What if

GROUP BUILDS => 2019 Group Builds => The Knackers Yard => The Out of Retirement G.B. => Topic started by: kitnut617 on November 01, 2019, 04:32:44 pm

Title: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 01, 2019, 04:32:44 pm
OK, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring here, even though my record for completing GB's hasn't been that great lately.

My plan is to have an F-82 brought out of retirement to be used as CAS in Vietnam, middle 60's or so.

Some time ago I had cobbled together a F-82 with different cowlings to what the Monogram/Revell/Modelcraft kit has, which are Allison engines. My story is it was powered by RR Griffons.

The F-82 was ear-marked as a ground attack aircraft very early in it's development, there's numerous photos on the internet showing intended ordnance, gun pods, RPs and bombs. This project will be in typical USAF SEA camo of the period.

Here's a pic of the idea, it's still in this state today and I'll post up-to-date pics soon..

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/d1f23551-a4af-4d7a-bcf0-b996aa5b2c61.JPG)
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: kitnut617 on November 01, 2019, 04:43:52 pm
If anyone is wondering where the name came from, there was a North American A-36 Apache. This was a Mustang specifically for ground attack. I'm continuing with the native naming theme and the A-46 designation comes from the next number unused for an attack aircraft, which seems to be about this time period ---
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 01, 2019, 10:08:23 pm
The numbering reset to zero in 1962 with the standardization across services, which is why
the Skyraider became the A-1, Savage A-2, Skywarrior A-3, Skyhawk A-4, Vigilante A-5 etc.

The old numbering system was defunct.
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: zenrat on November 01, 2019, 10:36:06 pm
The numbering reset to zero in 1962 with the standardization across services, which is why
the Skyraider became the A-1, Savage A-2, Skywarrior A-3, Skyhawk A-4, Vigilante A-5 etc.

The old numbering system was defunct.

Only in OTL.   :mellow:

Did they ever use Crow as name?
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: rickshaw on November 02, 2019, 01:47:29 am
The numbering reset to zero in 1962 with the standardization across services, which is why
the Skyraider became the A-1, Savage A-2, Skywarrior A-3, Skyhawk A-4, Vigilante A-5 etc.

The old numbering system was defunct.

Only in OTL.   :mellow:

Did they ever use Crow as name?

Quote
Big Crow

Big Crow is the designation of the two NKC-135 test-bed aircraft (55-3132 and 63-8050) heavily modified for electronic warfare testing. These planes were also used as a target simulator for flight testing the Boeing YAL-1 Airborne Laser.[5] On March 15, 2007, the YAL-1 successfully fired this laser in flight, hitting its target. The target was the NKC-135E Big Crow 1 test aircraft that had been specially modified with a "signboard" target on its fuselage. The test validated the system's ability to track an airborne target and measure and compensate for atmospheric distortion.[6]

Big Crow aircraft are also used as downrange telemetry assets in conjunction with Western Launch and Test Range launches from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.[7]

Since 2008, 55-3132 and 63-8050 have been retired, and relegated to the AMARG (Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson, AZ).[8][9]
[Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_NC-135#Big_Crow)]

 ;)
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: zenrat on November 02, 2019, 04:30:36 am
Sorry, didn't make myself clear.
I meant did they ever name an aircraft after the Crow tribe in the same way they have the Apache, Mojave, Sioux, Cayuse, Mohawk...
Nothing comes up in a web search.
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 06:29:16 am
Fred, I'm fairly sure the answer is no to that.

Thanks Jon for the clarification, so this is either pre-'62 or they haven't got around to re-numbering it   ;D
Title: Re: North American A-46 Arapahoe
Post by: kerick on November 02, 2019, 07:25:31 am
The US Army uses the Native American naming theme so you could make this a US Army aircraft that was "stolen" from the Air Force from the boneyard. Plus all the political rivalry hoopla that would stir up!

Then there is the whole A-26 renamed to B-26 then renamed back to A-26 Invader story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-26_Invader

Long story short, just name it whatever you like and blame it on the CIA!
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 10:03:14 am
OK, now I'm going to come up with something different to call it. Think on it I will ----
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 11:33:56 am
Just realign the F number.

I thought about that but ------
Title: Re: North American A-8 Twin Mustang
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 11:39:36 am
So I've come up with a designation. I looked at the new designation list Jon had referred to, there's a number which was skipped which appears to be in the right time line, which is A-8. There is a note saying that McDonnell picked it up for their AV-8 which is not the same is it ---
Now what name to call it ---- hmm, thinking hard here ----- I know, something novel ---- how about Twin Mustang   ;D
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2019, 12:54:00 pm
Or keep CIA type obfuscation and use A-11, which was an internal Lockheed designation,
not a DoD designation.  :wacko:

Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 01:27:58 pm
I thought about that one too Jon, but it comes after A-10 which of course was designated to the -- err -- A-10   ;D  which came quite a bit later timewise
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 02, 2019, 02:37:12 pm
I thought about that one too Jon, but it comes after A-10 which of course was designated to the -- err -- A-10   ;D  which came quite a bit later timewise

Thus the CIA obfuscation.  :wacko:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 02, 2019, 04:54:47 pm
I thought about that one too Jon, but it comes after A-10 which of course was designated to the -- err -- A-10   ;D  which came quite a bit later timewise

Thus the CIA obfuscation.  :wacko:

 ;D

Now what would the CIA be doing with a CAS aircraft    :angel:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 02, 2019, 05:34:27 pm
I thought about that one too Jon, but it comes after A-10 which of course was designated to the -- err -- A-10   ;D  which came quite a bit later timewise

Thus the CIA obfuscation.  :wacko:

 ;D

Now what would the CIA be doing with a CAS aircraft    :angel:


Similar things to what they did running an airline (Air America...……………)  ;)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kerick on November 02, 2019, 07:19:42 pm
CIA was running the B-26/A-26 in Laos.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 03, 2019, 06:21:07 am
Hmm! the plot thickens  =====  :wacko:

Now how can I work this into my backstory, what with the aircraft loaded to the ti!$, err! I mean has a lot of stores on it  ;D
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: Mossie on November 03, 2019, 07:27:14 am
Convair Advanced Designs Ii has a an A-8 study in it, which was a turboprop replacement for the Skyraider.  They give the same reason for the skip, Harrier.

There's always A-9 though, your timeline might just bump along the later machines.  A-2 as well, because who remembers the Savage???  :wacko:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 03, 2019, 09:49:04 am
Convair had a competitor in the OV-10 program, the Model 48 Simon. Can't find anything about a Skyraider turbo-prop replacement though. Douglas had the Skyshark A2D.

But I might go with Jon's suggestion, the A-11. Just need To find out if SEA camo was used on a CAS aircraft by them. Plus what sort of markings too ---
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 03, 2019, 10:43:20 am
Another thing about A-11 is that it has never been officially assigned, unlike
the A-12 which was the Dorito.

One could really build on the spook aspect and use A-13, as -13 designations
aren't used on US aircraft in the post-1962 series, supposedly for superstitious
reasons.
 :wacko:

Really confuse the issue by not assigning a model suffix, so just A-11 rather
than A-11A.
 :wacko:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 03, 2019, 10:52:44 am
OK, A-11 it is   ;D

I imagine the marking would be suitable obscure, basically star-&-bars with no codes to speak off ---
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: Mossie on November 03, 2019, 12:55:05 pm
Convair had a competitor in the OV-10 program, the Model 48 Simon. Can't find anything about a Skyraider turbo-prop replacement though. Douglas had the Skyshark A2D.

