What if

GROUP BUILDS => The 2016 One Week Build => Topic started by: Mossie on April 29, 2016, 12:58:28 pm

Title: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on April 29, 2016, 12:58:28 pm
Nope, not Super Heroes!  I'm building a pair of P.94's, the single seat Defiant.  I'm trying to think of a name, I've got a few ideas but any others are welcome.

Obligatory box(es) shot.  I took the opportunity for 'Nev time', preparation allowing cutting to remove the spine from both aircraft:

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/f7557f6f-00e9-420f-a49d-530b3f095da1.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/f7557f6f-00e9-420f-a49d-530b3f095da1.jpg.html)

This is my alternative history of the P.94:

Mk.I    - P.94 as per drawings (no flat on spine), 8 or 12 .303's, otherwise as per Defiant Mk.I
Mk.Ia  - Cannon armed Mk.I (real world proposal)
Mk.II   - Conversions of Mk.I Defiants, flat to spine as per K8310 to P.94 prototype, 8 or 12 .303's
Mk.IIa - Cannon armed Mk.II
Mk.III  - Merlin XX and other changes as per Defiant Mk.II, cannon armed
Mk.IV   - Sabre engined prototype as per P.96A
Mk.V    - Centaurus engined prototype as per P.96D
Mk.VI   - Merlin 24 as per proposed Defiant TT.II, cannon armed.

Simon
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on April 29, 2016, 01:35:45 pm
For the 1WGB I'm going to build the Mk.I and Mk.II.

Tentative back story is that the Battle of Britain is going a little worse than real-world; a few different decisions, a few more bombs finding their targets.  Churchill orders work to begin on several proposed "Emergency Fighters".  One of those is the Boulton Paul P.94, a single seat development of the Defiant that has already flown.  It promises similar performance to Spitfire and Hurricane and is relatively quick to produce due to the Defiant already being in service.  This is the [insert name here] Mk.I

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/Boulton%20Paul%20Defiant%20P94%2001.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/Boulton%20Paul%20Defiant%20P94%2001.jpg.html)

The screw tightens ever more and the RAF are getting desperate for aircraft.  The Defiant is not living up to expectations, so a further decision is made to convert existing Defiants and those on the production line to single seaters with minimum changes.  Instructions are sent to maintenance depots and work progresses quickly.  This is the [insert name here] Mk.II. 
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/Aircraft/Boulton%20Paul%20Defiant%20P94%2002.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/Aircraft/Boulton%20Paul%20Defiant%20P94%2002.jpg.html)

(The backwards marks reflects what happened with the Target Tugs that won't exist in my version of events, the Defiant Mk.II was in service and conversions were desginated TT Mk.I, the improved TT.II never happened as Defiant Mk.I's were seen as sufficient which became the T.III).

These and other changes help pull Britain through the dark days of the Battle of Britain.  The [insert name here] is developed further throughout the war.

Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Old Wombat on April 30, 2016, 03:05:43 am
Sorry, "Defender"'s been taken. ;D

The Boulton-Paul/Westland NF.2 Defender Mk IV.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq311/GPlachy/Defender/IMG_0496-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Cobra on April 30, 2016, 03:19:09 am
Very Cool! how about Calling the P.94 "Protector"? think that would work for a Name? Dan
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: zenrat on April 30, 2016, 03:51:44 am
Dauntless or Lionheart?
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: NARSES2 on April 30, 2016, 06:16:48 am
Always found the P.94 an attractive design. Looking forward to this
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on April 30, 2016, 07:06:35 am
A few coats of paint on the inside bits this morning, I should hopefully have both fuselages together this evening.

Sorry, "Defender"'s been taken. ;D

Nice, and Dizzy did a Reliant so that's gone too.  Keeping the '-iant' theme, Valiant is a possibility, with a Deep Space 9 connection to boot. :thumbsup:

Very Cool! how about Calling the P.94 "Protector"? think that would work for a Name? Dan

Protector, hmm, maybe.

Dauntless or Lionheart?

Dauntless was taken in timeframe the P.94 flew.  Lionheart's an interesting one, like that.

Always found the P.94 an attractive design. Looking forward to this

Me too.  My fascination with it dates back to the early days when I started on this forum, I wondered why the Defiant had never been considered without a turret and somebody enlightened me.  These are the two kits I picked up in Huddersfield.  I'd been waiting patiently to do this project for years, hoping Airfix would update their kit, only to stick them in the stash when they did.  I hadn't even considered them until a few days ago (sorry Bungle!) and they whispered to me from across the stash....
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: The Wooksta! on April 30, 2016, 08:16:07 am
The real snag is that you're probably better off with the OLD Airfix kit, as the rear fuselage bulges out for the turret and thus any single seater is very draggy.  The old kit doesn't have these issues - slim fuselage, amongst it's other shortcomings - and better for conversion work.
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on April 30, 2016, 12:19:27 pm
Trouble is it's much more effort to correct the old kits problems than to slim the hips on the new one.  What I plan to do is shore it up on the inside then sand the bejesus out of it.  Fortunately for me there's no detail in that area (should be a shed-load of rivets on the real thing).
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 01, 2016, 02:46:10 am
Didn't get the fuselage together but should have this done by the afternoon today.

