What if

General Modelling Forum => What-if related Products => ProjectTech Profiles => Topic started by: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 09:46:56 AM

Title: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Since 1918 and the formation of the RAF, the British Army has sought its own dedicated close support capability. This finally entered the Army Air Corps (AAC) order of battle in 2004 with the arrival of the WAH-6D Apache Longbow.

The AAC had been arming its helicopters since the service's establishment in its modern form in 1957, even if that was a Sterling poked out the door of a Skeeter. The arrival of the Scout saw heavier weapons, including guided weapons, mounted on the AAC's machines but it was the Lynx and its TOW anti-tank missiles that gave the British Army the means to halt the Soviet Horde. Meanwhile, across Europe, armies sought an attack helicopter - what the popular press call a 'gunship' - as an alternative to the US Apache and Europe's helicopter builders proposed types such as the Fokker/VFW/Westland P.277, Agusta A129, Eurocopter Tiger, Westland WG.44, WG.45 and WG.47 types for consideration.

The General Staff and the Helicopter examines these alternatives to the AH-64 Apache from the British Army's perspective, drawing on previously unpublished material from HM Government and company archives to describe how the AAC's doctrine changed from the agile, small and stealthy Agusta A129 and WG.44 of GST.3971 to the large and tough Apache of SR(A).428. This change saw the resulting procurement process become a foregone conclusion but rules of procurement saw the Cobra Venom, LHX, Mangusta, Rooivalk and Tiger up against the General Staff's favourite; Westland's WAH-64D Apache.

Lavishly illustrated with many previously unpublished photographs and drawings, including original artwork by Luciano Alviani, The General Staff and the Helicopter tells the story of how the British Army acquired the most formidable close support helicopter on earth as its long sought after organic close support platform.

Hopefully we'll have The General Staff and the Helicopter available in the spring.

Thanks for your ongoing support in our efforts to document areas of aerospace that receive little attention.

Chris



(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4844/46011912192_799038ddb0_b.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: PR19_Kit on November 26, 2018, 10:47:05 AM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


Land Vixens?  ;)
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 26, 2018, 10:47:05 AM
Land Vixens?  ;)

Notwithstanding your knowing wink they most certainly are not Vixens of any description, Kit, but they'd make a great whif subject! 
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitnut617 on November 26, 2018, 02:49:27 PM
Quote from: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 26, 2018, 02:49:27 PM
Quote from: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.

Cheers Robert, I had the 2nd Edition to hand where as the 1st editions were in other bookcases or rooms.

Anyway one to look forward to with the focus on the Attack helicopters
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitnut617 on November 27, 2018, 05:14:53 AM
Quote from: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: kitnut617 on November 26, 2018, 02:49:27 PM
Quote from: Thorvic on November 26, 2018, 02:10:14 PM
Quote from: kitbasher on November 26, 2018, 10:31:47 AM
Rotaries are not my cup of tea but I hope the book sells well.

What are the twin-boom jet beasties on the front cover?  They look like the offspring of a Sea Vixen and a Focke-Wulf Flitzer - a sort of 80s-tech de Havilland Venom.


BAC P.70 EAG.8436 (p294 BSP:2 Jet bomber since 1949 2nd Edition) evolved Jaguar/Harrier hybrid to AST.396

A 3-View is also in the 1st addition, page 185.

Cheers Robert, I had the 2nd Edition to hand where as the 1st editions were in other bookcases or rooms.

Anyway one to look forward to with the focus on the Attack helicopters

I've got one of Martin's P.1216 kits, the fuselage center section looks very similar. You could use the booms from the kit too ---
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Gondor on November 28, 2018, 01:54:17 PM
I have an old, and I mean old Airfix Jaguar sitting around not doing anything at the moment, I could be tempted to have a go at the P.70

Gondor
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: AS.12 on November 28, 2018, 10:43:42 PM
Oooh this book is definitely on my wishlist now.

I sort-of 'grew up' with the A.129 through the 1980s and it seemed that it was never going to enter service, I couldn't understand why it had such a glacial development process, and that was just the weak-engined Mk 1 let alone the Mk 2 that the AAC wanted.

One point-of-divergence I've considered as a head-WHIF was an interim solution built on the S-70; Shorts took a license from Sikorsky in the early 1980s whilst Westland was faffing with the WG.30 Fat Lynx.  The proposal was as a Wessex replacement but with the ESSS wings it might have made a useful Royal Hind for a couple of decades, too.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Thorvic on November 28, 2018, 11:37:33 PM
Should be interesting to see what the home grown designs are like and if they could be built or even kitted  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Gondor on November 29, 2018, 01:14:03 AM
I wonder if the S-67 is in the book as a proposed aircraft seeing that I have one in the stash looking to be built with a suitable operator.

Gondor
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: elmayerle on December 08, 2018, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: AS.12 on November 28, 2018, 10:43:42 PM
One point-of-divergence I've considered as a head-WHIF was an interim solution built on the S-70; Shorts took a license from Sikorsky in the early 1980s whilst Westland was faffing with the WG.30 Fat Lynx.  The proposal was as a Wessex replacement but with the ESSS wings it might have made a useful Royal Hind for a couple of decades, too.
Well, according to the AIAA book on the S-70/H-60, Sikorsky did propose an attack derivative of the H-60 to the US Army.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Mossie on April 18, 2019, 03:50:36 AM
Somehow missed this.  I've got the other two in the series, any idea when this is due?
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 18, 2019, 07:40:19 AM
It's been around for quite a while, I got my copy at Telford.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitnut617 on April 18, 2019, 09:13:31 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 18, 2019, 07:40:19 AM
It's been around for quite a while, I got my copy at Telford.

How did you get that Kit, over on the SPF, Chris Gibson says he hasn't finished it (that was as a couple of weeks ago)
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Mossie on April 18, 2019, 11:16:32 AM
I hope so, don't want to miss the boat....
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 18, 2019, 11:18:55 AM
Erm, what's the one I've got then, with the three Cierva Air Horses on the cover?  :-\
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Mossie on April 18, 2019, 11:25:02 AM
Air Staff and the Helicopter. :thumbsup:  Phew, I'm glad I hadn't missed it, I was gutted that I didn't get a copy of the HS P.1121 volume, the only one I haven't got in my collection.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: kitnut617 on April 18, 2019, 01:02:40 PM
OK, I see the problem, there's two books, the one with the three Air Horses on the front is The Air Staff and the Helicopter, the new one is as this thread title.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: Mossie on April 18, 2019, 01:17:33 PM
This will be the third installment, the other is The Admiralty and the Helicopter.
Title: Re: The General Staff and the Helicopter
Post by: PR19_Kit on April 18, 2019, 02:30:57 PM
Me, confused?  :-\

You bet, I must have missed the announcement that he was doing a third one in the series.