But I might go with Jon's suggestion, the A-11. Just need To find out if SEA camo was used on a CAS aircraft by them. Plus what sort of markings too ---

Convair Model 100, half way down the Secret Projects page:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/ax-contenders-alternatives-to-the-fairchild-a-10-thunderbolt-ii.2615/page-4

It seems to have been an A-X precursor ( may have been called this later on) and was only referred to as A-8 unofficially.  There were a few versions, T64 and T56 powered, tandem and single seat.  Early versions had a t-tail, later ones had a conventional tail but all variants were broadly similar.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kerick on November 03, 2019, 04:22:20 pm
A-11 and A-12 was used by the CIA for the predecessor to the SR-71. Of course it didn’t stand for attack. Probably something the spooks used to throw people off of what the real purpose was. Just like how the U-2 could have been mistaken for utility aircraft.
A-11 sounds just fine for your project. I’m just being a stinker. Your build, build it and name it your way!
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 03, 2019, 06:12:53 pm
A-11 and A-12 was used by the CIA for the predecessor to the SR-71. Of course it didn’t stand for attack. Probably something the spooks used to throw people off of what the real purpose was. Just like how the U-2 could have been mistaken for utility aircraft.
A-11 sounds just fine for your project. I’m just being a stinker. Your build, build it and name it your way!

A-3 through A-12 were internal Lockheed designations
for the various configurations explored in developing the
SR-71 and YF-12, it had nothing to do with the CIA.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: Snowtrooper on November 04, 2019, 02:48:27 am
On the other hand, you could dual designate and call it the AF-82. (F/A-82 would be anachronistic, as it was invented for the Hornet to keep the peace between fighter and attack pilots.)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: zenrat on November 04, 2019, 02:54:16 am
It's very thoughtless of these military bureaucracies not to leave more gaps in their designations for us to use.

Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: NARSES2 on November 04, 2019, 07:21:14 am
Reading all this rather confusing info perhaps explains why the RAF and numerous other air forces give their aircraft official names.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 04, 2019, 10:04:56 am
You got it salt6, and I might just fall back and do that.

At the moment though it's an A-11 Twin Mustang. Just figuring out the CIA angle to the backstory.

Anyway, here's a few pics of what I'm using. I was going to use the black F-82 kit you see in the photo I post earlier, however I've noticed that I had started to modify one of the fuselages so the Merlin would fit it. So I'm going to use another one.

Sometime ago, Hannants had a sale on for this kit, so I bought four IIRC, I've found two of them.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/4028004e-878a-4ae1-8fa3-4f02bc6f6843.JPG)

Contents:

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c23f7109-672b-4968-adda-309563cf58f4.JPG)

And these are some of the bits I'll be using:

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/4d75d9ae-1cc2-43bd-a283-1d3f6d5dcb9d.JPG)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 04, 2019, 10:19:19 am
I had already decided I was going to put wingtip tanks on it before someone mentioned it, frees up all the hardpoints for ordnance  ;)

I'm going to use some Zuni RP pods but all I can find in my stash at the moment is two of them. As I need these pods on other projects I'm going to make a mould of them and cast up a few.
Same with the other RP launchers you see there, it's those 'bazooka' styled ones with six launch tubes.
I'll go with just the two Mk.82 bombs with the fuse extenders and I'm thinking maybe two or four napalm bombs too (if I can find where I put them).
Under each outer wing there will be six pylons (off a Skyraider as that kit will be used for an AEW project) and the gun pod is an SUU-23. Only it won't be like that once I've finished with it.

The engine cowling comes from an Airfix Fairey Firefly Mk.IV which previously I had just cobbled together for the other project it will be used on (RAF F-82's but that's another story). I found that I had to modify it slightly so it would mate-up to the F-82 fuselage joint properly, I've had add a sliver of styrene strip to the glue joint, tapering from .5mm at the rear to nothing at the front. I also swiped a couple of exhaust stub fairings from the new tool Airfix Shackleton MR.2 kit, as in the backstory that's where the engines came from.  I had to add a disk of styrene to the front because the Frog (spawn) Shackleton contra-props don't have enough spinner at the rear of the rear spinner, and also some styrene added to the rear of the cowling just to lengthen it a bit. I'll make some casting of this too, I've got a couple other projects I'm thinking of using them on.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e613d5a3-c1a3-41af-9ef2-4de0bc48bdef.JPG)

So that's the plan so far -------
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 04, 2019, 01:49:46 pm
Reading all this rather confusing info perhaps explains why the RAF and numerous other air forces give their aircraft official names.

??? The US does as well, and has for decades, the USN made it official policy as of October 1941.

Is Role-Type number_model suffix, Name really any more confusing than the Brit Name, Role (if specified), Mark?
 ;D
Especially seeing as in the latter system role can be a single letter or multiple letters with periods between,
as to the mark numbers the Roman numeral versions can be unwieldy and confusing, which is why they were
dropped was it not?

It's all what one is familiar with and any system can be learned, even pre-1962 USN and the IJN systems,
they have a logical breakdown by role and manufacturer, unlike IJA Ki- numbers and RLM numbers, which
are sequential and don't indicate role. At least the RLM designations indicate manufacturer, the IJA numbers
do not.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 04, 2019, 02:08:34 pm
IF I understand correctly, this aircraft was brought back into service.  I would think to keep the numbering straight they would go with something like AF82 or FA82.  This would not interfere with the new numbering system.

Following the official designation system it would be AF-82, as any letter code indicating a special purpose
is added as a prefix to the existing role designator i.e. K for Tanker, thus KC-135, KC-10, KA-6D etc.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: zenrat on November 05, 2019, 02:54:07 am
... the other RP launchers you see there, it's those 'bazooka' styled ones with six launch tubes...

These...
(https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_03_2017/post-15260-0-16834800-1489670358_thumb.jpg)
...are SUU-14a submunition dispensers.  The triangular cap goes at the front and the submunitions come out the back as the plane flies over the target.
They are frequently seen mounted back to front on models and even on museum exhibits.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 05, 2019, 06:29:47 am
Cheers Fred, good to know ---  :thumbsup:

Works even better for the scenario I have in mind.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: NARSES2 on November 05, 2019, 06:48:25 am
Reading all this rather confusing info perhaps explains why the RAF and numerous other air forces give their aircraft official names.

??? The US does as well, and has for decades, the USN made it official policy as of October 1941.


Ah, live and learn. I thought the US system was an unofficial one. Cheers Jon  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: NARSES2 on November 05, 2019, 06:52:59 am

It's all what one is familiar with and any system can be learned, even pre-1962 USN and the IJN systems,
they have a logical breakdown by role and manufacturer,

Very much so Jon. I even got to understand the BS Steel Standards System after about 20 years  ;D

I've often wondered where you had such different systems in the same country (Japan for instance) what the manufacturer thought about this rivalry ?
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 05, 2019, 11:53:39 am

It's all what one is familiar with and any system can be learned, even pre-1962 USN and the IJN systems,
they have a logical breakdown by role and manufacturer,

Very much so Jon. I even got to understand the BS Steel Standards System after about 20 years  ;D

I've often wondered where you had such different systems in the same country (Japan for instance) what the manufacturer thought about this rivalry ?

It's not really important to manufacturers as they all use their own internal model designation schemes,
the customers can call them whatever they like.
 ;D
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: NARSES2 on November 06, 2019, 06:17:54 am

It's not really important to manufacturers as they all use their own internal model designation schemes,
the customers can call them whatever they like.
 ;D

As long as they pay on time, eh ?  ;)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 07, 2019, 12:26:17 pm
A major step today, I've got the cowlings cast up. Yesterday I made the mould and did the casting today. They've not turn out too bad, the first one has a couple of small bubbles showing but the second one came out alright. I might make another to see if I can get two cowlings without the bubbles showing.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/04c95e57-750c-436b-874b-db7e23a0f8b7.JPG)

I was able to mould the prop shaft hole in for about 20mm which will help when drilling the rest of it out. Here you can see inside the mould.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/3cd56443-948d-4035-a272-19e8c29517d4.JPG)

Here's the result, the one on the right I've cut the pour block off and drilled the hole out all the way to the rear end. I'll counter-bore the hole so I can get a retaining cap on the end of the prop shaft.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/6a9c196f-f05c-4df1-a75e-3e3a0f899553.JPG)

Quite please with the results ----- the air intake under the spinner came out quite crisp too ---

Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 07, 2019, 12:47:56 pm
I've been delving into what markings to use on this, and I've found just what I need.  I've got an Italeri B-26K Invader kit in the stash so looked in the box to see what decals are in there. There's options for five/six aircraft, three which are USAF markings. But there's not very many, there's no national stars & bars, or any walkway markings, just some fin markings of the serial number and the last three numbers of the serial which then goes on the nose gear bay doors. There is some nose art too which I'm going to use.

