What if

Hot Research Topics => Aircraft, Armor, Weapons and Ships by Topic => Topic started by: Daryl J. on September 18, 2005, 06:47:18 pm

Title: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Daryl J. on September 18, 2005, 06:47:18 pm
Well gents,

After a 4-year hiatus, I can again deal with glue and paint fumes so the modeling begins afresh.  :party:   No, I won't go into details, suffice it to say it was Dr's Orders.

To start things off, I'd love to do a Sabre  in what-if markings.   Lucky Model has Academy 1/48 Sabres for about $10US so I picked up a couple.    Simple but effective schemes sound the most appealing at this point.   Apart from EDSG/Sky/Roundels, I'm blank on ideas.  

What were the Luftwaffe's Marine F-104's painted in (the greys)?  Perhaps that with a red port horizontal stab, a black tail, and a yellow starboard horizontal stab?

Thoughts, comments?    B)  B)  B)


 :cheers:
Daryl J., fogged in with cold medicine............... :zzz:  :dum:



PS:   I did a search and all of Jennings Sabres are gone save for the very cool P-86E.   Those all got missed.
Title: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on September 18, 2005, 10:40:37 pm
RAF Aden (sort-of) scheme - Glossy Lt Stone/Dk Earth over Azure Blue. Decals from.... well anywhere really.

RAE - Raspberry Ripple scheme

Mexican - Use Vietnam tan and greens, but in much thinner bands. Decals from Albatros

Marineflieger would be great Bassaltgrau uber Silbergrau mit Leuchtorange bands on the drop tanks & wingtips..... Mmmmm ! :wub: Decals from a passing Hasegawa Starfighter could be made to fit

USAF/USN Aggressor - go nutz ! schemes, patterns decals all available relatively easily. Think of those wild schemes they painted the early Navy A-4's in....

Danish (Late) - really tired & patchy overall faded Olive Drab

Can't think of anythin' else just now as I'm at the end of a night watch and even the little pixie in the flying jacket that lives inside my head has gone to sleep ! :wacko:

I H-G

 
Title: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Daryl J. on September 19, 2005, 08:08:50 pm
What are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels?  The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.

I'm gravitating towards doing a British squadron hack in gray/gray/Post Office red with standard blue/white/red roundels.

The simplistic scheme would augment the Sabre's already elegant lines.


My alternative is Basaltgrau/Weissaluminium/Leuchtorange in German markings.

 The tertiary choice as of now is a French aircraft in Mirage III blue.  :wub:


All plausible, all never happened. :party:  :party:  :party:
Daryl J.  
Title: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Ian the Kiwi Herder on September 20, 2005, 11:19:41 am
Quote
What are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels?  The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.
Two schemes

Darker Greys
Dark Sea Grey over tops of wings and fuselage extending down the fuselage to a point just below the cable ducts.
Barley Grey under the fuselage
Light Aircraft Grey under the wings and stabilizers.

Lighter Greys
Medium Sea Grey over tops of wings and upperfuselage to a mid point at the wing/fuse joint.
Barley Grey lower fuselage and fin
Light Aircraft Grey under the wings and stabilizers.

HTH

I H-G
Title: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: gooberliberation on December 29, 2007, 05:41:12 am
Sukhoi Su-86, with Soviet engine and with machine guns replaced by heavy cannon.

Apparently it almost happened. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-7)  :ph34r:  
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on March 11, 2008, 01:10:55 pm
My own ideas for a modern F-86 would have been for a new build airframe with current technology being applied for creating a better aircraft.  Some of these things would be:


The aircraft should be stressed to allow carriage of larger fuel tanks as well as the usual bombs and missiles.  As a close support aircraft it would not really be necessary to add a fire control radar but there would be a need for INS and GPS related systems to keep the pilot informed about where they are on the battlefield.  I would imagine that the aircraft would be smart enough to allow employment of precision guided weapons such as the AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-114 Hellfire, Brimstone, as well as laser guided bombs.  Other ordnance combinations for close air support would include standard general purpose bombs, fire bombs, gun pods, rockets, and cluster bombs.  This would be a light and agile close support aircraft without all of the trappings currently associated with the current crop of wunder waffen such as the F-16, F-18, F-15, F-22, and F-35. 
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: dy031101 on March 11, 2008, 10:39:52 pm
North American proposed a TF30-powered (and therefore enlarged) FJ-4B for the competition that led to A-7 Corsair.  That could be the basis for the modern F-86.

