Author Topic: Mirage F1m  (Read 7010 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lawman

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
Mirage F1m
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2007, 07:09:32 am »
Another option would be a non-combat role, with either Foch or Clemenceau being despatched with hastily modified Alize's, using the Searchwater radar. The carrier embarks Crusaders (or F1Ms) for self defence, and ten converted Alizes, along with a couple of SAR helos. The carrier then operates from a discrete distance, launching flights of Alizes over the British task force, allowing nearly 24/7 coverage. Since the French carrier is not taking part in the actual hostilities, the Argentines are unsure what to do - attack, and be seen to be widening the war, ignore, and the British can defend against the Exocet attacks. As a result, the Argentines decide to try to shoot down an Alize, and manage to bring one down, right in the middle of the British fleet. The crew manage to escape, and are picked up in a matter of minutes by the British helicopters. As a result the French decide to launch a strike against Stanley airfield, using the Durandal runway cratering munition, and put it out of action. Far more worrying for the Argentines, the French decide to make their point, and fly a Mirage IV over Buenos Aires, and deliberately drop an empty drop tank in the middle of a park. This gets the message across that the French are not happy, so Argentina agrees to surrender as the troops enter Stanley.

As a sign of gratitude, the British agree with the French to build a new generation of carriers, the 'CVF', displacing around 45,000 tons, totalling four vessels, two for each country. The UK still gets its three Invincible class carriers, but goes ahead with the sale to Australia, leaving two carriers. As such, the UK converts its two Invincible class carriers to commando carriers (removing the SeaDart missile system), to go with the two new fleet carriers. As such, the UK and France continue in the Eurofighter project, but as a carrier-capable version from the start. As a result, both France and the UK agree to buy 400 each, Germany 200, and Italy and Spain 100 each. Without the squabbling, the aircraft goes into service in the late '90s, initially with the RN and MN, followed by the AdlA and RAF.  

Offline Archibald

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 4984
Mirage F1m
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2007, 05:30:36 am »
Quote
Another option would be a non-combat role, with either Foch or Clemenceau being despatched with hastily modified Alize's, using the Searchwater radar. The carrier embarks Crusaders (or F1Ms) for self defence, and ten converted Alizes, along with a couple of SAR helos. The carrier then operates from a discrete distance, launching flights of Alizes over the British task force, allowing nearly 24/7 coverage. Since the French carrier is not taking part in the actual hostilities, the Argentines are unsure what to do - attack, and be seen to be widening the war, ignore, and the British can defend against the Exocet attacks. As a result, the Argentines decide to try to shoot down an Alize, and manage to bring one down, right in the middle of the British fleet. The crew manage to escape, and are picked up in a matter of minutes by the British helicopters. As a result the French decide to launch a strike against Stanley airfield, using the Durandal runway cratering munition, and put it out of action. Far more worrying for the Argentines, the French decide to make their point, and fly a Mirage IV over Buenos Aires, and deliberately drop an empty drop tank in the middle of a park. This gets the message across that the French are not happy, so Argentina agrees to surrender as the troops enter Stanley.

As a sign of gratitude, the British agree with the French to build a new generation of carriers, the 'CVF', displacing around 45,000 tons, totalling four vessels, two for each country. The UK still gets its three Invincible class carriers, but goes ahead with the sale to Australia, leaving two carriers. As such, the UK converts its two Invincible class carriers to commando carriers (removing the SeaDart missile system), to go with the two new fleet carriers. As such, the UK and France continue in the Eurofighter project, but as a carrier-capable version from the start. As a result, both France and the UK agree to buy 400 each, Germany 200, and Italy and Spain 100 each. Without the squabbling, the aircraft goes into service in the late '90s, initially with the RN and MN, followed by the AdlA and RAF.
Just drooling... brilliant ideas, really! Love them all !!  

Just a point, maybe the FAA and Aeronavale could (both) buy Hornets (F-18C; later Superbug) ? The Aeronavale strongly wanted the machine in the late 80's.  

Got a "Red Storm rising" based alt-history in which, after the sinking of the Foch, the Clemenceau is used for ASM only, with a bunch of Alizées and helos.
Air cover is assumed by USN Hornets, refueled by "buddies" Etendard IVM just after take-off (as the Hornets were too heavy for the Clem'catapults, fuel and A2G wepons are sacrificed).

 The Crusaders goes to a secondary land-based air-defence role (along old
Mirage IIIC, both having R-530s AAMs)
Surviving Super Etendards are send to Germany to reinforce the AdA, a batch is also send to Northern UK to be used as land-based antiship bomber against soviets "raiders".