So the next thing I did was to see what serial numbers I have on the various F-82 kits in the stash (I've got Monogram, Revell and Modelcraft kits). There's a selection of six different serials between the kits, so I went on Joe Baugher's USAF serial number website. Checking through the groups of  F-82 serials I found one group that had numbers very similar, one of the schemes for the B-26K's has 64-646 and on the serial website I found there was an F-82 with a serial of 46-466 ----- convenient eh!
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 08, 2019, 01:35:37 pm
The modifications I've got planned have started, so here's a few pics of where it's at.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/fd80562a-8b31-4714-bda3-5118f297eba0.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/cdd85410-fc6e-471c-a5c6-9fe5e672d0fc.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/46f842c5-81ce-4c3b-b3f4-61ede12e1d22.JPG)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 08, 2019, 01:47:25 pm
The plan has always been to have it up-gunned, to give it more punch. The idea is the six .5's were deleted, and a M61 Vulcan cannon was used. However, the diameter of the six barrels grouped together is about the same as the depth of the main spar so the cannon can't go in the gun bay like the .5's did. So the idea is to mount the M61 under the wing where the breach and feed mechanism would just protrude through the bottom of the wing into the gun bay. Then the whole gun bay and associated ammo storage areas become one big ammo bin.

First thing I did was study a bunch of photos of the SUU-23 pod to find out where the breach and the feed mechanism are, then I shorten the pod accordingly.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/d0a8ac1f-202b-47d8-9457-2ea29ce1f14c.JPG)

At first I was going to carve the top of the pod off so it matched the bottom of the wing chord, but then realized it would be much easier if I just cut a hole in the wing instead.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/ea51c3d0-6ab4-4fbc-9488-d3d6c4547638.JPG)

Then it was just a case of setting at the right distance away from the bottom of the spar. There's a mounting bracket on the gun right where the barrels exit the breach so this is how the gun is mounted to the wing. Using the pod frame as a fairing makes it much easier.
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 08, 2019, 01:53:28 pm
Now I've got to decide what prop to use. I'm using some Shackleton props and I had previously cut down one set of props so the diameter was the same as the P-51H/F-82 props, because of what I'm going to do for another project. But having only one gun on the centerline, I can use the Shackleton prop not shortened. Not decided which way to go yet.

The standard prop diameter
(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/1d85f58e-0989-4441-87fc-969448ff520a.JPG)


And the shortened prop diameter one
(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/ae774131-ec02-472c-a6a8-910e5aaa7af6.JPG)


Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: Rick Lowe on November 08, 2019, 03:19:51 pm
Why aren't the pics showing?  :unsure:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 08, 2019, 03:24:05 pm
Why aren't the pics showing?  :unsure:

Um,  I can see them ---  :-\  Can anyone else see the pics ?
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: jalles on November 08, 2019, 04:33:39 pm
I can see the images just fine, looks awesome, very menacing. Love the contra-rotating props, great work on the resin casting too  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 08, 2019, 04:51:13 pm
Thanks Jason  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: kitnut617 on November 09, 2019, 05:53:53 am
Have you thought about the spent cases for the M61?

Yep! they're collected back into the storage area  ;) It has the link-less feed/recovery system
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: Rick Lowe on November 09, 2019, 12:15:11 pm
Why aren't the pics showing?  :unsure:

Um,  I can see them ---  :-\  Can anyone else see the pics ?

OK, just me then. Oh well, 'tis what 'tis...

Keep up the good work, anyway.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: TallEng on November 09, 2019, 01:22:09 pm
Me thinks the shortened Props, on account of the shockwaves/Blast effect from the M61
letting rip, might curl your blades that :o

Regards
Keith
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 11, 2019, 12:29:09 pm
The difference between the short blades and the standard blades is 2mm, so I had some thought about it and decided to go half way, I shortened the standard set by 1mm and squared off the tips.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/80a2ed96-f17f-40b9-b1e4-1aa4a1357842.JPG)

The idea is that to take full advantage of the engine power, the props need to be close to the right size. I'll probably have to make the u/c legs a little longer but I need to be able for them to retract into the same space. I've got an idea what I'm going to do, but more about that later.

I've sorted the wing tip tanks, a couple of Shackleton ones work, and I've started modifying the fin/dorsal fillet, giving them a bit more area. The port side is done, now to do the starboard side.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8a037624-dd2a-4783-b1f0-ef70cde027af.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8f4bb6b3-b4bb-4557-9d5c-0ab557352c15.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8d2162bb-d66e-409d-b009-16f13aa5abb5.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 11, 2019, 12:53:48 pm
I'm actually thinking it will be like a Grumman F8F's
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: rickshaw on November 14, 2019, 03:34:19 am
Do the undercarriage like the Navy F4 Phantoms nose gear.

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1b25f3bb7fe89642fe9449190ce767dd.webp)

At least you didn't suggest he do it like the Royal Navy's F-4K nosegear:

(https://www.scalehobbyist.com/images/products/AIR/AIR00006016/AIR00006016_9_d.jpg)
Title: Re: North American A-(to be announced)
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 14, 2019, 05:08:16 am
Do the undercarriage like the Navy F4 Phantoms nose gear.

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1b25f3bb7fe89642fe9449190ce767dd.webp)

At least you didn't suggest he do it like the Royal Navy's F-4K nosegear:

(https://www.scalehobbyist.com/images/products/AIR/AIR00006016/AIR00006016_9_d.jpg)


That's a sort of 'Crocodile Dundee' confrontation.

'Call that a nose gear extension, THAT'S a nose gear extension!'  ;D ;D ;) ;)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Snowtrooper on November 14, 2019, 05:46:12 am
Hmmm. Never realized that even US Navy Phantoms used the bridle instead of the tow bar to connect to the catapult shuttle, I thought that the Crusader was last such plane. :unsure: The more you learn.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 14, 2019, 06:31:30 am
I don't think a hydraulic extending system is the way to go, the P-47 originally had it for it's main u/c legs, but with too many problems it was revised as a mechanical system.

My thinking is it will go along these lines.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/31b432ef-e3e2-4c2f-8e2e-ce10de0bcc17.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj6xCC3vues
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 20, 2019, 01:03:22 pm
Here's what I've done with the undercarriage, I've extended the legs to a scale foot. I changed what wheels it will have to something a bit more robust, I had to make a disc for the brakes

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/347f76eb-df0b-4227-8234-54739bf8b177.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/eef348b1-39ea-4be7-bdba-9ee6cbd1a270.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 20, 2019, 01:07:57 pm
And the majority of the model is glued together, except the new cowlings, I'll glue those on last when I have all the pylons glued on.

Here I'm starting to place those pylons (snaffled from a Skyraider), there will be fourteen of them, six each under the outer wings and two under the center wing.

The large underwing pylons will have interchangeable loads, here I'm trying out extra fuel tanks, the backstory will explain these are for ferry flights.  The rest of the pylons will be the smaller ones you find on the Skyraider.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/98f3957f-4e35-49af-96df-66b961e2ac4a.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/1877a442-10fc-461b-a427-cbdb9096effb.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/a0f7e00b-f8d4-4b50-a25c-cdde9f2dc222.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: rickshaw on November 20, 2019, 05:44:13 pm
Looking good there, mate.  Must be a real whirlwind with those contraprops!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 21, 2019, 06:14:54 am
Looking good sir  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 21, 2019, 06:45:56 am
Looking good sir  :thumbsup:

Looking good there, mate.  Must be a real whirlwind with those contraprops!   :thumbsup:

Thanks Chris, Brian.