Unable to find further info on it, what I have in mind is this:

1. turbofan engine (either TF30 or re-engined with a more powerful/reliable type such as Spey TF41)

2. 2 x Mk 12 20mm cannons

3. three hardpoints under each wing (AIM-9s under midwing hardpoints and bombs/rockets/ASMs under others)

4. centreline under fuselage attachment point for FLIR or laser designator pod (this one is not my speculation but my imagination- I didn't like A-7's having to devote a store hardpoint just to use a FLIR pod)

Of course, compatibilities with AGM-65 and glide/guided bombs would be followed by those of Litening pod and Brimstone missiles as they became available......

What I'm unable to imagine is how much the airframe would be enlarged as a result of using TF30 or TF41...... does anyone have an idea on that?



Or simply a modernised FJ-4B with the afore-mentioned descriptions 2. to 4. and J52-P-8A or J52-P-408 turbojet (or even, like jeffryfontaine said, F404-GE-100D turbofan) engine......
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on March 12, 2008, 11:40:10 am
North American proposed a TF30-powered (and therefore enlarged) FJ-4B for the competition that led to A-7 Corsair.  That could be the basis for the modern F-86.
]What I'm unable to imagine is how much the airframe would be enlarged as a result of using TF30 or TF41...... does anyone have an idea on that?
Your suggestion to use the TF30 or the TF41/Spey in the F-86 airframe would be great if you are going to perform a scale-o-rama using a 1/32nd F-86 kit as a 1/48th scale subject.  Both of these engines are far too large for a standard F-86/AF-1/FJ airframe.  The J52 or the preferred F404 would be much better suited to the F-86 airframe since they are signaficantly smaller in size.  Your suggestion reminds me of the F-86C/YF-93A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93) which was developed to compete against the F-90 and F-88 and used a different engine and it was also fitted with dual wheels all around due to the increased weight of the aircraft.  I believe that the F404 would be much easier to adapt to an airframe such as the F-86 when you consider the success that was had with the A-4 Skyhawk modernization that was undertaken by Singapore. 

centreline under fuselage attachment point for FLIR or laser designator pod (this one is not my speculation but my imagination- I didn't like A-7's having to devote a store hardpoint just to use a FLIR pod)
Not a lot of room under the fuselage for anything since the main landing gear are in the way.  The FLIR pod on the A-7 was a second generation sensor, the later third generation LANTIRN EO/FLIR/Radar systems developed for the F-15E are much smaller and could be adapted to the fuselage of the F-86 or be built into the airframe, perhaps a simple stretch of the fuselage by insterting a plug forward and aft of the wings would allow the incorporation of these systems as well as some additional fuel.  The stretched fuselage would also be ideal for the addition of a second seat for another crewmember.  Since this would be a close air support aircraft, the second set of eyeballs would be ideal for the forward air control mission as well as acquiring targets with the electro-optical weapons which would free the pilot to maneuver the aircraft.   

Of course, compatibilities with AGM-65 and glide/guided bombs would be followed by those of Litening pod and Brimstone missiles as they became available
The advantage of using the AGM-65 and other electro-optical guided weapons fitted with the standard TV or the IIR seeker could be used to acquire the target prior to launch.  This was one of the hidden benefits of adding this type of weapon to older aircraftr such as the F-4, A-4, A-7 and the A-10, all of which had no dedicated electro-optical viewing system incorporated into the airframe using the TV, or IIR seeker as an ersatz FLIR or TV for the pilot. 

