What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Aircraft => Topic started by: Gondor on August 30, 2021, 11:06:12 am

Title: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on August 30, 2021, 11:06:12 am
So I decided that I would have a crack at building this. Several, at least two kits will be used to build it along with some scratch building.

So far I have cut the wing roots out and produced some blurry pictures

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51412521357_63e0e8195a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mk9Bq2)

Interior detail was then removed

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51413266211_f97f1cce35_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mkdqQk)

And the basis for some new detail added

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51414248365_470b7f8141_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mkisN2)

You might think, "Why remove the detail only to put it back in?". It actually serves a two fold purpose. As I have removed the wing roots there are now large holes where there was plastic so the holes needed to be covered up. The wing roots, when they were there were great big recesses so regardless I was going to have to add some kind of interior skinning, this way I can do as much or as little as I want as far as interior detail is concerned.

The wing will be scratch built, all four of them but I have a problem.

Flaps  :-\

Not me, the ones on the wings! Just the underside of the lower wings or the whole rear section of the lower wings. For that matter, should there just be flaps on the lower wings or all four seeing it's a biplane?

Help in deciding on a course of action would be appreciated although I am leaning towards whole rear section of just the lower wings.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: 63cpe on August 30, 2021, 12:21:40 pm
IMHO: all four wings should have flaps just like the AN-2 (just found that out, as I planned to transplant them on a Martin MB-2).

Cheers,
David aka 63cpe
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Pellson on August 30, 2021, 01:41:51 pm
Depends. Rather few biplanes actually had flaps at all as their wing loading already was so low that they could fly pretty slow.

Are we still in Poland and the thirties, then I would probably go without.
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on August 30, 2021, 02:26:33 pm
Depends. Rather few biplanes actually had flaps at all as their wing loading already was so low that they could fly pretty slow.

Are we still in Poland and the thirties, then I would probably go without.

Yes we are and it is easier to go without. What about leading edge slats, only on the outboard sections of the upper wing, all four wings or not at all?

Gondor, not big on biplanes
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Dizzyfugu on August 30, 2021, 11:20:11 pm
You can mount as many as you want, but from an engineer's point of view additional flaps on the upper wings complicate things a lot - unless you really want an STOL aircraft, I'd just put some under the lower wing or leave them away at all. IIRC the Gloster Gladiator was one of the first aircraft/biplanes that had flaps at all, and these were pretty small and only mounted to the lower wings.
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: zenrat on August 31, 2021, 04:33:53 am
Flaps and slats on all wings so it has to be tied down if the wind rises above a gentle breeze.
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Pellson on August 31, 2021, 07:54:39 am
You can mount as many as you want, but from an engineer's point of view additional flaps on the upper wings complicate things a lot - unless you really want an STOL aircraft, I'd just put some under the lower wing or leave them away at all. IIRC the Gloster Gladiator was one of the first aircraft/biplanes that had flaps at all, and these were pretty small and only mounted to the lower wings.

..which goes a long way when talking about slats as well. Biplane - no need for extra lift devices, to put it simply.
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on August 31, 2021, 10:43:55 am
Thanks for your help with regard the flaps and slats. Makes building the wings far easier too  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 01, 2021, 12:33:32 pm
So far I have managed to add some of the detail back inside the fuselage. Only manageing to do little bit's and pieces week days unfortunately although there is talk of more furlough coming up so I should be able to get a lot more done if it does.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51418819735_b51d2d7e1e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mkGTGK)

I know it's mainly one side though the differences between the two didn't take long to do.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 04, 2021, 11:49:54 am
OK, that's the frame work for the second half completed.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424388508_c884892ec8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mmcr75)

The picture looks better too. That's probably due to a better phone camera, Samsung Galaxy A52 rather than my older A5 which was failing to connect via bluetooth to my Sat Nav and Dash Cam.

Greeblies and do da'ahs next I think and as I am furloughed next week the wings will be right after that.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 06, 2021, 01:43:02 pm
No real visible progress but I have been sorting out material for the wings. This is partly due to my intent to have the wings as seperate items untill the painting stage so I am using a rod and tube method for fixing them in place. A similar method will be used for the undercarriage. If I had an Fairey Albacore I would simply pinch the wings and undercarriage from that, then find I eould have to modify them to suit  :rolleyes:

Progress is progress

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 08, 2021, 07:52:20 am
Not much progress as I have been feeling a little under the weather for the last few days. I have fitted more if the kit internals today and now need to work on further structure for the wings and to decide exactly how big each wing needs to be. I am looking at each eliment being 18' long, it's the depth I havent got worked out yet, four or five foot or something else. Going to look at some swordfish wings later and come up with some sort of an answer possibly  :-\

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 08, 2021, 02:01:50 pm
Something to show so I thought I better show it

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438486875_be70119d75_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnrG4n)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437518766_82e2d9928a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mnmJgQ)

More detail to go inside before I paint the insides but the basis is there just waiting for the detail to be added.

The wings have been started, very, very basic so far, just the lower wings started if two plastic tubes glued onto a rectangle of plastic card counts, but it's a start on them and they slide over the brass tubes which act as the spars for the wings as well.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Dizzyfugu on September 09, 2021, 02:12:57 am
Very nice!
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 11, 2021, 11:56:09 am
One more layer of plastic to go then I start removing it, admitidly only on one wing at the moment, so I thought I may as well show you all how I am doing my best to stop delamination.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51447190512_cfc1bc72bf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2modim5)

I use Revell Contacta Professional to put the glue exactly where I want it to go and then use the metal applicator to spread the glue evenly. Lot's of BIG area clamps to ensure the layers are securely pushed together and then leave for several hours.

Edit: I should add that I had to make sure that the edges of each piece of plastic card were flat and smooth. This helps make sure that the surfaces to be joined will have as few defects as possible.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 12, 2021, 02:12:57 pm
That's the second lower wing clamped together. Below is what it looks like end on.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51457750447_e3681934e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mp9qrV)

It looks like some scrap plastic needs to be fitted in front of the forward wing spar before the sanding to shape starts or there could be a gap.

Looking at other parts that are going to be used later in the build, the engine looks ok although there is a push rod missing and it will be visible so I may replace all of them with wire/tube instead. I don't make things easy for myself do I?

First I rebuild the interior, then I scratch build Four wings and the undercarriage legs need to be done as well. Probably modify the tail surfaces as well, but not by much but enough to change the looks. Yeah, I like it real easy don't I  :rolleyes:

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on September 15, 2021, 12:35:03 pm
The interior has been painted and I may try to put some greeblies inside, stuff such as a throttle quadrant and radios and ammunition, that kind of stuff  :-\ Not sure how well it will go though. Got to sort out the canopy which needs extra bits added in places so it can sit flat on the fuselage sides. It a problem that I knew was going to happen as the canopy is from another aircraft. The big thing is that it will define the who look of the aircraft as it supports the upper wings, their position and thus the whole look of the aircraft.

Gondor
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: NARSES2 on October 15, 2021, 01:47:17 am
Moved as per request
Title: Re: P.Z.L. 19 Sokole oko
Post by: Gondor on October 17, 2021, 08:46:24 am
Recently received a Warpaint Book on the Fairey Albacore as I was thinking of using similar wings for this aircraft. However after looking at the drawings, I have decided to continue with what I was building as it means the wing spars I have glued in place can stay even if they are over engineered for the scale.

Gondor