The effect from the props is one of the reasons of increasing all the tail surfaces area, a couple of other reasons would be the increased weight and length of the engine/prop and to some effect caused by the wing tip tanks. I had read some notes in an article about other real aircraft which are to those effect, so I thought I'd include it here   ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 22, 2019, 06:26:59 am
I must admit my brain is struggling with the concept of twin contra-props. For no reason whatsoever it keeps ruminating on the question "does each sides pair rotate in the opposite direction to the other sides ?". There's no reason why they should, but my brain just keeps ruminating on it  :-X
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 22, 2019, 06:35:14 am
Well having twin contra-props on an aircraft wasn't a novelty, the original spec for the DH Hornet was to have them as an option, and then there was the Short Sturgeon which did have them. Of course the Shackleton had four of them --   ;)

Reading about the DH Hornet, it apparently was quite an evil plane to land when trying it on one engine, I think the contra-prop version would have made it easier. That and maybe a much bigger fin ---

In the backstory, all will be revealed though   ;)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 22, 2019, 06:46:34 am
 ;D  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 22, 2019, 07:56:37 am
I've got all the pylons on now, you can see in the top pic where I've extended the wheel bays out into the outer wings, so that the F8F styled undercarriage can fold away.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/12a31dd8-6d0a-4cc7-a479-5b26498291fd.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/9edb093b-865d-4649-ad36-6f8c1bad3d33.JPG)

And these are the load-out it will be modelled with (although I'll interchange the load on the big pylon for some pics)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/22d5893c-08a1-4192-9ac1-a01073710909.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2019, 09:04:43 am
ALL the pylons!  :o

You're not kidding Robert, that'll be some loadout! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 22, 2019, 10:30:36 am
Well there is some precedent Kit, while researching F-82 a while ago I came across a lot of pics on the internet showing the ground attack variants that were proposed. Plus there's the Piper Enforcer ---

The two bombs under the center section look a lot bigger than a 1000lber too --

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/581999f1-7046-404b-afe4-d9624dd690da.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/0fa2df77-a63a-4156-a7d4-c603575db1c9.jpg)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/cd0a34bd-4eca-469d-b269-765f4e72acbb.jpg)

Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 22, 2019, 12:52:46 pm
Maybe a pair of 2,000 lb bombs?

(http://www.303rdbg.com/pp-2000bomb.jpg)

(http://coffeespoons.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bombDiagram.png)

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-29684827f920d82d23b6cd9f8b6efaff-c)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 22, 2019, 02:03:42 pm
Maybe a pair of 2,000 lb bombs?

That's what I was thinking Jon, now I've got another ordnance option, only using the Mk.84 ----  ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 23, 2019, 02:28:45 am
That top photo is fascinating mate and I wasn't aware of the 2,000 lb bomb so thanks Jon. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 23, 2019, 08:38:44 am
A bit more progress, I've now glued the cowlings on, I had to install the props though because I used the same method to hold them in place as you find on the Frog Shackleton.

Here you can see after I had drilled the prop shaft hole right through the cowling, I counter bored it with a larger drill bit. I had to make a new collar to retain the prop shaft out of some large diameter sprue, which I made to have a friction fit instead of trying to glue it to the prop shaft.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/cdd7f7ac-5ea4-438c-9a66-2eb895751a15.JPG)

And here it is with the cowlings on, also on it's wheels for the first time too ---

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c2ace42c-dd1b-431a-b7f9-5feb1b1945ed.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c1be8966-5057-4b5c-a4da-6c3891dbe75e.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/17d7c922-198e-4952-a737-2401471ec585.JPG)

Now it's off to the paint shop --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 23, 2019, 09:06:26 am
That's looking VERY mean and menacing Robert.

But a great build nonetheless.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 23, 2019, 09:14:01 am
Thanks Kit  ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 23, 2019, 09:46:49 am
Some comparison pics with the F-82 I built quite a lot of years ago. The lengthened u/c legs raises the nose up not too ridiculously I think.

The F-82 prop diameter measures out at 10'-9", while my contra-prop's diameter is 12'-0"

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/6adbd907-51b4-452f-b4e8-766659e99cb4.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e8ac88aa-8003-4b2c-bfc8-284ea8717772.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/1feced4c-1ac5-4581-8f2a-0a16f9cfa624.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: McColm on November 23, 2019, 11:15:59 am
Great work  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 23, 2019, 12:27:58 pm
That top photo is fascinating mate and I wasn't aware of the 2,000 lb bomb so thanks Jon. :thumbsup:
The 2,000 lb was the largest of the standard G.P. (General Purpose) bombs, the B-17G being able to
carry two plus two 1,000 lb in overload condition internally, the B-17Fs and Gs with the external racks
could carry larger bombs. Max bomb load on a B-17G was 12,800 lbs, up to 10,000 lbs internally, the
limitation being bomb bay dimensions rather than aircraft performance.

The B-24 could carry up to four of the 2,000 lb.

More than you probably want to know about WWII US bombs here:
http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/tm91980bombsforaircraft1944.pdf
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 23, 2019, 01:07:48 pm

More than you probably want to know about WWII US bombs here:
http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/tm91980bombsforaircraft1944.pdf


Good heavens, 271 pages!  :o

Just slightly comprehensive, to say the least!
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 24, 2019, 06:51:14 am
The lengthened u/c legs raises the nose up not too ridiculously I think.


Certainly not mate  :thumbsup:

Cheers for the bomb load info Jon
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 24, 2019, 08:02:34 am

Telescoping brass tubing is one of the ways I like to put props on.

Yeah, I've done it that way too, but as the props I used already had shafts, I wasn't going to make more work for myself  ;D  (the plan here is to actually finish a GB for once)

Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 28, 2019, 01:37:49 pm
After some clean up, I got the primer on. But I see that I still need to tidy some areas though.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/a348c2b9-da02-4b71-b10f-62038fd76e51.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/7f26fd54-b67e-4d34-a786-37c69613b4fe.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on November 28, 2019, 02:36:16 pm
Great stuff Robert ! Nice to see this one back on the burner. She looks mean already, and once bombed up ? Look out !

 :cheers:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 28, 2019, 05:01:36 pm
I'm fully on board now, this looks awesome!  :wacko:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Old Wombat on November 28, 2019, 09:17:14 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Dizzyfugu on November 29, 2019, 12:27:12 am
Very nice, looks purposeful!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 29, 2019, 06:47:14 am
Thanks guys --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 29, 2019, 11:11:08 am
Now with a bit of colour, the first coat though, still got some details to do. The undersides will be satin black. I'm doing this like one of the Italeri Douglas B-26K options.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8c7996eb-484f-4c7c-9f93-fe8bcac4c0f7.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/0a4856f9-0dfe-49fd-b9ce-ecb3dafd88b0.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/61ca9d04-013d-4111-b1cd-538df9755ceb.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 29, 2019, 12:31:54 pm
Ooooooooh, NOW you're cooking Robert!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 29, 2019, 12:51:41 pm
Cheers Kit ---

Not sure what to paint the spinners though, as it's a clandestine op' bird, nothing garish. I'm leaning towards them being the dark green, maybe the satin black, haven't made my mind up.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 29, 2019, 01:26:37 pm
Definitely satin black, it'd need some sort of contrast so the ramp crew don't walk into it.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on November 29, 2019, 01:31:52 pm
Mmmmm.....nice.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: philp on November 29, 2019, 01:39:06 pm
Great idea and looking good so far.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on November 29, 2019, 02:05:42 pm
PA-48 style using the dark green on the port propeller, and continuing
the light green on the stbd.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Piper_PA48_Enforcer_USAF.jpg/1200px-Piper_PA48_Enforcer_USAF.jpg)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 29, 2019, 02:38:01 pm
Good ideas there Kit, Jon --- it was looking at photos of that PA-48 a while ago that got me thinking dark green.  I think because the blades will be satin black, I'll go with the two greens idea for the spinners, I'll modify the camo on the port cowling to have a bit of green nearer the spinner too.