2 X Mk 12 20mm cannons
(From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mk_12_cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Mk_12_cannon))"The Mk 12 was an advanced derivative of the wartime Hispano HS 404 that had been used on a variety of American and British fighter aircraft during World War."  The ground and naval mounts for the Mk 12 20mm cannon required that the gunners administer lubricration oil or grease to the ammunition prior to firing otherwise the guns would jam.  The aircraft mounts were apparently fitted with a lubrication oil resovoir that performed this same function.  A friend of mine that actually fired these weapons during the Vietnam war had nothing good to say about them and described having to keep a bucket of lube oil and a paint brush nearby when firing to "baste" the ammunition as it was fed into the guns.  Not the best choice for an aircraft weapon.  I would imagine there are several better choices available now that would perform much better.  Perhaps switching to a single 25mm - 30mm cannon would be better, dropping from two weapons to one since the performance and firepower available would be greater for the single weapon over a pair of 20mm cannons. 
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: dy031101 on March 13, 2008, 08:49:06 pm
Your suggestion to use the TF30 or the TF41/Spey in the F-86 airframe would be great if you are going to perform a scale-o-rama using a 1/32nd F-86 kit as a 1/48th scale subject.  Both of these engines are far too large for a standard F-86/AF-1/FJ airframe.  The J52 or the preferred F404 would be much better suited to the F-86 airframe since they are signaficantly smaller in size.  Your suggestion reminds me of the F-86C/YF-93A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_YF-93) which was developed to compete against the F-90 and F-88 and used a different engine and it was also fitted with dual wheels all around due to the increased weight of the aircraft.

After hard brainstorming, I kind of think that maybe the size of YF-93 wouldn't look bad with the aerodynamic alterations of FJ-4B...... assuming that's as far as the enlargement goes.

Not a lot of room under the fuselage for anything since the main landing gear are in the way.  The FLIR pod on the A-7 was a second generation sensor......
The advantage of using the AGM-65 and other electro-optical guided weapons fitted with the standard TV or the IIR seeker could be used to acquire the target prior to launch.  This was one of the hidden benefits of adding this type of weapon to older aircraftr such as the F-4, A-4, A-7 and the A-10, all of which had no dedicated electro-optical viewing system incorporated into the airframe using the TV, or IIR seeker as an ersatz FLIR or TV for the pilot.

Guess that'll do.

I would imagine there are several better choices available now that would perform much better.  Perhaps switching to a single 25mm - 30mm cannon would be better, dropping from two weapons to one since the performance and firepower available would be greater for the single weapon over a pair of 20mm cannons. 

Dropping Mk 12 cannons, the VAL competition predated the development of Bushmaster cannon (a factor in my consideration during my previous post), so the North American entry might have to make do with Pontiac M39 20mm cannons (actually I found that these are used by F-86H) instead.  Of course, later constructions might opt for a more powerful armament.

The stretched fuselage would also be ideal for the addition of a second seat for another crewmember.  Since this would be a close air support aircraft, the second set of eyeballs would be ideal for the forward air control mission as well as acquiring targets with the electro-optical weapons which would free the pilot to maneuver the aircraft. 

For people who could use some reference, below is a TF-86F (with the second seat and the obligatory fuselage stretch).

Now that I come to think about it, a J52-powered F-1C (a.k.a. FJ-3, which is pretty much the properly-navalized Saber) would be visually-pleasing, too.  Give it the same modification as the TF-86F......
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ (AF-1) Fury
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 15, 2008, 12:39:46 pm
I spent a few minutes this afternoon trying to create my interpretation of a modern F-86E/F fitted with a one piece windscreen/canopy. 

The results are pleasing but I am starting to think that the AF-1 Fury would be a better choice due to the raised portion directly behind the canopy which was needed to fill in the blank space created by removing the original canopy outline and adding in the F-22 canopy. 

Edit: Improved on the original drawing and increased the size slightly to allow better detail.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on August 15, 2008, 02:40:42 pm
What are the EE Lightnings painted when they have those pink roundels?  The sites I've been to are all over the map when it comes to color used.

I'm gravitating towards doing a British squadron hack in gray/gray/Post Office red with standard blue/white/red roundels.

The simplistic scheme would augment the Sabre's already elegant lines.


My alternative is Basaltgrau/Weissaluminium/Leuchtorange in German markings.

 The tertiary choice as of now is a French aircraft in Mirage III blue.  :wub:


All plausible, all never happened. :party:  :party:  :party:
Daryl J. 

If your going RAF, how about putting it in wraparound DG/DSG & bombing it up?  Low vis roundels in a Strike Command Squadron colours, rob the parts & decals from Revells Hunter FGA.9.  Subtle whiff, without being too subtle but enought to make the casual observer scratch their heads.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jeffry Fontaine on August 15, 2008, 07:41:43 pm
I spent some more time this evening trying to create another of my interpretations of a modern F-86 fitted with a one piece canopy. 

