllic based pages would have to mention something.

Regards,

Mav
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Taiidantomcat on September 16, 2010, 06:12:48 am
I have seen that top pic plenty of times and NEVER even noticed that tube! Great catch!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 16, 2010, 06:25:21 am
Many thanks....seen a few diff versions of the pic....this one with the heat haze (?) backround and another that has a clearer background....I wasn't sure if it was real/photoshopped model....seen a few other pics of that armamant fit,just nothing to say what it is...... :banghead:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Slerski on September 16, 2010, 09:34:44 am
Me think it's an Igla-1V, a modified variant of SA-16 Igla (Short range AAM, issued from the MANPADS).
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 16, 2010, 01:51:25 pm
Is that an updated SA7 then?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on September 16, 2010, 02:19:54 pm
I remember an Air Force Monthly article describing Mi-24s used by an US military aggressor unit which said that they mounted Stinger missiles on the Crocs in the same manner as depicted in the picture.  Wouldn't be inconceivable that this is inspired by the Soviets themselves.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 16, 2010, 02:53:57 pm
Cool.....just looked closer at the pic of the Hind in flight.....is it a 3 barrel weapon instead of the normal 4 barrel HMG mounted....?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: NARSES2 on September 17, 2010, 01:03:09 am
Is that an updated SA7 then?

Here you are BUT remember this is Wikepedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla)

Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 17, 2010, 06:34:02 am
Chris.................thanks,not even sure what airforce these are operated by.....seem to be devoid of markings...even the big safety marking near the tail rotor......I can't find out anything else about them in my limited searches..... :banghead:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Jschmus on September 17, 2010, 06:40:24 am
I can't remember how I came by this image, it might've even been on here, but I downloaded it in the last week or so.  It's a Venezuelan Mi-35M.  The wingtip mount looks a little crowded.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on September 17, 2010, 07:24:46 am
And it's not even filled to capacity!  :o Mi-35M can use the launcher for 8 ATGMs the Mi-28 uses (which the Venezuelans also ordered!).

I have seen that top pic plenty of times and NEVER even noticed that tube! Great catch!  :cheers:

Same here! :lol:

Regarding AAMs on Hinds, how about this?

(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9243/wwwfotogalerialietadlac.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/i/wwwfotogalerialietadlac.jpg/)

This was a prank by the armourers. The way it sits there, it's not possible to launch the Aphids, but I reckon it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to properly wire the AAMs.
Found in THIS THREAD (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?p=1452989) over on Keypublishing Forums.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Taiidantomcat on September 17, 2010, 07:37:16 am
Thanks for sharing that Mi-35M pic! Lots of interesting details all over it.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Logan Hartke on September 17, 2010, 07:59:11 am
I can't remember how I came by this image, it might've even been on here, but I downloaded it in the last week or so.  It's a Venezuelan Mi-35M.  The wingtip mount looks a little crowded.

That's because it's not actually the wingtip mount.  The latest Hinds had the end of the wings chopped off.  They're now more stub wings.  See?  Only 2 stations per side instead of 3.  They didn't make the outer stations stronger, they cut them off completely.

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 17, 2010, 10:22:53 am
Some great pics there.. :thumbsup:..The Mi 35....that got a 4 bladed rotor? Looks similar to the one of the Mi 28.....diff nose gun as well..?....I think with this beast.....just about anything goes...... ;D....now,to try n get some of the Revell re-boxed Monogram ones....seen the box art...can't find one for sale.....
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on September 17, 2010, 10:30:42 am
The Mi 35....that got a 4 bladed rotor? Looks similar to the one of the Mi 28.....diff nose gun as well..?

Look again- the rotor is still 5 bladed.

The nose gun was replaced with a twin-barrel 23mm cannon.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Logan Hartke on September 17, 2010, 10:39:28 am
The old 3-blade tail rotor was replaced by the 4-blade scissor rotor like the Mi-28 has, though.  Also, in a weight-saving measure, the gear no longer retracts.  It helps altitude and maintenance, but hurts top speed and aesthetics.

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on September 17, 2010, 10:51:42 am
The Mi 35....that got a 4 bladed rotor? Looks similar to the one of the Mi 28.....diff nose gun as well..?

Look again- the rotor is still 5 bladed.

The nose gun was replaced with a twin-barrel 23mm cannon.

Sorry....should have said...my typo as I was referring to the tail rotor.......from 3 to 4 blades......H
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on September 17, 2010, 02:32:34 pm
This was a prank by the armourers. The way it sits there, it's not possible to launch the Aphids, but I reckon it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to properly wire the AAMs.