Thanks too Todd, Philp
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 29, 2019, 04:04:45 pm
You could try day-glo pink spinners, NO danger of the ramp crew knocking their heads on them then.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Rick Lowe on November 29, 2019, 08:28:35 pm
Ah, now I see the photos! And worth the wait, too.  :thumbsup:

Very nice work there, Robert.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Old Wombat on November 29, 2019, 10:58:04 pm
Looking very good, Robert! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on November 30, 2019, 01:55:43 am
Oh my that is looking good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 30, 2019, 06:12:45 am
Thanks Rick, Guy, Chris -----

The greens on the spinners work good too , thanks Jon. I did add a bit of dark green to the front of the port cowling so it didn't have a hard edge between the colours.

I've temporarily added a couple of alternative stores to the large pylons, which are BLU-118 I think.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/9cffe41a-4354-479e-b8f9-6ddd5db0d06f.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/25f91d4a-c497-4e78-9463-f65824135fbe.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on November 30, 2019, 06:37:48 am
Oh! and last night I got an idea for a name for it, nothing fancy though --- It will be called a North American AF-82/A-11 Super Twin   ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Old Wombat on November 30, 2019, 04:19:46 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on November 30, 2019, 05:31:31 pm
Yeah Buddy!   And the name is perfect.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: zenrat on December 01, 2019, 01:49:28 am
Turboprop version would be a Twinforcer...

Very good job.  Looks great.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 01, 2019, 03:54:18 am

Turboprop version would be a Twinforcer...


Why does that have me in hoots of laughter?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 01, 2019, 06:13:48 am
Thanks everyone ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on December 01, 2019, 10:48:31 am
You're welcome Robert.  :thumbsup:

Looks really good.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on December 02, 2019, 04:27:57 am
Looking fab ! The green on the spinners for sure looks the part. The name sounds good as well. When we were kids, we went to a bar in montreal, fashioned out ofan old rink, called Super Neuf. 15 bucks to get in, then 99 cent draft and well drinks all night !

 :o
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 11, 2019, 10:51:47 am
Not forgotten this --  ;D

Painting is almost all done, just working on some finer points. I've got five F-82 kits (I thought I had six, but if I do have a sixth one, I can't find it) and all but two (the Monogram kits), have got different decal sheets. Only the Revell kit has a comprehensive sheet which has stencils etc  on it. So I made a copy of it because the decals I took from the Italeri B-26K kit for a scheme like the one I'm doing, are very minimal, a couple of fin markings and a bit of nose art. The stencils will make it look a little busier.  The schemes for the B-26K don't have any national insignia markings either, so mine won't either.

Next photos will be when I've finish it ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on December 11, 2019, 05:13:45 pm
Sweet ! We should have a GB here where we finish our oldest half start  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: rickshaw on December 11, 2019, 09:10:22 pm
It reminds me of the Twin-Turbo-Enforcer I built a long time ago: (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=35365.0)

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5307/1001877p.jpg)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on December 12, 2019, 03:45:36 am

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5307/1001877p.jpg)


I DO like that Brian, the longer nose suits the -82 very well.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 12, 2019, 07:31:38 am
Sweet ! We should have a GB here where we finish our oldest half start  :thumbsup:

Well this is going quite quickly considering my history doing GB's  ;)   and I've still got a month and a half to finish it   ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 12, 2019, 07:35:39 am

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5307/1001877p.jpg)

Always liked that one Brian. Ever since I built my Rolls Royce Mustangs and researched the matter (Mk.X and the PVF's) I've had the thought that the F-82 was ripe to have an engine upgrade, the size of it really helps with that line of thinking and 'bigger & better' engines seems to suit it well.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: rickshaw on December 12, 2019, 04:44:10 pm
The longer nose does suit it well.  It makes it look a great longer and leaner and hungrier...   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 14, 2019, 09:12:19 am
Changed my mind, here's some updated photos after the painting got done.

Top colours are Humbrol 116,117 & 118

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/d2a679fe-2326-48e2-aef4-a80c8aa489b1.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/43aaeb0a-da49-4935-ab75-937fad31ec67.JPG)

Bottom colour is Humbrol 85

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/60dc1ea9-65dc-4e29-9761-5996e6b04d3e.JPG)

I used ModelMaster Classic White for the u/c and wheel bays, Burnt Metal for the exhaust shrouds, Gun Metal for the gun barrels.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/dac37993-14d7-4575-84b4-d023382fc810.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/62813770-1b2e-4c65-bbfd-8818171c514c.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/6c484b6c-a3bc-424d-b95f-51b20401ecc9.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/fe056dc1-dd0b-49ef-a1dd-16dfb678f8ca.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/647aeba2-3c11-44f4-814b-21a6f7fd7c04.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/5dbdf322-5d9d-48e0-95e5-919188bb86cf.JPG)










Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on December 14, 2019, 10:07:13 am
Love the scallop transition. Paint job is glorious!
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: jalles on December 14, 2019, 11:25:02 am
Dang that thing is beautiful, well in a brutal kind of way :wub: The paint job is awesome  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: JayBee on December 14, 2019, 11:31:55 am
Looking realy sweet, it just needs a couple of Sharkmouths !  :wacko:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 14, 2019, 01:07:15 pm
Thanks Brad, Jason, Jim ---

hmm, sharkmouths --- I'll have to think on that, but IIRC, I don't have any kit with a sharkmouth to swipe a decal from, let alone two ----

At the moment, these decals are what I'm going to use, they come from the Italeri B-26K kit. The serial numbers just need to be rearranged from 64 to 46 and move a 4 and a 6 around in the other part. Then this will end up as a real F-82 serial number.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/36a310e2-62d5-442b-96ab-37ee10cb5612.JPG)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on December 14, 2019, 01:14:39 pm
Oh for sure that looks great Robert !
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 14, 2019, 01:37:55 pm
Thanks Todd --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on December 14, 2019, 02:58:44 pm
Should stick the broad on top of the inter wing like she sunbathing.  ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 14, 2019, 03:45:09 pm
That might be a good idea Brad, where I was thinking of placing it was on the side of the cowling but it looks to be a bit too large. I'll play around with it before I dunk it in water.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on December 15, 2019, 01:31:33 am
Certainly looks the part mate  :thumbsup:

Should stick the broad on top of the inter wing like she sunbathing.  ;D

Now if you put her on the underside she'd distract the AAA gunners as you were coming in to dump your load  ;) Mind you didn't the North Vietnamese use a lot of women in these roles ?
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 16, 2019, 08:26:05 am
Thanks Chris --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 26, 2019, 03:54:37 pm
Maybe a pair of 2,000 lb bombs?
(http://www.303rdbg.com/pp-2000bomb.jpg)

I've found these big bombs are fairly well represented in 1/72 but first some references

The resin bomb on the left is from the Airwaves Hawker Typhoon 1000lb bomb set. The olive drab painted one on the right is found in Airfix's Sabre Mk.4 box and it's very close to the same size.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/1e137af0-684b-4848-963f-55ad3e0afe40.JPG)

These next photos show four bombs I have similar to the poster Jon posted.

The small one on the left is a 250lb bomb found in the Revell P-51B box, the next one to the right is a 500lb bomb which is in the Hasegawa B-47 box, the next one is the Sabre bomb of 1000lb, and the last one, the big one is found in Airfix's Skyraider box, and as it's twice as big as the 1000lb bomb, can only be a 2000lb bomb.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8a3430d5-2d56-4153-b997-1c753cadb03c.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/338d3e4a-4735-4c76-ba6e-24164f83c4eb.JPG)

Here's what those big bombs look like of the Super Twin

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/9efe4eb3-8316-4f91-9814-c2440a6c06ef.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e7421768-f895-4434-ad47-fe7c55cbb68b.JPG)

 
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Rick Lowe on December 26, 2019, 06:04:21 pm
Yup, that works.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on December 26, 2019, 08:52:53 pm
Damn straight it does.  :mellow:



Quote
(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/338d3e4a-4735-4c76-ba6e-24164f83c4eb.JPG)


"Khajiit has wares...."
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on December 27, 2019, 06:01:30 am
Interesting shot with the figure for scale mate  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 27, 2019, 06:11:11 am
Cheers guys   :thumbsup:

Looking at that photo Jon posted of the guy sitting on the bomb, and judging where his leg is, the diameter of the bomb looks like it's the length of his knee to the bottom of his foot. The pic of the 1/72 bombs with the figure has sort of the same result.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Dizzyfugu on December 27, 2019, 07:23:50 am
That's looking very good!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 27, 2019, 09:20:18 am
Thanks Dizzy --

Some sharp eyed member might have noticed I re-arranged the pylons   ;)  This came about while researching colours of the FFAR's, especially the bit sticking out the front. I read that a fully loaded LAU-10 weighed 680lb, 180lb heavier than the Mk-82 bombs I was going to put on the four inner pylons. So I switched the heavy duty pylon and the small pylon I had put near the fuselage on the outer wing around, putting the smaller one with the bunch of other small ones (they're spaced exactly like what's on the Skyraider), the heavy duty pylon is now spaced the same distance from the fuselage as the nearest one to that fuselage under the center wing. These two pylons also got switched from being a couple of small pylons to a couple of the more heavy duty pylons.  (note: all the pylons come from the Skyraider kit)

So now the LAU-10's will be mounted on the first two small pylon under the outer wings that are nearest the fuselage, then two Mk-82 bombs then the most outer small pylon will get either a SUU-14a dispenser or an ELQ-87 ECM pod, not decided which will go under which wing yet  ;D

The two heavy duty pylons under the outer wings will have the drop tanks you see in the pics just above, the two heavy duty pylons under the center wing, I'm trying not to break the little attachment pins (like I did on the outer pylons) so I can pose the model for photos with different load outs on them.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on December 28, 2019, 01:20:20 pm
I had remembered that there was another kit which has these big 2000lbers too, in the Airfix P-61 Black Widow box.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 03, 2020, 07:29:39 am
I'm decaling at the moment, my plan was to use a bunch of stencils that come in one of the F-82 kits to busy up the look a bit. I've got half of them on but I have to admit, if there was ever a totally pointless plan this would be it --- you can hardly tell they're on  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 03, 2020, 08:11:24 pm
Hopefully they come through in photography even if only as "blips" on the finish. I was feeling the same way in the midst of decalling my F-15N but when all was said & done I was glad I took the time.

In other words, don't be dismayed; stick with it!  <_<
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: NARSES2 on January 04, 2020, 02:21:25 am
But you'll know they are there mate  ;) ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 04, 2020, 06:54:07 am
Cheers guys ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 15, 2020, 02:14:23 pm
Almost done ---- here's some pics of it kitted out for a ferry flight.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/f31b4b53-fa2e-4740-a55e-15dc5b1e09ff.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e250a4fc-451c-426f-aa0f-12efedbf63b7.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/0698b9df-8c59-41c2-8a49-e285d491afbb.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/e50a4925-a92d-40c1-820e-8c1ee663124c.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/2eb3b8bc-a461-43a4-b606-525f1a72f5c3.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/2e2f17f1-891b-4de1-a589-276af31beabb.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/35f90edc-1118-4036-80eb-f8b928057c4f.JPG)

After a few trial fit-ups, I found the pin-up nose art fitted here quite well, it looks like the figure is sitting on the front edge of the wing and leaning back at the same time.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/9ad0752e-197a-410b-9af4-92aad75cd893.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c4a87782-84aa-4138-b6b9-bd66fde8913a.JPG)

And the pilot of this aircraft is even claiming a couple of Migs   ;D

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/2a70b2ed-a35b-41b4-ae11-955a6f0910cc.JPG)

The pics reveal you can actually see the stencils, unfortunately, you can also see the decal surround too ---  :banghead:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 15, 2020, 04:32:44 pm
Blimey, it's carrying more fuel OUTSIDE the airframe than inside it!  :o

Looks terrific though.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Captain Canada on January 15, 2020, 04:58:16 pm
Oooh she's defo looking the business now ! Nice work Robert !
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: major on January 15, 2020, 05:15:10 pm

Oooowwerr!!!!! :wub: Nice! :thumbsup:

I'm patiently waiting on the postman! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: Old Wombat on January 15, 2020, 05:41:22 pm
For some reason I'm only getting broken image link symbols. :(

I'll try late & see what happens.

EDIT: Of course, when I post the previous comment the images appear! :banghead:

Very nice! :thumbsup:

She should make a fair distance with all that fuel, Hawaii to Guam, perhaps? ;)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 15, 2020, 08:44:16 pm
More fuel; more COOL.    Or Maybe "CYOOL"   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 16, 2020, 06:39:23 am
Cheers guys ---

The story is that after they were refurbished at the NAA plant in California, they flew to Vietnam with stop-overs at Hawaii and Guam. Drop tanks were in demand by all other aircraft in Vietnam so any extra tanks available were attached as the pylon shackles were capable of carrying anything in the US inventory, and the aircraft sent on their way (tanks full of course). The extra tanks (under the center wing) were then transferred to which ever unit needed them once in theater.

These two extra tanks though have marginal clearance at the rear end, maybe about 8 or 9 inches. I'll see if I can get a photo of it but right now I'm gluing on the ordnance under the outer wings.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 16, 2020, 06:44:35 am
Another thing I have to sort out, the glossy appearance ---- I've used Humbrol satin-clear on it, it turned out more glossy than the gloss -clear  :banghead: :banghead:  I wasn't planning on giving it any other coats of anything but it might need another try ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 16, 2020, 07:01:51 am
Naplam on those hardpoint too.

The latest load-out I'm working on at the moment has a couple of those big ones you find in the Hasegawa weapons sets.  I was trying to make the four heavy duty pylons so I could switch alternate loads on them,  unfortunately I broke one of the locating pins on each outer pylon so the load on those had to be glued on. The pylons under the center wing will still be able to be switched around (until those pins get broken off that is)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11
Post by: kitnut617 on January 18, 2020, 10:35:25 am
Another thing I have to sort out, the glossy appearance ---- I've used Humbrol satin-clear on it, it turned out more glossy than the gloss -clear  :banghead: :banghead:  I wasn't planning on giving it any other coats of anything but it might need another try ---

Well I've sorted this problem out, I gave the tinlet a good mixing and then a shaking every hour or so afterwards. Then I tried a small area to see what the result would be. Well it was the same glossy finish  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I had to resort to mixing in some clear-flat/matt, the tinlet was down at around the 3/4 full mark of the satin so I topped it up with the flat and then thoroughly mixed it again.  RESULT !!!!! now the finish looks right ----  photos will be taken on Monday as I've finished the model, all the load out is on, and all the alternative ordnance painted up for the photo shoot ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 20, 2020, 11:07:33 am
Some practice shots, they've been done outside but it's not very sunny at the moment. Just wanted to see how they would turn out.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/2e6560e4-1f66-4517-b7db-8f89c87bc9ed.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/5a3eaa2e-7f60-449f-8de1-7d5319b3302c.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/540bed21-b5b7-427b-8b21-2839c7dd6a44.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/1060788e-9fde-481e-9691-83ebc8a6518f.JPG)

Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: Old Wombat on January 20, 2020, 04:50:36 pm
Very good! :thumbsup:

Cloudy days may reduce the light but they diffuse it, too, so you don't get excessive contrast between light & shadow. ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 21, 2020, 06:16:27 am
Thanks Guy.

