What if

Picture Post => Current and Finished Projects => Aircraft => Topic started by: Gondor on February 11, 2017, 05:09:11 pm

Title: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on February 11, 2017, 05:09:11 pm
Way back in the mists of time, or October 2014 to be exact, I started a thread called A Little Rhinoplasty (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,39452.msg653045.html#msg653045). I had at the time considered building a follow on aircraft along the same development lines as the real F-4M had within the RAF, namely developing from a mud mover to an interceptor and gaining the fin top RWR's at the same time.

This thread follows my turning that idea into plastic.

So you get the general idea. The same type of build as A Little Rhinoplasty (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,39452.msg653045.html#msg653045) but this time using just Fujimi and Hasegawa parts which let me convert a Hasegawa F-4E into an F-4C/D airframe at the same time for another RAF Squadron (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,43363.msg757771.html#new)

Anyway, on with some pictures

Here are the fuselage sections of both the Fujimi and Hasegawa kits with the Fujimi kit parts on the left and the Hasegawa parts on the right

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4213/35006096053_beb13904fe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VknoLe)

Here they are in closer detail. First the Fujimi part

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4213/35775438336_167b6544c5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wvmtqm)

And not the Hasegawa part.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4205/35775438536_947021418e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WvmttN)

The detail at the front or nose end of the undercarriage bay has to be copied from the Hasegawa kit to the Fujimi kit rather than swapping the parts as that would involve a lot more work to make each part fit the other kit and then to replace any detail lost.

Some work has already started though. Part of the under nose gun area has already been removed from the Hasegawa kit in preparation for adding to this build.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/36194913206_dcb9016cd3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X9qoFG)

More later

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 13, 2017, 10:26:58 am
So far only mental modelling has been going on with this build, that's trying to work out easy ways to do things.

Well I have managed to do that. In the third picture above I showed what I need to make to add to the nose wheel bay. I'm glad to say that modifying some "L" shaped plastic rod to the correct angles and hight etc should work. It means there is no need to try and butt joint small pieces of plastic cart together to create the shape.

So guess what I am spending this evening doing  :rolleyes:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 14, 2017, 11:11:41 am
Realised that I need a little help with this build. I would like a drawing of the strengthening/reinforcement plate used on the F-4M in its later years. I have a picture which although reasonably clear does not give me detail enough to create what I need. Can anyone help?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4232/35775440676_d537a6c27f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wvmu7G)

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 14, 2017, 04:20:18 pm
Problem solved after talking to TsrJoe. He found a website that actually sells the things in 1/48 and 1/32 and is American  :rolleyes:  not surprising considering the scales they supply it in.

Anyhow, drawings and placement diagrams were taken from their site so I now have the drawings to work from for the necessary parts.  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on March 20, 2017, 07:37:09 am
I'm modelling in a more haphazard way these days so have not done much to this build for a while. Today however I have started work on the strengthening plates for the Phantom as shown previously. Below is a picture I managed to find on the internet of the main plate at a very useful angle.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4263/35775440186_bde51a3341_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WvmtYf)

As you can see, the plate is not that thick so using 60thou card is not an option. I decided to go with 10thou card which if it is too thin can always be removed and replaced with thicker card.

Methodology for this part of the build is to have scaled down the pattern for the plates to 1/72 scale, cut them out from the paper and use PVA glue to attach them to the 10thou plastic card. Once dry the templates will be cur out and stuck onto the model prior to soaking off the paper template as the 10thou card is way too thin for me to try removing the paper from without damaging the plastic card.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4208/35775438006_63d9c4a4f3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WvmtjE)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/35775437756_22c28e9c87_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wvmtfm)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4212/35775437166_7536890c39_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wvmt5b)

The pictures for the first stages of the process are just above, hope to make some more progress later today.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2017, 10:08:43 am
Oh dear, I was underneath XT864, which was '007' when it was with 892 NAS aboard the Ark, last Thursday. I could have taken some detailed pics.  :banghead:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on March 20, 2017, 11:13:43 am
Oh dear, I was underneath XT864, which was '007' when it was with 892 NAS aboard the Ark, last Thursday. I could have taken some detailed pics.  :banghead:

Kit, this was a modification to extend the life or certain airframes so there is no guarantee that the same modification would have been present on XT864

Also found out that the size I was using was a little under-scale  :banghead: :banghead:

Back to the scanner/photocopier then  :banghead: :banghead:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Captain Canada on March 20, 2017, 11:27:03 am
Things you never knew ! What was the site you guys are talking about ?

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on March 20, 2017, 12:35:38 pm
Things you never knew ! What was the site you guys are talking about ?

 :thumbsup:

This is the site

http://nautilusmodels.com/

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Captain Canada on March 20, 2017, 12:59:42 pm
Thanks !

Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on March 20, 2017, 03:49:32 pm
Well a little playing around with a different picture resulted in better results.

The picture below is as close to 1/72 as I could get it, so if anyone wants to use it.....

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/36235782415_9918fefbb6.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xd2RFe)

As you can see from this picture, the strengthening plate matches far better in outline to the drawing when laid on the model so I am going to try this shape with appropriate cuts into pieces where the inner wing pylons are.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4312/36235783695_d111908b55_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xd2S4i)

One thing this has shown up during this, is that the location of the inner wing pylons on the Fujimi kit do not match the drawings that the strengthening plate is drawn against. The kit has the thick rib in the main undercarriage bay, and the corresponding and in-line locating holes for the inner wing pylons in a slightly more inboard position that the drawing. Kind of makes you wonder who got it right or if they are both wrong?

A couple of additional notes about the pictures. The top one has a black additional plate used by US Navy aircraft, probably something to do with launch stresses I would guess. In the lower picture and in a previous post, the locating points for the catapult strops are white, that's because they come from a different kit as I was originally going to build this model as a real world F-4K and the only spare non naval parts I had were a different colour.

Tomorrow I intend to change this from paper to paper and plastic, and from there onto the model by mid week.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on March 20, 2017, 05:21:09 pm
Were only some RAF and FAA Phantoms fitted with those plates Alastair, or did the USN and USAF birds use them too?

I checked my pics of the Ulster Phantom and all three of them are looking directly along the wing, naturally.  :banghead:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on March 21, 2017, 03:40:22 am
As far as I know these plates were not fitted to Royal Navy machines. Apparently the strengthening plates were fitted to USN and USAF aircraft, S, E and probably G airframes from what I have read. Selected, probably low hour airframes in the UK were probably fitted if the airframe was likely to be used and as far as I know the K was phased out of service and replaced with M's. US aircraft also had plates fitted to the sides of the intakes as well, I am not going to add any as the K/M had a different intake so I am thinking I can get away with not adding them.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on July 30, 2017, 02:04:14 am
As an addition or rather a realisation I had to do with this build, which I still intend to finish at some point, I started thinking about the armament for this and another version of this build.
So does anyone have a good link to a site to do with the Sky Flash air-to-air missile and does anyone know if there is much of a difference between that missile and the Sparrow that the RAF used on it's Phantoms.
This build and the other builds I have either done or intend to do of this aircraft throughout its life will involve it using as much a variation of armament and camouflage on the one airframe throughout its life. A Little Rhinoplasty (http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,39452.msg653045.html#msg653045) depicts XV462 at the start of it's RAF career with 17 Squadron (true), then it moved to 19 Squadron at Wildenrath and had the tactical Red/Blue roundels and RWR fin-top added at some point (true), it finished its days with 19 Squadron in the Air Defence Grey scheme but I intend to model with this build it having moved on to 11 Squadron and also receiving the strengthening strap under the wing as well as the Air Defence Grey scheme. This scheme definitely calls for the use of Sky Flash missiles as the main armament and hopefully the correct version of sidewinders as well.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Thorvic on July 30, 2017, 08:30:15 am
As far as I know these plates were not fitted to Royal Navy machines. Apparently the strengthening plates were fitted to USN and USAF aircraft, S, E and probably G airframes from what I have read. Selected, probably low hour airframes in the UK were probably fitted if the airframe was likely to be used and as far as I know the K was phased out of service and replaced with M's. US aircraft also had plates fitted to the sides of the intakes as well, I am not going to add any as the K/M had a different intake so I am thinking I can get away with not adding them.

Gondor

The K's were not phased out before the Ms, as being Ks they had served virtually exclusively in the AD role, and the Carrier aircraft were not flown fully loaded as they had a limited bring back. the M wings were goosed because the RAF used them low down in the air support role until the Jaguars replaced them and they switched to ADV in RAFG and back in England. It was flying low down with the thick air with full bombs and rockets pods that over stressed the wings.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on August 13, 2017, 03:36:03 pm
I have been reviewing my work so far on this build with a view to starting this build up again. I have put the parts of the lit supplied ejection seats together which I will not have to do a large amount of work to because there will be a crew sitting in them so they will hide most of the detail  :thumbsup:
A question I asked elsewhere about Skyflash air-to-air missiles is actually redundant for this build as the picture below shows an aircraft carrying a pair of dummy missiles and I intend to copy the picture saying that its a very good Photoshop of XV462 as they managed to edit out the M61 installation  ;D

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4232/35775440676_d537a6c27f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wvmu7G)

I also realised from the picture that the air relief doors? on the underside of the aircraft were open and the wing/lower fuselage what was in the box had those doors shut. Fortunately another build of XV462 had the correctly modelled doors and will be depicted on the ground so simply swapping parts between box's is not a problem.

To help depict XV462 in the pose depicted above I decided it would be best to mount the aircraft on some acrylic rod and I happen to have some spare which might be usable. The exhausts with the separate petals was found to have slightly too small an exhaust ring for the acrylic rod so I checked the older more basic Fujimi exhaust, with the spokes, and found that to be a good match and I have no problem in cutting up a pair of exhausts like that!

Gondor

 
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on September 10, 2017, 11:11:11 am
So while I have not done much with this build for a while and being in a modelling mood I decided to get a bit more done with this build.

After a bit of a panic trying to find the under nose areas partly because it had been so long since I put them to one side for some work on them I got on with what I had planed.

To start with, take a Hasegawa F-4E and a Fujimi F-4M and swap parts over, but you know that part. The fun bit is adding the extra parts at the front of the nose undercarriage bay. So a couple of "U" shaped channels to start with.....

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4371/36750468990_ee05bf73b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XZvL4G)

Modify slightly after thinning one side which I decided would be the bottom of the "U"

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4410/36959126066_9b3d473449_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXbxu)

Apply a little glue and stick in place...... easy  ;D

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4411/36959125246_2ebf593cf7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXbim)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4348/36959124526_6d0b3360e6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXb5W)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/36959123816_cd142457f0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXaSG)

Of course the first one was nice and simple. The second one was a waste as I copied the first one. The thinned side is higher at the front of the aircraft than it is at it's rear, it is also angled towards the centre line as you move away from the front so very easy to get wrong and after the second failed attempt to produce an opposite handed part to compliment the first one I drew what I needed in pencil onto the "U" section plastic and shaded the waste. The result is this....

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4430/36959123206_1355d08980_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXaGb)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4393/36959122536_12be9fff79_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YiXauC)

Not perfect but they will do  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on September 10, 2017, 02:43:11 pm
I realised later that I needed to do the same to another Fujimi F-4M so the "extra" one I made earlier by mistake didn't go to waste.  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 11, 2018, 02:32:57 pm
Well quite some time since I posted on this thread but its time to add to it anyway.

Starting to get my modelling Mojo back and with the release of the new Airfix Phantom a chance to update and improve how I model some of this build, probably going to make it more technically challenging as well.

The first of my new Airfix Phantoms will be made as an early machine parked on the flight line so there were several parts that would be spare and just happen to fit the idea of using the strengthening modification to the underside of the airframe.

So the idea is this.....