How would a version of ATE Superhind Mk.V with four R-60s have sounded?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on October 05, 2010, 07:05:05 am
....as to what the little tube under the two larger ones is please? I been Google'ing n Jeeves'ing it....found a few pics but no info.....I'm wondering if it is some sort of SA7 field modification...?.....many thanks for any help.....H

(http://www.asiatradingonline.com/Mi24-Hind.jpg)

http://www.allbestwallpapers.com/wallpaper/military/image/mi-24_hind_military_aviation_helicopter.jpg

The plot thickens! I just found out (via Wikipedia, of all places :rolleyes:), that the first pic is a DOD image of a Hind operated by the US.   :o
HERE'S (http://www.defenseimagery.mil/imagery.html#a=search&s=mi-24&t=0&p=5&guid=3b3c66dff48552c1a850a19a4c0d2423cdd4a1f4) the pic on DefenseImagery.Mil. The caption reads: Right side front view medium shot at a Russian made Hind Mi-24 helicopter from the Army Test and Evaluation Center, Threat Support Activity, Las Vegas, Nevada, taxis back after providing simulated hostile threats to Search and Rescue operations, during Desert Rescue. Desert Rescue is a Joint Service Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR), exercise designed to fully integrate planning and execution of both immediate and dedicated missions. Location: NAVAL AIR STATION FALLON

So this is in fact the Mi-24 of the US aggressor unit dy031101 mentioned a couple of posts above, which would make the missiles Stingers.

Regarding SA-7s mounted on helicopters, the German Wikipedia article (CLICKY! (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7_Grail)) on the SA-7 Grail says there's a version named 9K32MV Strela-2MV for air-to-air use on helicopters.

How would a version of ATE Superhind Mk.V with four R-60s have sounded?

Sounds good to me! :wacko:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on November 27, 2010, 05:31:46 pm
Many thanks for the info.....on the third page of this thread I posted a pic of one in flight....I have found no other refferance re 3 barrel machine gun/cannon....which is what it appears to be armed with.....anyone shed any light on this please.....?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: pyro-manic on November 27, 2010, 06:23:32 pm
Pure speculation, but isn't that the same one (or at least similar) as the previous picture, ie an American-operated aggressor aircraft? It has those same small tubes on the wingtip stations. In which case, might it have been re-armed with an American weapon, such as the GAU-19? This is a .50 weapon, with three- and six-barrelled variants. Or it could be a dummy.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Jschmus on November 27, 2010, 06:34:31 pm
Many thanks for the info.....on the third page of this thread I posted a pic of one in flight....I have found no other refferance re 3 barrel machine gun/cannon....which is what it appears to be armed with.....anyone shed any light on this please.....?

That image appears to be an Mi-35 export model, and all I've read suggests that that model can be armed with different weapons according to the user's specs.  No info yet on the specific weapon, though.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on November 27, 2010, 10:13:28 pm
Thanks for the replies....I don't think they are the same helo due to the numerous differences....although the idea of it being a GECAL .50 cal sounds plausible
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on November 28, 2010, 08:44:24 am
That could be a GAU-19, or it could be the original YakB which is also a three-barrel .50Russian chaingun.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: pyro-manic on November 28, 2010, 08:58:19 am
The Yak-B has four barrels, not three. That's the confusing thing - it looks pretty much identical to the Yak-B, but minus a barrel.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on November 28, 2010, 11:14:11 am
Don't think it's a GAU-19. Look at the barrels. They're too close together (almost touching at the muzzles). On the GAU-19 they're much farther apart.

I think the pylon adapter on the inboard pylon indicates that this is one of the Hinds used in OPFOR roles by the US, with the new pylon used to carry US stores. Here's another pic of the Mi-24P seen above. Look at the belly, where you can just make out a red ACMI pod mounted to the inner starboard pylon.

(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/408/dfsd02082355fx.jpg)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on November 28, 2010, 01:32:41 pm
Those are 30mm GSh-30K twin-barrel cannons and very much a Russian idea.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on November 28, 2010, 02:02:13 pm
Yes....they are on the one on the ground....the weapon in question is the (apparently) three barred chin turret gun on the airborne photo....
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on November 28, 2010, 03:00:43 pm
The pic again:

Three barrels. Tightly grouped. Doesn't look like a GAU-19 and also doesn't look like a Yak-B with just one barrel missing (which would have the muzzles in a right-angled triangle and not the isosceles triangle we can see in this pic).