Thanks for the photography tip too, I'll keep that in mind  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 21, 2020, 02:09:12 pm
Brilliant, mate!!!! 
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 21, 2020, 05:12:12 pm
Thanks Brad
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: Dizzyfugu on January 21, 2020, 11:40:36 pm
That's looking very good.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 22, 2020, 07:33:22 am
Thanks Dizzy
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 22, 2020, 08:46:26 am
Damnit, I keep waiting on Glamour Shotz(R) to appear.  :banghead: ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: TomZ on January 22, 2020, 08:47:31 am
This looks great!

TomZ
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 22, 2020, 09:05:15 am
Yes, it's looking REALLY good now the satin varnish has gone on right. Great job Robert.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 22, 2020, 09:57:34 am
Thanks very much Kit, Tom.

Easy Brad, easy now  ----  ;D   they're coming, I'm just waiting for the right time to take the pics. Still got to work on my backstory too, it's a little long-winded at the moment and I'm trying to slim it down a bit.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 22, 2020, 11:34:59 am
I hear ya, hoss.  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: Captain Canada on January 22, 2020, 11:52:03 am
So good ! That thing looks awesome Robert. Great job all around.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished
Post by: kitnut617 on January 22, 2020, 11:54:41 am
Cheers Todd  ---

I thought I'd use my other camera for the money shots, well, erm, didn't work out so well  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: It's nice a sunny outside, but all the photos have turned out really dark, and I use a flash too   :-\ :-\ :-\  as you might guess, I'm not a professional photographer ----
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 23, 2020, 01:17:15 pm
Here's the finished pics. And in no particular order because in the picture hosting site I use, there's no chronicle order option.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/8acf1918-099a-42a5-ab37-441a1bc9f0fc.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/02918659-b4a5-47fb-a7a6-0557f08b6949.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/da7e6422-8f57-4e30-912d-5b70328035e0.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/47fd82ad-cefd-4675-92ea-6535a5b0c79f.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/b9c27f4e-5b46-4d44-a377-bc1f8c1c1f57.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c521dcb1-2c7b-49be-a6b4-5dd6f6b081a5.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/bdb6f82c-7410-494d-ac3d-4013c2df2de1.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/f42ff61a-a8e3-4365-b500-22f65cbd5de8.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/fb426e87-1f41-40f4-b4e4-d9d84b9f28c6.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/c122c3e8-b235-4389-805c-55689a6b62ef.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/48564e17-b920-4305-a797-c27209aab1b5.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/f6c9e525-f905-4090-9154-94be241807af.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/adb050b9-5ff9-46d0-8999-f126bdebd55a.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/6ab958f1-fa42-4953-a2a8-d7c627aa2410.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/0a2979b9-99e5-421e-88b0-452a63465d1f.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/bdb4092d-75bf-4b41-9d4c-463fa82bef60.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/3cfdaa73-7791-480d-a614-2b8e1ef70d63.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/37eded94-5420-4fb5-85f8-5e23068a821a.JPG)








Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 23, 2020, 02:37:13 pm


Ahhhhhh that hits the spot. Magnificent!!  She looks right on target... ready swoop down on the trail and raise hell.  :wacko: :wacko:


EDIT: Wee bit of "thread clean up" and spelling error.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: Rick Lowe on January 24, 2020, 02:06:43 am
I like the fixed Gatling pod idea - makes for a steadier stream on target... though with a minigun, that's a relative term...
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: zenrat on January 24, 2020, 02:32:39 am
Very good.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: NARSES2 on January 24, 2020, 06:37:38 am
That's come out really well mate  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 24, 2020, 07:43:27 am
Thanks guys ---

In the backstory, the idea with the fixed armament is the USAF wanted more punch than what the six .5's could deliver. It was one of the gripes F-86 pilots had in Korea and why the USN switched to four M39 20mm cannon on their Furys (eventually the USAF followed suit). So NAA installed four M39's in the AF-82 instead of the M3 .5's. Propeller clearance with the line of fire wasn't a problem with the smaller diameter props used on AF-86's. However, on the A-11, it was recommended that the prop diameter shouldn't be any smaller than 12 feet when using the more powerful version of the Griffon engine that the CIA wanted, which created a couple of problems, prop clearance not just for the line of fire (the cannon had to be reduced by two) but with prop tip to ground clearance (my build covers what solution I came up with for that). The CIA still wanted the hitting power of the four cannon though and after it was explained that only two could work, they came back with installing the M61.

Fun Fact notes:
The M3 .5" had a firing rate of 1200 rounds/p/m (the F-82 had six of them), the .5" minigun would have had less punch as it fired at 6000 rounds/p/m (6x1200=7200). The M39 revolver cannon had a firing rate of 1500 rounds/p/m so switching them to the M61 wouldn't have been any different, as it had a firing rate of 6000 rounds/p/m (4x1500=6000)
The M61 was in-service with the USAF before they got involved in Vietnam, F-104's and 105's had them although not with much ammunition, 450 rounds for the F-104 and 600+ for the F-105. Not a lot of firing time, 4.5 seconds worth for the F-104 and nearly 7 seconds for the F-105. My story is the AF-82 had 400 rounds per M39, while the A-11 had 1800 rounds Edit: I've just realized that this is only 200 rounds more than what the M39's had, and as the whole of the center wing between the spars and the fuselage sides became the ammo storage area, I'd say as much as 2400 rounds could be stored.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 30, 2020, 10:58:28 am
So there's just one more thing to do ----

The story.

So this is about the F-82's which were remanufactured for the ground attack role for use in Vietnam.
The F-82's had been retired after the Korean war and moved to storage yards or boneyards where the thought was to resell then to small countries needing a more modern air force. However they languished there as not a lot of interest was shown and then they got forgotten about.

But with USA’s involvement in Vietnam ramping up, the USAF realized they would need some aircraft to use in the Close Air Support role. They had seen that the USN were using Douglas Skyraiders very effectively so put together a list of similar aircraft they could get hold of relatively quickly because what Skyraiders there were, weren’t available to them. Scavenging the storage areas they discovered numerous old aircraft which could probably do the job, T-28 Trojans, Douglas Invaders and the NAA F-82's among them. It was decided then to re-activate as many of the aircraft that could be made airworthy.
 
The USAF was particularly interested in using the F-82 because of its previous history, it being designed almost from the start to have a ground attack capability, and the requirement was it had to be on par with the Skyraider or better.  The biggest problem they had was finding engines, numerous airframes had had them removed, an investigation as to why revealed the majority of them were sold off to various racing disciplines who wanted big powerful V-12 engines which were then highly modified, and not suitable for re-use in their intended role.  The use of the F-82's might have ended right there but it was discovered they could have a supply source for an equivalent engine from Rolls Royce. After some enquiries they found that the RR Griffon engine was still in production for the RAF, although it was for the Avro Shackletons that were soldiering on in their maritime/AEW roles. Just as fortunately, it was discovered that RR even had plans to re-engine the RAF's P-82's they were supplied with in the closing stages of WWII because of the then Air Ministry's requirement of standardizing aircraft on three engine types, the Griffon, Sabre and Centaurus. The discovery of these documents and drawing greatly helped in progressing the plan to re-activate the F-82's in their new role.
With the supply of engines secured (at first, engines were taken from the Shackleton engine pool), North American was then brought into the picture, where they sent a team of technicians to evaluate all the F-82 airframes found in the storage areas. They found that although they looked really tatty, most were in a fairly good condition, nothing that some refurbishment wouldn't go amiss.

Another USAF requirement was to standardize the fix armament with what was in service at the time, they wanted the six M3 .5’s replaced by four M39 20mm revolver cannons. NAA had experience with this cannon already, being used in their late F-86’s, most of their FJ Furys and more lately, the F-100 Super Sabre.