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4699/39500390184_19e193aea3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/23bvPQ5)

Not all of the airfix parts will be used. I intend to keep the main undercarriage bays and covers including the area between them and the strengthening strip as per the Fujimi kit. The same goes for the areas outboard of the flaps and ailerons as well. Quite a bit of cutting and feteling will be carried out but I think it will improve the look of the build. Just don't hold your breath on progress though.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 12, 2018, 02:48:26 pm
So a little bit more work today, but that's what you get for lots of interests and watching X-Files. I have simply marked out where I will cut prior to trimming back the edges so everything fits.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4758/38420939180_3339b419ec_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21x8mDS)

Hope it makes sense from this picture. The leading edge of the wings will be glued to the upper wing prior to getting everything put in place, but lets see how that goes. Cutting will probably commence on Wednesday.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 14, 2018, 11:47:28 am
Well that went reasonably well. Plastic has been cut so there is no going back with this build, not without a lot of hidden supports and filler to hide the joins and gaps. Saying that, that will probably happen anyway  :banghead:

The proof is in the pudding as they say, especially when it's Xmass pud with brandy  ;D

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4649/40224091812_c4be548374_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hsZ7m)

Ok, all I have done is cut the Fujimi parts up and trimmed the Airfix parts a little, however I am being cautious with my cutting as although it's plastic and easy to add pieces together, it's not always the best option as surface detail can get lost which is the issue here.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty and a Bottom enhancement ! Pt2
Post by: Thorvic on February 14, 2018, 10:25:00 pm
Interesting solution should look quite tasty when all back together  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: zenrat on February 15, 2018, 12:08:02 am
Did you sit back, look at the parts and have one of those "oh no, what have I done" moments?

IME that usually means you are onto something good (usually).
 ;D
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty and a Bottom enhancement ! Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 15, 2018, 03:08:11 am
Interesting solution should look quite tasty when all back together  :thumbsup:

I thought it might be easier than scratch building the strengthening plates. Sort of why do that fiddly work when Airfix has done it for me

Did you sit back, look at the parts and have one of those "oh no, what have I done" moments?

IME that usually means you are onto something good (usually).
 ;D

I had misgivings before I started cutting up the plastic, we will just have to see if they were justified or not over the weekend.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: zenrat on February 15, 2018, 03:37:55 am
Nah, she'll be right mate.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 17, 2018, 12:14:22 pm
A small amount of progress at the moment, hoping to do more over the rest of the weekend

One set of doors in place

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4672/39425811575_eae15449d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/234VAcZ)

Make that two sets of doors in place  :lol:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4757/38514484520_ab317d4480_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21FoNqy)

I had decided that it would be far easier this way as the doors could help keep everything in place due to the Airfix part coming very close in some places to the doors. Some superglue later when I am happy on how the doors are sitting, just the add strength and rigidity.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 18, 2018, 08:12:41 am
After some fetteling I have the airfix part fitted to the Fujimi underside.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4748/40339874291_7f839a6797_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24sGpcZ)

And from the messy side

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4673/40339865651_13903f215b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24sGmD2)

I just realized that I don't know if the Airfix part is longer than the bit I have cut out of the fujimi wing, if so it should not be much trouble to remove the Airfix part and cut back the Fujimi part  :-\

I have noticed that the chord of the aileron is longer on the Airfix kit than on the Fujimi one, this will not pose a problem, I will simply have to add a filler peice to close the gap.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 18, 2018, 03:07:12 pm
The fuselage is now buttoned up, or rather the fuselage half's are glued together with the cockpit tub between them. Next I intend to work on the crew and the seats that they will be sitting in. The seats are made up but I need to make sure the crew will fit and that I can get the instrument panels in as well. I also have to make sure that I have a good methos for displaying the aircraft in it's display pose which may take more working out than doing.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Weaver on February 18, 2018, 06:09:07 pm
Re Skyflash vs Sparrow, as far as I know the airframes were identical, but the markings and surface features wern't. Skyflash had four long, black rectangles on the forebody which were flush aerials for it's proximity fuse. Earlier Sparrows didn't have these at all, and on the AIM-7M, which came after Skyflash, they were much thinner. Skyflash missiles on Phantom squadrons had large black or dark blue circles on the wings to ensure that they couldn't be confused with Sparrows.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on February 18, 2018, 10:59:31 pm

 Skyflash missiles on Phantom squadrons had large black or dark blue circles on the wings to ensure that they couldn't be confused with Sparrows.