This time it started with an F-86H drawing and the canopy from an F-16 was blended into the fuselage.  The area behind the canopy still required a larger fairing which again hints at maybe the AF-1 Fury would be a better choice again due to the raised portion directly behind the canopy which was needed to fill in the blank space created by removing the original canopy outline and adding in the F-16 canopy.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: elmayerle on August 17, 2008, 07:57:57 pm
I've got the bits and pieces (at home, darn it) to combine a F-86H fuselage with the wings and tail surfaces of the FJ-4B.  I could easily combine some more bits to add a more modern canopy.  The deeper fuselage would definitely allow a dry F404 or F414.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: GTX on January 02, 2009, 12:57:49 pm
What if sotoolslinger's Delta100 (see here (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22510.0.html)) needed a trial bird for the "new" delta wing first:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/More%20Creations/F86delta.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on January 02, 2009, 01:51:48 pm
How about adding a T-tail, or maybe a tail set high up the fin? I'm not the biggest T-tail fan (ducks), but engineers were a Little skittish about tailless designs in the early days, & I think it might suit it.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ElectrikBlue on January 02, 2009, 03:46:57 pm
For delta design with T-tail see :
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/nord1405.html (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/nord1405.html)!  ;D

Regards,

EB
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on January 02, 2009, 03:50:58 pm
Ah, forgot about that one, thanks EB!  Looks very similar to Gregs profile bash, in plan view at least.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ElectrikBlue on January 02, 2009, 04:04:20 pm
There's another french plane from the mid-50's similar to the Delta 100 see :
http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/sud-est_durandal.php (http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/sud-est_durandal.php)

Regards,

EB
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: sotoolslinger on January 02, 2009, 04:52:51 pm
KJ if you check out my thread on the Delta 100 I blended the wing roots with tank halfs so it does actually pinch right about the middle of the wing. I actually thought about adding bulges towards the rear (conformal tanks :blink:) but I'm not doing it on my model. :rolleyes: ;D
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: apophenia on January 05, 2009, 03:46:04 pm
Hmm, a delta Sabre and mentions of T-tails ...

In 1958, Canadair proposed a twin JT-12 strike aircraft -- the CL-76 -- using Sabre bits. That would give you something to do with those now-spare F-86 wings. Not sure what this beastie would've looked like but Canadair's Sabre-based bizjet was to have a T-tail.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: GTX on August 27, 2010, 02:22:56 pm
Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit available to do a TF-86 in 1/48?

(http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img/450-North_American_TF-86_Sabre.jpg)

I have a hankering to try to do the CA-28 ‘Sabre Dingo’ (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27140.0/) in Plastic:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/CA-2875sqn2.jpg)

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 27, 2010, 04:38:51 pm
Didn't Falcon do one in their 'Triple Conversion' series?
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: kitnut617 on August 27, 2010, 05:37:32 pm
Didn't Falcon do one in their 'Triple Conversion' series?

Not in 1/48 scale, Kit.  I've got a couple of them in the 1/72 in the stash though.  The PAK-20 book doesn't list one from any outfit either, but that doesn't mean there might not be one.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: dragon on August 27, 2010, 07:31:50 pm
Whiffing Markings and Paint schemes for an F-86 is a tough job.  As it is, just about every non-Warsaw Pact Air Force seems to have operated the plane in some version or another from its entry in US service until 1996 (when Bolivia retired its ex-Venezuelan Air Force F-86Fs).  You might have to go anachronistic or something else clever.
Good Luck.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: rickshaw on August 27, 2010, 08:57:09 pm
Does anybody have a closeup picture of the FJ-3's wing fold?  I've been looking for one but been unable to find one.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Logan Hartke on August 27, 2010, 09:41:02 pm
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/ (http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/)

Like these?

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: rickshaw on August 27, 2010, 11:15:00 pm
http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/ (http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/fj-3_fury_135867/)

Like these?

Cheers,

Logan

Thanks, they'll do nicely.  I assume that the piece of timber isn't normal equipment though?  ;)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Chris707 on August 28, 2010, 06:12:06 pm
I may have mentioned it before, but in the '60s there was a plan for a war emergency fighter based on stored F-86 airframes, with wing-mounted J85s and the fuselage given over to fuel. There was a similar proposal for the F-84F.

Chris
-----------------------------------

Aviation Resources (http://www.aircraftplans.info/aviationresources.html)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: MAD on August 28, 2010, 10:54:00 pm


I have a hankering to try to do the CA-28 ‘Sabre Dingo’ (http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27140.0/) in Plastic:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/ALT%20RAN%20FAA/CA-2875sqn2.jpg)

Regards,

Greg

Would love to see the end product Greg :cheers:

M.A.D
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: rickshaw on August 29, 2010, 06:56:45 pm
I may have mentioned it before, but in the '60s there was a plan for a war emergency fighter based on stored F-86 airframes, with wing-mounted J85s and the fuselage given over to fuel. There was a similar proposal for the F-84F.

Chris
-----------------------------------

Mmm, 1960s - "Dr. Strangelove", "Failsafe", Cuban Missile Crisis, exactly what sort of war were they contemplating?  Or was this intended for the Mad Max airforce post-apocalypse?  Seems to have been a bit of a disconnect there between planning and reality - not that isn't all that unusual...   ;D
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jschmus on August 29, 2010, 09:04:12 pm
There is a thread on Secret Projects which makes mention of a Sabre-based attack aircraft in the configuration mentioned.  A reply to the thread brings up the Canadair CL-76:

Quote
"Canadair CL-76 -- Low-level tactical bomber. 1958. Used F-86  [CL-13] components. Two 2,900 lb (1,317 kg) st Pratt & Whitney JT-12s. Span 37 ft 1 in (11.3m); length 43 ft 7 in (13.28 m); height 14 ft 9 in (4.59 m)."

Source: p510 KM Molson & HA Taylor, Canadian Aircraft since 1909, Canada's Wings, 1982

The post goes on to mention that there are no images.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ChernayaAkula on August 29, 2010, 09:38:51 pm
Does anyone know if there is a conversion kit available to do a TF-86 in 1/48?

Cap'n Greg, I did some diggin' for you on ARC and found out that an outfit called Fox 3 Studios does a 1/48 conversion for a TF-86. Costs 48$ US. For more details, see THIS THREAD (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=178690).

Said thread also contains a pic of a Sabre Dog twin-seater. Jolly nice work!

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/cmdrcody/IMG022-2.jpg)

For those who like 1/72, Airmodel does a vacu fuselage of the TF-86. CLICKY! (http://www.airmodel.de/product_info.php?language=en&info=p78_rf-86h-k---tf-86---ca-27.html&)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: GTX on August 30, 2010, 12:36:11 am
Wow, thanks - email sent to find out more.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: PR19_Kit on August 30, 2010, 08:45:59 am
Said thread also contains a pic of a Sabre Dog twin-seater. Jolly nice work!

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/cmdrcody/IMG022-2.jpg)

Doesn't THAT look the business?  :thumbsup:

It has the 'essence of Whiffness' in that it looks so real you question whether it isn't!
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: rickshaw on August 30, 2010, 08:28:28 pm
I like the underfuselage Genie.  Make you wonder why they bothered with the Falcons...
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: GTX on August 31, 2010, 12:35:12 am
Contacted Gerry at Fox 3 Studios.  A 1/48 TF-86 conversion is now on order!!!!

Great guy too - very prompt, professional service - highly recommended :thumbsup:.  I also have a copy of his full catalogue of items if any one is interested.  PM me your email and I will forward.

Regards,

Greg
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on August 31, 2010, 09:50:56 am
The two-seat Dog is nice.

I think it would look good with the larger 'F-40' wing (slatted 6-3 wing with 12" tip extensions)
as fitted to the SAGE F-86Ls (rebuilt F-86D) and the final batch of FIAT built F-86Ks.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on August 31, 2010, 10:58:31 am
The Fuji T-1 could make a basis for a whiff 2 seat F-86 variant if you were willing to bash it a bit.  It's kind of an F-86 itself, definately realted but with large portions of the airframe being re-designed including a completley new front end, wing & Orpheus engine.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on August 06, 2012, 08:14:02 am
Found a good online article about successful Soviet attempts to capture Sabres, including a snippet of an abortive attempt to reverse engineer it.
http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/cit-wetterhahn.html?c=y&page=1 (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/cit-wetterhahn.html?c=y&page=1)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: kerick on August 06, 2012, 09:23:00 am
How about a Sabre with two engines like the Skyfox?
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b169/dwcsnake/Misc/mystery0011.jpg)
Room in the nose for radar and fuel in the fuselage. Small Air Forces rebuilding their Sabres to last another 10 years. Lots of options, Hmmmm...
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Mossie on August 06, 2012, 03:18:13 pm
Funnily enough, I as reading about just such a beast on Secret Projects, albiet with underwing engines:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2727.msg155541.html#msg155541

