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Messerschmitt Bf109 Ideas

Started by GTX, September 06, 2008, 02:41:02 PM

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GTX

#30
Another one - a further '46 development of the Bf-109 with contra-props, and revised (262 inspired) cockpit/canopy:



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Daryl J.

Now that looks genuinely good!


Daryl J.

Maverick

Gotta admit Greg, that 'new' 109 looks dead sexy!!

Regards,

Mav

sequoiaranger

WOW GTX, that REALLY looks cool!  It looks like a Bf-109"T" wing (with wing-tip extensions), or even the 109H wing, would go along nicely with the extended fuselage. And the Me-209 V5 tall tail would look good, too! Though I like the looks of the "262" canopy, I think, model-wise, that the 262 canopy is way too wide for the narrow Bf-109 fuselage--a Fw-190D-9 "bubble" canopy might be a good substitute.

Somebody PUL-LEEZE whif that in plastic!

As we know, the Messerschmitt works tried all kinds of follow-ons to the Bf-109, including various 209 and 309 variants, and really couldn't come up with anything better. I really like the LOOKS of your contra-prop 109, but I think the basic Bf-109 had reached the end of its practical evolution.
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

Weaver

Quote from: sequoiaranger on September 14, 2008, 10:24:15 AM
WOW GTX, that REALLY looks cool!  It looks like a Bf-109"T" wing (with wing-tip extensions), or even the 109H wing, would go along nicely with the extended fuselage. And the Me-209 V5 tall tail would look good, too! Though I like the looks of the "262" canopy, I think, model-wise, that the 262 canopy is way too wide for the narrow Bf-109 fuselage

It is: I've tried it. HOWEVER, the Smer Me.262 is a bit underscale and width-wise, it's canopy fits the Airfix Bf.109G a treat. All you need to do is cut a bit out of the spine and windscreen sill  to make it fit.

QuoteAs we know, the Messerschmitt works tried all kinds of follow-ons to the Bf-109, including various 209 and 309 variants, and really couldn't come up with anything better. I really like the LOOKS of your contra-prop 109, but I think the basic Bf-109 had reached the end of its practical evolution.

It's not so much that they wern't better (the second 209 was effectively a new aircraft), but just that at first the RLM thought they wouldn't need a 109-successor, and then when they belatedly realised they did, they wanted a jet.
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GTX

A slight modification here - this time with a Rocket in the tail for added boost:



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

sequoiaranger

On another thread (German forces in the Pacific), "Glenn" posted this pic of a German Ki-100 (hope it's OK to post, Glenn). That got me thinking about the "radial-engined Bf-109" also in another thread here and....since the Ki-61 Tony in-line-engined fighter is the basis for the Ki-100, why not put such a radial conversion on a Bf-109 (presuming some dire restriction on the output of DB-605's forcing Messerschmitt to look elsewhere for powerplants)??
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

Sauragnmon

That would look cool... the irony being that the Germans inspired the build of the Ki-100 when the factory died to begin with.  The next step would be finding a radial that would have fit similar dimensions, not too hard considering you could just line up radials to compare to the one used in the Ki-100 conversion - the noses were similar dimensions if I recall correctly.

The one I want to do is a little less drastic, just a change of camouflage patterns.  I always thought the Lozenge style camouflage in WW1, and part of me a while ago had this insane idea of doing a 109G-6 or K-4 up with a mixture of grays, with theater marking colours mixed in, with a Lozenge pattern to the application.  Pretty tame, but I think it'd look cool with the old Eiseren Kreuz and a lozenge pattern on the wings.  Could have a long drawn out story about a shift in WW1, where the Germans manage to force a standstill through some means, the Kaiserliche doesn't fall apart, so the lozenge pattern evolves into WW2 era fighter camouflage.
Putty-fu, Scratch-jutsu and Bash-chi, the sacred martial arts of the What-If. Mastering them, is Ancient Chinese Secret.

Just your friendly neighbourhood Mad Scientist and Ship-whiffer.

Overkill? Nah, it's Insurance.  So are the 20" guns.

jcf

109TL 3-view scanned from Flug-Revue, June 1961.
Includes 155 B-1 side-view for comparison.

Jon
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

elmayerle

For the Luft'46 site, I did a whole history of the development and evolution of the Me109TL including postwar usages.  I'll be revising that and, when I get everything together again, scanning the three-views I put together.  Got some interesting variants, there (israeli Avia-built examples re-engined with Beryls, for example).
"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."
--Jane Wagner and Lily Tomlin

Sauragnmon

I find myself wondering if that 109TL would actually be properly balanced on that tricycle nosegear.  I could think a taildragger would still be better for the fuselage, the wing gears are way too forward compared to the rest of the whole aircraft.  Not only that, but with a taildragger you could accomodate a whole lot more firepower/ammo in that nice empty nose.  Couple 13mm MG's or 15mm cannons to line up the shots, and a couple of the good old Pneumatic Hammers to deliver the heavy hitting.
Putty-fu, Scratch-jutsu and Bash-chi, the sacred martial arts of the What-If. Mastering them, is Ancient Chinese Secret.

Just your friendly neighbourhood Mad Scientist and Ship-whiffer.

Overkill? Nah, it's Insurance.  So are the 20" guns.

jcf

Quote from: Sauragnmon on September 18, 2008, 03:06:26 PM
I find myself wondering if that 109TL would actually be properly balanced on that tricycle nosegear.  I could think a taildragger would still be better for the fuselage, the wing gears are way too forward compared to the rest of the whole aircraft.  Not only that, but with a taildragger you could accomodate a whole lot more firepower/ammo in that nice empty nose.  Couple 13mm MG's or 15mm cannons to line up the shots, and a couple of the good old Pneumatic Hammers to deliver the heavy hitting.
The bulk of the mass of the Jumo 004s is forward of the main gear plane, add in the weight of the nose armament (guns, feed mechanism & cartridges), nose gear, fuel tank etc and I don't think the balance would that far off.

High velocity 13mm or 15mm guns would be useless for 'lining' up shots from the 30mm Mk 108, the ballistic characteristics are just too different, the 108 fired a low velocity "grenate" round. Anyhow, the text of the article mentions the MG 151/20, MK 103 and MK 108 as potential weapon choices.
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

GTX

An interesting find - Me-109 V31 with belly radiator and wide undercarriage:




regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

Sauragnmon

Not a bad idea, I remember hearing the narrow-leg stance of the 109 was prone to having the gears pop on landing if you weren't careful with it.  The wide-leg would have made it a little easier to land for new pilots late in the war.
Putty-fu, Scratch-jutsu and Bash-chi, the sacred martial arts of the What-If. Mastering them, is Ancient Chinese Secret.

Just your friendly neighbourhood Mad Scientist and Ship-whiffer.

Overkill? Nah, it's Insurance.  So are the 20" guns.

sagallacci

I really like the '109Y design and would like to suggest using '110/'410  main gear units for rearward retraction instead of breaking up the inboard wing section. The standard tall tail or larger '209V5 tail and enlarged tail planes (perhaps mod'ed from the '210/'410 line?)would likely help too.
The armament mix potential could be formitable as well.

Nicely done so far.