With some extra imagination they could have painted roundels there instead.  ;D
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: zenrat on February 18, 2018, 11:52:40 pm
After some fetteling I have the airfix part fitted to the Fujimi underside.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4748/40339874291_7f839a6797_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24sGpcZ)

And from the messy side

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4673/40339865651_13903f215b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24sGmD2)

I just realized that I don't know if the Airfix part is longer than the bit I have cut out of the fujimi wing, if so it should not be much trouble to remove the Airfix part and cut back the Fujimi part  :-\

I have noticed that the chord of the aileron is longer on the Airfix kit than on the Fujimi one, this will not pose a problem, I will simply have to add a filler peice to close the gap.

Gondor

Your messy side is neater than the good side on many of my kitbashes before i get them PSRed.
Looks very good.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on February 21, 2018, 02:50:32 pm
Hardly anything done over the last couple of days. A lot has been decided though and parts organized to those decisions. As I am using the Airfix wing underside I have decided to use the pylons and tanks from the Airfix kit so the locating holes match up. This is not a problem as I intend to model one of the two Airfix kits with folded wing tips and only the centre line tank under it.

 Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 26, 2019, 10:09:18 am
I'm still doing odd's and end's on this build.

Although the following picture looks very much like one of those above I have actually managed to get some of the wing parts trimmed so they fit better.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7902/46832497142_a0f12b970e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2emqMMh)

Hopefully I will manage to get the rest of the wings glued together, I may in fact attach what I have to the fuselage first.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 26, 2019, 11:17:54 am
Does anyone remember this kit?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4904/46160102934_60e872b712_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2dk1ApG)

Well the one that is in my stash as a parts donor just donated a couple of parts to this build

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4896/46885094161_4153f65542_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2er5n3r)[

The lack of detail is not all that relevant as the doors will be in the closed position and simply need to hide the hole that is the undercarriage bay.

So now that's both types of Airfix F-4 Phantom being incorporated into the build.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: NARSES2 on January 27, 2019, 05:47:02 am
Does anyone remember this kit?


Yup and I probably built it back in the day  ;)
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 27, 2019, 06:13:40 am
Does anyone remember this kit?


Yup and I probably built it back in the day  ;)

When I had it I tried to follow a conversion article in the old, small squarish Airfix Magazine if I remember correctly, of how to convert an F-4J into an F-4M which I tried to apply to the Airfix kit. I was quite happy with the outcome even if all I really did was make the Spay exhausts out of a cereal packet or something similar. The kit is long gone but not the memory.

Just realized that I can pinch another part from the modern Airfix F-K/M, the telescope used by the back seater will not be used on either of my F-4K's so one will be fitted into this build too  :thumbsup:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: NARSES2 on January 27, 2019, 06:16:34 am
Yup I've some fond memories of conversions I did based on articles from that old Airfix mag. My favourite was making a Pz III from the Airfix Stug III and Panther kits, based on a Chris Ellis ? article.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 27, 2019, 08:23:58 am
Yup I've some fond memories of conversions I did based on articles from that old Airfix mag. My favourite was making a Pz III from the Airfix Stug III and Panther kits, based on a Chris Ellis ? article.

That sounds right. There were also epic builds on "The Charge of the Light Brigade" and Mulburry Harbour spring to mind

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: NARSES2 on January 28, 2019, 07:14:21 am
I remember the Charge of the Light Brigade builds but not the Mulberry one.

I've still got a lot of my old Airfix Mags in storage (I have this weird thing about not destroying the printed word *) might try and dig them out.

* Newspapers and t.v. listings mags don't count.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: JayBee on January 28, 2019, 07:25:31 am
Does anyone remember this kit?

Yes indeed with it's rather dodgy shaped lower rea fuselage aft of the engines and the section between the front and rear canopies which should have small windows but were in reality solid plastic.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: JayBee on January 28, 2019, 07:27:20 am
Yup I've some fond memories of conversions I did based on articles from that old Airfix mag. My favourite was making a Pz III from the Airfix Stug III and Panther kits, based on a Chris Ellis ? article.

The one I remember most doing was a Hawker Hector from the Hawker Hart kit.  :wub:
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on January 28, 2019, 07:48:24 am
Yup I've some fond memories of conversions I did based on articles from that old Airfix mag. My favourite was making a Pz III from the Airfix Stug III and Panther kits, based on a Chris Ellis ? article.