As mentioned, I've added styrene sheets to the inside so I can sand back the bulge to get the slimmer rear fuselage for the production Mk.I Valiant (name might change again).  The check pattern is to encourage the styrene to conform to the shape of the fuselage, the first layer was thinner sheet to help with this.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4328.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4328.jpg.html)

As emergency conversions based on the prototype P.94, I don't need to do this for the Mk.II as the bulge will be retained.
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: zenrat on May 01, 2016, 03:38:42 am
Dauntless or Lionheart?

Dauntless was taken in timeframe the P.94 flew.

The Defiant and the Dauntless were contemporarys so if Boulton Paul had been considering Dauntless alongside Defiant right from the beginning...
However, you've made your decision.
Personally i'd call it the Boulton Paul Deviant.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 01, 2016, 06:27:58 am
Dauntless or Lionheart?

Dauntless was taken in timeframe the P.94 flew.

The Defiant and the Dauntless were contemporarys so if Boulton Paul had been considering Dauntless alongside Defiant right from the beginning...
However, you've made your decision.
Personally i'd call it the Boulton Paul Deviant.  :wacko:


Don't worry, Lionheart will get a mention.  As I go along, I'll give it different names to see how it feels, I'll give most suggestions a try. It's just Dauntless doesn't fit into my backstory.
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 02, 2016, 01:13:57 am
Cockpit together on the Lionheart Mk.II. ;)  Close up photos make it look worse, but you can hardly see anything when they're together and I probably didn't need to spend as much time on them.  I'm a little behind as we had visitors yesterday so I didn't get finished until the wee-hours.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4334.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4334.jpg.html)

One buttoned up, both are together now.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Mossie105/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4332.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Mossie105/media/1%20Week%20Group%20Build%202016/IMG_4332.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Captain Canada on May 02, 2016, 02:12:16 pm
Love it. Great work so far !

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Old Wombat on May 02, 2016, 10:35:27 pm
Prior to the mid-1920's Boulton Paul used names starting with "B" for their military aircraft.

After the mid-1920's it was a pretty mixed bag, so Lionheart fits. :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see how she turns out! ;D
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Geoff on May 03, 2016, 01:39:15 am
This may be a stupid question - but.

Was there ever a proposal to give a turret equipped Defiant wing guns as well? I was initially thinking an under wing mount similar to the Me-109s Kannonenboot set up?
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 03, 2016, 03:20:48 am
A little behind again, out with the family for May Day.  Filled the gap on both of them with balsa and created a spine for the Mk.I.  I'll get some Milliput on the Mk.I and do the Mk.II's spine this evening.

Love it. Great work so far !

 :cheers:

Cheers Cap! :ph34r:

Prior to the mid-1920's Boulton Paul used names starting with "B" for their military aircraft.

After the mid-1920's it was a pretty mixed bag, so Lionheart fits. :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see how she turns out! ;D

They did, they also used a few 'P' names and then as you mention it all got a little fuzzy.  I looked at 'B' and 'P' words and brainstormed a few, this is what I came up with:

Brazen, Blazer, Broadsword, Perseus, Prometheus, Bulldog (half forgot about the Bristol Bulldog so that's out), Bloodhound, Brave, Pegasus, Pursuit/Pursuer  (most of them RN ships names, good source of inspiration for fighters).

This may be a stupid question - but.

Was there ever a proposal to give a turret equipped Defiant wing guns as well? I was initially thinking an under wing mount similar to the Me-109s Kannonenboot set up?

Not a daft question Geoff, there was the P.96 study on a developed Defiant powered by a Sabre or Centaurus.  They studied several armament permutations, including mixes of turret with fixed guns.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e68/GTwiner/F111/Escanear0010.jpg)
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Geoff on May 03, 2016, 03:35:58 am
Thank you
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: NARSES2 on May 03, 2016, 07:42:45 am
Broadsword  :thumbsup:

Centaurus P.96D is very nice
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 03, 2016, 08:16:41 am
I've wondered about building it but the fuselage would need a lot of fattening, Sabre powered version might be easier.  There was also a 2x cannon turret proposed that would look good with one of the bigger engines.
Title: Re: Defiant Uno.....
Post by: Mossie on May 03, 2016, 03:00:17 pm
Currently slapping Milliput on the Protector Mk.I.  It's only slight happy to adhere to the balsa spine, which is strange as it's not the first time I've done it and it's been fine before.

I think I'm going to have to concentrate on one as I keep slipping from where I expect to be.  It'll be the Mk.I as it's the one I'm furthest along with.  It's one of the busiest weeks of the year at work and I've been working late to get these done, don't think I can keep up that pace.

Had a slight problem earlier, before I went to work; I did a little work on the spine and offered the canopy up to it to check fit, I must have dropped it without looking as when I got home I found it on the rug squashed flat.  Fortunately Airfix give you a ton of canopy options so I'll just borrow it from the other kit.
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Mossie on May 05, 2016, 01:11:02 pm
I'm not going to get it done, real life has reared it's ugly head.  Work is very busy, on top of that I've picked up a bug and daughter 1B has just got it and I have to take a day off work tomorrow.

I plan to carry it on when I'm feeling more awake and seeing if I can finish at least one of them within 10 days of modelling, rather than 10 consecutive days.
Title: Re: Defiant Duo
Post by: Captain Canada on May 10, 2016, 10:26:08 am
Thanks for the profiles, those do look good !

 :cheers: