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Messerschmitt Bf109 Ideas

Started by GTX, September 06, 2008, 02:41:02 PM

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elmayerle

Quote from: blue520 on September 08, 2008, 08:51:22 AM
Just an idea - A Gull Winged with short rearward retracting landing gear Bf-109 as a replacement for the Ju-87 in dive bombing & ground attack (underwing removable gunpods) with some air defence ability & as a alternative design to the Bf-109T (reducing the problems of the landing gears narrow track & combination sea fighter/attack/dive bomber)?

Gull-wing or inverted-wull-wing ala' F4U Corsair?
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sequoiaranger

>I wonder what a "single-seat" heavy fighter version of the as-built Bf110 would look like?  I can see several ways it could evolve.<

For some reason only the RLM knows, the mighty Fw-187 "Falke" never became operational. That was essentially a single-seat Bf-110 (though it could carry two), but more nimble (one of the 110's failings). Here's two pics of it. The one from head-on makes it look almost like a Henschel 129 with in-line engines!
My mind is like a compost heap: both "fertile" and "rotten"!

blue520

Quote from: elmayerle on September 08, 2008, 08:28:19 PM
Quote from: blue520 on September 08, 2008, 08:51:22 AM
Just an idea - A Gull Winged with short rearward retracting landing gear Bf-109 as a replacement for the Ju-87 in dive bombing & ground attack (underwing removable gunpods) with some air defence ability & as a alternative design to the Bf-109T (reducing the problems of the landing gears narrow track & combination sea fighter/attack/dive bomber)?

Gull-wing or inverted-wull-wing ala' F4U Corsair?

Sorry, inverted. To allow for a set of short robust backwards retracting landing gear.

jcf

Quote from: blue520 on September 09, 2008, 10:40:27 AM

Sorry, inverted. To allow for a set of short robust backwards retracting landing gear.
Something similar to the He 118 then, but with rearward retracting gear?



Jon
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

Maverick

Sequoia, the Hs-129A did fly with inlines, altho they were Argus types and pretty sorry performers.  The Falke why by all accounts superb and I can only guess that it was a political decision to buy the Bf-110.

Regards,

Mav

dy031101

Quote from: Maverick on September 09, 2008, 03:23:43 PM
The Falke why by all accounts superb and I can only guess that it was a political decision to buy the Bf-110.

I've always wondered if they would have fared better in the Battle of Britain against the Hurricanes......
To the individual soldiers, *everything* is a frontal assault!

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Maverick

Dy,

If wartime records are accurate, the Falke was capable of outflying even the Bf-109, let alone the larger Messerschmitt, so I could only assume that its effect upon the Battle would have been quite a bit more positive from a Luftwaffe perspective than 'Goering's Folly'.

Regards,

Mav

Taiidantomcat

I was reading some about it just last night and it could fly faster than the 109 with twice the range. It would have made a huge impact. May not have changed the outcome, but it would have made it much worse for the allies. higher casualties in the Battle of Britain and throughout the rest of the conflict. I'm a huge Luft-46 fan, but even i realize that all those wonder weapons would not have had the impact late in the war, that the Falke would have had from the start, and on the heavy bombers mid war. From the modelers perspective i think it is one of the cleanest, meanest looking prop aircraft ever flown.

"Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gaultier

"My model is right! It's the real world that's wrong!" -global warming scientist

An armor guy, who builds airplanes almost exclusively, that he converts to space fighters-- all while admiring ship models.

jcf

#23
The FW 187 V6 had superior performance to the 109E when equipped with surface evaporative cooled 1,000hp DB 600A engines.
The V6 had a top speed of 390 mph, much faster than the 109E, however a conventionally cooled DB600A version was predicted to
be slightly slower than the 109E. Anyhow the one-off V6 version didn't fly until early 1939, so whether a production version would have been
available in sufficient numbers by the beginning of the BoB and how well it would actually have performed in combat is open to question.

The limited production FW 187A-0 version was powered by 700 hp Jumo 210G engines (all Falke were Jumo powered except for the V6) and was around 20 mph slower than the 109E-3 at altitude. The addition of the second seat and a full operational equipment load increased the weight and wing-loading and consequently the 187 design was no longer as dramatically maneuverable as the original prototypes.

The 187 was developed as a private venture by Focke Wulf and it is generally considered that this the main reason for the lukewarm
response on the part of most RLM bureaucrats.

Jon
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014

dy031101

#24
Air Vectors site states that Finland made this one "VL Pyoerremyrsky" prototype that was based on a Bf-109F or G and optimized for Finland's operational conditions and manufacturing techniques.  It would appear that two pics can be found here.



I couldn't help to imagine...... how these prop-engined fighters would have looked like if they were designed instead as a canarded push-prop configuration?  ;D
To the individual soldiers, *everything* is a frontal assault!

====================

Current Hobby Priority...... Sigh......

To-do list here

blue520

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on September 09, 2008, 11:57:30 AM
Quote from: blue520 on September 09, 2008, 10:40:27 AM

Sorry, inverted. To allow for a set of short robust backwards retracting landing gear.
Something similar to the He 118 then, but with rearward retracting gear?

Jon

Yes similar to the He-118, but I was thinking with a straight wing rather than the elliptical of He-118.

Perhaps for example something similar to the Bf-109H wing with the added centre section forming the down angle.

How ever a Bf-109 mated to the wings of the He-118 could be interesting.

GTX

QuoteI wonder what a single-seat heavy fighter version of the as-built Bf110 would look like?  I can see several ways it could evolve.

Maybe a little like this:



Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

GTX

BTW,

Here are some larger versions of the Bf-109Y:




Note that other unmentioned benefits were the wider, inward folding undercarriage and the greater range thanks to fuel tanks in the rear of each nacelle.  BTW the armarment of this version was 3 machine guns plus a single 30mm cannon - Other versions had more cannons.

Regards,

Greg
All hail the God of Frustration!!!

dogsbody

Nice one, GTX.  I think it would need larger tail surfaces, though.
"What young man could possibly be bored
with a uniform to wear,
a fast aeroplane to fly,
and something to shoot at?"

jcf

Quote from: dogsbody on September 12, 2008, 05:47:17 PM
Nice one, GTX.  I think it would need larger tail surfaces, though.

... and a stretched fuselage.

Jon
"Conspiracy theory's got to be simple.
Sense doesn't come into it. People are
more scared of how complicated crap
actually is than they ever are about
whatever's supposed to be behind the
conspiracy."
-The Peripheral, William Gibson 2014