The one I remember most doing was a Hawker Hector from the Hawker Hart kit.  :wub:


I did the Scout to Wasp conversion featured in the mag, and a right pain it was too. Somewhere I still have most of it.  :banghead:

Alan Hall's method required you to have FOUR Hudsons to provide their tail wheel struts and four more of something else to provide the wheels!  :o He was OK, he worked for Airfix at the time!

I used a Caravelle for the wheels and made the forks from 10 thou styrene..............
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 28, 2019, 02:02:53 pm
Found a slight problem but also came up with a way to fix it   ;D

The underside of the forward fuselage. Note that the calipers are measuring the width of the fillet behind where the intake ramps go. 23.0mm

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4876/33034635138_9903c4a436_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ska97N)

So lets compare that measurement against one for the constructed fuselage.... oh dear! it measures 22.0mm

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7866/33034634888_320a70f952_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ska93u)

That's one whole millimeter difference  :blink:

No matter. A plan is at hand! Let's start by measuring something  :lol:  this time the inside of the fuselage where it's a little bit narrower than we would like.....

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7826/33034634758_56114fc835_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ska91f)

19.6mm is the distance. So lets add one millimeter which is the difference we found earlier and add that to our last measurement and we get 20.6mm that the inside gap needs to be!

Easy enough to cut a length of sprue/tree/runner to the right length and then fit it in place  ;D

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 28, 2019, 02:21:40 pm
Well that was a blond and/or senior moment. I decided to perform a test fit of the parts only to find that Fujimi had already done something to stop the fuselage sides from being too close together. There are a couple of reasonably large pins on the lower forward fuselage part which fit nicely inside the fuselage halfs and helping to keep them the correct distance apart.
So I went to all that trouble for nothing  :banghead: :banghead:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Scotaidh on January 29, 2019, 01:47:14 am
Well that was a blond and/or senior moment. I decided to perform a test fit of the parts only to find that Fujimi had already done something to stop ghe fuselage sides from being too close together. There are a couple of reasonably large pins on the lower forward fuselage part which fit nicely inside the fuselage halfs and helping to keep them the correct distance apart.
So I went to all that trouble for nothing  :banghead: :banghead:

Gondor

Don't feel bad, Gondor - I've never known model companies be too concerned about fit.  They almost seem to see it as an additional challenge to their customers.  ;)  And, think - if they hadn't done it, you'd have needed to do it.  Also, did you enjoy doing the measuring, as part of the build process?  If you did, then who cares?  Think of it as skill exercising - practice.  :)
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 29, 2019, 02:23:27 am

Don't feel bad, Gondor - I've never known model companies be too concerned about fit.  They almost seem to see it as an additional challenge to their customers.  ;)  And, think - if they hadn't done it, you'd have needed to do it.  Also, did you enjoy doing the measuring, as part of the build process?  If you did, then who cares?  Think of it as skill exercising - practice.  :)


I can do quite a bit of measuring at work unfortunately

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Thorvic on January 29, 2019, 04:25:55 am
Try the fit with the wing if possible as the fujimi fuselage does need bracing to get a good tight fit with the wing upper surfaces.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on January 29, 2019, 02:45:20 pm
Try the fit with the wing if possible as the fujimi fuselage does need bracing to get a good tight fit with the wing upper surfaces.

Thanks for reminding me. I still have to add the upper wing surface to the lower wing as I still have to decide what I am doing with the leading edges I have the possibility of using parts from the latest Airfix F-4 or the Fujimi kit parts which are separate at the moment and still with part of the lower wing that has been replaced by the Airfix strengthened rib part. I will get around to it some time fairly soon.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on September 13, 2021, 05:45:27 am
So some two and a half years later......

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51463728527_1fd9929727_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mpF4wg)

I decided to get on with this build. The wing tips are added and there are gaps everywhere, 99% of which I already knew about due to repeatedly dry fitting the parts and deciding that I would leave it alone and putting the parts back again.
The angles are wrong all over the place between all the various pieces but most of this will be hidden with further construction. A lot of the missmatching where the outer wing panels meet the rest of the wing will be hidden by the under wing tanks, nice design feature Airfix, so that's a big help. Now I just need to trim the leading edge parts to fit..... just he says  :rolleyes: :-\

Thinking further ahead I have crew to modify and fit into the cockpit. The GIB, Guy In Back, needs something to do so I thought he should hold a placard or something. What should it say though ? I could go with the usual "I'm with stupid!" and an arrow pointing towards the Pilot or even "Hi mum!", suggestions are certainly welcome. Orientation of the placard is also something to consider. The aircraft will be in a near vertical climb so that is to be taken into consideration as well which has just given me the idea of the placard saying "Down with Gravity" and it will be upside down  ;D. Unless someone else comes up with a better idea.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 13, 2021, 09:25:30 am
How about 'Where are we?'  ;D
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Pellson on September 13, 2021, 10:08:54 am
“He just went ballistic”

Arrow pointing at Pilot.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on September 13, 2021, 11:02:26 am
This is going to be a bit of a curate's egg, there are gaps everywhere  :banghead:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51466832556_0ce3b8d14f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mpWYf1)

Oh well, that's what filler was made for  :-\

By the way, the sign the GIB will be holding is in 1/72 so it has to be short, concise and easy to read at a distance. The people who will usually see the sign will be those of you who are sitting behind the table at any show it is at.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: PR19_Kit on September 13, 2021, 11:03:43 am
OK, how about 'HELP!'   ;D
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: scooter on September 13, 2021, 11:14:31 am
Four special characters in a row...aka grawlix (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grawlix)
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on September 13, 2021, 11:59:56 am
OK, how about 'HELP!'   ;D

Oh I do like that  ;D

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on October 03, 2021, 09:02:16 am
Decided to add a couple of builds that have my interest at the moment. Some of this is a bit of a copy cat build as OGL has done an Airfix FG.1 with Red tops instead of Sidewinders, mine however will also have Air Darts fitted and as one of the kit options, the Naval Air Support Unit although I will give it a slightly different serial number so it's not OOP.
I have a second Airfix F-4 in the works too, an FGR.2 which I intent to also have Red Tops but also armed with Sparrows and the SUU-23. This will be an early machine in the markings of 43 Squadron just to mess things up a bit.

Pictures I hear you cry!!

Not much to see as I have been trying to stick tiny little bits together. I have started on the Air Darts which were a real proposal. I had bought some Sea Darts several years ago but never got around to doing anything until now.

First I removed the larger fins as they were too small and in the wrong place for an Air Dart. I wasn't happy with the result though, I felt as if the body had been damaged when I removed the mountings the fins had been on with the result that to me the fuselage of the missile "undulated". A replacement was necessary

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525150955_d42f166e70_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mv6SgD)

Brass tube was decided upon, and the nose section removed from the resin missile and added to the tube. A square of plastic card was added to the rear and cut to shape.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51524948954_38a05667d0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mv5QdS)

Parts for the fins were fabricated

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51529549775_1e6565da37_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mvupTn)

Rather than great big chunky section that were used under the old fins I decided that to keep in scale something more "refined" would be needed. Out with the plastic strip, 0.040 x 0.010" with each fin to be mounted on a section then each section will be mounted onto the body.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51537236979_0e06340c35_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwaP2n)

That's as far as the missiles have got The tail fins will be made from 0.030 x 0.10" mainly to give the end some surface area to adhere to the end of the missile body.

I had decided to give the cockpit of the Airfix F-4's a bit more substance than just using the decals would do, so I have been trying to get tiny bit's of Eduard etch in place

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51545883376_09ef22faf4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwW8ib)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51546611544_2c8c96906e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwZRKN)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51546611509_d12f871872_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwZRKc)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51545883451_3e2bbece82_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwW8jt)

Not too bad considering that I was not using any magnification to help with the placement and I was using Superglue as the adhesive, maybe epoxy next time. Anyway, the rest of the parts from the etch

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51545883396_6508181f50_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mwW8iw)