 :cheers:  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Lawman

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
Mirage F1m
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2007, 05:44:25 am »
How about an F/A-18 derivative, but with a diamond wing and canards? I have a feeling I've seen a picture of such a design, and it looked pretty good. A joint project to replace F/A-18s, F-16s, Tornadoes, Mirages etc, as a canard delta enlarged F/A-18, but perhaps with a pair of F-110 engines, would be good. With some stealthy features added, but without going all out for stealth, it could have been a good alternative to the JSF project. The aircraft would borrow some design touches from the F-22, but mostly using RAM coatings and better general design features. The aircraft would be licensed for production to multiple countries, with everyone having the choice of engines, radars etc, but with a common basic airframe. The French could build it using a much more advanced M-53 or larger M-88 engine, and French radar. The UK could use a RR engine (enlarged EJ200, preferably around 20k lb dry and 28k lb with reheat), and a British radar. The Aussies could use American engines, and radar, or perhaps an Israeli radar.

Basically, it would be a genuine JSF, with each country buying a license for a set number of aircraft, paying for a bare fuselage, so anyone can export them. Each country thus pays a basic license fee to build an airframe, then fits their own avionics and systems, and then can export them if they want. France, the UK, possibly Israel might all want the option of offering their own versions to others, and would be permitted by virtue of paying for the original development.

Total orders:

USAF      - 2000 (replacing F-16s, and some F-15s)
USN         -  1500 (replacing F-14s and F/A-18s)
USMC       -  500 (replacing their Hornets, and possibly their Harriers too)
RAF          -  450 (replacing Tornado F-3s, GR-1/4s, Jaguars etc)
RN            -  150 (to equip the new carriers)
AdlA         - 450 (replacing all the Mirage 2000s and F-1s)
MN           -  150 (replacing Crusaders and Etendards)
Luftwaffe   - 200 (replacing Phantoms and Tornado)
Italian AF   - 200 (replacing Starfighter, Tornado, and ultimately AMX)
Spanish AF - 200 (replacing Hornets and F-1s)
Israeli AF    - 200 (replacing A-4s, F-4s, early F-16s, etc)
Turkish AF   - 200 (replacing F-4s and F-5s, and eventually F-16s)
RCAF          - 100 (replacing Hornets)
RAAF          - 100 (replacing Hornets and partially replacing F-111s)
Danish AF   -  50 (replacing F-16s)
Dutch AF     - 150 (replacing F-16s)
RNorAF       - 100 (replacing F-16s)
Greek AF     - 200 (replacing F-4s, F-16s and Mirages)
Egyptian AF  - 100 (replacing various types)
UAEAF          - 100
South Korea  - 100 (replacing various types)
Singapore      - 100 (replacing various types)

There are probably more, but even just the ones listed would amount to a staggering 7300 aircraft!!! Okay, some of the figures are optimistic, but if the aircraft were a simple good performer, basically combining some of the stealth features of the F-22 or F-35, but with a basic airframe like the Hornet or Typhoon/Rafale. This all depends on it being built in the '90s in place of the other aircraft of course, but if it had happened, that is a massive total!  

Offline gunfighter

  • Makes own decals
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Mirage F1m
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2007, 01:13:25 pm »
I have a plan for an advanced swiss hornet, F18DS-2000 or something alike: IŽll keep the general arrangement, but adding canards somewhere in the LERX, replace engine intakes for some cuadrangular ones like in the super hornet, thrust vectoring nozzles from a F22, and back seat removed to install more electronic stuff. Weapons are wing tip meteors, and triple launch pilons for ASRAAM.
VERY EXPENSIVE and odd in these days, but what if. B)
OH, camo is "dirty " green-white winter.

Offline Archibald

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 4984
Mirage F1m
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2007, 11:44:04 pm »
Quote
I have a plan for an advanced swiss hornet, F18DS-2000 or something alike: IŽll keep the general arrangement, but adding canards somewhere in the LERX, replace engine intakes for some cuadrangular ones like in the super hornet, thrust vectoring nozzles from a F22, and back seat removed to install more electronic stuff. Weapons are wing tip meteors, and triple launch pilons for ASRAAM.
VERY EXPENSIVE and odd in these days, but what if. B)
OH, camo is "dirty " green-white winter.
This would be more or less similar to the Hornet 2000 proposal of 1987 (which was rejected by USN in favor of the Super Hornet we know today ;) )  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.

Offline Archibald

  • Needs A Life Outside What-If
  • *****
  • Posts: 4984
Mirage F1m
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2007, 08:03:22 am »
Bump! Seems that I'm not the only which toyed with the idea of a Mirage F1M replacing the Crusaders. Look at this (nice modelling forum by the way!)

http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.p...=asc&highlight=

 :cheers:  
King Arthur: Can we come up and have a look?
French Soldier: Of course not. You're English types.
King Arthur: What are you then?
French Soldier: I'm French. Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king?

Well regardless I would rather take my chance out there on the ocean, that to stay here and die on this poo-hole island spending the rest of my life talking to a gosh darn VOLLEYBALL.