No pics on that thread unfortunately, but there's some of an F-84 with the same configuration to give a good idea of what it would like:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4884.msg38668.html#msg38668
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: nighthunter on August 07, 2012, 04:07:52 pm
Figured I'd show my Idea for a Future Sabre:

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/Donovan_NightHunter/FD%20Scale/FutureSabre.png)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: rickshaw on March 21, 2014, 11:20:47 pm
Something different:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/145/76869744.jpg)

Quote
A rare picture of a CL-13 (a license built F-86 made by Canadair) Sabre being evaluated by the Israeli Air Force in the 1950's. The Israeli Air Force seen the great performance of the F-86, that they were planning to buy 24 of them. However, political issues and Arab opposition killed the purchase and decided to get the French made fighters like the Dassault Mystere instead.
[Source (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?220875-Concept-Canceled-Proposed-Rumored-Military-amp-Civilian-Projects/page10)]
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Gondor on March 22, 2014, 01:50:07 am
I have that build in my stash, almost finish  :banghead:

Gondor
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Logan Hartke on August 12, 2014, 12:14:30 pm
(http://navypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/jetkayak.jpg?w=949) (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak-2/)

(http://navypilotoverseas.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/jetkayak2.jpg?w=949) (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak2-2/)

Lt Horatio Gates “Bud” Sickel & Pilots of VF-5A, FJ-1 Fury, NAS San Diego, March 1948 (http://navypilotoverseas.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/lcdr-elder-and-pilots-of-vf-5a-vf-51-fj-1-fury-nas-san-diego-march-1948/jetkayak-2/)

Cheers,

Logan
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jesse220 on August 12, 2014, 05:57:49 pm
Why not make a forward swept wing f-86? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: NARSES2 on August 13, 2014, 06:28:10 am
Wonderfull photograph  ;D ;D

Thanks Logan  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: DarrenP on August 18, 2014, 11:03:01 am
wonder what a sabre with a Merlin or Griffin engine would look like
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: kitnut617 on August 18, 2014, 11:12:53 am
Funny you should ask that --

sometime ago after reading a book put out by the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust called the Rolls Royce Crecy (V-12 2-Stroke engine about the same size as a Merlin), I came up with this because I was looking for an airframe that could handle 8000 hp.

The idea is the engine is where the jet engine really is and the prop was driven by an extension shaft.  Because the exhaust exited through an exhaust turbine, the exhaust exits through the tail pipe.  One of the layout schemes shown in the book has the radiator core surrounding the engine supercharger, my idea was the hot cooling air exits outside of the exhaust tail pipe.

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/397246ac-6492-47a8-bfd4-ed72a88800c7.JPG)

(http://village.photos/images/user/8f3973c9-3f0e-4b54-80e2-017121c0bf9f/d1ccf810-9bca-4f7d-ac90-8270508e93cc.JPG)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Jesse220 on August 22, 2014, 04:14:52 pm
I would love to see a forward swept wing Sabre.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: zenrat on August 22, 2014, 07:18:22 pm
Very nice. Being 2-stroke and shaft driven it would have a distinctive noise :blink:

Like 12 giant flying Whipper Snippers in close formation!
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ysi_maniac on September 14, 2017, 12:07:32 am
Subtle crossings between SMB2 and Sabre.

(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/SMB2-Sabre_cross.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/SMB2-Sabre_cross.jpg.html)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Air21 on September 16, 2017, 08:27:31 pm
I always thought the rocket tray on the F-86d was a cool feature.  70mm rockets hidden in the fuselage.