Most of the remaining parts will probably be staying on the sheet but a few will be going into the tub once I have glued that into the right hand side of the fuselage.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: NARSES2 on October 04, 2021, 06:24:32 am
Looking good

When I use Eduard half of the bits, at least, tend to stay on the sheet, but the seat belts are good especially with an open canopy. Instrument panels can be a bit fiddly at times and I prefer Yahu if they do them for the kit as there's no assembly required.
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on October 04, 2021, 08:03:57 am
What is impressing me is the quality of the pictures which I took with my phone!  :o

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: NARSES2 on October 05, 2021, 06:17:27 am
What is impressing me is the quality of the pictures which I took with my phone!  :o

Gondor

Indeed, I can't seem to get the focus right with mine. It looks alright on screen but when I download them it's blurred. Seeing these I obviously need to experiment
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2
Post by: Gondor on October 05, 2021, 06:26:51 am
What is impressing me is the quality of the pictures which I took with my phone!  :o

Gondor

Indeed, I can't seem to get the focus right with mine. It looks alright on screen but when I download them it's blurred. Seeing these I obviously need to experiment

New phone bought on the never, never with three improvements over my old one, It connects with my car's sat nav and dash cam effortlessly compared to the previous phone, internal storage if far larger and it has a great camera and focusing system. The first I am not going to be using for a while by the look of things though.

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: NARSES2 on October 06, 2021, 06:11:53 am
Must admit my phone is about due for an upgrade
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Captain Canada on October 06, 2021, 03:19:28 pm
When we used to calibrate our calipers with the Russian engineers they'd always shout from the truck " beeeeg reeeng ! " so now I find myself shouting, in that accent, " biiiiiig Wiiiing ! " lol. Looks great, and that's alot of work !

Cheers
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on October 31, 2021, 11:18:31 am
Bought some Zap Canopy Glue "Formula 560" so I have time to more parts around a bit when using etch, also usful for canopies and the like. Started using it this afternoon as I eventually had some spare time to do some modelling. Rather happy other than loseing one of the rudde3r pedals for the FGR.2. Eventually found it but I am getting a little frustrated with not being able to see or cleanly cut parts from the etch fret  :banghead:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on October 31, 2021, 02:36:22 pm
So the work so far on the etch for the FGR.2 is like this...

Front IP

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51644217477_94fb4d679c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mFC7AH)

Rear IP

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51644217467_5a0ba327b4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mFC7Ax)

And the 'Pit

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51645895015_9fcb240d3e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mFLHgM)

Looks like I need to remove the front lower right panel and then refit it at a better angle. At least its not superglue this time so should be doable. Still work to get done but at least I have done something, even if that was losing one of the rudder pedals and then finding it again!

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on October 31, 2021, 02:45:30 pm
Dang it!!  :banghead: :banghead:

When using the x10 magnification of the phone's camera to check the realignment of the front outer right panel, I notice the oposite one is a bit out as well!!  :banghead: :banghead:

Tomorrow!! It was almost 11PM but the clocks changed so it's almsot 10pm so I am calling that it for the night

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on November 01, 2021, 12:35:38 pm
Much happier with my adjustments

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51646753882_55d1df6edd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mFR7zQ)

Yes I did notice that the outer left panel was a little squint in the picture, I went back and gave it a slight nudge into place as the glue has some time before it sets.

Might have another go at the Master M61 cannons I have at the weekend, lots of etch and getting them straight will be fun  :rolleyes:

Gondor
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Wardukw-NZ on November 01, 2021, 05:26:55 pm
Now thats a nice looking instrument panel matey..screw the rest of the model  just stick with that  :thumbsup: :rolleyes:  :lol:
Im enjoying this build alot  ;)
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: zenrat on November 02, 2021, 04:28:47 am
Ah, Gondor has a pair of those really big tweezers...
 ;)
Title: Re: A Little Rhinoplasty Pt2 Pluss other F-4 whiffs
Post by: Gondor on November 02, 2021, 06:35:56 am
Ah, Gondor has a pair of those really big tweezers...
 ;)

They always seem too big to pick up some of the etch. I'm just surprised how well the main I.P. looks as it's two sheets, one with holes on top of the actual instruments!

Gondor