The switch over was a fairly easy conversion and was incorporated while the wing was re-manufactured with strengthened wing spars to support the multitude of pylons for the stores to hang from. Other parts of the airframe were strengthen, and even had some armour added around vital parts. The first F-82 to be re-flown was one which was found to be in really good condition so was used as a test bed for the Griffon installation, the contra-rotating propeller coming straight off a Shackleton. Prop tip to ground clearance was very minimal and the test pilot had to be very careful not to over rotate when taking off and landing. While these tests were ongoing, RR had arranged for two pairs of contra-props to have the blades shortened and also to revise the PSRU’s gear ratios to suit them. The new props were install as soon as NAA got them and further testing was completed successfully. The second F-82 to fly, now re-designated as an AF-82, was one that had been refurbished with the re-manufactured wing plus the additional armour installed and also had the revised engine with the smaller diameter props. This was used in testing the aircraft capabilities of carrying various ordnance and gun firing trials. With this testing completed satisfactorily, refurbishing the remaining airframes progressed rapidly.

As each aircraft was completed, and flight tested, they were flown out to Vietnam in batches directly from California, via Hawaii then Guam, then to airfields either in Vietnam or Thailand, the AF-82’s making use of the very long range capability they had. The aircraft’s wing had been modified to have wing tip tanks, but also the four heavy duty pylons it was equipped with were also plumbed for drop tanks. They were very quickly put to good use once the squadrons in the Vietnam theatre received them, and they became a very welcome sight for the ground troops. The operational success of the aircraft was partly due to the USAF still having a large community of pilots who had had previous experience with the F-82, and many of them jumped at the chance to fly the aircraft again.

It wasn’t long before the capabilities of the aircraft garnered attention from another group operating in Vietnam, some who had been there even before the US involvement intensified. This was the CIA contingent. A couple of their high commanding officers manage to cadge operational rides so they could personally access the aircraft and then made very favorable reports back to the higher command in the USA. The CIA’s equipment acquisition department was instructed to approach NAA management to enquire about the possible purchase of the AF-82 for themselves and a series of meetings followed rapidly. Very early in these meetings, NAA informed the CIA there was the question of available airframes, in that the USAF had commandeered most of them and that what was left were airframes the USAF didn’t want to spend money on, these needing a lot more work on them to get them airworthy.

But money didn’t seem to be the issue for the CIA, what they wanted was aircraft for themselves. Which led to the remaining airframes getting refurbished. However, because of the nature of their operations where their targets had to be more precisely attacked, the CIA specified certain equipment installed, including AN/APG-53A Air to Air/Air to Ground targeting radar with its associated ground avoidance and weather radars, a AN/ARN-6 Radio Compass plus a special CIA radio for their operative who was to fly on all missions (apart from the pilot). They also required an ELQ-87 ECM pod and a SUU-14a dispenser.  All the pylons be rated for heavier ordnance than what the AF-82 pylons were capable of, and also able to carry anything in the US Forces inventory was another requirement. The CIA then informed NAA that from now on, their AF-82’s would be designated A-11.

So NAA then set about modifying one of the remaining F-82 airframes to meet the new standard. With the AN/APG-53A radar and its associated radars installed in the front ends of the wing tip tanks and all the other extra equipment and expected heavier carriage of ordnance came at a performance price though, and to maintain that performance NAA figured a more powerful engine would be needed. NAA once again approached RR to see what was available to which RR said they could bump up the power of the Griffon 57’s fairly easily, to the tune of 3 to 4 hundred more hp. RR said though, they wouldn’t recommend using the smaller diameter propeller, that if NAA could use the original 12’-6” diameter one it would be better, but then said no smaller than 12’-0” diameter.  This created a couple of problems, not just prop clearance for the line of fire of the four cannon but with the same prop tip to ground clearance found earlier too. NAA’s solution for the cannon was to reduce the number to two, but during a meeting, the CIA said they still wanted the hitting power of the four cannon and it was explained that only two would have the line of fire clearance with the prop blade tips. A few days later the CIA came back with a suggestion, if installing the M61 rotary cannon would work, they would use that and send one over for a trial installation asap.

The NAA designers thought this would be the right direction to go in, and once an example arrived, found that it couldn’t be mounted in the wing like the four M39’s. It was decided to mount the gun directly under the wing with the main mounting bracket attaching to the bottom of the front wing spar plus some additional bracketry to support the mid-barrel bearing and the feed mechanism behind the breach block. The mounting and gun then had a purpose built structural fairing built around it. This arrangement then allowed for more ammunition to be stored inside the wing where the former cannon were positioned.

While this was going on, other designers were working on the prop tip to ground problem, which was obviously down to making the u/c leg longer. But the position of the M61 mounted under the wing in the center, nullified any extension to the wheel bay in that direction. In the end, the solution was fairly simple, they borrowed an idea that Grumman had used on their F8F Bearcat, this involved the upper u/c leg folding itself in half and all that was needed to be done was to extend the u/c bay where the leg itself retracted into, out a short way into the front of the outer wing. The u/c leg then had to be revise to have a robust casting attached to the top of the leg, which was then attached to a link casting which has hinge pins top and bottom, the leg being attached to the bottom hinge pin. The top hinge pin was then attached to the airframe in almost the same position as the original u/c hinge point, but a bit higher to allow for the folding mechanism to retract into the extended wheel bay. The rest of the u/c leg and wheel then retracted into the unchanged wheel bay.

With the problems now solved, production quickly got underway and within a few months, the aircraft were ready for delivery, having passed all the trials and testing relatively without any further problems. Once the CIA got hold of them though, not much is known of what happened during the war, the aircraft were seen landing and taking off from various airfields in Vietnam and Thailand, usually disappearing into a fenced off compound/hanger and what they did was cloaked in a bit of a mystery. They were present for most of the war and even after the US withdrawal from Vietnam, they carried on in the area with another service. That’s because all of the remaining AF-82’s and A-11’s were “gifted” to the Royal Thai Air Force as a reward for the use of their airfields.  But that's another story for another time -----


Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2020, 11:07:27 am

 Just as fortunately, it was discovered that RR even had plans to re-engine the RAF's P-82's they were supplied with in the closing stages of WWII because of the then Air Ministry's requirement of standardizing aircraft on three engine types, the Griffon, Sabre and Centaurus.


That's a great backstory Robert, but I specially like that bit.  :thumbsup:

Bags of scope there for more Whiffs.  ;D
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 30, 2020, 11:14:29 am
Thanks Kit, originally that was my build plan, to do a couple of RAF Twin Mustangs, Merlin and Griffon powered. This GB just happened to be something that the idea could be worked around, I still plan on building the RAF ones but that will be another story too.
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 30, 2020, 12:01:25 pm
Good readin'!
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 30, 2020, 12:27:52 pm
Cheers Brad --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: TheChronicOne on January 30, 2020, 01:19:54 pm
You bet. Made my lunch much better as the television was interrupted with blathering and bloviating.   ;D  Mighty strong backstory, covered all the basis and as I was reading along I was envisioning these systems coming together so it was neat to go back and look for them on the model again. Gun placement and such and the landing gear....  pretty novel approaches to stacking this thing to the hilt.  :mellow:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: NARSES2 on January 31, 2020, 06:15:04 am
Enjoyed that read, well done mate  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on January 31, 2020, 06:35:52 am
Cheers Chris --
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: Tophe on February 02, 2020, 09:02:44 am
Belated congratulations! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on February 02, 2020, 03:51:16 pm
Thanks Tophe, I know it's not up your street ---
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: Tophe on February 04, 2020, 02:32:53 am
I have tried to make a profile of your one (to add to my collection of Mustangs/Twin-Mustangs drawings), thanks! <_<
(http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/P-51_profil04_cm.jpg)
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: kitnut617 on February 05, 2020, 10:09:20 am
That looks really good Tophe  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: North American AF-82/A-11 --- Finished (now with pics)
Post by: Tophe on February 05, 2020, 07:39:13 pm
Thanks! while... the major goodness there is in your model itself ;D