Think about a low cost stealth demonstrator.  The engine is completely shielded from radar, the intake just needs planform alignment and a nice blended trapezoidal wing.  Tailless or v tails.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Dizzyfugu on September 17, 2017, 09:56:09 am
The Super Mystere also had a retractable rocket launch rack (rarely used, if at all, though), PLUS guns...
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 18, 2017, 11:43:58 am
A rocket-pack is great as long as works correctly.  ;D

Premature firing during test of a proposed 3-row rocket-pack, 9-9-55, pilot was Bob Hoover.
F-86D/K/L: Part One, Ray Wagner, Ginter 1999

(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-QkxZhQ4/0/cf393d4e/L/F86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_01-L.png)

(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-4dJCSS9/0/27f49815/L/F86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_02-L.png)

(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-9qj6pfh/0/dcfc14ce/L/F86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_04-L.png)

(http://photos.smugmug.com/BTS-2/i-277PCNv/0/ea395ac3/L/F86D_ROCKET_MISHAP_03-L.png)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Old Wombat on September 18, 2017, 06:43:02 pm
Well, that would have made for an interesting flight! :o
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: NARSES2 on September 19, 2017, 12:56:42 am
Fascinating, thanks Jon  :thumbsup:

I'm actually surprised that "problem" didn't have more serious consequences  :o
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: zenrat on September 19, 2017, 03:12:31 am
Hmmmm, yes.  A flat front tyre (or even missing undercarriage) would have made for an interesting landing.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: joncarrfarrelly on September 19, 2017, 09:07:40 am
Seeing as the pilot was Bob Hoover it was probably a matter of "Aw, sh_t" and he
got on with landing the plane. Bob was a truly incredible pilot, possibly the best
US pilot ever.
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 19, 2017, 10:11:33 am
Having seen Bob Hoover do his thing with the Aero Commander, like landing from a loop with NEITHER engine running from the bottom of the loop, I'm surprised he even noticed.  ;D

It probably flew better with that extra intake area anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ysi_maniac on December 29, 2019, 08:33:11 pm
P-86 wearing Spanish Republic Air Force markings during Korean War.

(https://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/ysi_maniac/Drawing/P86-SRAF.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/ysi_maniac/media/Drawing/P86-SRAF.jpg.html)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: perttime on May 09, 2020, 12:37:22 am
Have we seen the biplane Sabre before?

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZcLzvn.jpg)
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: ChernayaAkula on May 09, 2020, 08:21:32 am
We have. But that was more than ten years ago.  :o
I even tried building one. LINK! (https://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php?topic=22368.0) May have to pry this one from the Shelf of Doom. Might be difficult finding the bits and bobs again, though, after all those years..... :banghead:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 09, 2020, 08:52:24 am
Yes Moritz, you really SHOULD dig it out again, what you've done on  it so far looks magnificent!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: zenrat on May 27, 2021, 05:27:45 am
I have just discovered this rare picture of the RAAF's first attempt at an AEW aircraft.  The project was cancelled when flight testing showed a few instability issues.
(https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/75434_1598142267.jpg)
https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/5/75434_1598142267.jpg
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: NARSES2 on May 27, 2021, 06:13:52 am
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: Dizzyfugu on May 27, 2021, 06:14:07 am
LOL!
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: PR19_Kit on May 27, 2021, 09:44:42 am
I can just see you building that in the near future, and then claiming 'Well it must be right, I've got photographic proof!'  ;D ;) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: perttime on May 27, 2021, 10:23:58 am
I should go and see if I can get a shot of a MiG or SAAB AEW version...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/41160+Tikkakoski/@62.387589,25.6799855,90m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4685a1ae97b8957b:0xa0146d8a39460c0!8m2!3d62.3891662!4d25.6466846
Title: Re: F-86 Sabre and FJ Fury
Post by: tahsin on August 22, 2021, 04:49:29 pm
This is as close as it is, considering l could find no F-100 topic...

I was flabbergasted today. Strangely enough l had never noticed the Super Sabre had not only wingfences but they looked like someone had welded some pylon backwards...


https://imgur.com/4BtmRGR

Hopefully the picture will show up with the relevant shadows. So, putting a Sidewinder or rocket pod up there is pedestrian. I nominate the triple American rocket launcher from WW ll. Mounted with two up and one tube lower. One outward gains external antennas as the jammer pod, other two carry chaff and flares.