Going by the absent landing light on the port side, this is a Mi-24D (even though it sports AT-6s) or it's export model, the Mi-25. Mi-24s from the Mi-24V onwards had the additional landing light (can be seen in the pic of the Mi-24P above).

Maybe this is just some dummy installation? Maybe they needed the Yak-B for something else and installed a mock-up in its place?  I don't think they'd actually need a working MG in a threat simulator, which might also explain the AT-6 ATGMs on the older variant of the Hind.

(http://www.allbestwallpapers.com/wallpaper/military/image/mi-24_hind_military_aviation_helicopter.jpg)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Shasper on November 30, 2010, 11:20:23 am
Dunno if this got mentioned, but the US Army does have an "Aggressor" unit based at Ft. Polk, Louisiana that flies Hinds, as well as Hips (and I think they've got a Colt or two as well).
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on November 30, 2010, 05:31:24 pm
Got this from a user on "flugzeugforum.de" who was, AFAIK, a crew chief on Mi-24s in the NVA-LSK (Air Force of German Democratic Republic's National People's Army). The two Hinds above are both ex-NVA-LSK Hinds. The SA-7 launchers are mock-ups (still trying to find out whether they're just mock-ups with a real background or completely made-up). He also can't identify the gun, but says the gun mount was altered as well.
Yefim Gordon's book says that one US Mi-24 was fitted with an M197 for a short time before reverting to the original gun. This, however, can't be the one, as this pic was taken several years after the M197 was removed.

HERE'S (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nLCw6vCcM_zlWHWQa2zqwg) the pic again on Picasa Web Albums, with some further annotations:
"A Soviet made MI-24 Hind helicopter gunship flown by U.S. Army Test and Evaluation (ATEC) Command Threat Support Activity pilots, Biggs Army Airfield, Fort. Bliss Texas attacks Air Defense Artillery (ADA) units during Roving Sands 2000 on June 18, 2000. Stretching across the United States, incorporating all four Services and their National Guard and Reserve components, and with ever growing multi-national participation the total force exercise Roving Sands is the world’s largest joint theater air andmissile defense exercise. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Jim Varhegyi) (RELEASED)"
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 06, 2010, 03:57:43 pm
Since Mav did a profile request from Cobra for a SAR Mi-24 the other day, I've had an idea forming in my mind about a naval Hind.

Here's the original profile:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/MilMi-24NavalSAR.jpg)

So maybe a Hind A as a major naval variant, ASW, SAR, AEW.  Bubble nose versions taking on the assault role.  Fixed gear similar to a Hip to save weight, with shorter stub wings & less hard points to allow for easier deck handling.  Any further thoughts?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 06, 2010, 04:18:00 pm
I like the idea.....fixed under carriage like the Hip or Kamov Helix/Hormone......The A as you said in the roles mentioned. Are you thinking crew comfort re larger cabin..? No need for the nose gun....mix of torps/depth charges..? How would you extend the range..? Fuel tank in the rear cabin..? Leave the hardpoints for hardware..?....Never made an A variant,closest I came was the Airfix 1/72 kit that gave the option for A or D.....D it was....!!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 07, 2010, 04:37:56 am
Crew comfort???  Nyet comrade, you forget yourself!!!  Comfort is an captalist obscenity & would make our Gloroius Navy weak!  We would not be Soviet without struggle, da?  Besides, all soft furnishings have been requisitioned by the Politburo....

I was purely thinking the Hind A cabin would suit a naval version better from a point of view of crew visibility & general utility.  The armoured bathtub of later models would only be needed for the assault variant, the fixed guns of the Hind F might be useful for this too.  Extra range could be obtained by a tank in the cabin, on hard points for certain missions or possibly mounted to the fuselage.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 07, 2010, 02:46:40 pm
Ha....! I should have known better.......agree with your observations comrade...!!!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: chrisonord on December 07, 2010, 03:10:28 pm
If I could get the decals, I would make a British Police version, and have transit vans towing long caravans (pikeys) as kill markings down one side, and chav'd up Citroen Saxo's on the other  :wacko:
Chris.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 07, 2010, 03:26:13 pm
Awesome....!!! What main colour would you do.....?? Like the Met I99....dark blue and yellow....? I have thought about a Met Hind along with some form of 8 wheel APC type vehicle.....Stryker..? Gang/Drug wars escalate to silly level....!!!!
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: James on December 08, 2010, 05:11:56 am
I was purely thinking the Hind A cabin would suit a naval version better from a point of view of crew visibility & general utility.  The armoured bathtub of later models would only be needed for the assault variant, the fixed guns of the Hind F might be useful for this too.  Extra range could be obtained by a tank in the cabin, on hard points for certain missions or possibly mounted to the fuselage.

I think you are right about the Hind A. The fixed guns on the Hind F would be ideal for supporting amphibious  assault. You could even uprate the guns.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 09, 2010, 02:40:00 am
No such thing as too much firepower!!!  How would you upgrade it?  Would it be possible to fit another pair of 30mm on the other side?  Maybe replace them with a single gattling type cannon, if the Soviets have such a thing?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Maverick on December 09, 2010, 03:14:31 am
Simon,

The Soviets developed a multi-barrel cannon for the MiG-27.  There were two variants deployed: the Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 and GSh-6-30, the latter replacing the former on the MiG-27M.

HTH,

Mav
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 09, 2010, 03:32:25 am
Hmm, just looked them up.  The Gsh-6-30 is perhaps on the heavy side, but the Gsh-6-23 is promising.  Might be useful if you need rate of fire over calibre, although it'd probably exhaust it's ammo quickly.  Short bursts would be the order of the day.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: pyro-manic on December 09, 2010, 06:39:19 am
Just fit a great big ammo bin in the cabin. :wacko:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: rickshaw on December 09, 2010, 07:12:04 pm
Hmm, just looked them up.  The Gsh-6-30 is perhaps on the heavy side, but the Gsh-6-23 is promising.  Might be useful if you need rate of fire over calibre, although it'd probably exhaust it's ammo quickly.  Short bursts would be the order of the day.

"Short bursts" are ALWAYS the "order of the day" when using heavy, automatic weapons.   Only Hollywood uses long bursts.   If you fire a long burst, you will encounter cooling problems which may lead to a "cook off" (spontaneous firing as soon as the round enters the chamber before the breech block is locked) or much worse, you could "burn out" the barrel - removing the rifling. 
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on December 10, 2010, 05:17:16 am
Well, yeah, I meant 'shorter' bursts.  I've seen A-10's do bursts several seconds long, although usually they were around a second.  I'm guessing it wouldn't take many of those longer bursts to empty the magazine.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: philp on December 10, 2010, 05:46:08 am
The Somilan decals someone was sending me never showed up.  Must have got caught up in Customs someplace.  I have the old AMT E version which I planned on doing for the Talk Like a Pirate GB but was going to do it in an Anti-Pirate configuration :wacko:.  Storyline was going to be something along the lines that the other world's countries have provided support to a new government as long as they work on stopping the Piracy going on from their country.  Think the D version would be better for this with the gun turret for targeting small boats but that isn't the version I have so...
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 10, 2010, 11:03:22 am
The next model I will be working on will 98% be a Hind......it will be configured as a CSAR helo...with it will be its escorts.....but what?? I was thinking first of KA 50's.....a pair buzzing around while the Hind picks up.......but I like the Mi 28 as well....so the Hind picking up and a pair of Havocs buzzing around WITH a Hokum flitting around here n there......I am just interested in the pick up site and surrounding area.....not interested in ranges and stuff....these will be a 'What if...??' RAF CSAR troop......probably the wrong thread to post on but....this is for lovers of the Big Ugly Bird... :wub:.....so I thought you would be sympathetic.....any ideas welcomed... :thumbsup:..H

PS....I had thought of A129's as escorts as well...........
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on December 10, 2010, 11:47:44 am
Ka-50s sound good (don't they always?), with a Ka-52 as a mission control bird.  :thumbsup: Apparently that's how the Russians intend to use them.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Army of One on December 10, 2010, 02:06:23 pm
Mmmmmmm...yes Moritz.......can see where you are coming from there........how about two KA 50's with a Mi 28 control bird.....?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on April 17, 2011, 05:29:54 pm
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/dy031101/SuperCrocMkV.jpg)

Another ATE Superhind Mk.V picture that I found.  I guess it's going the same way as the Mi-35 with the stubwing loadout.

EDIT: Now that I looked at it again, the pic seemed Photoshopped- the intake filters and underwing missiles don't seem all that natural.  Nevertheless, a relatively-clear illustration of how the Superhind Mk.V might look like......
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: rickshaw on April 17, 2011, 06:35:51 pm
The HIND was designed originally as an "assault transport" and has a small cabin for carrying passengers.  This makes it considerably larger than a dedicated attack helicopter needs to be.  Anyone care to have a go at designing a HIND without the passenger cabin?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on April 18, 2011, 06:24:18 pm
The HIND was designed originally as an "assault transport" and has a small cabin for carrying passengers.  This makes it considerably larger than a dedicated attack helicopter needs to be.  Anyone care to have a go at designing a HIND without the passenger cabin?

Interesting idea - for some reason I keep imagining it with a significant weapons bay (maybe even replacing the wing pylons - thus keeping clean for high speed).  Maybe an arrangement similar to the RAH-66:

(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8900/rah66hlf4zl.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: rickshaw on April 18, 2011, 08:29:16 pm
Greg,  that'd work but wouldn't you lose a significant amount of lift that the stub wings provide? You'd also need to clean up the airframe an awful lot to get any real stealth benefit if that was why you were doing it?
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: GTX on April 18, 2011, 10:18:35 pm
I would still keep the wings but would perhaps have them in clean configuration (or maybe not).

I wasn't really worried about stealth ...more interested in speed and firepower/persistence....oh and it just might look cool ;D.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Sauragnmon on April 19, 2011, 05:03:29 am
It would be interesting to see a Hind modified with the payload bay like that.  Probably have a couple of internal hooks for bombs, missiles on the bay doors... yeah it'd be interesting.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Taiidantomcat on April 19, 2011, 08:35:19 am
The HIND was designed originally as an "assault transport" and has a small cabin for carrying passengers.  This makes it considerably larger than a dedicated attack helicopter needs to be.  Anyone care to have a go at designing a HIND without the passenger cabin?

Ha! Been done!

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,29369.105.html

tons of variants on the following pages as well^

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,31182.0.html

My still in progress 72 scale Hind SKL^
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: chrisonord on April 19, 2011, 09:20:04 am
All this talk about super Hinds, pictures of and kitbashes using Hinds has got my sawdust on the verge of combustion :wacko:
Time to dig into the grave yard again me thinks, Mi-37 ultra Hind anybody??
Watch this space ;) :wacko:
Chris.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on April 21, 2011, 04:15:26 pm
The HIND was designed originally as an "assault transport" and has a small cabin for carrying passengers.  This makes it considerably larger than a dedicated attack helicopter needs to be.  Anyone care to have a go at designing a HIND without the passenger cabin?

Jschmus posted a pic of an early mock-up of the Mi-28 on page 1 that looks very much like a dedicated Hind gunship, the link's broken though.  Luckily, I saved it. :thumbsup:

EDIT deleted due to Jason fixing his link, have a look back on page one for this ugly beauty.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: chrisonord on April 21, 2011, 05:13:02 pm
Already started building mine  ;)
Chris.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Jschmus on April 21, 2011, 10:45:41 pm
Mossie,

I didn't know the links were broken, but I went back and fixed them.  I haven't really been on Photobucket in months, and they've changed things a lot, not least my links and embeds and what-not.
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: dy031101 on April 21, 2011, 11:08:09 pm
Now I couldn't help to wonder what if the form factor of the Mi-28 is incorporated into the Mi-24...... like another interpretation of Superhind Mk.V?

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/dy031101/mi-28.jpg)
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on April 27, 2011, 09:32:27 am
Mossie,

I didn't know the links were broken, but I went back and fixed them.  I haven't really been on Photobucket in months, and they've changed things a lot, not least my links and embeds and what-not.

No probs, I'll delete mine to save on photos. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: ChernayaAkula on May 05, 2011, 05:20:52 pm
Found something cool:

Mi-35M with quad SA-7/14/16/18 launcher:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3945270076_94677bf26f_b.jpg)
SOURCE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/3945270076/sizes/l/in/photostream/) (with link to much bigger version)

It looks like two of this twin launcher from this Mi-35M, just stacked:

(http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mi-35m.jpg)

The Hind itself might actually be the same one, just at different times with different sensor fits (note the EO turret).
 
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: Mossie on February 29, 2020, 07:02:55 am
Something a bit unusual, Czech Hind in Coastal Command colours, commemorating a 311 (Czech) Sqn B-24.
 https://www.helis.com/database/cn/18831/
Title: Re: Mi-24 Hind
Post by: zenrat on March 01, 2020, 02:49:32 am
Something a bit unusual, Czech Hind in Coastal Command colours, commemorating a 311 (Czech) Sqn B-24.
 https://www.helis.com/database/cn/18831/

Cool.  Looks good.